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Archie Sonic Main Discussion


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2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

-I can get your point, but to be frank, I'm completely understanding why Sonic's angry with Silver here.

I've already addressed Sonic's anger more in-depth back when he originally assaulted Silver and smashed his face against Antoine's hospital bed some time back. I didn't feel like going into it again but if it's necessary to expound upon it, I'll boil it down to saying that yes, I understand it as well. There's a whole host of reasons why I still don't like it. Some of it boils down to just how I personally prefer Sonic to be written, which I've also already admitted to. I also had my go against Silver at the same time back during that whole spiel where I talked about literally everything you're talking about now. I didn't have another go at him HERE because, as I've stated already, he's addressed the issues I've had with him and it wasn't currently the main focus of what he was doing now. That doesn't entirely excuse his earlier behavior of course but Sonic and Amy's reactions really were the bigger focus of this particular issue for me. 

It's hard summing up my feelings on this because they're ultimately rather complicated. I wrote so much about it before and I wrote so much more yet again. I don't have much of a desire to defend anyone in this situation really. I don't even LIKE that this situation was written this way. That includes for Silver. 

2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

-I mean...yeah. It's kind of a obvious mistake. The word traitor is really important here, because it literally means a person who betrays someone. As in you assume they're willingly going along with it. That they intentionally backstabbed you to tear you or others down. Hell, there's kind of a reason for them to assume that, given Geoffrey was a actual legit traitor, and caused the entire kingdom to be driven under Naugus' rule. You might see it as a word difference, but it's a pretty clear and important distinction between someone who has legitimately betrayed and is willingly acting to destroy their friends, or someone who has been forcefully captured and is forced to act against their will to harm the people they care about. I wouldn't really neccessarily call the second one a betrayal, or say they're traitorous.

Hell, if we need the clear example of why that distinction is importantly - let's bring up Mecha Madness and the fact that everyone was accusing Sonic of being a traitor to the kingdom because he 'disobeyed' orders and went to Robotropolis, which led to his being roboticised, and trying to raze Knothole to the ground. It was utterly idiotic and bullshit when they tried to arrest and punish Sonic for something Nack had done, and something he had literally zero control over - and the fact that they made a distinction this time to clarify that Sally isn't backstabbing them here isn't a bad thing. The reveal was obvious, but I can't agree that Silver constantly calling them a traitor wasn't important.

In my opinion this is only excusable to a point. It doesn't in anyway stop the characters from being absent of critical thinking. Hell, the thinking they had to do wasn't even that critical. I can understand going in hard on the assumption that the word "traitor" meant a willing participant at first. I've expressed that before as well. However, over time a lot of the factors concerning this mystery stopped that from being a viable way to excuse the way they weren't addressing the obvious elephant in the room and the way the narrative kept treating their ignorance as completely on the same level as it was when Silver first brought up the traitor concept tells me that they're all either stupid or just legit didn't even care. 

The fact that none of them, not even Tails, surmised that the person currently betraying them, willingly or not, could have been the actual person he was looking for will always be infuriating to me and their reaction to him saying the name of the person whom they were in the middle of chasing down for attacking random villages... it's getting me angry all over again, honestly. It just baffles and boggles the mind that it apparently didn't even cross their minds because they were taking that hard a stance on the semantics. 

When Sally's literally a murder robot doing all this shit you'd think at least one person would throw it out there as a suggestion. Or at the very least have the moment where it finally clicked be the moment where Silver says Sally's name. Fucking brain-dead simpletons.

The world's been reset though so I can freely ignore it now. 

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I feel like this really boils down to how much you're willing to suspend your disbelief, and how invested you are in these specific incarnations of the characters. 

Me personally, I vaguely remember being in a similar position as Mike, but less because this version of Sonic didn't align with how I perceived him, and more because of how over this plotline I was. All of the buildup and frustration with Silver and the reveal isn't even much of a reveal. I somewhat empathized with Sonic because I was just as frustrated with Silver throwing accusations around as he was. When the main character's feelings align with my own, it's kind of hard for me to see them as in the wrong. Sure, this Sonic may not be the righteous hero who is always willing to turn the other cheek that I know from the games, but I do know that Silver was very fucking annoying and I think that's what Flynn was leaning heavily into for this particular plotline. 

Was that a good call? Hard to say, I don't think a story should go out of its way to frustrate you on purpose unless there's a point. But it didn't really feel like there was any point to Silver's whole plotline, and ultimately rendered meaningless anyway due to the reboot. 

 

 

I dunno man...Silver is just....such a messy ass character. I can't blame Flynn too much, because this is pretty Silver's claim to fame in the entire franchise, to this day even. Desperation caused him to make some truly misguided and boneheaded decisions, and instead of slowing down and thinking things through, he just doubles down on said decisions. It's really hard to get behind a character like that, because even if their intentions are good, it doesn't change the fact that they're actively making things worse for everyone around them. I can honestly understand why they more or less completely rewrote his entire personality after this into something more palatable. 

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22 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I dunno man...Silver is just....such a messy ass character. I can't blame Flynn too much, because this is pretty Silver's claim to fame in the entire franchise, to this day even. Desperation caused him to make some truly misguided and boneheaded decisions, and instead of slowing down and thinking things through, he just doubles down on said decisions. It's really hard to get behind a character like that, because even if their intentions are good, it doesn't change the fact that they're actively making things worse for everyone around them. I can honestly understand why they more or less completely rewrote his entire personality after this into something more palatable. 

I mean, yeah. 

I've talked a whole lot about how much of a mess Silver is and how much of a mess this plot of his is. The individual stories with him I liked well enough but when strung together it's easy to be extremely done with him and his bullshit. I did not hold back on him when that situation back in #235 happened either. I refused to take a side because I hated how both of them were written and how they were both acting. 

It really just boils down to me just hating Sonic and Silver's dynamic here. I don't like how mean, vitriolic, and awkward it is. I get that they weren't on the best terms when they first met in either 06 or Rivals but the way those were written, at the very least, didn't feel like it was driving a stake through their relationship and twisting it THIS hard. 

When Sonic said "As long as you mean that, you and me are cool" with that stern, angry look on his face I didn't feel like anything was resolved. I just felt like shit. It doesn't even matter who's in the right anymore. At least not to me.

Sure, I'm sympathetic to Silver because he's a well meaning cinnamon roll with a fucked up future but his earlier actions were not only really destructive but from a narrative standpoint annoyingly redundant. You can't blame anyone for being fed up with him. On the flip side, Sonic's just an asshole to me for a whole host of reasons that I go into a lot... like all the time. I talk about it a lot so you guys know how I feel about him by now. I try my best to give him his props when they're due but I can't be dishonest with myself. I don't really like Pre-Reboot Archie Sonic's character as a whole. 

As a result I just don't like any of what happened in this Sonic V. Silver situation. I see them on the page together and I literally have trouble reading it because of how awkward it is. I'm not even joking. I'm putting this in the column of things that benefitted from the reboot, absolutely.

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I've already gone on record saying that I much prefer a Sonic who has some edges to him, so his attitude didn't really bother me too much here. But I'm also deftly aware that's just not his character in the modern games (even though that was literally the point of the character to begin with, but I digress) and that's where most people's impressions about his personality are going to come from. 

Sonic's the hero guy so his personality kind of has to be, at the very least, inoffensive to not really rub people the wrong way. Kind of reminds me how modern interpretations of Peter Parker as a super cinnamon bun who always had the heart of a hero...even though he was a real asshole in his early days.  But what these characters started as isn't as important as how people see them in the modern day, and if people look at them as role models and people to aspire to...kind of goes against that for them to be assholes, even when its warranted. 

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37 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

the way the narrative kept treating their ignorance as completely on the same level as it was when Silver first brought up the traitor concept tells me that they're all either stupid or just legit didn't even care. 

That probably is the case, yeah. Sonic never took Silver seriously about it. And he was right, because Sally wasn't a "traitor" and once she was roboticized it didn't matter at all, she had to be stopped either way. Silver failed at figuring out who the traitor was before she could become a problem. From the characters' point of view, he isn't really helping them by "revealing" this info because it doesn't matter to anyone but him. No, Sally isn't the traitor. Yes, she is a threat that could possibly kill them all. They're already aware of that. 

Sonic and Silver's personalities aside, I'm more annoyed by the fact that this plot-point even continued after #230. Silver could've figured out the traitor's identity if he just read a newspaper and did some critical thinking. The more I think about it, the less I understand what the point was, aside from giving Silver something to do.

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41 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I've already gone on record saying that I much prefer a Sonic who has some edges to him, so his attitude didn't really bother me too much here. But I'm also deftly aware that's just not his character in the modern games (even though that was literally the point of the character to begin with, but I digress) and that's where most people's impressions about his personality are going to come from. 

Sonic's the hero guy so his personality kind of has to be, at the very least, inoffensive to not really rub people the wrong way. Kind of reminds me how modern interpretations of Peter Parker as a super cinnamon bun who always had the heart of a hero...even though he was a real asshole in his early days.  But what these characters started as isn't as important as how people see them in the modern day, and if people look at them as role models and people to aspire to...kind of goes against that for them to be assholes, even when its warranted. 

We've definitely talked about this before, you and I. I'll just say again that to me there's a difference between Sonic having a bit of an attitude and a bit of snark and him just being an asshole. I don't think the point was that he was ever supposed to just be an ass. There's a fine line that I've always felt needed to be maintained and Archie Sonic always crossed it for me.

For me. 

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20 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

We've definitely talked about this before, you and I. I'll just say again that to me there's a difference between Sonic having a bit of an attitude and a bit of snark and him just being an asshole. I don't think the point was that he was ever supposed to just be an ass. There's a fine line that I've always felt needed to be maintained and Archie Sonic always crossed it for me.

For me. 

I see it like this...if Sonic is rubbing you (the audience) the wrong way with his personality...then he's being 100% pure Sonic. That was the entire point of the character and yes, it made him super controversial as a result. But that was the point. Sonic isn't just another talking animal character who says some snarky lines of dialogue, he's in your face, obnoxious, and meant to annoy the living hell out of you with that attitude. 

But that was the 90's, and we're in the Modern era now, so yea that type of personality isn't really needed anymore for Sonic and can be read as him just being an all and out asshole like you said. Archie Sonic's personality is definitely a product of the time it was created, as we can the see the second the reboot occurred, Sonic's personality got dialed back severely into his more benign video game counterpart, which carried over into IDW.

I could definitely see 90's era Sonic just being completely fucking done with Silver's shit like he was here, but not Modern era Sonic. If anything, Modern Sonic would be the one who calmed everyone else down and heard Silver out. 

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1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

I see it like this...if Sonic is rubbing you (the audience) the wrong way with his personality...then he's being 100% pure Sonic. That was the entire point of the character and yes, it made him super controversial as a result. But that was the point. Sonic isn't just another talking animal character who says some snarky lines of dialogue, he's in your face, obnoxious, and meant to annoy the living hell out of you with that attitude. 

But that was the 90's, and we're in the Modern era now, so yea that type of personality isn't really needed anymore for Sonic and can be read as him just being an all and out asshole like you said. Archie Sonic's personality is definitely a product of the time it was created, as we can the see the second the reboot occurred, Sonic's personality got dialed back severely into his more benign video game counterpart, which carried over into IDW.

I could definitely see 90's era Sonic just being completely fucking done with Silver's shit like he was here, but not Modern era Sonic. If anything, Modern Sonic would be the one who calmed everyone else down and heard Silver out. 

... I don't agree with that. I'm sorry. I feel like the point was just to create a character with 90's 'tude. He was rebellious and in your face but I figured it was supposed to be endearing and only obnoxious to the evil opposition he was facing. There's no way they intended for him to annoy his audience. That makes no sense to me. 

 

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The Traitor Plot was a dumb and over-dramatic way to justify keeping Silver in the past. 

Was over the melodrama of that arc by time Sonic finally lashed out of him -- but also understood it. 

Sonic was showing signs of being stressed and increasingly frustrated as the arc went on. He wasn't just having one Bad Day as Scourge put it, but a series of them. What frustrated Sonic about Silver in particular was how caught up in his personal mission he was when so much was going wrong around them. It wasn't until Silver decided to take a more active approach to helping that Sonic began to soften towards him. 

What Sonic did wasn't right, but that was the point. He reached his breaking point and let his emotions get the best of him. 

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"Character development"? Lol, how could you justify making a character go from "no-character teenager" to "8-years-old scatterbrain"? 

People change as they age for many completely reasonable reasons. 

Hell, even if Sega said that Charmy must change right here and now it could be that Charmy came to realize just how fleeting life could be when his was almost taken in the Egg Grapes. A near-death experience can most certainly change a person. 

He decides the best way to proceed forward is to, as the kids say, Live His Best Life. That means trying and doing things he hasn't done. The scatterbrained-ness could be him not having experience in the situation. The childishness could be contributed to his now happy-go-lucky nature.

Charmy is not concerned about the future because he now understands its not certain. 

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It is bad writing to have a brain-damaged teenager acting like an 8 years-old? 

It's bad writing to suggest that Eggman, being the monster that he is, decided not only to just hurt one character when he captured the entire city but to hurt Charmy Bee; a character who would have little to no emotional impact on the character he was trying to break with his actions (Sonic). 

Let's be real, here. Eggman would've went for one of the Acorns or Freedom Fighters if the "fix" Charmy thing wasn't the angle. 

I'd Agree to Disagree if how Charmy's character is written even now didn't bother me.

It's justified now in that " Oh, he's a kid. That's funny. " Just a shallow interpretation of what even a young child could be. 

Cream has more depth of character than Modern Charmy does. 

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Snively is beaten, and left to rot in an eggpod.

Aw. I had completely suppressed that memory. 

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14 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

... I don't agree with that. I'm sorry. I feel like the point was just to create a character with 90's 'tude. He was rebellious and in your face but I figured it was supposed to be endearing and only obnoxious to the evil opposition he was facing. There's no way they intended for him to annoy his audience. That makes no sense to me. 

 

You gotta keep in mind the context. Sonic's personality was primarily manufactured to combat Mario, the "bland goody goody two shoes" character.

You ever notice how both Mario and Eggman are fat scientists clad in red with large mustaches.

Eggman was the "uncool and lame" character to Sonic's "coolness". 

And yes, he rubbed many people thr wrong way as a result of that attitude. But it kind of ensured Sonic had a lasting legacy. He wasn't just just another do-gooder hero in a sea full of them, Sonic "played by his own rules"

 

And if all of that sounds incredibly stupid then congrats you figured out why Sonic was controversial. He was cool to kids who found him cool, but completely obnoxious to anyone who didn't get the appeal.

 

Yes, Sonic was the original Poochie, except he stood the test of time.

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1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

You gotta keep in mind the context. Sonic's personality was primarily manufactured to combat Mario, the "bland goody goody two shoes" character.

You ever notice how both Mario and Eggman are fat scientists clad in red with large mustaches.

Eggman was the "uncool and lame" character to Sonic's "coolness". 

And yes, he rubbed many people thr wrong way as a result of that attitude. But it kind of ensured Sonic had a lasting legacy. He wasn't just just another do-gooder hero in a sea full of them, Sonic "played by his own rules"

 

And if all of that sounds incredibly stupid then congrats you figured out why Sonic was controversial. He was cool to kids who found him cool, but completely obnoxious to anyone who didn't get the appeal.

 

Yes, Sonic was the original Poochie, except he stood the test of time.

Okay but I think the distinction that you and I aren't clicking on here is that none of that equates to "being an asshole" to me. That all sounds exactly like what I just said I thought he was supposed to be. 

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Insofar as the spat with Sonic and Silver goes…I can’t really fault either one.

Sonic had been through a lot, more than any kind of stress he has ever been in from the games, and so it just makes sense why he would be uptight around Silver given how they’ve clashed.

But Silver comes from an arguably worst period in time and is trying to set things right, only he’s doing it with little to go on—essentially trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle if the pieces were scattered around a planet.

To me, it’s a matter of putting myself in the characters’ shoes—if I were Sonic, having to fight while some of my friends are incapacitated or worse, enslaved, and I’m fighting my damndest to rescue them and set things right, that kind of stress would have me on edge too. And I certainly wouldn’t appreciate being told people who I knew and trusted since childhood would somehow turn traitor and ruin the world, especially given what I actually saw happen to them with my own eyes.

But if I were Silver, in a ruined, seemingly dying future that the only way to fix seems to be to time travel and stop/destroy the cause, only to fail every step of the way…I’d be pretty desperate for clues too. If I’m only given scraps of information, with no other infrastructure or source to make better connections with in my timeline, I’d easily jump to conclusions myself when the most I have to go on is narrowed down a small group of people with only one of them being the cause—essentially a game of “Guess Who?” with global/temporal consequences.

What keeps me from getting upset, aside from having followed the comics since the literal beginning, is that the writing just lines up and keeps the issue grey over who’s right and wrong about this. Or basically, the logic that leads toward the two heroes clashing…makes a lot of sense.

Now granted, you could say Silver could’ve chose better words, but my suspension of disbelief made me see his fumblings as part of Silver’s character as adapted from the games to the comics, but without a him gullibly following an outside force intentionally manipulating him to an even worse outcome (and who could’ve done the job themselves).

I don’t know. This just seems more of a case of both sides having a point to them, even tho we as the audience are starting to piece things together better than they do—it’s easy to call characters stupid when you have a god’s eye view of the story while the characters don’t.

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6 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Okay but I think the distinction that you and I aren't clicking on here is that none of that equates to "being an asshole" to me. That all sounds exactly like what I just said I thought he was supposed to be. 

I suppose it varies from person to person. We had people calling Sonic a jerk just a from a few comments made in that Rise of the Wisps short. Clearly everyone's threshold is different. We're getting off topic tho.

 

Whole situation could have been written better for both Sonic and Silver overall.

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It's so fascinating to watch people debate about whether or not the Archie version of Sonic's in character or not with how he talks to Silver.

Personally I have no problem with how how Sonic is written. Archie Sonic is not Sega Sonic, and with all due respect, I think that's your main hangup Detective Mike. You're judging Archie Sonic as if he was Sega Sonic.

I don't blame Sonic for snapping at Silver. Silver keeps fucking up with the way that he accuses all of Sonic's friends of being traitors.

Character wise I actually like Archie Sonic more than Sega Sonic. So I'm bias.:wink:

[quote]In the game, Sonic asked what was going on and Silver said “circumstances have changed” and that he needed to save the princess. Sonic didn’t question that because he wished to prioritize saving the princess too. One could say he got over that whole “trying to kill him” thing quickly but the interesting thing about that is… no one DOES say that. I’ve actually never seen anyone complain that Sonic forgave Silver and let him help him in an instant. Not once in the 16 years that Sonic ‘06 has been a thing. That’s just what Sonic would do, you know?[/quote]

I actually hate that Sonic doesn't ask why Silver's now helping him.

There's a very strong feeling of sadness that hangs over the comic from issue 244-247(Ian, probably felt it too when he was writing these final issues).

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As much as I agree with the "different universe here", there is a point in judging Sonic compared to the mainline version of him : some people will come to the comics to get their fix of Sonic in a different format. So some points being the same or different will either be something they like or dislike depending of why they go to this version.

It's a fair assessment to want the character of Sonic to be like the one they like, while it's a fair assessment too to want something different, or like it because it's different.

That's where the basic question comes to "what are we getting from that".

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3 hours ago, Vampfox said:

It's so fascinating to watch people debate about whether or not the Archie version of Sonic's in character or not with how he talks to Silver.

Personally I have no problem with how how Sonic is written. Archie Sonic is not Sega Sonic, and with all due respect, I think that's your main hangup Detective Mike. You're judging Archie Sonic as if he was Sega Sonic.

No I'm not.

I'm sorry but with the amount of times I've gone out of my way to clarify and explain and RE-explain that I UNDERSTAND that they're two completely different versions of Sonic and the amount of times I've admitted that most of my grievances come down to personal preferences there's literally no reason on Earth for anyone to be saying that about me. I've stated time and time and time and time again what my actual position is and how often that I'm aware of Archie Sonic's standing as a different personality from Game Sonic. I've acknowledged the differences. I've acknowledged the story-reasons for why they're different. I literally even stated multiple times that I UNDERSTAND why he'd be angry both in context, out of context, and even gave reasons for why Silver was out of line as well. I even gave those reasons during this very conversation. 

If you're going to ignore all that then what is even the point of painstakingly trying to make sure I'm understood? What is so hard about grasping that I'm merely expressing what I like and why I like it? That's all I've been doing. I've never said that Archie Sonic is "out of character". Hell, I literally said the opposite of that during my review of #235. 

Here's an quote from my review of #235 where Sonic attacked Silver. In it I literally say that even though I don't like Archie Sonic's behavior I outright ADMIT that it makes sense for THIS VERSION of Sonic because I'm aware he's supposed to be a different version of Sonic.

FROM ISSUE #235 REVIEW

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Sonic dismissing this because he believes in his friends isn’t… technically the logical thing to do but it is the emotionally satisfying thing to do. At least, for those who care about what he’s going through (which I did not back in the day). 

So, him being upset at Silver makes complete sense. 

Now the real question is, does it make sense for him to not just attack him but to attack him so hard that it blows a hole through his own house and then violently drag him skidding along the road to the hospital so that he can smash his face against Antoine’s hospital bed?

Well, here’s the thing. I think the reason this moment bothered me so much goes back to the usual thing I talk about all the time about how hard it truly is to keep this version of Sonic and the one I’m used to separate in my head. 

My brain hungers and desires for a different Sonic. One that isn’t usually this angry, or vindictive, or mean, or rough… but the fact of the matter is, the answer is yes.

Yes, it does make sense that this Sonic would do that.

Attacking Silver and doing all that shit to him upon simply hearing Antoine’s name being brought up in a bad light as a result of what happened to him is totally something this Sonic would do. Definitely.

It makes sense. 

Here's me saying the same thing from my review of Issue #233 about Sonic's conduct during the trial with Geoffrey. I said I understood why he'd act this way but I stated that I just wasn't a fan of it and why.

FROM ISSUE #233 REVIEW

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I’m sorry. I’m not a fan of his conduct here. I, as the kind of reader I am, can’t sit through a tale like that of someone being fucked over by a kingdom that’s routinely been shown to be the absolute worst and then hear a story about how the person he fell in love with is most likely dead and then stomach Sonic whooping and cheering when that person gets declared guilty.

I keep saying I UNDERSTAND it. I do. I get it… I REALLY don’t like it. I’m sorry. 

Here's me explaining my ACTUAL position again back in my review of #224 when Sonic wasn't able to fully fight off Naugus because he was worried about committing treason.

FROM ISSUE #224 REVIEW

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I hated this SO much back in the day. 

I couldn’t tell you how vitriolic and angry I was reading this part. I didn’t care that the council and the king were open to it. I just cared that Sonic gave a shit about the fact that he’d be committing treason to do this.

Again, I was used to the version of Sonic that would just do what he thought was right and damn the consequences if people didn’t like it. It makes sense that this version of Sonic, who has been shown to care more about his standing among the people, would be worried about being called a traitor for fighting this hard to go against the uh… “will” of the council and the kingdom.

But that was my opinion back then. What do I think of this moment now?

Well, truthfully, I still don’t like it really… but I understand it a bit more at the very least. It’s not making me frothing mad like it did back in the day.

And these are just the examples I could pull from recent memory based on moments I remember having issues with. I'm certain I've said it way more times than this. I could easily go back and find more examples of me acknowledging that Archie and Game Sonic are different and that I'm merely just trying to explain why I don't like Archie Sonic's conduct and prefer Game Sonic. 

I've never said Sonic is out of character. EVEN during the House of Cards fiasco I NEVER said Sonic was out of character and people who LIKE Archie Sonic would say that about him there.

I'm not saying you're wrong for liking it. I'm not even necessarily saying Sonic is IN the wrong. I'm saying I don't like it and explaining why I prefer something else. That is it. 

At this point with how often I've gone out of my way to clarify this, the only way you could possibly think I haven't is if you're just ignoring what I'm actually saying. 

Either that or you're joking.

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

Either that or you're joking.

I'm not joking. I seriously think that subconsciously you do have a hangup, and are judging Archie Sonic as if he was Sega Sonic.

8 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:
  Quote

I’m sorry. I’m not a fan of his conduct here. I, as the kind of reader I am, can’t sit through a tale like that of someone being fucked over by a kingdom that’s routinely been shown to be the absolute worst and then hear a story about how the person he fell in love with is most likely dead and then stomach Sonic whooping and cheering when that person gets declared guilty.

I keep saying I UNDERSTAND it. I do. I get it… I REALLY don’t like it. I’m sorry. 

Sonic was right to act the way that he did here.

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Giving that Geoffrey left Sonic for dead in the Special Zone the way that Sonic behaves here makes perfect sense.

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1 hour ago, Vampfox said:

I'm not joking. I seriously think that subconsciously you do have a hangup, and are judging Archie Sonic as if he was Sega Sonic.

Then you're literally ignoring everything I'm saying, including all the evidence I just posted, deliberately, so that you can be upset about something. 

Don't play at reading my "subconscious" when I'm literally explaining to you what the actual situation is.

I'm acknowledging Archie Sonic as his own character and explaining why I prefer Game Sonic. That is it. 

1 hour ago, Vampfox said:

Giving that Geoffrey left Sonic for dead in the Special Zone the way that Sonic behaves here makes perfect sense.

The literal fact that I said, IN THE THING YOU'RE QUOTING that I UNDERSTAND his conduct IS me acknowledging that "it makes sense". I'm just explaining why I don't like it and don't prefer it. 

You can't need this much hand holding. Words aren't this hard to understand. 

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While I don't exactly agree with Mike's assessment about Sonic in this book, let's not start making accusatory remarks. He's entitled to how he feels if its something he personally doesn't like.

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That, and no one has to like every incarnation.

I get where Vampfox is coming from, but we can acknowledge that “alternate takes have alternate rules” and not like the alternate take—it just key that folks not be a fucking dick about it. I’m not pointing fingers, as no one has done that as of late, just that it’s amazing how people once came in this topic and absolutely refused not to do that and spiraled things into a pissing match that no one wanted. 

I want to avoid that happening because of people’s differing points of view.

Much as I may disagree with Mike’s assessment at times (tho he liked the Sonic in Space arc like I did, so he’s definitely cool on that end), he’s been the most respectful out of just about all the detractors who disliked Pre-SGW Archie Sonic without mocking the tastes of those who do like it that we’ve seen in the past. Let’s give him the same respect in return. 👍

Besides, he started in from the games…which, yes, is gonna color his view, but it would color anyone’s view too, and we’re also in a new era of alternate takes than we were from the 90s. That, and didn’t start reading the comics until after a later point and took the time to actually go back to the beginning for better context—not many would even do that.

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It blows my mind that it took until 2005 before Nicole got her lynx form.

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Nowadays I can't imagine Nicole without it.

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Archie Sonic the Hedgehog - Issue #248: When Worlds Collide - Part Three of Twelve: No Holds Barred

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Another week has gone by with no controversy happening at all. I actually feel great. I’m really excited to continue this crossover. I can only imagine how this’ll feel when I make my way through Mega Man. You bet I’ll re-read the crossovers when I do. Also, what a dynamic cover this is. But of course it would have to be as this is, I imagine, the one where our two heroes fight. 

Like, actually fight. Not that shit from Colors where Eggman says they’ll fight but his lame energy laser conks out to keep anything cool from happening.

Spoiler

Rivals Variant

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Here are the other rivals. The background is more Mega Man’s style this time with a dark haze and some electric voltage to sweeten the deal. Again, it gives off the same energy as the other Rivals variant but I can’t be too excited about it because it’s still just two characters posing. It looks good though. 

Writer: Ian Flynn
Pencils: Jamal Peppers
Inks: Jim Amash
Colors: Matt Herms
Letters: John Workman
Cover by Patrick “Spaz” Spaziante and Matt Herms
Variant Cover by Spaz, Thomas Mason, and Ryan Jampole

The fight between our two heroes continues. As it rages on, we catch a glimpse of the conclusions they’ve come to about one another. For Sonic, it’s fairly simple, though, even he can tell there’s something “special” about Mega Man, even if he does admit this with a bit of an unimpressed twinge to it.

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Gotta love the way the light shines off the hero as he asserts his dominance over the opposition. Unfortunately, it’s got a bit of an odd twist of lemon here since he’s doing this to another hero. 

So anyway, Mega Man starts blastin’.

He doesn’t say anything to Sonic but does think to himself that he’s got no idea what the fuck Sonic is talking about. He was just talking as though he’s working against Wily and his sensors keep telling him that he’s organic. However, like Dr. Narasu from Sonic X episode two and the comics (yes, I am also shocked I remembered his name) he believes Sonic must be a robot because he moves too quickly. Also, Wily has had defiant robots before.

He and Eggman share so much in common. It’s great.

Sonic slams one of the floating platforms down towards Mega Man to take him by surprise and the two go at it again. The Fight seems evenly matched to Tails Man and he asks if he should keep broadcasting it to his masters. I don’t know though. It doesn’t look like Mega Man’s managed to accomplish much. Sonic keeps knocking him around and all his shots are missing. 

The two doctors absolutely want to keep watching though. This is what crossovers were made for!

They sit back and enjoy another glass of champagne and delight in an evil bro fist. 

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Yes, quite so.

They compliment one another’s nemesis because they relish in the idea of their hated hero destroying the other's, though, I do love that Eggman has to throw in the comment about it not being at HIS hand. He’ll still give Wily props for what Mega Man is doing. Wily gives Eggman props for what Sonic is doing too.

Their egos are magnanimous. It’s kind of incredible to see them so brazenly take credit for things that aren’t even directly their doing. Yeah, they’re the reason the two of them are fighting but how strong their hero is pushes it a bit. No fucks given from these two.

Even better though, Shadow Man, Knuckles Man, and Rose Woman return with the white Chaos Emerald. Eggman gets so excited he tosses his glass of champagne behind him and Orbot has to dive forward to grab it. 

They then do their best reenactment of that scene at the end of Generations where they’re complimenting each other a lot before they’ve decided to put the Chaos Emerald in its proper place.

Back in the fight, the two of them are looking mighty bruised. It’s funny because I actually haven’t seen Mega Man land a single hit on Sonic in any of these panels but he must have because he’s got bruising on him. 

The two of them give that expected but welcome silent acknowledgement of the other’s power.

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It almost feels a little hokey. Especially for Sonic. However, it’s forgivable. It works in this context because of the nature of what this is supposed to be. Plus, Sonic gives it a quick thought and immediately is back to thinking he can do it again.

Mega Man is pretty impressive though. He remarks that Sonic is faster than Quick Man but he’s still able to track his movements. Super Fighting Robot indeed.

Sonic decides he needs to use that brain thing to win this fight and sets about using the environment to his advantage.

He zips about the place like a pinball and lands one, no, two more damaging hard hits on Mega Man. Mega Man tries to hit him again but he just can’t.

Damn. Come on Mega Man. I know the book says you're even but at least let me see you land a hit once.

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There you go.

Of course it happens when Sonic stops to gloat.

Mega Man is looking really busted up though. You know it’s bad when the hair starts peeking out from under the helmet. Perhaps he’s even more impressive than one would think because he admits to being too drained to fight properly after the fight against the Roboticized Masters at the bank he just came here from. 

That and it just might be thematic that Sonic is fighting better in his own world.

We cut to Dr. Light’s lab where our Blues brother has returned home. Dr. Light is ecstatic and Proto Man is… mild.

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OOF.

I may not know what’s going on here just yet but I could feel that in my chest despite that. 

Proto Man hands him a drive with some “readings” on it that he might need. Roll goes up to him and offers to repair him but Blues is about to refuse. However, Roll insists as sternly as she can and Proto Man gives in… but only for her.

She got him to listen. I can tell that’s quite a feat.

Auto, another repair bot, asks Dr. Light if he can make heads or tails of the data he just got. Dr. Light says that Time Man sent him info on the weird readings around the world and they match Proto Man’s “readings” of the ring he put… on a thumb drive. So Dr. Light just… types on his computer and manages to match the right frequency and intensity based on the readings in the device and creates a warp ring right where Mega Man is!

They got really cool tech in 20XX. Holy shit.

Mega Man sees it and is about to use it as his ticket out of here but the poor boy gets bullied by Sonic again.

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It’s really funny but it’s also kind of sad. He’s such a good boy. Look at that sad face.

Mega Man doesn’t give up though. He figures all he has to do is take Sonic back with him so he runs towards the ring.

Sonic, the cocky fucker, plays at pretending to be fearful of letting him escape before he rushes at him, thinking he still has the upper hand.

He doesn’t though. He just got played.

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Mega Man’s plan worked. Sonic is coming back with him.

A part of me wondered if he would have followed after him anyway but there’s a chance he might have just been trying to destroy him with that attack. Who can really say?

Either way, this gets captured on the live feed and we get the doctors reacting to it, including that glorious Eggman spit-take image that I love.

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Wily’s got quite the butt chin, doesn’t he?

Anyway, this is the first time Eggman’s heard of a Thomas. Wily explains to him that he’s his rival (one of them) and that he’s also quite brilliant.

Eggman and Wily have a bit of a self-esteem word off trying to ensure that they’re still hyping themselves up as the most brilliant of the brilliants here before Wily gets back to business and says he’s still a problem that needs to be taken care of. After all, their plan is still in its early stages and if Dr. Light could interfere and make a fucking warp ring in the span of a single page after getting that info from Blues then there’s reason to believe they might be fucked.

When exiting the warp ring, Sonic claims to be surprised to be back in Station Square… then scratches that and guesses Central City… then scratches then and guesses Westopolis… then sees one of those weird Mega Man robots and realizes he’s got no Earthly clue where he is.

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Mega Man enlightens him in a way that’s almost too wholesome. He mentions that he calls the person who created him “Dad” in a way that gets across his sweet, human-like nature to Sonic more naturally then the two of them bonding over realizing their mommies are both named Martha.

Of course, Sonic doesn’t mention it past merely stating that he’s surprised he calls his creator dad. What he’s really focusing on are the gaggle of bots that showed up with their awesome beam-me-down-Scotty entrances.

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It’s time for Round two. Mega Man is back on his own world which means it’s time for him to take the advantage. Show me what’cha got, Super Fighting Robot!

Funsies, funsies, funsies, funsies, FUN, FUN, FUN, FUN, FUN! I’m having SO much fuuuuuun! I love it. What a good time. I feel really refreshed. It’s such a nice treat to experience again after suffering through the nuclear fallout from Penders and that lawsuit. I almost don’t want it to end. At the very least, you could have let both sides remember it happened… but we’re not there yet. It’s time to see what Mega Man brings to the table on this, the fight between the glorious blue boys of virtue!

 

Mega Man - Issue #25: When Worlds Collide - Part Four of Twelve: Through the Looking Glass

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OMG! Mega Man issue 25 predicted Sonic Forces. All of the Sonic characters here are the exact same main characters from Sonic Forces to a T. Holy shasta. It’s a conspiracy. It’s a sign of some sort. Quick, somebody draw a red circle around one of them for the Youtube thumbnail. We need this to start trending… wait, Shadow isn’t here. Theory destroyed. 

It is interesting that Shadow isn’t here though. 

In all seriousness, this is a lovely cover. Wouldn’t change a thing about it except, maybe, a more interesting background would be nice. Also, it’s a milestone issue for Mega Man, one of a couple milestone issues that hilariously enough happen amongst these crossover stories a few times. Mega Man and Sonic just share milestone celebration covers with one another sometimes. 

Nice touch to have the Sonic side be folded in so that it stands out as a Mega Man cover first and foremost too.

Spoiler

E.F.F (Evil Friends Forever) Variant

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It took them a while but they finally did it. They finally made a variant cover worth a damn and it ended up being one of the best covers of the series. This is what I’m talking about. Look at those strung up heroes in the background. What LOOOSERS! The best evil friends forever have this shit on lockdown, enjoying a glass of champagne on a bicycle built for two. It’s just magnificent.

Writer: Ian Flynn
Pencils: Jamal Peppers and Ryan Jampole
Inks: Jim Amash
Colors: Matt Herms
Letters: John Workman
Cover by Patrick “Spaz” Spaziante
Variant Cover by Peppers, Spaz, Amash, and Herms

Another issue where the credits and the fucking title of the issue are at the end of the book again. For no reason. Whatever…

We continue the fight with Mega Man surrounded by all his robo-buddies and friends. He’s warning Sonic to surrender because his friends are overprotective and will turn him into a blue throw rug if he doesn’t.

Sonic still won’t, of course, but it’s also funny watching him pretend he knows what Mega Man’s deal is now that he’s ripped a single chip out of him. However, he’s on Mega Man’s home turf now and with that comes the home field advantage.

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Sonic owns the patent on rolling into a ball to hit people. He said it’s his move so it must be true. Pull a Shido and sue.

Also, look at my blue robot boy now! Look at him glug down that E-Tank, all confident like. Because Mega Man is so often a sweetheart, the moments where he gets to be cocky are actually really endearing.

As a result of things twisting and turning around in ways that Sonic isn’t prepared for against these new animal bots, Mega Man is gaining the advantage, to the point where he even says Sonic is too slow!

Sonic even says a line reminiscent of a line I recall from the live-action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie, complete with what I even believe are the same pauses in dialogue.

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Sonic decides to “get serious” (he wishes he weren’t being serious before this) and runs up the side of the building to bop the birdie robot, Beat, on the head. Mega Man lets go and lands on his dog Rush.

Sonic says “Of course the dog flies”. I’d imagine if Tails was the one who caught Sonic when HE fell, Mega Man would have been like “The fox flies?!” or something to that effect. 

They both live in worlds where things that aren’t known for flying can fly. It’s all very fun to think about.

Sonic decides he’s just going to play keep away now and runs in between the cars to get away. He still thinks Mega Man is a killer robot so I’m not entirely sure why he’s doing this. He’s lucky Mega Man isn’t because he gets sad and decides to talk instead, saying that there’s no need to involve innocent people.

Sonic basically accuses Mega Man of being a trigger happy hypocrite and Mega Man retorts by saying that if he just returns the gem he and his buddies stole from the bank, he’ll call off the chase. Sonic says he didn’t steal anything and accuses Mega Man of kidnapping his friends to which, of course, Mega Man denies doing as well.

Thus, the big inevitable folly to their plan reveals itself!

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Conflict resolution via talking things out! OUR ONE WEAKNESS!!!

Fucking brilliant. I love this. 

It’s still funny even after all these years. What a great way to utilize story troupes and spin them to your favor.

The two doctors foresaw this happening but were hoping to have gathered the last remaining Chaos Emerald before it did. Eggman decides to immediately say fuck it and demands Tails Man blow them to bits. Wily momentarily calls Eggman crazy and says that a direct conflict will only clue them in faster but Eggman, wearing an adorable sad face, just says that it’s either strike now while they’re weak and tired or wait for them to regroup and come after them. 

Wily REALLY likes lounging around and sipping champagne in the zone they’ve made together so he pushes Eggman out of the way and gives the same order to blow them up too.

It’s funny because the doctors aren’t saying it but I suspect they just know that the heroes will find some way of locating the zone they're in too. They know full well how this goes. They don’t know how they will but they know they will eventually.

Tails Man goes in and starts firing off whirlwinds like he just activated his All-Star move from the SEGA racing games. Cars go flying and this kicks starts both Sonic and Mega Man’s hero modes.

Sonic somehow manages to jump through the window of a car and yank a woman out of it and into his arms before it crashes into another car as it falls out of the air. I know he’s fast but to yank her out of the car, presumably while her seat belt might have still been on, is quite the feat. I wish I could have actually seen that on the slow motion replay.

Sonic also catches a glimpse of Mega Man stopping cars and helping people out so he goes in and does a little bop on his head while offering a truce like a true rapscallion. 

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Thankfully, Mega Man doesn’t seem to mind. He recognizes that Sonic’s personality is a bit rough around the edges but he means well.

They save all the people they can before Tails Man zips in to fuck some shit up. Mega Man, recalling that his charge shot stuns the Roboticized Masters, asks Sonic to distract him so that he can do it properly. Sonic mouths off at him for a bit but does it.

He’s not entirely sure if Tails Man is Tails but is sure to apologize if it is him and kicks him down to Mega Man’s level so that he can fire at him.

Once he’s stunned, Sonic spin-dashes into him and Tails Man starts going on the fritz. Recognizing that Sonic’s spin-dash did something new to him, he decides to steal his weapon data. Sonic’s got a distrustful bowl of snark prepared for him when he says that as well but Mega Man just says “Unless you have a better idea…” and goes for it anyway.

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Viola! Tails is back in adorable furry form once again.

Upon getting his buddy back, Sonic immediately goes in to noogie the poor nerd. Tails is happy though. He even kick starts the make up conversation.

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Heh. Sonic is calling Mega Man the one with an attitude. Adorable.

Anyway, Tails says the ones responsible for his kidnapping were Mega Man and some other robot whose description clues Mega Man into it being Bass. Tails also says he remembers being taken to a lab where Eggman and some guy named Albert were. Mega Man knows who that is as well.

Sonic asks them to slow down so he can follow this story better. He saw a robot that looked like Mega Man attack Silver. Mega Man deduces that if Wily is involved then that must have been Copy Robot. The same thing gets deduced about the existence of a Metal Sonic. Mega Man also explains that he saw other robots like Tails which clears up the part about Sonic’s missing friends.

They’re all caught up now. 

Sonic is ready to let this go but Mega Man is really flabbergasted by how quickly Sonic got over the fact that they were just trying to kill each other. Sonic doesn’t care but Mega Man doesn’t want to harm or kill any organic life and starts going on about how loopholes could be exploited to do it again or whatever. Sonic just starts laughing.

It’s a cute looking laugh too. He makes fun of the fact that Mega Man thought he was a robot but Mega Man apologizes and admits that his sensors literally told him he was organic but he just… ignored them because his brain couldn’t accept the existence of a living being that moved so fast. It’s understandable and I can’t help but feel for Mega Man but luckily Sonic can be a sweetheart too when it counts.

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I love how the confidence comes back to Mega Man’s face when Sonic offers his hand. There's no hard feelings and he can offer him a handshake without the sad face because he recognizes that Sonic isn’t offended or angry. Nice.

They decide that the next course of action is to head back to Dr. Light’s lab via instant transmission Star Trek beams. Sonic looks like he’s about to vomit when he comes out of the beam. Apparently people travel this way a lot but Sonic isn’t used to it so he got a bit sick. 

No time to dwell on a happy homecoming though. Sonic smells smoke and Mega Man rushes off to the lab where Bass and Metal Sonic are finishing up their attack on Dr. Light’s lab. Proto Man is staving off the last bit of Bass’s blasts before he goes back into the portal with Metal Sonic. Our heroes end up arriving a bit too late.

Mega Man asks if they’re all okay and Roll rushes in to hug him frantically explaining what happened before noticing the weird anthropomorphic animals in the room.

One explanation later and they’re off to work on finding a way to get the kidnapped Dr. Light back from the clutches of the doctors now that their two monstrous robot henchmen stole him.

Tails is pulling a Dr. Light by analyzing the frequencies of the ring portals that Dr. Light was also in the middle of analyzing. He recognizes it as the frequency he’s used to from the Special Zone. So, already he’s figured it out. My man.

Mega Man gets a little cross with how lackadaisical Sonic is about all this. I can’t blame him but it’s not like Sonic can actually do anything to help at this juncture anyway and he points this out.

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It’s easy to look at this scene and feel a certain way about Sonic’s dismissive attitude but, aside from the part where he tells Rock to relax, he’s mostly got the right idea. Let Tails and his friends do their thing and when they figure it out, head on out to do the hero thing. There’s no point in stewing in worry or anger, though, that’s not exactly something Mega Man can help, nor should he be expected to just not do. 

Thankfully, this doesn’t lead to any friction between them as Tails manages to get the ring portal open so they can have their new adventure in the Skull Egg Zone.

Odd time to bring this up but while Jamal Peppers’ art is fantastic for some reason, in this issue, there’s a lot more wonky looking drawings then not the more the issue goes on. Now, I suspect that it might be because of the other guy, Ryan Jampole. I have no proof of that but the way the artwork has this noticeable shift when Tails gets saved was hard not to notice.

It was very strange because you can literally see the decline. The issue starts off with everyone super on model in every shot and in every panel then it suddenly stops being that way. It never looks horrendous, I don’t think, but they all look a bit off in the second half in a lot of places. Especially Tails.

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Something’s always not quite right. He’s tall in one shot and then he’s got super short, tiny legs in another shot. It got a little hard not to notice and I don’t know if I can blame it on just the zoomed in images naturally looking a bit askew. Especially since that wasn’t really a problem at the start of the issue.

The fact that this happened with two pencilers working on the issue isn’t surprising I guess. If it weren’t for Matt Herms colors, this would basically look like a completely different issue altogether. The style shifting half-way through has happened before but it’s been a long while since it has without it literally being a second story at the back of the book.

When Tails gets the ring open, Roll comments on how it looks different from the others. Tails does the cocky nose rub thing and proudly says he stabilized it with a few calculations of his own. I’ll admit, I don’t know what either of them really mean here but I guess ring technology is beyond me.

It’s also Sonic’s turn to be the sweetheart, now that a call to action has been voiced.

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It’s cute. Although, I wouldn’t blame anyone for claiming this scene was being a bit disingenuous for framing things as though this wasn’t Sonic’s problem too. After all, they did confirm that Sonic’s missing friends and the Roboticized Master that Tails was are linked. However, that’s kind of like being the no-fun police. 

Tails says that wherever Sonic goes, he goes. Proto Man says he wishes to go as well and suggests bringing along Rush. 

They leave Tango and Beat back at the lab with Roll and Auto to keep it protected. Also, Duo is on his way. 

That’s right. Earlier, Dr. Light contacted a guy named Duo and asked him to swing by just in case they needed some help. Tails asks who this mysterious Duo is and Proto Man simply says he’s a friend. A powerful friend.

That’s all the relevant information we need so our five heroes head off into the portal and reach Wonderland.

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Boy, I sure wish I could appreciate the art within this image but unfortunately, it’s hard to see it through all the fucking boxes and words cluttering up the big final spread. Hmm. I wonder if maybe we could have cleared some of this up by moving the big ass title and the credits to the front of the book. HMMMMMMM!

Yeah, the train keeps on rolling and we’re still having loads of fun. The Mega Man field advantage was fun to bear witness too even if it didn’t last as long but that’s fine. The fight itself had already gone on for a sizable amount of time. The inevitable team-up between our two heroes with the prophesized handshake was what needed to come next and it delivered on that with writing just as well-crafted as the misunderstanding that got us to this position. I’m a bit surprised that it took four issues to reach this point upon re-reading it but I’m surprised by how well-paced this all feels. It doesn’t feel like it’s rushing at all, which I appreciate. Some people might not but I’ve always been one to prefer moderate pacing like this. It just feels like a really nice, swift read so far.


Sonic Universe - Issue #52: When Worlds Collide - Part 5 of 12: The Advance Guard

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Seeing Mega Man in the Sonic Channel art style is very interesting. Every time I see this style I’m reminded of how SA1 and SA2 used to use it for promotional character artwork. It’s only been 3-D models since then, which would be fine, if the models didn’t all look mostly the same now due to them having the same exact character style since Unleashed way back in 2008.  Even when the game’s style shifts like it did in Lost World, the models stay the same. Man, it would be nice to one day get something that felt like a nice, cartoony blend between the two.

Spoiler

Team Sonic Variant

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Another Team Sonic and Team Mega Man variant. I wonder if there was anyone out there who, when Archie started doing them, was like “I’m ONLY going to collect the variant covers now”. Would they be disappointed to get two of these so close to one another?

What am I thinking? There isn’t even a variant cover for every issue anyway…

Team Mega Man Variant

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Most of the variant covers in these comics haven’t been very good anyway so I’m not surprised some tropes are repeating BUT I will say that this one looks better than the Sonic one to me. Also, it’s nice that they didn’t rotate their positions so I could use it as a flip book between covers even though I’m never going to personally own them. Thanks for looking out for alternate universe me though.

Writer: Ian Flynn
Pencils: Tracy Yardley!
Inks: Terry Austin
Colors/Variant Cover Colors: Thomas Mason
Letters: A. Teuthis
Cover and Variant Covers by Patrick “Spaz” Spaziante

This issue marks our first major shift in the art-style for the crossover. Instead of Jamal Peppers on pencils we have Tracy Yardley! Instead of Matt Herms on colors were have Thomas Mason. Instead of Jim Amash on inks it’s Terry Austin.

Far be it from me to go too hard on critiquing these professionals on their work. It still looks like a good product. Nothing ever looks as bad as a lot of the art from before Issue #160 (well, there is an art-style in the reboot that comes close…) but I do have to voice some mild disappointment with the way the comic looks at this part. Especially off the heels of what just came before.

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For clarification, I don’t think this looks “bad”. I just remember thinking this particular combination isn’t working its magic as well as the earlier stuff.

Matt Herms is probably my favorite when it comes to the colors on the book so it’s already sad whenever he’s not there for me but Mr. Thomas Mason’s colors look especially washed out to me. I don’t know why but it’s hard not to notice when it comes to Sonic in particular. I understand it’s a lighter shade of blue so that necessarily doesn’t have to be a problem but I don’t know. Something feels like it’s missing.

As for Tracy’s art, the guy is always great whenever he’s drawing the Sonic characters. I don’t even necessarily think the Mega Man characters would look bad in something that was supposed to feel more like a stylized comic strip. Like the off-panels for instance.

Here… it doesn’t look right. Proto Man looks okay but Mega Man looks like a guy wearing a cheap Halloween costume in some shots. This thankfully isn’t too huge an issue with the other robots or Dr. Wily.

However, the other issue I think I have is how the Terry Austin’s inks look. They’re so super thin and they come with those breaks between strokes that really makes it look off. It doesn’t ever look quite finished to me. Just last issue we saw Jim Amash’s inks and those set the right feel for me. They were bold, thick, and didn’t have very many breaks or sharp angles to them. I just prefer that.

Our story actually begins with everyone just admiring how weird the Skull Egg Zone looks. They start to have a chat about different universes and the differences between where they live but Sonic gets really impatient really fast and wants to stay focused on the mission which… doesn’t sound like him but I guess he just really doesn’t want to talk about all this stuff.

The impatience thing is fine as that's usually a part of Sonic's M.O but it's weird that he's acting so uninterested in hearing about the other universes. It's not like they can't talk while they go on this mission. Might he wonder if they have some cool running spots he's never been to before? He still likes adventure right? 

Ah well. Copy Robot shows up to spoil any amount of fun they might have been having anyway. Rush actually has to save Sonic from almost getting blasted by him. When Sonic sees Copy Robot he realizes he’s the one who blasted Silver and remarks that he makes Metal Sonic look original.

Yeah, that’s actually always been an interesting thing about Metal Sonic. When I first saw him in Adventure 2: Battle as a kid my first reaction was to be severely creeped out. What the fuck is this thing and where did it come from and why is it making these unnerving, creepy ass sounds? Seriously, it was scaring the fuck out of little kid me. 

The other thought I had in my head was that it didn’t look like what I’d imagine a robot Sonic would look like. Metal Sonic’s design was, ironically enough, too good and too original looking for me to fully see it as a robot espy of Sonic. That turned out to be for the best though. He stands as a great example of how good they are at character designs. 

Copy Robot launches an attack on them with the Genesis Unit. Sonic recognizes the word Genesis but isn’t able to remember much before the fighting starts. 

Copy Robot faces off against Mega Man. Sonic fights a guy who reminds him of Monkey Khan except he doesn’t remember Monkey Khan so he says the guy merely gives him a case of Deja vu. Proto Man fights Mega Water S’s super powered super soaker and Tails gets the big strong pig man bot.

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I admire the little guy for not demanding a trade.

A page before we get these match-ups, we cut to Duo in space. He’s meditating when he finally receives Dr. Light’s S.O.S. When he hears it, he immediately heads back to Earth, no questions asked.

My hero.

We then cut back to the doctors in a scene that’s brilliant but starts off a bit odd for me since, again, I’m not used to Mega Man’s world so the chao fusion creature that looks like it took the features of one of Wily’s robots threw me off… like crazy. If I’m even right about what it is.

Also, we see Silver Man and Blaze Woman and they’ve got the final Chaos Emerald.

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It’s weird that this creature just going “Chao-met. Chao Tar. Chao Chao. Chao-met” is occupying 100% of my brain right now.

Wily and Eggman get into a bit of an argument when Eggman denounces the Genesis Unit that Wily made because he’s got the emeralds. Eggman fires back that the emeralds are the thing powering the base so he’s contributing more. Wily fires back by saying the gems wouldn’t be in their possession if they didn’t have the Roboticized Masters based on his design but Eggman says they wouldn’t have those if not for his roboticizer.

Then they glare at each other and make a bet that whoever’s nemesis survives the longest can claim their world as superior, ironically putting them in a position where they need to root for their hated enemies respectively.

It’s the first real instance of their comradery breaking down a bit. No matter how much they love celebrating their similarities, the egos on display here are too huge. It’s not going to work out in the end.

Sonic trash talks the Buster Rod G guy he’s facing and gloats about how great he is at smashing Badniks that look like him. He responds by multiplying and this prompts Sonic to ask Tails for help.

Tails is busy though. Tell em Tails.

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Oof.

Yeah. He’ll take that landing and call you in the morning when he buffs out the dent in his face.

Proto Man is fighting the water guy still and he’s talking smack because Proto Man isn’t managing to get a leg up on him in any way. He also fires harpoons that looks like cake batter spatulas at him.

Funnily enough, when he’s in the middle of saying Proto Man is all talk, Proto Man shoots lasers at him and he goes “EEP!” before putting up his shield and then clearing his throat to finish that braggadocios statement.

So yeah, a case of a coward acting tough.

Meanwhile, Copy Robot does a bootleg quoting of the Sonic OVA. I recognized it back in the day and thought it was strange indeed.

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It’s a little painful still but I’m sure you’d find it cute if you’re the type to love your references and what not. I… am so-so on them. Especially when it comes to lines like this that already sound unnatural in the thing it originated from. Like, in this context, why would it be strange?

Anyway, it turns out not to have been the right thing to say because Mega Man transforms using the weapon data he stole from Tails Man and whips out a new power-up as a result.

It literally blows Copy Robot away!

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The chump gets taken out in a single hit thanks to his newfound power. He targets the hulking pig bot which distracts him enough for Tails to counter attack and take him out basically off-screen. We don’t see the fallout of Tails’ final hit against the guy but judging by the look on his face, the fox fucked him up.

Mega Man fires at our guy playing the part of Monkey Khan for this episode but that leaves him open to Sonic. So he turns to try and jab Sonic but that leaves him back open to Mega Man and he gets taken out.

The final guy with the super soakers sees this, realizes he can’t win, and tries to run away… and then Proto Man just fucking merks him.

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I wouldn’t even be surprised if he had no thoughts about this afterward. That’s done. Moving on, he says.

Mega Man thanks Tails for the new weapon and Tails thanks Mega Man, exclusively, for saving him. Absolutely, well deserved.

Sonic gets his whities in a pinch over it and Tails does this lovely ego caregiving, condescending head pat to him.

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Sonic's mood sure does shift a lot.

After this we get an explanation from Mega Man that Copy Robot and the Genesis Unit there were old robots that weren’t supposed to be back because their I.C. Chips were destroyed. Replicating them is something that’s supposed to be super-duper hard so the fact that they’re just back like it ain’t no thang is super weird.

Yes, robots can die and never come back in Mega Man. Copy Robot is basically a ghost, as Sonic puts it. 

He’s gung-ho about getting back to the mission. He wants to do it fast.

We get a montage of them trying to traverse through this weird zone to get closer to the Wily Egg. This is where the level would be in the video game adaptation, for sure. We also get a scene of Sonic laughing at Mega Man for being frightened by a flame thrower which is followed by him getting his nose smashed against a block he didn’t see.

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Perfect. Lovely comeuppance. Gotta love Mega Man’s face there. And Tails is just giggling at him. It’s nice that we’re seeing them all bounce off one another like this, especially when it comes to how used to Sonic’s mannerisms Tails is so he can counteract it with a head pat and a giggle off to the side whenever things aren’t going Sonic’s way. I can only imagine Tails never used to be so brazen when he first met Sonic but spending so much time with him has made him more comfortable teasing him back. 

It all goes well until they finally reach an area where the Wily Egg is in sight. However, because they’re so close, the doctors are within sight too and that brings new enemies to fight.

Hey everyone, it’s the Roboticized Masters and they're looking pretty funky and awesome!

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I remember when these designs were first seen by everyone. I couldn’t get enough of Charmy Man there, of course, but they all look great. Vector’s design is already fantastic but man does the robot look compliment him.

Collect the whole set!

This issue marked our heroes first foray into the Skull Egg Zone. They got revenge on Copy Robot, though, Metal Sonic is still out there because he’s an actual threat. His back-up was instead provided by the Genesis Unit, a group of mooks with a name that already comes associated with Sonic by default, magically enough.

It was fine. This isn’t one of the best issues of this arc. It serves as an introductory zone for the area with enemies that are mostly negligible in the grand scheme of this crossover. We can’t just jump to them fighting the Roboticized Masters off the bat. That’s at least a Part Six thing. See you there.

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Thoughts:

-Sonic going on about the hundreds or thousands of badniks he's destroyed actually has another meaning, if you've read Mega Man. Rock is a pacifist initially, and even after agreeing to don the Mega Man upgrades to stop Wily, he still pretty much hates violence. He usually attempts to talk robots out of their wrongdoing, and at least try to resolve things peacefully first before jumping into a battle. Even in the first arc, Mega Man feels some tinge of guilt for blasting down even the general robot mooks, let alone the robot masters.

So Sonic taunting and boasting about so effortlessly destroying so many robots is already just a red flag in Mega Man's eyes, and also isn't too dissimilar to how Wily's robot masters such as Quick Man tend to be so quick to fighting and have zero issues destroying other robots.

-This is me speculating, of course, but part of me can buy Mega Man was pulling his punches a little - as I said, unlike Sonic, who acts without thinking and has no issues attacking robots, Mega Man is a pacifist by nature, and tends to think more during his fights. I do think it's odd however that they don't actually show that here. Like, even without his special weapons, I'd expect Rock to think to use the environment around him to his advantage before Sonic would - or even take Sonic's speed into account and start placing shots where he thinks Sonic's going to run, and such.

But hey, I guess a punch to the face does that just as well. People really do like punching Sonic in the face in this comic.

-If nothing else, I do like that Mega Man was the one to catch on about Sonic's ego and use that against him. If anything, Sonic and Quick Man are pretty similar in that regard, so it does make a fair amount of sense.

-The situation between Light and Proto Man is...pretty complicated. Again, they're on speaking terms, which is a lot better than what we had in the present of the Mega Man comics at the time, but you can tell Proto Man still has deep-rooted guilt. 

-Shadow not being here actually predicts that he actually totally for realsies dies in Worlds Unite 👀

-Not gonna lie, after seeing Sonic act like such a smartass, it's pretty damn satisfying to see it put back on him. I'm pretty sure that one single image of Mega Man chugging that E-Tank casually while a robo-cat kicks Sonic's ass just completely invalidates all of Sonic's bullcrap from the previous fight.

-Tbf, at least the flying line is better than "ThEy fLy nOw?!?!?!!?" 

-I think it's pretty funny that the whole talking bit kind of relies on the fact that Sonic is such a headstrong character that he wouldn't listen. Wily's gone through enough rodeos to know Mega Man initially goes through with trying to talk his opponents down. Eggman knows that Sonic's such an cocky daredevil that he'd be gun-ho and want to fight without questioning it. It makes the match-up make a lot more sense here, they're exploiting where the characters differ to ensure that the fight would happen at least for a good measure of time. I'm sure they're surprised because Sonic began jumping to talking a lot sooner than Eggman expected.

-I really love how in their attempts to shut down Sonic and Mega Man talking things out and figure things out...they just proceeded to sick Tails Man on them and give undeniable proof that they were the ones behind the whole thing. Also, grumpy Mega Man is fun.

-A random detail to mention, that Team Sonic variant remains the only variant cover I have in the entirety of my Archie Sonic collection. As I mentioned, Worlds Collide was the first time I picked up physical issues because I finally found a comic shop here that could get them. But they were also incredibly unreliable, didn't bother getting me all of the issues, got the issues I did get out of order, and in short - forced me to start hunting for missing issues. Part 5 in particular being an issue at the time where I could only find the variant for a relatively cheap price on eBay. It was pretty annoying, frankly.

-I have to say, the second act art-wise is something I don't particularly like. Not because the art is bad, per say - but I don't think Tracy really got how to draw Mega Man characters. In fact, you can see that already from his initial concept art back when Archie Mega Man was getting started:

Spoiler

latest?cb=20190528180940 latest?cb=20190528180245 latest?cb=20190426064728

To be absolutely fair to Tracy, I do think as his issues go along, and especially around Issue 8, he does progressively get a hang of drawing the MM cast, and it picks up, but I find his art for Issue 5 to be really rough, with Mega Man looking way too scrawny. Not helped by that is the colouring. If/when I get around to the issues in my catch-up, I'll get into it more, but I have never liked this colouring scheme whatsoever. I didn't like it when it started up in Archie Sonic, and I don't like it here. Everything is far too bright and light. It looks a bit too neon, if that's the right word, compared to earlier issues using better varieties of lighter and darker colours. Act 2 stands out ridiculously in comparison to Act 1 and Act 3. 

-The colouring problems annoy me a lot more when it comes to Copy Robot, because the exact point he's a 1:1 copy created by a cloner scanning Mega Man's data back in the very first arc. With the harsher dark, grey, and dulled out colours, it makes it harder to buy that Sonic believed Copy Robot was Mega Man. Knocking the scarf off is one thing, but he'd need to be colour blind if Copy was this greyed out in the first act.

-I think it's pretty funny that Eggman and Wily had some chao lying around and decided to have them interact with Wily's robots to take their attributes. 

-IIRC, the surprising thing about Buster Rod G, is Sonic makes some kind of small reference to Monkey Khan, if I'm recalling correctly at least. Which was pretty dicey, given what was going on at the time.

-I honestly never noticed that small image of Copy Robot KO'd next to Tails. I always wondered why Tails Wind shredded him into nothing, as indicated by the pieces of his helmet decaying off, so I guess now I know it never happened lol.

-Vector Man. Huh, wonder where I heard that before.

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I know I might be giving Penders too much credit but do oyu think we were supposed to see King Max as being for his views? I was inspired by a YouTube comment but it had a somewhat interesting idea about how we were supposed to see his character.

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