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The Olympic and Racing issues could’ve been completely separate one-shot promotionals on their own instead of disrupting the pacing as they did. It’s shit like that which kept us from getting a bigger idea of things, because goddamn things were getting good before they were lost.

Sure we still wouldn’t have gotten to the end anyway, but we sure as hell would’ve been close enough that Ian could quickly tell us how it was supposed to end before being barred from the Lost Hedgehog Tales.

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Eggman threatening to conquer Danica Patrick's world is hilarious because that's just the real world. There isn't like a Nascar universe or something.

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On 3/31/2022 at 5:45 PM, thumbs13 said:

Eggman threatening to conquer Danica Patrick's world is hilarious because that's just the real world. There isn't like a Nascar universe or something.

"I'll tarnish every racing victory you've ever had" kinda weak compared to the others. 

Anyway I enjoy these 2 issues for what they are. They're fun and harmless. 

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Sonic Universe - Issue #46: Chaotix Quest - Part 1 of 4: Picking Up the Trail!

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We’ve finally hit upon the last, regular, 4-issue Sonic Universe arc of the pre-reboot. After that will be SU #50. Boy howdy. I sure hope the Chaotix getting a 4-issue Sonic Universe arc at the end of a Sonic comic continuity isn’t some sort of trend. That would be freaky. 

By this point in my comic reading life I had actually joined the Sonic Stadium and would post infrequent comments on it. Looking back through the thread, it’s astonishing to me the kinds of things that people would spend pages arguing about for no reason. It shouldn’t be but it is. I remember when the solicits for this cover were revealed, my reaction was of extreme hype and excitement simply because Vector, Charmy, and Espio were on the cover. 

When I relayed this to the people on the SEGA Forums, the response I got was a bunch of pseudo intellectual talk about why I shouldn’t be excited and I tried to play it off by repeating “But it’s Vector, Charmy, and Espio… on a cover…!” to let them know I was trying to be light-hearted and jokey in response. Doing that just got more “intellectual” posts about why I should temper my expectations and about what the philosophy behind their standing in the book is and blah blah blah. The point is, you couldn’t be light-hearted or makes jokes on that site. Everyone took fucking everything seriously and nothing annoys me more than having to explain an obvious joke.

I was excited for this one. I had hoped it’d be an arc about the Chaotix and the covers gave me hope that it would be. However, I came out of this arc being really upset and disappointed. This was during my time of really disliking Mighty so finding out that the arc was actually just about Mighty stung a whole lot. I also don’t recall the Chaotix themselves mattering a whole lot on their own and being really annoyed by the Find the Computer Room meme. 

However, I like Mighty more now and as stated before, the usual way I read the comics back then was to let the dialogue pass me by without REALLY absorbing it. I don’t recall what was actually going on, why they needed to fight Lord Hood, or the situation with Mighty’s sister was because it was stuff I didn’t care about. 

Well, I care now. Will I like Chaotix Quest upon revisit?

God, I hope so.

Spoiler

Writer: Ian Flynn
Pencils: Tracy Yardley!
Inks: Jim Amash
Letters: Jack Morelli
Colors: Matt Herms
Cover: Yardley and Downer
Assistant Editor: Vincent Lovallo
Editor: Paul Kaminski
Editor-In-Chief: Vincent Gorelick

Technically the title of this story is “All for One” because, when you open the book, you see a subtitle that says “All for One, Part One: Picking Up the Trail”.

It’s that thing again where, despite Sonic Universe stories having a perfectly serviceable title on the front cover, they, for some reason, feel the need to have a subtitle attached to it and a sub-sub title for each individual part. Not all of them have done this and I thought the process of doing this had actually stopped a while back. Why they’re doing this again is flabbergasting.

So technically the title should be: Chaotix Quest - Part 1 of 4: All for One, Part One: Picking Up the Trail. Then part two would be called Chaotix Quest - Part 2 of 4: All for One, Part Two: Ongoing Investigation!!

But no. Fuck that. These stories don’t need two main titles. Nix the “All for One” part and just call it Chaotix Quest. Fucking no one calls this story “All for One”. No one!

Anyway, the premise here is that Mighty and Ray’s letters have stopped coming and the three Chaotix from the games went out on a journey to find them. Saffron isn’t here because she isn’t one of the modern Chaotix from the games and thus would look weird on a cover that feels it best to advertise the modern Chaotix… I thought.

Then I remembered “Wait no. Saffron is a Penders character. Of course she isn’t here…”

In the story proper all it does is remind me that Charmy’s 16-year-old brain has been damaged and he’s here without one of his caretakers… his girlfriend. Which is really weird and awkward to say and think about still. I seriously couldn’t believe that shit they pulled in Issue #212 where they brought it up just to say that they’re not going to tell him anything and even added in a slightly uncomfortable joke into the mix. Interestingly enough, combing through the past pages of this thread saw a lot of you speechless by that moment as well. 

Charmy’s situation is just super awkward. It needed some sort of resolution.

The issue actually begins with Vector roughing up some of the Eggman army of Mercia. Espio is fighting as well but his priority is keeping the promise he made to keep Charmy safe.

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Literally anytime Charmy does something a child would do, even sticking their tongue out like that, it just unnerves me. I hate feeling like this.

Charmy, thankfully, does have more moments of lucid seriousness here though. He flies up and tries to let his teammates know that there are some very Gigantor looking robots stomping their way towards them. He wishes for the other Chaotix to be here to help. 

Cynical me wants to shout at him that they ARE the only Chaotix but in the construction of this book, yeah, there are more I guess. 

Not to worry though. It’s time for the obligatory moment where the cavalry arrives to show off their character designs as this area’s Freedom Fighter team. 

Say hello again to Rob O’ the–uhm I mean BOW the… Sparrow…!

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Oh yeah, and he’s got friends too I guess.

I remember the Quail that kept going “And a hey nonny nonny” though.

Also, what’s with men of peace coming out onto the open battlefield like this? That Emu guy was the same way and he ended up contributing nothing (on purpose) so it feels a little strange to see another of his type show up again. Maybe this guy actually does stuff?

Friar Buck’s smile is way too smug looking too. 

Anyway, these are our teammates for this adventure. If you couldn’t tell by the “expert archer” title and the familiar cadence, this headlining arrow boy was (probably) originally supposed to be Rob O’ the Hedge. It can’t be him now for the reasons I outlined back in the Olympics issue of course. The Pendering was already underway and there was nothing that could stop it now. 

Now, it’s not quite hit levels of extreme badness here just yet. After all, Rob is still mentioned by name. After the battle against the huge robots comes to a quick and decisive finish, Bow imparts the knowledge onto them about how he became substitute Rob.

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In other words, Rob, Mari Ann, and their children have been put on a bus to Fresno. 

Or, based on what Bow says here, they might all just be dead. 

They then ask about Mighty and Ray and are met with very sad looks. After being taken to the Deepwood Forest Hideaway, we’re given a rundown of what happened on both sides. Espio tells them the reason Mighty and Ray left and then Charmy says that the letters they kept getting eventually stopped and the warp ring came back on its own. Vector says that their last letter said they were coming to Mercia. Apparently this is where Mighty was born. I had forgotten. Mighty’s past is a little scattershot in my mind. It doesn’t feel like it’s been told to me in sequential order for some reason.

Bow and Alan start to sing and explain the story to them but Thorn the Lop Lady says that they should probably explain it.

So they do. It’s a tale of Mighty’s horrible past, exile, and his ever forgiving nature.

Of course Mighty wouldn’t take revenge on someone who had nothing to do with his misfortune. It makes no sense. I was probably really irked by the part about Mighty just having a much easier time with the robots then my boys.

What really catches my eye now is the image of the former king. It’s… something.

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If Amy and Rob are cousins that means she’s related to this dude. Right? 

Oh well. It’s not something I care that much about.

The king’s design is… kind of ridiculous, I’ll admit. The teal Sonic head with the facial hair on top of that really broad looking body throws me off rather fiercely. Something’s off about it. Are we sure he’s not just three hedgehogs in a trench coat?

Friar Buck says that he managed to keep all the records he could hidden away where they were recovered so Mighty could look through them. His sister was at an orphanage before she was roboticized five years before the current timeline.

So yeah. Eggman roboticized the orphans too. Good to know.

For some reason, Vector gets upset at Espio when he sees him deducing what could have happened to her and asks why he doesn’t already know all this since he’s a super ninja spy. Espio says being a spy doesn’t equate to “Do Anything” magic.

Then Charmy says it should before going all hyper on me out of nowhere.

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The writing of the gang felt off when I was reading it for the first time. Vector is fine for the most part. However, Charmy felt a little inconsistent at first. He’s calm and serious one moment and then here, all of sudden, it’s like they remembered he’s supposed to act like he’s six so he’s making WHOOSH sounds and shouting disconnected phrases like his game counterpart. 

Then there’s Espio who seems a little too solemn for my tastes. Just a tad. He’s the straight man of the group but oddly enough, in the games, he doesn’t really come off as though he’s out of sync with the other two. It’s a very strange balancing act but it’s part of why they work so well in my opinion.

As the story continues, they hear of how Mighty and Ray helped to fight against the fires Eggman was starting and the invading army that came their way. The plan was to have Mighty and Ray infiltrate the taken over castle but the attack that happened saw that plan going awry. Bow wished to send Mighty and Ray into the castle to access the Egg Net so they could find out what they wanted to know but of course Mighty refused to just let a village get attacked and burned down for the sake of his own personal quest.

As Alan Quail sings in merriment about the tale that happened, he’s joined by Charmy in a round of “And a hey nonny nonny” before the tale continues and everyone except Espio, Thorn and Munch Rat are singing.

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It’s very cute. Stuff like this did help to make me remember these guys a bit more than the usual Freedom Fighter teams as it were.

Also, it’s nice to know that Friar Buck uses traps and isn’t completely useless. It’s appreciated that there’s at least a proposed non-aggressive and non-violent way he can help out. 

In the recapped story, Bow keeps insisting that Mighty take this chance to go seize what he wants at the castle. Mighty keeps trying to refuse but Bow lays it on that they can handle themselves and that Mighty has someone he needs to go rescue, love, and protect.

This finally convinces him and the two rush off to do what was asked of them. The story ends with another “And a hey nonny nonny” and Vector wiping a tear from his eye at the selflessness of his boys. The big softie.

Unfortunately, Bow suspects he may have inadvertently led them into a trap if their warp ring just ended up back with the Chaotix and they haven’t heard from them in days. Espio says that if they were in trouble then why not use the warp ring to escape instead of sending it back and deduces that something else is going on here. Very good point that I didn’t think of.

So, they decide that they’re going to need to invade the castle taken over by the Grandmaster of this region, Lord Hood, to obtain what they wish to obtain. Not only that, but loads of people have been captured by the asshole and they were already planning a rescue before the Chaotix arrived. They were just short on people.

I guess the three of them is enough to make a sneak attack and rescue plan viable now though. I can buy that. After all, these three are *insert whatever the Chaotix are in this continuity* you want on your side.

So at night, they all take to sneaking into the castle by knocking out some guards and making their way to the secret passage that Lord Hood, despite having taken the castle over, still hasn’t managed to discover… they think.

Meanwhile, Lord Mordred Hood, is trying to hypnotize some poor fucker trapped in stocks into telling him where Hideaway is. He’s told “In Deepwood Forest” and Lord Hood reacts by shouting “THIS WHOLE BLASTED COUNTRY IS COVERED IN THE FOREST!” which is pretty funny.

We’re then shown a legionized duck person showing up to tell Lord Hood that the heroes are here. His reaction is to go “Finally!” 

That’s never good.

Yeah, apparently the reason he left the inner passage to the heart of the castle alone wasn’t because he hadn’t discovered it. It was so he could set a trap.

Clever boy.

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The design of snake characters in this series always gets the brain going. You look at Mordred Hood here or even someone like Lyric and you notice how attaching robot parts to them helps to make them function more as active participants in battle and can help them get more accustomed to a typical Sonic-type design. However, it’s also fun looking at them and wondering if they’d just be some really long tube if you took the robot bits away.

This first issue wasn’t bad. It wasn’t particularly exciting in any way of course. It was an issue of pretty much nothing but exposition and explanations. We got the backstory of how Mighty knows these characters and the set-up for the mystery of what indeed could have happened to him. The issue of course has to rely on the characters and the way they interact to sell itself to us and it does that relatively well. Granted, part of that might just be my desire to see the Chaotix interacting at all but it works well enough for what it is.

I’m super lukewarm on the arc so far though. When you have an issue that’s nothing but talking about stuff that isn’t all THAT interesting in the grand scheme of things it tends to feel a bit by the numbers. Not bad by any means, just a little tedious. I found myself desiring the meat and potatoes to come a lot quicker than they were by the end of this one.

 

Sonic Universe - Issue #47: Chaotix Quest - Part 2 of 4: Ongoing Investigation!!

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Considering the history behind this cover’s existence, there is a part of me that wants to call this a “Basic Bitch” cover but that wouldn’t really be fair considering it actually does look quite nice all things considered. It’s not as pleasing to the eye as the original cover they were going to use (more on that later) but it really does impress me that Tracy, Amash, and Downer could pump out a second one that has just as much talent and skill behind it on what I assume had to be a surprise to them at the time. Especially when it comes to that there kunai knife.

That said, the off-center “In the Dungeon of Lord Hood” bugs the shit out of me. I know it’s only off-center so that it isn’t overlapping Charmy or the shadow of the titular Lord Hood but I pose that it was unnecessary to have this placard here at all. I mean, there’s already a “World’s Collide in 4” covering his shadow. In the book a cereal bar code covers more of it. Other than that, the way Vector’s nose is lined up against the curves of Lord Hood’s shadow is neat.

Spoiler

Original Cover

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This is, however, the better cover. It’s better looking in every way. The dynamic posing looks cooler. The orange hue of Vector’s torch makes the lighting look better and because we can see the light source, it helps make the shadows on the characters less distracting. 

OH and also Rob is on the cover! I guess they couldn’t just re-do this with Bow the Sparrow either. That probably would have been in bad taste. As someone who liked Rob, this does kind of sting a bit. It really doesn’t even feel like I got to give the guy a proper goodbye. It didn’t even cross my mind when I was reviewing Hedgehog Havoc that that’d be the last I’d see of him and his lovely wife. 

It’ll always be incredibly charming how this guy ended up marrying one of those echidnas and having children with her. Something about that hedgehog to echidna marital to eventual familial love really does get the heart good. Poor guys.

If it hasn’t sunk in yet, we’re even DEEPER into the shit then we were before with the Olympics issue. Hey, at least in the first issue of this arc Rob’s name was said. With how petty Penders is I’m shocked he didn’t try to pull some shit. Yes, the dude is that petty. I have the Twitter posts to prove it but I doubt I need to convince you all.

Let’s see what Rob’s final adventure likely would have been. Pour one out for the guy.

Writer: Ian Flynn
Pencils: Tracy Yardley!
Letters: Jack Morelli
Colors: Matt Herms
Cover: Yardley, Amash, and Downer
Assistant Editor: Vincent Lovallo
Editor: Paul Kaminski
Editor-in-Chief: Victor Gorelick

Good news everyone! We know where Mighty is now! The mystery is solved!

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Mighty is hanging with the Sand Blasters. Awesome.

So anyway, we cut back to the Chaotix group who are on a mission to find out where Mighty is. 

That page might have been best served to show up towards the end maybe? Who knows. I guess it depends on what’s on that computer. Perhaps more info that isn’t just what we’re shown here will make it more viable to have this opening page show this off. After all, we know there’s gotta be more to this. Just look at those shadowy eyes. 

The Chaotix are wading through the water when they get separated by some bars in the nasty looking underground waterway of the castle. Vector… for some reason can’t lift the bars and finds himself wishing Knuckles and Mighty were here to do it for him? Oh geez. 

I know Vector’s naturally not going to be as strong as Knuckles. I mean, Vector is a big burly, strong looking guy and Knuckles is a small dude with very skinny arms… but Knuckles is called Knuckles and is more of a main character than Vector so of course he’s stronger. Mighty though? I dunno. I guess he’s stronger because his name is Mighty. Dude just tossed a tank two pages earlier…

…Granted, I’ve no reason to assume Vector can’t also do that but maybe he can’t in the Archie book? He seemed pretty on par with the other power characters in Heroes but, then again, this isn’t Game Vector so…

Look at me. Trying to rationalize why I shouldn’t be upset by this. I’m such a Modern Chaotix fanboy.

Anyway, Charmy gets a cool moment here. He’s too freaking small for these bars so he literally just slips through and releases them.

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It’s cute and it’s nice that this small stature is being put to some good use. I appreciate it. 

He flies off to go and find other switches. He manages to succeed too. Espio, however, figures out from this immediately that Lord Hood knows they’re here. He also finds it weird that the enemy would use cage-traps instead of death traps if they’re aware of their presence. 

So then Espio suddenly starts taking the reins with plans and detective skills and junk. I mean, hey, it’s nice that he’s good at detectiving now all of a sudden but isn’t this Vector’s bit? What the hell?

Yeah, Espio just figures all this out and then, on top of that, is the one who comes up with the follow-up plan. He tells Vector to give Bow the Warp Ring and begin preparations for the prison break. All Vector has to say is that this new plan better be good and not another attempt from him to run off with the bad guys again???

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I mean I guess the Iron Dominion thing would still be fresh in his mind? I suppose? How long ago was that at this point in our real time? I guess it doesn’t matter. It’s weird to think of Vector being suspicious of Espio like this though.

Vector’s also not been showing off how he could be of use himself yet either. First he can’t lift some bars and now the bit where he shows himself off as both a boss and as a detective just aren’t there. I’m not saying Espio can’t also do this too. I’ve honestly always been of the opinion that all three of them should have “eureka” moments like this every once in a while but for Vector to contribute nothing in the three areas where you’d turn to him the most?

It’s a different Vector though. Stuff like this does often remind me of that even though the designs scream Modern Chaotix. Their origins are so radically different. Vector isn’t a detective so he might not also be the smartest or the plan maker in this book either. 

I still don’t buy him not being close to what Knuckles and Mighty can do, even if he’s weaker than them. That’s probably my bias but I don’t think it is, honestly. Especially after seeing what Big can do in this book.

The group splits up from here. Vector says the “Find the Computer Room” line three times. Count ‘em, three whole times. The last time he says it, Espio calls him out on it and gets pissed off. Him saying this line isn’t funny in any of the moments he says it, including the moment where the meme was created. 

I cannot stand Vector’s voice from that era and life is forever duller for its existence. Not the voice actor of course. Just the voice that they gave my boy.

The Freedom Fighter group manages to free the prisoners, including a crudely drawn Yakko from Animaniacs. When Friar Buck relays the info that the Chaotix’s friends nor the king, queen, and their children are here Bow gets so frustrated he breaks character.

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This is quite the interesting tidbit to throw in for a character that I’m pretty sure wasn’t originally planned to even be in this story.

Or, if he was, someone else within this group probably wasn’t around to make space for Rob. I’d imaging the Lop Lady might not have been around. She hasn’t done much and her personality is pretty non existent. That’s me making up stories to explain why things are the way they are though. Please ignore the last paragraph of shit I just wrote.

The point is, Bow might be from Mobius New Jersey and he’s putting on a fake accent. Wonder why? 

I don’t think we ever find out.

In a shocking twist, despite how many times Vector said it, Charmy is the one who finds the computer room. He also points out that there were hench-mooks there but he took care of them. 

I was about to make a remark about grown henchmen being beaten by a small child but then I remembered that what actually happened is that they were beaten by a small teenager with brain damage.

It’s not nearly as charming as I thought.

Espio gets on the computer to do some computer stuff and tells Vector and Charmy to seal the doors. There is no door though. It’s just an open stone entryway so Vector’s plan is to just beat them up.

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I think I may have actually said “fuck you” out loud when the password turned out to be “password”. There’s being losers and then there’s that.

Espio finds out that Lord Hood has kicked the door in of the prison area and is about to lay waste to the Freedom Fighters trying to rescue the prisoners there. Bow shoots an arrow at him that Mordred dodges… but it had TNT at the end of it so it explodes and sends him flying back.

One of the bad guys grabs a ring and tosses it to Lord Hood but Thorn gets in the way and catches it on her spear as a rock falls on Hood’s head instead. Really clowning this guy aren’t we?

Then the one moment with Alan that I remember happens.

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It’s still pretty fun. Not gonna lie.

Lord Hood is dizzy from the explosion so his men start to try and carry them out but he refuses to lose to these chumps and stands up. He then uses his vertigo hypnosis attack to make them fall to their sha-na-na-na-na-na-Knees.

He almost looks cool but a good swift punch to the back of the head by Vector is enough to solve that problem.

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Charmy is telling a knocked out guard to do themselves a favor and stay down. It continues to be strange though. He gets a lot of cool lines but all that does is make the moments where he acts all childish seem like some sort of personality switch.

Anyway, this moment of Vector defeating Lord Hood is the only cool moment Vector has in this issue. I guess it’s the second half of the most important thing they had to do. He needed to be incapacitated so that everyone could be saved.

However, all the rest of the important stuff is left up to Espio who, not only finds the information on Matilda and where she is but also finds info on what happened to Rob (who throughout this entire issue ISN’T mentioned by name, instead referring to him only as the displaced king) but has also devised a plan to get them out of there.

So, yeah, Espio just IS everything in this issue. He’s not just the espionage, spy, ninja character who acts as the straight man and is good with computers here but he’s also the leader and the smartest one now. All Vector has is that he punch good.

There’s a scene where Espio, after he escapes the room, goes to the front gate while invisible to knock out some guards and opens the gate so the prisoners and his teammates can go into the courtyard in-between two sects of guards.

In this scene, Vector is freaking the fuck out because of how trapped they are. He has no clue what Espio’s plan is and isn’t able to figure it out at all.

It’s like witnessing that scene from the end of their story in Heroes but in reverse. Instead of Espio being shocked by what Vector’s saying and doing, it's the other way around. 

All I can think of is how the scene where Espio knocks the two guards out lacks impact.

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Sometimes Tracy has problems with stuff like this. Here’s another example of that. The only way I can tell what’s supposed to be happening here is thanks to context clues of course. The looks on their faces, the sound effect, and of course the fact that Espio is holding them this way so… what else would he be doing here? Making them kiss? Maybe…

But the fact that there’s ZERO impact here is still mind boggling. There isn’t even any wavy lines to suggest movement of any kind is happening. Their heads aren’t even fully connecting. The dog guy’s ear is like… lightly resting on the raised brow of the duck and that’s it.

Maybe they were in a hurry or something? I don’t know.

Anyway, Espio reveals that his plan was to trap the escapees and his teammates in-between two groups of villains and then use the warp ring to just escape. Lord Hood tries to chase after them but fails as Bow takes the time to gloat and say goodbye before leaving.

If that ring closed on him before he finished it would have been the funniest thing ever.

Anyway, once everyone is safe, Espio tells Bow all the info he learned about Rob and his family from the computer. Neither of these characters mention them by name of course.

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Do not worry folks. Rob did not die on his way back to his home planet. 

Maybe. 

You know it’s actually very unclear.

But they kind of have no choice but to be right now. There’s so much to tap dance around as far as an effective explanation for why Rob isn’t here. They need to explain it but also do it in a way that relieves him of guilt for not being here as well as make it 100% clear that he’s no coward and …yeesh. 

This is an unenviable position to be in. I do not envy the people who had to deal with this headache as it was happening.

Vector carries off a grandma and talks about wanting to throw a wild party in Mercia before they leave. Make of that what you will.

The next morning they use the warp ring to go directly to the Sand Blasters base of operations. Vector is, once again, being the least cautious one here and is electing to ignore Sonic’s info about how fucking mean and brutal they all are. 

That is until he almost gets shot at by Bugs Bunny and his band of Merry Melodies.

mjDGHNF4gmJJNAF9r3aIHQzZCKWXFOJ7X0Xwws6WttEPPGqDR0OqSKt2RNjKHv8GcSQhN4AkLrFPXHCxyUuNl6vVLeXb3_esdN_FDduZwXWchfCzTePWtwLJq3a31zETZsx75OyK

You look like a guy who’d beat it out of me even after I already told you. 

You know, I’m not sure I’m the best person to give a proper assessment of this particular issue. It felt really topsy turvey to me. I was so distracted by how strange and different the dynamic of the Chaotix were in this issue that I feel like judging it wouldn’t be fair. Everything they did felt really off to me in a way that I can only imagine felt similar way back when I initially read this arc and didn’t like it. Espio seemed more like the leader here. He does almost literally everything important as well as everything I usually associate with Vector from plan making to detectiving. Espio also does the stuff that Espio usually does too such as the espionage, and the straight-man-ing, and the computer stuff but he’s got SO much heaped onto him it feels really unbalanced.

Charmy, on the other hand, has a couple of cool moments and cool lines but their so weirdly juxtaposed with how he was behaving the literal issue before that it feels wrong. Charmy’s character has been so thoroughly destroyed that I don’t know what to make of his actions anymore. Who even is he supposed to be? 

It sucks because the Chaotix are my favorite characters. You’d think my bias would lead me to enjoying this arc but two issues in and it’s just not doing it for me. They’re so intensely different from the Chaotix I’m used to. There are flashes of the usual boys I love here but not enough. Couple that with the fact that the first issue was just an exposition dump and this second issue was a relatively simple prison break with a villain that got his ass crunched in two hits and you’ve got some super standard stuff. I’d be okay with that if the Chaotix felt right but they don’t.

Vector’s uselessness here is really what gets me. He punches out Lord Hood, which is good, but other than that he’s relegated to saying unflattering things about Espio going back to the bad guys, not being able to lift some bars, repeating the same unfunny Computer Room line THREE times, and then freaking out because he can’t figure out the very simple plan that Espio came up with to go to the courtyard and use the warp ring to escape. Why does Charmy look cooler than Vector here? Is it an attempt to channel how he was back when Penders was writing him? Weird time to try and channel that point in Vector’s standing in Archie. 


Sonic Universe - Issue #48: Chaotix Quest - Part 3 of 4: Deep Cover

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In case there were any doubts about the Looney Tunes references being intentional. Boy, Jack sure is a tall looking son of a bitch though. There’s not much to say about this cover. I guess I could harp about it technically being a mislead but spiritually what’s happening here is sort of accurate, kind of. It also looks really good and is colored really well too. I like it a lot. 

Spoiler

Writer: Ian Flynn
Pencils: Tracy Yardley!
Inks: Jim Amash
Colors: Matt Herms
Letters: Jack Morelli
Cover: Tracey Yardley! And Steve Downer
Assistant Editor: Vincent Lovallo
Editor: Paul Kaminski
Editor-in-Chief: Victor Gorelick

So the Chaotix are here in the desert surrounded by a Bugs Bunny, a Wil E. Coyote, a Road Runner, and two other characters literally named “Tex” and “Avery”. 

It’s beautiful.

Fighting happens.

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Everything is looking cool. The day is being won. Then Avery captures Charmy with a net gun and Shift uses his weird bear-trap invention to snag Espio. 

Then Jack points a gun at Vector’s head and tells him to give up. “You ain’t half bad. You ain’t half good either” is a pretty good line for him to say as he does this.

The next scene shows the Chaotix captured and being brought into their camp. It’s funny how Vector and Espio are in chains and Charmy’s just in a net.

Charmy also decides to be my audience surrogate for a bit.

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Poor Vector.

Although the image of Espio partying out late at night makes me giggle.

I really WANT to say Vector’s come a long way from being used as a means of making Julie-Su look good for the sake of Penders’ ego and the fake “I’m so good at woman empowerment” thing he likes to tout but… he really hasn’t.

I honestly still can’t recall Vector doing anything remarkable at all, even under Ian’s run so far. I can barely recall his actions in the Knuckles: The Return arc actually. I feel like he had to have been because he was talking to Barby about his father and they all hated him or something. It was supposed to be a set up for something we never got to, I guess? Maybe one day he’d have gotten to it for Vector and eventually (hopefully) would have finally fixed Charmy up? Who knows. 

I’m not surprised he keeps zeroing in on the Espio focus though. Espio is his favorite after all. I forgot to mention that he brought up Nicole last issue when he was on the computer, saying he wished she was there. I dunno. Call me crazy but after the Iron Dominion thing, focusing more on Espio with this weird Nicole relationship thing seems even sillier than ever. I’ll never understand what the thought process was there. Luckily, I don’t have to worry about it anymore because he’s officially had it with the shipping nonsense. 

Hurray.

Either way, as fans of all three of the Chaotix, Vector, Charmy, AND Espio, I wish the best for all of them as a unit. I was still hoping beyond hope that Vector and Charmy would get a turn for some development under Ian. Vector got flashes of something promised, Charmy was just straight up being ignored and left to stew in the uncomfortable muck of what was wrought for him, and Espio was given a ton of focus in the Iron Dominion and is now being forcefully shoved together with Nicole as a background side-story element. The attention is undoubtedly askew, leaning favorably towards one character over the other two but this problem definitely still had a chance to be mitigated.

However, this is the last arc with the Chaotix present within the pre-reboot. This was the last chance for that to happen and it was kind of spent with two issues of preamble to reach this point. One was about exposition concerning Mighty’s backstory and his whereabouts. The other was a fairly simple prison break story about finding his whereabouts. And now, they’re here and Mighty and Ray, called “Flex” and “Jitters” by Jack here are on the scene.

He tells them to come over and Vector nearly blows Mighty’s cover by calling him by his real name but Mighty clamps his fingers over Vector’s maw to keep it shut while speaking as though he’s now a jerk who buries people in the desert if they don’t fall in line.

He’s clamping his fingers down on Vector’s jaw so hard that there are visible veins hued in red showing up. It actually kind of disturbed me a bit.

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Mighty tells Jack that he’s going to keep them in line and Jack leaves him to it. Later, we’re shown them all in a room together. 
Mighty apologizes for being rough with Vector and Vector has to make like he barely felt it even though there’s a visible red mark on his face now. 

I TOTALLY see why this upset me when I was younger. I can’t illustrate to you just how big of a fan I am of Vector and how much I, at the time, despised Mighty for stealing his thunder. There’s admittedly still a bit of that left in me, especially seeing how underutilized and unimpressive Vector is in these books. I thought it was bad back when I didn’t have knowledge of how awful and annoying Vector was back when Penders was writing for him but now that I have that context it really does suck a whole lot more.

I do still lament how the pre-reboot had to be washed away but, at the same time, I love the post-reboot quite a whole lot for a number of reasons. The better utilization of the Chaotix was one of them. 

Thankfully, as of my re-reading, I do like Mighty more now so it isn’t so much a matter of wanting him done away with as it is just wishing Vector could be cool.

Charmy goes in for a hug and it’s adorable due to the childish way he exclaims his relief.

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… But again I keep remembering that he’s 16-years old here and it becomes weird again. Not that they can't still hug but the dialogue being the way that it is just... man.

Anyway, Mighty offers his explanation. It’s basically what we’ve already been told though. He went on the Egg Net, found out where his sister was, came here, joined the Sand Blasters under new aliases and… here they are. He can’t just waltz on up to Eggman’s doorstep so joining the local Freedom Fighters group was the next best thing.

Charmy then asks why he sent the ring back and Mighty says he couldn’t risk getting caught using it…

… Which confuses me. How does sending the ring back work exactly? I don’t recall seeing how that’s supposed to function. Is it somehow more covert than just using it normally? 

Well, whatever. I guess I’ll just have to assume that because an explanation isn’t coming. Vector asks in a sly, friendly-teasing manner as to why Mighty couldn’t just come over and explain. Or, at least, it looks like he’s teasing but Mighty reacts as though he’s offended.

I actually don’t know what to make of this page honestly. Maybe someone can help me out here because I didn’t get it back then and I kind of still don’t get it now.

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The way this is written, at least to me, came off as though Vector holding grudges against his mates here, specifically Espio for the Iron Dominion thing, has been some sort of underlying plot point that’s being addressed now instead of something that came the fuck out of nowhere last issue.

Also, Vector JUST found out about Mighty being with the Sand Blasters so Mighty being like “Or did you think I really joined the Sand Blasters?” thing feels off. Like, they showed up, got captured, and Vector showed relief and happiness at seeing Mighty and was acting all friendly towards him… then Mighty pinched his nose and started talking like a villain and then brought them here to tell them what was up. So, the only way Mighty could be upset with Vector thinking he’d joined the Sand Blasters was in THAT extremely short space of time where Mighty was pretending to actually be one of them. 

Then Mighty’s line of “Or like you do with–?” gets cut off. 

I assumed Mighty was about to talk about the group from Downunda with Barby and the others. However, Vector’s response is “That’s different! They chose their allegiances!” though which… doesn’t SOUND like he’s talking about the Downunda Freedom Fighters. 

So, he might be referring to the “Four Houses” people when he says they chose their allegiances… which would technically make more sense? Sort of? 

I wish that line Mighty had wasn’t cut off. It’d make figuring out what he was talking about more clearer. I can only assume this was more teasing at whatever was supposed to be Vector’s past because it doesn’t make sense to me otherwise.

Mighty’s response of “And I chose to leave” and Vector backing down because it somehow stumps him also confused me as a result of the earlier confusion.

The only grudge I know Vector held was the one against Espio from just an issue earlier where he brought it up randomly. The rest of what they’re talking about alludes me. Maybe that’s my fault? I honestly don’t know. I feel like I shouldn’t be this confused but I am.

I just… I don’t know what they’re talking about.

But it’s fine. Vector is happy to have Mighty back and Mighty is happy to be back. Ray comes stuttering onto the scene in fear of Mighty’s plan to surrender himself to the Baron. He just said he couldn’t waltz up to Eggman’s base but he’s going to do just that now that he knows the Baron is a good guy.

As Mighty leaves during the night to go do this, Ray actually starts crying, fearful that when Mighty recovers his sister he’ll drop him as his brother. Charmy spits out some wisdom for him.

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It’s cute. 

Also, I like Ray’s outfit here. I never mentioned it but that jacket he used to have on was a little odd. Ray as a character has been odd in fact. There’s so much that’s inconsistent about him but it does feel like with this arc they’re settling on something proper… right before it gets rebooted but it thankfully carries over from what I remember.

Anyway, Mighty shows up waving a white flag in front of the Baron’s base and attempts to surrender. The Baron doesn’t buy it because Mighty’s been tossing tanks around and shit and thinks this is just Jack being a bit of a looney tune.

So after a minor scrap with a tank, Mighty rips one of them open and asks the man inside to capture him.

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That’s Bunnie in the doorway, cloaked in shadow. There was no doubt this is where she ended up and the plan was definitely to have her legionized. We know this of course because after all this stuff was canceled we were shown what the redesign for her was going to be. 

I’m still not a fan of the plot point myself but I guess if one looks at it in a way of Bunnie coming to the realization that what she thought she wanted wasn’t what she wanted anymore and she actually preferred being part robot now I could see it maybe working from that angle. I haven’t been given a sufficient enough reason to buy that she DEFINITELY needed to do this of course. There’s plenty of characters in this book that can hold their own in fights without legionization and I still maintain she could have been one of them with some snazzy inventions. Rotor’s literally got a weird Scuba gear looking Iron Man suit despite his back being destroyed. Exploring how they could have made me accept it more might have been possible but that's not going to happen now.  

Anyway, the Baron wants to know what Mighty’s deal is and he says he’s a member of the Chaotix, which he describes as a “Freedom Fighters Group”.

I mean, yeah. I guess so. That actually makes the most sense for what they are. The book seriously tried to refer to them as detectives in this continuity once and that was pretty transparent as a means of just shoehorning the concept in there. No one EVER brought that up again though. 

It’s funny because I’m pretty sure this is the first time they’ve been referred to as a Freedom Fighters group too. How strange is that? The book is about to get ripped asunder and we’re just now saying they’re just another Freedom Fighters group. I guess in hindsight… what else COULD they be right?

Well, anyway, once the Baron hears that Mighty is Matilda’s brother he calls for her immediately. She shows up and the reunion is very… personal spacey.

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Throughout this part of the story Mighty has been wearing a very smug, confident smile on his face. It disappears for the rest of the issue after this point.

What happens here is extraordinarily tragic for all parties involved.

Matilda lays down what her life has been like according to her own memories. She says she has no family. She grew up in an orphanage. Robotnik fucking roboticized the children of that orphanage. Then the Bem thing happened and they stopped being robots. 

The Sand Blasters were left without Robians to fight but still wanted to be assholes to the people who became them by kicking them out for the “crime” of having once been a Robian. They had nowhere to go so they went back to Eggman and got legionized. The End.

It’s a very depressing story and Mighty does his best to try and push for that happy ending he probably envisioned anyway but Matilda blows him off with an extremely rough dismissal.

“You mean nothing to me.”

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It’ll never stop amazing me what time can do to a person. Not just in the story’s context but for me.

I don’t recall caring one iota about this back when I initially read it due to the aforementioned hatred. Reading this now actually got me misty eyed.

If I’m a sucker for anything it’s always sibling relationships. That’s always the number one way to my heart, more so than anything that has to do with parents it seems. I couldn’t tell you why those relationships get me specifically since I have great relations with my immediate family. I suppose it’s just the one I feel the luckiest to have with regards to my younger siblings.

The Baron has to keep up appearances so he puts Mighty in the brig and says they’ll do a prisoner exchange tomorrow with Jack so he can get away. He tells his men that none of the conversation that just happened “didn’t happen” and that Eggman doesn’t need to know about any of this.

Seeing Mighty get led to a cell so he can sit there alone and cry into his hands was …rough.

The next morning, Jack kicks the door in and demands to know where Flex is. He grabs Jitters by the scarf and demands to know where he is since he’s always around him. Espio, undeterred by the interruption, just tells him that Mighty went out by himself to take on the Baron in the hopes of killing him and if he lost then the three of them were an even trade.

Jack says that he doesn’t believe that they’d be an even trade for him but goes with the Chaotix to round up some of the Baron’s people that they’ve captured to do a proper prisoner exchange. They do this all the time so doing it again is no big deal... he says before deciding that, nah, actually, this time he’s just going to kill the guy.

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It seems Mighty has inspired the man in ways he never could have predicted. Considering what I recall of the last issue… I wonder how things will shake out from here. I have a feeling the finale is going to be the best part of this arc, easily.

So, this issue was certainly a step up from the previous two but I feel it only really is because of that scene with Mighty and Matilda. The rest of it… honestly, I don’t think much else happened. They meet up with Mighty finally and they have a conversation about stuff that was mostly already covered. We just got some more finite clarifications on some things. Then there were a few confusing bits for me. I think it was supposed to set up for some kind of character arc for Vector but I remain unsure. Other than that, there’s really nothing else to speak about.

I feel less angry about this arc than I did when I initially read it all those years ago but sadly, I feel as though this arc is going to remain one of the ones I have less fondness for. Too little that I find interesting is happening and the main draw of the arc for me, the Chaotix, are by far the least important thing about it. They came here to find Mighty and… they found him. And he’s doing alright. Honestly, the Baron being such a nice guy negated any reason to have them as back-up for his infiltration plan. I guess it depends on what they do next issue because if they contribute nothing to that finale then I’ll feel pretty vindicated about viewing this as an arc that isn’t about the Chaotix at all but used their image to advertise it like it was so they could feel more comfy about telling a story about Mighty and his sister.

I’ll give it this; the thing they actually care about, that being Mighty’s conflict, truly is the most interesting thing about this arc so far. It reared its head near the end of the third issue so that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement but there’s a spark of something here at least.

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Boy howdy. I sure hope the Chaotix getting a 4-issue Sonic Universe arc at the end of a Sonic comic continuity isn’t some sort of trend. That would be freaky. 

Aw, what are the chances of that? I mean the chances of that happening twice would be astronomical!

 

10 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Looking back through the thread, it’s astonishing to me the kinds of things that people would spend pages arguing about for no reason.

Clearly thats changed over the years. Anyway gonna go mention Shadow in the IDW thread and start a war.

 

15 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The issue actually begins with Vector roughing up some of the Eggman army of Mercia. Espio is fighting as well but his priority is keeping the promise he made to keep Charmy safe.

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Oh, boy the beginning of the obvious edits. Its less bad here but it is notable outside of some times where they forgot to edit it the Legion name is replaced by "Eggman's Army" or "Eggman's Goons" and they no longer have the hoods. 

 

18 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Cynical me wants to shout at him that they ARE the only Chaotix but in the construction of this book, yeah, there are more I guess. 

I mean...if the Knuckles Chaotix game is ever canonized it'll be true that they aren't the only ones. 

 

20 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

In other words, Rob, Mari Ann, and their children have been put on a bus to Fresno. 

Or, based on what Bow says here, they might all just be dead. 

I think the implication later (mixed with their appearance at the end of King Scourge) is that they're stuck on Little Planet. Why...IDK.

24 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

For some reason, Vector gets upset at Espio when he sees him deducing what could have happened to her

I mean...if you haven't figured out pre-reboot Archie Vector is an abrasive asshole by now I don't know what to tell ya man. /jk 

 

26 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

And a hey nonny nonny”

Get the feeling Ian likes Shakespeare? What do you think Agents Gil D. Stern and Rosaline Krantz from Mega Man?

 

29 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

After all, these three are *insert whatever the Chaotix are in this continuity* you want on your side.

I...guess Freedom Fighters? Though really Mercenaries is probably a little more accurate. 

 

32 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Original Cover

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I always wonder how far in development this was before the things went down. Like I wonder if Rob and Mari-An were originally in the last issue but got drawn over? The world may never know. 

 

36 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Look at me. Trying to rationalize why I shouldn’t be upset by this. I’m such a Modern Chaotix fanboy.

I gotta say this is fascinating as someone who likes the Chaotix just fine...but also kinda sees them as more or less the Aqua Teen Hunger Force of the Sonic Universe. I have genuinely never put that much thought into them and I think I now realize how I must sound to people when I talk about how much I hate pre-reboot Rouge. 

 

40 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The group splits up from here. Vector says the “Find the Computer Room” line three times. Count ‘em, three whole times. The last time he says it, Espio calls him out on it and gets pissed off. Him saying this line isn’t funny in any of the moments he says it, including the moment where the meme was created. 

To you its not. I'm a basic bitch and love it. Fight me.

 

42 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The point is, Bow might be from Mobius New Jersey and he’s putting on a fake accent. Wonder why? 

They explained that. He's talking like Rob to honor him.

 

46 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

That is until he almost gets shot at by Bugs Bunny and his band of Merry Melodies.

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Archie Vector talking about Sonic picking fights is kinda hilarious considering that's basically his defining character in these comics. I mean he isn't wrong but still.

 

49 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Charmy also decides to be my audience surrogate for a bit.

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Ok I do agree with you on finding it hard to find Charmy entertaining here (back in the day someone told me to ignore it which is...yeah) but this line always gets a good laugh out of me. 

 

52 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I’m not surprised he keeps zeroing in on the Espio focus though. Espio is his favorite after all. I forgot to mention that he brought up Nicole last issue when he was on the computer, saying he wished she was there. I dunno. Call me crazy but after the Iron Dominion thing, focusing more on Espio with this weird Nicole relationship thing seems even sillier than ever. I’ll never understand what the thought process was there. Luckily, I don’t have to worry about it anymore because he’s officially had it with the shipping nonsense. 

Interestingly I watched a Bumblekast from December a couple days ago and Ian said he was seriously trying to push this relationship for some reason and decided because there was a wider outcry for Shard and Nicole he decided to give the people what they wanted and start pushing it. Personally I think her and Sally are a way cuter couple. 

 

57 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The way this is written, at least to me, came off as though Vector holding grudges against his mates here, specifically Espio for the Iron Dominion thing, has been some sort of underlying plot point that’s being addressed now instead of something that came the fuck out of nowhere last issue.

Yeah thats it. Like I said earlier Vector in these comics is an abrasive asshole who jumps right into fights. He has literally always been this way in the comics continuity. 

 

59 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Then Mighty’s line of “Or like you do with–?” gets cut off. 

I assumed Mighty was about to talk about the group from Downunda with Barby and the others. However, Vector’s response is “That’s different! They chose their allegiances!” though which… doesn’t SOUND like he’s talking about the Downunda Freedom Fighters. 

Hes talking about Julie-Su dude. The conversation is about loyalties and he's always fighting with her about being in the Legion. Of course the Pendering was going on so he had to be interrupted.

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

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Oh Hai Bunnie. 

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I’m still not a fan of the plot point myself

Same. I kinda wish she like talked with Nicole about creating nanite robot parts. She could morph into them and stay organic. I guess that would have been too similar to Rotor but she doesn't need the tragedy dammit! ...I may be a little biased because Iike Bunnie so much.

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Hes talking about Julie-Su dude. The conversation is about loyalties and he's always fighting with her about being in the Legion. Of course the Pendering was going on so he had to be interrupted.

The conversation being about loyalties doesn't mean anything if the structure of the conversation doesn't provide me with any specific hints. I'm supposed to just know that he's talking about Julie-Su and not something else despite there being no line indicating what he's about to say. This is really stupid and annoying. I know they can't mention her by name so I'm not blaming them or anything but man that page was hard to follow. 

2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

They explained that. He's talking like Rob to honor him.

That's a simple thing to guess I suppose. I still can't find the part where they explain that. Just people pointing out that he's talking like him. 

For further clarification, the thing I was wondering is what his origin was if he doesn't actually speak this way. Not necessarily the literal fact that he's speaking like Rob.

2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

To you its not. I'm a basic bitch and love it. Fight me.

No. 😛

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3 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

That's a simple thing to guess I suppose. I still can't find the part where they explain that. Just people pointing out that he's talking like him.

For further clarification, the thing I was wondering is what his origin was if he doesn't actually speak this way. Not necessarily the literal fact that he's speaking like Rob.

"Yea, but he has long been away with his wife and child. We fear the worst, and I carry on the king's speech in his memory." Thats the full quote. It's said pretty explicitly that he's talking like Rob to honor him.

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5 hours ago, SBR2 said:

"Yea, but he has long been away with his wife and child. We fear the worst, and I carry on the king's speech in his memory." Thats the full quote. It's said pretty explicitly that he's talking like Rob to honor him.

Thank you for being condescending about it. I didn't need just the quote and a helpful explanation. No, I needed the extra bit at the end about how fucking stupid I am for not remembering or interpreting that line correctly. Thanks. Appreciated. 

Again though I was mostly just wondering if the fact that he didn't speak that way meant there was something about his origin that they might have been hinting at. That was the actual point. I apologize for looking into things that weren't there. I'll be sure to not be as interested in the characters next time.

I wonder if anyone wonders why I worry so much about getting things wrong now.

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To be fair, I didn't think he literally meant his accent when he said he took on the "king's speech" either. Instead, his.. philosophy?

I wonder why Ian added that little trait though. Was there still some hope the Pendering wasn't permanent and the continuity could be salvaged, or was it just so he wasn't completely a Rob-expy? 

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3 hours ago, Razule said:

To be fair, I didn't think he literally meant his accent when he said he took on the "king's speech" either. Instead, his.. philosophy?

I wonder why Ian added that little trait though. Was there still some hope the Pendering wasn't permanent and the continuity could be salvaged, or was it just so he wasn't completely a Rob-expy? 

I mean yeah. I thought that too. It's likely why I didn't refer back to it when I reviewed the second issue a day later. All of these new characters speak in a similar way. I don't feel like it's that out of line that when he said "king's speech" I took it as him talking about the rallying cry of freedom or something poetic like that and not LITERALLY, "I talk exactly like him now and I didn't before".  Also not helping was that it took me a bit to find the line again because a dialogue skim sometimes doesn't yield immediate results and my eyes kind of suck.

And yes, the thing you're asking about on the bottom is what I was wondering. Like, I thought it was interesting he was faking his accent amongst a bunch of other characters that also had old timey speak and wondered if they were doing a thing where he might have been from somewhere else or had more to him than what was being presented. Wondering that is still a viable thing to do because the fact remains that he doesn't actually talk that way.

So, yeah, I thought it was interesting that they'd bother to incorporate that into his character. It seemed like an intriguing thing to do. 

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9 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Thank you for being condescending about it. I didn't need just the quote and a helpful explanation. No, I needed the extra bit at the end about how fucking stupid I am for not remembering or interpreting that line correctly. Thanks. Appreciated. 

Again though I was mostly just wondering if the fact that he didn't speak that way meant there was something about his origin that they might have been hinting at. That was the actual point. I apologize for looking into things that weren't there. I'll be sure to not be as interested in the characters next time.

I wonder if anyone wonders why I worry so much about getting things wrong now.

Well now I feel like an asshole. I'm honestly sorry I don't really think about how what I say sounds. I didn’t think it was coming across as condescending but I have a really bad habit of not reading it well from other people or myself. I really didn't mean to sound like that and I feel genuinely bad that I came across that way. 

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46 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Well now I feel like an asshole. I'm honestly sorry I don't really think about how what I say sounds. I didn’t think it was coming across as condescending but I have a really bad habit of not reading it well from other people or myself. I really didn't mean to sound like that and I feel genuinely bad that I came across that way. 

I mean, it's whatever.  A good night sleep does the mind good.

When you can't find something or when you interpret a line differently from someone being told that it's explicit or obvious (without still being told where the line even was. I still had to go find it) it can have that affect. 

These are also interesting times for the book. Wondering what the intention behind some of the decisions is going to happen a lot more often. Especially next week because that's when Endangered Species finally begins. Likely, I'll interpret things incorrectly or get even more stuff wrong there too. It's going to be a really wild ride for a bit. 

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Lol, I never stop to be surprised at how much Americans worry about petty stuff like Charmy's situation. Amazing, really. 😂😂😂

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6 hours ago, SkyHorizon said:

Lol, I never stop to be surprised at how much Americans worry about petty stuff like Charmy's situation. Amazing, really. 😂😂😂

How so?

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Excuuuse me and my American sensibilities for thinking the brain damaged regressing teenager was uncomfortable to watch the few times he appeared.

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Maybe I’m just desensitized, but there’s been worse done in this franchise.

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19 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Maybe I’m just desensitized, but there’s been worse done in this franchise.

Of course. Still think that was a bad move on Ian's part though. But hey, it was 15 years ago, he was young, and that version of the character is thankfully gone forever. 

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12 hours ago, Razule said:

Excuuuse me and my American sensibilities for thinking the brain damaged regressing teenager was uncomfortable to watch the few times he appeared.

Don't worry: you're excused ;)

2 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Maybe I’m just desensitized, but there’s been worse done in this franchise.

Precisely my point. Under Pender's pen we got stuff like Geoffrey sexually assaulting the far much younger Sally and people complains about Charmy? Seriously? 😂😂😂

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Even if there was other crap before, it's was still quite a crappy plot point. I mean, I don't really hold much grudge to Flynn about that (it was a long ago, and we know that he also regret this whole plot point), but yeah, it wasn't really a good idea, to say the least. It's not because Penders did a lot of shitty things that we can't criticize Flynn for when he wasn't quite good.

 

It's IMO one of the stuff that show that Flynn have also "grown". There are a lot of stuff that he handles weeeell better than when he started. On that point, I think it's also because he is more sensible to all those things and stuff.

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The problem is it was a really fucked up way to make Charmy like the games and made it really hard to laugh at his antics.

Ian regretted it too and admits it was a really bad call.

"Penders did worse" isn't really a defense here.

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Tragically, yes. Ian really messed up here and it reminds me that not all the changes were good for the Archie characters.

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18 hours ago, Guergy said:

Tragically, yes. Ian really messed up here and it reminds me that not all the changes were good for the Archie characters.

Lol. Can someone explain me precisely why people are so bothered about having a retarded guy in the comics (that everyone treats precisely like everyone else, in addition)? What's next? Sonic will be forbidden from calling Eggman "chubby" because obese people could feel offended?

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2 hours ago, SkyHorizon said:

Lol. Can someone explain me precisely why people are so bothered about having a retarded guy in the comics (that everyone treats precisely like everyone else, in addition)? What's next? Sonic will be forbidden from calling Eggman "chubby" because obese people could feel offended?

Because the background behind it is uncomfortable—Charmy was a teenager who was lobotomized into the mind of a child. I mean, I can understand it, even if I don’t see it to that extent, but that’s basically what they’re trying to say.

Considering Eggman here is an absolute monster, calling him “chubby” is pretty mild on the list of insults he’s already received.

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3 hours ago, SkyHorizon said:

Lol. Can someone explain me precisely why people are so bothered about having a retarded guy in the comics (that everyone treats precisely like everyone else, in addition)? What's next? Sonic will be forbidden from calling Eggman "chubby" because obese people could feel offended?

Charmy is supposed to be a comedic character. It's funny when he's being hyperactive and annoying people because he's just a little kid. That doesn't really translate when you make him a lobotomized teenager. You can't have characters be annoyed by him or mad at him because it'll make them look like assholes. Instead of him being a wacky kid doing wacky kid things, his personality being the result of his mental disability makes that the joke, and that's uncomfortable.

There's nothing wrong with a mentally disabled character being in the comic, but people have become more sensitive to that being portrayed comedically in the past few decades. And.. I don't recall there being that many jokes about Eggman's weight in the games actually. Not from Sonic anyway. His name is "Eggman" because his body is shaped like an egg, and his brand is based around eggs, so I guess that's all one big fat joke?

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Yeah, you've seriously lost the plot or just plain haven't been paying any attention to any of the conversations if you think the issue is just that he's mentally disabled. That would be fine if that were it but the context behind this is extremely messed up. 

The change was done to give him the mind of a six-year-old. That already has some weird implications behind it but the fact of the matter, on top of that, is that we're supposed to be laughing at his antics here. He's supposed to be a comedic character at heart. You can't really put him on display like this and tell the audience to laugh at the mentally disabled kid putting on a show for them and expect it to feel quite right.

The joke isn't that he's a goofy kid doing goofy things. The joke is that he's got brain damage. Hilarious. 

The only reason the characters are treating him the same is because the narrative is trying to do it's best to ignore the awful mistake it made to make it feel less uncomfortable. Realistically, they honestly should be trying a lot harder to properly address this but the one time it gets brought up again they just say "Oh, he needs more time" and then drop it like the world's hottest potato. Ain't touching that with a six foot pole. 

It's really notable how, when the reboot happens, all of a sudden Charmy shows up a lot more frequently and does a lot more stuff despite that continuity being a lot shorter in comparison to the one before it. At first it was just a matter of Penders trying to write him out after ruining his life as hard as he could. Getting him almost killed by an LSD laced chili-dog, killing his best friend, forcing him to stay trapped in the political standing he didn't want to be a part of, having that kingdom and his family be killed off screen the instant he tries to be a part of it again, and then when the writers change hands a poorly thought out way to get him in line with the games had the opposite affect of piling on the tragedy by giving him brain damage and memory loss. All he has left is Saffron. Gee, I sure hope nothing happens that takes HER away too... 

It's really fucked up and it's super unnecessary. It wouldn't even be so bad if it were all given proper care and the plot line saw a hint of resolution or development but because the move to render him mentally disabled was so uncomfortable for Ian himself, he didn't do anything with him, thus ironically rendering the thing he did to make him more accessible the reason he became the least accessible character in the books. 

It's just a matter of it being handled badly. 

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