Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Barry the Nomad]

My favorite thing about the Knuckles series were the 3 part covers. EVery three issues I'd lay them out on the floor and would take them in. I especially loved this one:

Hopefully the archives include the covers.

[Marcello]

My favorite thing about the Knuckles series were the 3 part covers. EVery three issues I'd lay them out on the floor and would take them in. I especially loved this one:

Hopefully the archives include the covers.

The Sonic Archives do at the start of each issue, so I'm sure they'll be in the KA. Maybe they'll even add them put together in the gallery in the back.

[Emerald Chaos]

Despite the fact that I've never really been keen on the idea Archie's take on Knuckles, I've also never read their series of Kuckles books, so I'll try to clean the slate and try to be unbiased.

My problem with Archie's that he doesn't seem very "Knuckles"-ish at all. He comes across as a clean slate onto which Archie's developed their own personality, even more so than Sonic.

I always liked Fleetway's Knuckles more in that he felt like an expansion of what we had, rather than them making an entirely new character. (Waits for someone to call me on that, when their version of Sonic easily stands out as the most different of all of them)

[Remynaka]

Despite the fact that I've never really been keen on the idea Archie's take on Knuckles, I've also never read their series of Kuckles books, so I'll try to clean the slate and try to be unbiased.

My problem with Archie's that he doesn't seem very "Knuckles"-ish at all. He comes across as a clean slate onto which Archie's developed their own personality, even more so than Sonic.

I always liked Fleetway's Knuckles more in that he felt like an expansion of what we had, rather than them making an entirely new character. (Waits for someone to call me on that, when their version of Sonic easily stands out as the most different of all of them)

Yeah Archie's canon is a bit odd if you're looking at if from the games point of view. I was a fan of the Knuckles books, but I had to NOT think about what sega has in their canon in order to enjoy it. It's one of those things man. The stories in those books are pretty good and at the time were alot more mature compared to the sonic stories of which they came from. I'll be honest tho, I NEVER liked the complete overdose of the history the comic made up for knuckles tho, it's just something you either take or don't.

[leemours]

@Emerald Chaos

I agree with you dude, as some who has every FLEETWAY issue the Fleetway Knuckles always seemed to me to be the closest to the game/ standalone guardian who always liked being on their own, and didnt like intruders, of course all that changed in SONIC ADVENTURE when he seemed to liek getting in on the action. However I do like the Archie Knuckles as well iam being honest i loved both universes (Fleetway and Archie).

I recall Zonic saying thers loads of different Mobiuses it'd be awesome if one day in the Archie issues if they meet the Fleetway batch imagine Sonic's face when he sees SHORTFUSE THE CYBERNIK in action, or knew the Fleetway Sonic had another rival in TURBO sigh i wish the Fleetway issues didnt die, but at least the awesome dudes at S.T.C.Online are continuing the saga though

[Kuzu]

Recently mr. flynn decided to respond to a post made by a member on the BK forums about Shadow having a love interest, and I thought it was worth posting.

Sally - I wouldn't count her, but I'm mentioning her first since I know she'll come up. Her role was to be leader of the Freedom Fighters and a love interest for the main hero. She had a defining trait of her own to work from, and that's part of the reason she's one of the strongest female figures in the book.

Amy - Her character has languished for years, in comic and game canon alike, because her only defining trait is her Sonic obsession. The comics are slowly clawing their way out of that pit. The games...not so much.

Julie-Su - Let's go ahead and use the exception that proves the rule. Her motivation for liking Knuckles was weak (soultouch whyyyyyy) but she grew into her own character. Still, she treads dangerously close to being a "girl-Knuckles" in terms of characterization. She dodged the narrative bullet.

Mina - Why hello there can of worms. Shall I open you? Mina has come into her own right, but it has been much harder for her than Julie-Su. She was made specifically to create a Sally-Sonic-Mina love triangle and only received deeper motivation down the line. Even still, having grown so much, she doesn't really have a place in the main stories. She's limped along, but she hasn't done as well as JS.

Hershey - She's grown a little, but she's been double-cursed here. Introduced to give Drago's plot some wheels, then re-introduced to kill off the Geoffrey/Sally pairing, she's been nothing but arm candy. She's shown some self-reliance, which can be construed as character growth, but she doesn't have much definition. Aside from "supportive, nice spy" what is she like?

Saffron - I'll admit, I really don't have as good a handle on her character as I'd like, and that's mostly because she doesn't have much of one. Her moments of clear characterization - throughout the entire book, including my run - have been brief and sometimes inconsistent. She doesn't have a clear role in the Chaotix outside of "Charmy's girlfriend." It's something I want to get around to fixing, but with such a large cast, someone who needs so much work falls by the wayside.

My point in all this is "made-to-love" characters aren't characters. They're filler, and I find them insulting in their construction - to the readers and to the characters themselves.

[Marcello]

Pretty sure this should've been posted in the Archie Sonic thread.

Anyway, interesting. Now he has to just fix the characters instead of just talking about it. Though, I have faith in him.

Why no mention of Nicole, though? Her role has gotten bigger lately.

[sonfan1984]

Who is Saffron?

[Badnik Mechanic]

Amy - Her character has languished for years, in comic and game canon alike, because her only defining trait is her Sonic obsession. The comics are slowly clawing their way out of that pit. The games...not so much.

In comic and game canon alike?

He's obviously never read fleetway or payed much attention to the subtle characterisations that goes on in the games has he? Has he not played Sonic Battle? Had he played it then he might have commented on Amy's mother/teacher figure.

Sonic Heroes? Might have commented on her leadership qualities.

Adventure and 06. Maybe he would have made a few remarks about her being a typical 12 year old girl she's got one badass nerve to break into military compounds to rescue her friends.

Do I dare bring her actions in Sonic Riders 2? Or will I get shot down for daring to suggest people look at that spinoff?

[Diogenes]

I'm not familiar enough with the comics to comment on the specifics, but I agree with his main point; characters created to be "The Girlfriend" (or the boyfriend, but that's a lot rarer) are usually pretty crappy because of it. In the worst case, they're one-note characters, where that one note is their devotion to/interest in another character. And that's a deep pit to try to climb out of.

[Sega DogTagz]

In comic and game canon alike?

He's obviously never read fleetway or payed much attention to the subtle characterisations that goes on in the games has he? Has he not played Sonic Battle? Had he played it then he might have commented on Amy's mother/teacher figure.

Sonic Heroes? Might have commented on her leadership qualities.

Adventure and 06. Maybe he would have made a few remarks about her being a typical 12 year old girl she's got one badass nerve to break into military compounds to rescue her friends.

Do I dare bring her actions in Sonic Riders 2? Or will I get shot down for daring to suggest people look at that spinoff?

All of those game examples fall into the shadow of the plotline Flynn is pointing at for Amy.

In Battle she was borderline obsessive about her motherly behavior, asserting herself as the mother of Sonic’s practice child. A new quality was introduced, and immediately linked to her obsession with Sonic.

Heroes had her leading a squad with her sole interest in the idea of pursuing Sonic for the purpose of cornering him into marriage. Leadership ability introduced, and immediately linked with her obsession with Sonic. (I don’t consider leading Big and Cream leadership…. But whatever).

She didn’t do anything particularly special in Riders 2 to my knowledge, but I can say that any strides she made in that title were more than made up for by how far she fell in that games sequel.

A good deal of Adventure and 06 involve her escapades due to her one track mind. You can certainly cherry pick a few moments here and there on the strong points of her character, but you can't deny that Flynn has a point. Between gushing over Sonic (or getting kidnapped) Amy’s character has not evolved nearly as far as it should have beyond its original interpretation of fangirl. Her evolution as a character in the games is often tied to her feelings for Sonic, which holds her back a bit.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Sega DogTagz

[c227]

Why no mention of Nicole, though? Her role has gotten bigger lately.

Because he was origionally responding to talk about how some of the girl characters were only made to be love interests.

This is kind of out of context.....

[Badnik Mechanic]

In Battle she was borderline obsessive about her motherly behavior, asserting herself as the mother of Sonic’s practice child. A new quality was introduced, and immediately linked to her obsession with Sonic.

If that were the case, then it would have been rejected by... gizt...thing. But he accepts it and he sees her as 'mom' he calls her it with a sense of trust and understanding, she's got to him and he loves her as a mother in turn.

Heroes had her leading a squad with her sole interest in the idea of pursuing Sonic for the purpose of cornering him into marriage.

She's already thinking about Sonic long before Cream and Big appear, she has the piece of paper with Sonic right at the start when she's sitting by the sea. It's not until she sees how sad Big and Cream are that she decides to take action.

Her forming a team is in responce to that, it is not for her own pursuits, saying 'I'm going to make Sonic marry me' is just her role in that team, but the forming of it and the actual opperation to get up and go is due to Cream and Big worrying about their friends, not because she wants to marry Sonic.

She didn’t do anything particularly special in Riders 2 to my knowledge, but I can say that any strides she made in that title were more than made up for by how far she fell in that games sequel.

She goes off on her own away from the group despite Sonic Tails and Knuckles warning her that 'it's too dangerous.' It's been a while since I've played that game, but I'm quite sure that she either goes off after Jet or finds a temple before the other 'heroes' do.

good deal of Adventure and 06 involve her escapades due to her one track mind. You can certainly cherry pick a few moments here and there on the strong points of her character,

Her entire driving force for being in the plot is for the protection of a bird, it has nothing to do with her feelings for Sonic. When she first meets Sonic she mentions nothing about how muc she fancies him, she asks him for help in protecting a bird that Zero is after. Ever mission is about her running from a robot until it attacks the bird. At that point she turns around and faces it down.

There is virtually nothing other than the line "Owww twinkle park! Cute couples get in free" that indicates her feelings towards Sonic.

If anything, adventure shows that Amy at times dislikes Sonic. When Gamma fights Sonic on the Egg carrier, Sonic is about to deliver the final blow, she stands in front of him and tells Sonic to back off.

but you can't deny that Flynn has a point. Between gushing over Sonic (or getting kidnapped) Amy’s character has not evolved nearly as far as it should have beyond its original interpretation of fangirl. Her evolution as a character in the games is often tied to her feelings for Sonic, which holds her back a bit.

I actually don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be, the only problem is that we had these things called Sonic X and Sonic heroes which came out and put the OMG I LOVE SONIC to such a high level that any small mention of "I like Sonic" usually follows with ZOMG SHE GONNA RAPE HIM! In Sonic 06 for instance, theres one scene were she hints that she likes Sonic, she doesn't even mention him by name, yet that was enough to spark people going "OH NO! SHE'S AT IT AGAIN!"

If you actually pay attention to what else is going on with her in the games, you'll see that she has evolved a lot, certainly more than a bulk of the characters in there, but the problem is mainly the fans who just can't shake the whole 'ZOMG RAPE' mindset.

[Sega DogTagz]

If that were the case, then it would have been rejected by... gizt...thing. But he accepts it and he sees her as 'mom' he calls her it with a sense of trust and understanding, she's got to him and he loves her as a mother in turn.

But the only reason Amy was interested in Emerl in the first place was because she assumed that Sonic was using him to practice being a father. The only reason Amy did anything in that game was because of Sonic. Even her frantic box-er-size routine was aimed at boosting her outward appearance for Sonic.

Yes, she was effective in a motherly role, but the game presented the quality as an extension of her crush on Sonic, rather than a trait unique to the character herself.

She's already thinking about Sonic long before Cream and Big appear, she has the piece of paper with Sonic right at the start when she's sitting by the sea. It's not until she sees how sad Big and Cream are that she decides to take action.

Her forming a team is in responce to that, it is not for her own pursuits, saying 'I'm going to make Sonic marry me' is just her role in that team, but the forming of it and the actual opperation to get up and go is due to Cream and Big worrying about their friends, not because she wants to marry Sonic.

The three were already paired off and chasing Sonic when Amy lost that sheet of paper (Cream referred to it as their "only clue"). Nonetheless, every member of that group had their own reason for pursuing Sonic, and Amy clearly had romantic interests on the brain for her's. When they first confronted Team Sonic, her intentions were the first things voiced. She wore the pants on that squad and she had every interest on acquiring her goals first.

She goes off on her own away from the group despite Sonic Tails and Knuckles warning her that 'it's too dangerous.' It's been a while since I've played that game, but I'm quite sure that she either goes off after Jet or finds a temple before the other 'heroes' do.

I remember her finding a relic, getting chased off by Storm, getting kidnapped and then whacking Sonic on the head at the end. (ignore that... games bleed together sometimes )

If there is some endeering quality in there, I don't recall it... but it has been a while for me as well, so I may just be overlooking something.

Her entire driving force for being in the plot is for the protection of a bird, it has nothing to do with her feelings for Sonic. When she first meets Sonic she mentions nothing about how muc she fancies him, she asks him for help in protecting a bird that Zero is after. Ever mission is about her running from a robot until it attacks the bird. At that point she turns around and faces it down.

There is virtually nothing other than the line "Owww twinkle park! Cute couples get in free" that indicates her feelings towards Sonic.

If anything, adventure shows that Amy at times dislikes Sonic. When Gamma fights Sonic on the Egg carrier, Sonic is about to deliver the final blow, she stands in front of him and tells Sonic to back off.

I actually don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be, the only problem is that we had these things called Sonic X and Sonic heroes which came out and put the OMG I LOVE SONIC to such a high level that any small mention of "I like Sonic" usually follows with ZOMG SHE GONNA RAPE HIM! In Sonic 06 for instance, theres one scene were she hints that she likes Sonic, she doesn't even mention him by name, yet that was enough to spark people going "OH NO! SHE'S AT IT AGAIN!"

If you actually pay attention to what else is going on with her in the games, you'll see that she has evolved a lot, certainly more than a bulk of the characters in there, but the problem is mainly the fans who just can't shake the whole 'ZOMG RAPE' mindset.

I'll give you Adventure as it was a high point for the character. 06 however will not get the same treatment.

Her interaction with Sonic was slim in that game, but 1 scene in particular stands out to me. The one in which she tells Silver that she would choose Sonic over the world. I get that Sonic is the gold standard, do-no-wrong, emblem of the franchise but that wording has always bugged me. I think it represents the dependance Amy's character has on her infatuation with Sonic. Whatever events take place or whatever traits may pop up in Amy, she first has to do a bit of soul searching to see if it meshes with what Sonic would want/expect. A Character has to work from both the inside and the outside to be succsesful and over the course of the series Amy has taken way too much influence from an outside force, dictated by her infatuation. Almost all of the good development she has shown over the years is more or less in direct correlation to her passion. She hasn't evolved so much as getting more efficiant at being a stalker/fangirl.

Its also hard for me to riticule the people who jump on Amy for her RAPE behevior, becuase she has been over that line before. Heroes, Battle and Free Riders all easily rank in that catagory.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Sega DogTagz

[The Illustrious Q]

(She actually got this one right)

Edited April 5, 2011 by The Illustrious Q

[Kuzu]

(She actually got this one right)

Relevance?

[Sean]

Merged the topic with this one.

[Kuzu]

Merged the topic with this one.

PFFT, Oh Fine then(I kid)

Anywho. I'm too lazy to type something so I'll just paste what I did from another forum.

Yeah, he clearly was favoring Sally in that statement, because she's no where near as important ever since she went back on the front lines because with the likes of Sonic & Tails(And hell you could throw Amy in there too) being more than capable of handling all of the work of the Freedom Fighters, she seems redundant; Sonic's the better fighter, and Tails can be the tech dude. I think it would've worked out a lot better for her if she was more focused on building her country as a princess rather than getting out in the field as much as possible.

Never thought I'd say this about a female, but Sallly needs to get back in the Kitchen and stay there for a while.

Don't care about Julie-Su, because she's basically a Gender flipped Knuckles, with barely and relevance to the story other than being his emotional crutch.

Mina.....Ehh.

Ya know while Amy's defining trait is her crush on Sonic, its not her only trait(No matter how much Sega want you to believe it), so I kinda wish she got some focus too(No TTT doesn't count, that was more of a mash up of fights, than an actual story.)

[Badnik Zero]

Who is Saffron?

In the comics Charmy is married to a bee named Saffron. They had an arranged marriage because Charmy was royalty. It was the wedding that made Charmy run away to Angel Island and eventually join the Chaotix. Their home was destroyed by Eggman, so as a couple they're the last survivors of their hive.

[Immortheus]

SU #27 preview pages are up.

[DarkLight]

What a sick bastard Enerjak is. Beat him up good Silver!

Do I notice Enerjak's dialouge bubbles look different here?

[turbojet]

Recently mr. flynn decided to respond to a post made by a member on the BK forums about Shadow having a love interest, and I thought it was worth posting.

God, this pretty much confirms Sally isn't going to die in 225. Well, shit.

As for his comments about love interest characters, URGH!

I may bash Sally and I may show that I am anti-shipping, but fuck this statement. These "love interest" characters seem half-assed to me. And I know half-assed characters. I watched Bleach. Having a character be a love interest just for the sake of being a love interest is bullshit. These characters don't contribute shit to the story and are just filler and shipping fanservice. I've been on Amy's shit for awhile now and I hate that the writer doesn't even see his own contributions to the character. Amy doesn't come off as Sonic obsessed anymore. She comes off as a fucking leader. When Sonic was gone ro the Dragon Kingdom, Amy was holding down the fort like a fucking marine. When Blaze was in the dimension and Sonic wasn't around, Amy kicked some unholy amounts of ass and she didn't even think that much of Sonic other than the usual and expected "how do you know Sonic?" deal. Lets face it. Everytime Amy goes to battle, she comes off like a marine with a crush on the hero. Atleast she made strides into being badass. Yes, it shows some favoritism towards Sally(Fuck this squirrel).

How are you guys forgetting SA2? Sure, she did initially just want to get Sonic to marry her, but she did atleast make her way to Prison Island alone and she did convince Shadow to help the team save the world. Most of the game, she wasn't actiong like a fangirl and just legitimately wanted to be apart of the squad.

[Kuzu]

God, this pretty much confirms Sally isn't going to die in 225. Well, shit.

As for his comments about love interest characters, URGH!

I may bash Sally and I may show that I am anti-shipping, but fuck this statement. These "love interest" characters seem half-assed to me. And I know half-assed characters. I watched Bleach. Having a character be a love interest just for the sake of being a love interest is bullshit. These characters don't contribute shit to the story and are just filler and shipping fanservice. I've been on Amy's shit for awhile now and I hate that the writer doesn't even see his own contributions to the character. Amy doesn't come off as Sonic obsessed anymore. She comes off as a fucking leader. When Sonic was gone ro the Dragon Kingdom, Amy was holding down the fort like a fucking marine. When Blaze was in the dimension and Sonic wasn't around, Amy kicked some unholy amounts of ass and she didn't even think that much of Sonic other than the usual and expected "how do you know Sonic?" deal. Lets face it. Everytime Amy goes to battle, she comes off like a marine with a crush on the hero. Atleast she made strides into being badass. Yes, it shows some favoritism towards Sally(Fuck this squirrel).

How are you guys forgetting SA2? Sure, she did initially just want to get Sonic to marry her, but she did atleast make her way to Prison Island alone and she did convince Shadow to help the team save the world. Most of the game, she wasn't actiong like a fangirl and just legitimately wanted to be apart of the squad.

Its especially grating because he's acting like Sally has no flaws at all completely disregarding what she did in issue 134, and treats Amy like all she does with her screentime is fangirl over Sonic. He clearly shows favoritism towards her in every shape and form, and I can see why people get pissed off about it.

[DarkLight]

Uhhh....back to the new issue.

Is anybody thinking Enerjak will show his face in this issue?

Not that it will be suprising to some of us in all honesty.

Edited April 6, 2011 by DragonSoul

[PC the Hedgehog]

I bet part 3 will end with the reveal that he's Knuckles.

Which will surprise no one, considering both the book itself and the blogs basically said it.