Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Mangoaxe5]

Toby you're wasting your time. Besides he's already copyed and pasted this on other forums.

[upg]

In regards to the Ken Penders, we can't fully count him out yet, we'll have to really see what happens but he may actually have some leverage here

If I'm not mistaken, the situation is that Sega owns Knuckles, but the other echidna characters/storied were Ken's creations (yes they're based on Knuckles' world, but they're original characters). At the end of the day, he did create the characters he is talking about, Sega didn't create them. Sega owns Sonic & Knuckles; Ken's characters are based on that world of characters yes, but he created these new characters and their stories himself.

For example, Crush 40 sang the City Escape song. It was made for a Sonic game, and it was made about Sonic, it's a Sonic song! On the business side of things though, they get paid royalties for every use of that song. Now if Sega said "Hey guys, fuck off. Oh, and we're still using your songs" then Crush40 would have some basis for legal action. Not sure if this is how the Archie situation is but just saying.

From a fan point of view we see everything Sonic related as outright owned by Sega, but it may not be 100% the case here. What sucks though is that these situations really hurt the fans experience, we get so used to these characters and to have them ripped out of the series would kind of suck (I dropped out of the series way back, but I still remember when Julie-Su first appeared, I really liked that character)

[Badnik Mechanic]

I wonder if Ken already has written a list of excuses all lined up for this outcome? Who wants to predict what it'll be? "The judge didn't understand?" "Another younger judge would have seen it my way!" Or shall we venture into "I suspect bribery?"

[Xenos]

In regards to the Ken Penders, we can't fully count him out yet, we'll have to really see what happens but he may actually have some leverage here

If I'm not mistaken, the situation is that Sega owns Knuckles, but the other echidna characters/storied were Ken's creations (yes they're based on Knuckles' world, but they're original characters). At the end of the day, he did create the characters he is talking about, Sega didn't create them. Sega owns Sonic & Knuckles; Ken's characters are based on that world of characters yes, but he created these new characters and their stories himself.

For example, Crush 40 sang the City Escape song. It was made for a Sonic game, and it was made about Sonic, it's a Sonic song! On the business side of things though, they get paid royalties for every use of that song. Now if Sega said "Hey guys, fuck off. Oh, and we're still using your songs" then Crush40 would have some basis for legal action. Not sure if this is how the Archie situation is but just saying.

From a fan point of view we see everything Sonic related as outright owned by Sega, but it may not be 100% the case here. What sucks though is that these situations really hurt the fans experience, we get so used to these characters and to have them ripped out of the series would kind of suck (I dropped out of the series way back, but I still remember when Julie-Su first appeared, I really liked that character)

[The Tenth Doctor]

Gah.. Ultimate Spidey, I see you've seen the Bad Sonic Tumblr! That Maria is horrifying!!!!!!

It's been pushed back again eh? Yeesh, is this going to ever be solved or is Ken going to do a picture so disturbing that Archie sues him for damages?

[goku262002]

Gah.. Ultimate Spidey, I see you've seen the Bad Sonic Tumblr! That Maria is horrifying!!!!!!

To those who don't visit the blog (which you should! and you should feel bad for not doing so earlyer) hes talking about this:

Jesus maria looks like shes lost it and going to rip shadows head off!!

[Xenos]

Welp, I saw her face, then the Gif, then thought of Giygas.

I put them together and got my Siggy!

Who drew that anyhow, was it Ken Penders? Shadow looks bizarre himself, albeit less crazy.

[bwrosas]

I wonder if Ken already has written a list of excuses all lined up for this outcome? Who wants to predict what it'll be? "The judge didn't understand?" "Another younger judge would have seen it my way!" Or shall we venture into "I suspect bribery?"

Why can't you just type it?

Hello everyone, okay I know that recently I posted a near one-hour four-part video talking about an e-mail that Ian Flynn has sent to a fan at the DA website, now I will not repeat this whole e-mail or e-mails again, however I will give my thoughts on what Ian talked about in these e-mails.

1. First of all in the first e-mail he mentions the fact that this fan is reading too much into the Other M connections. He goes on to say that his webcomic was way too dark and not very Sonic like and that even though the current storyarc may be bleak and dark at the moment in the comics, that essentially it's nowhere near the grimdark, terrorism, murderist and warfare blood like tone that his webcomic was at.

I look at this and I may agree with most of what he saying. Because even though things look bad they could be a heck of a lot worse. One thing though that I don't agree on is him saying that the Other M rebels appearances in the Silver storyarc of the SU comic were cameos, honestly I find that hard to believe, because if there were just cameos then why were they there for more than one issue.

In the second e-mail he addresses Other M again and agrees that the similarity was more than conscious choice. So in other words he agrees that are indeed some similarities to his web comic.

2. As far as Sally goes with her being turned into a robot, originally that was to occur in the 225th anniversary issue, but was held back when it was decided that they would do Genesis instead. He does say this cliffhanger with Sally being shot off panel that got everyone talking, he says that it wasn't just her being shot in the head but being shot in her everything, in other words being brutally blown away, I guess you could probably say that the way he's describing it is to look at some of the most horrific and bloodiest wartime or war related movie deaths in cinerma, that's how I think he's describing what happened to her off panel at the end of 225.

This I may have to agree with and I'm sure others would as well, however some fans like GameBoySage would probably disagree with this whole scenario despite when Sally being turned into a robot or die was to occur. For you see fans like GB feel that was the biggest mistake ever made in the comic and believe that there could have been other alternatives. For example one fan by the name of LaserX5 on their DA account typed up an alternative of the 225th anniversary issue and surprisingly fans at the DA site and even at some of these message boards like that version better than the original which in my opinion is saying a lot.

3. Ian says that he wants to break the mold of the Freedom Fighters always winning or eventually winning and that he wants to take away the wet blanket if you will and to and do some different and by meaning and saying he wants to remove the wet/security blanket of everyone will be okay in the end again goes back to him saying he was to break the mold that apparently we see in this comic on a monthly basis.

Now fans like myself, Laser and GB among many others have to disagree with that statement because it doesn't matter what comic you read whither it's X-Men, Spiderman, The Avengers, The Fantastic Four, Justice league, Superman, Batman Wonder Woman, Wildcats, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Capt. America, and Green Lantern, just to name a few of the big ones in comics, for it at times may seem bleak and dark for the heroes and characters that star in those comics or featured in those comics in the end it always turns out right and good prevails over evil and sometimes when the final climax/battle takes place towards or in the anniversary issue, it makes even more special and just goes to prove the old saying that "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

4. The Bunnie situation was done as he puts it as a challenge for the character to see how she handles being depowered so abruptly and to further along speculation and concern he throws in a (ha ha) with the fact that Ixis isn't entirely sure how he did it.

Fans find this hard to believe and to accept, for some they feel time reversal would've made more logical sense.

Overall one thing that Ian says in this e-mail that does shine a light of hope on this for us as fans is that things wouldn't be so bleak and dark going into 250, the only question is how much darker will it get before the light occurs.

For you see, my friend at DA in one of their journals where they review the entire comic series, in their most recent and for now the final overview/review of the overall comic, my friend points out that instead of trying to make both sides happy, (that being both Sonic fanbases) that in turn his enraged both sides. Meaning that he enraged the Sally fans and supporters by turning her into a robot and the Anti-Sally fans because now a majority of the comic leading up to 250 will focus on her primarily and the Freedom Fighters attempt or Sonic's attempt to rescue her and restore her.

Now many fans like my friend at DA are giving next month's issue a judgment call, in other words if Ian does something drastic and unforgiving, then my friend and many others like them will hold off on the book and like me stay in the middle and just wait to see how it plays out.

Also Ian does come out and say, that he knows rubbeing a number (HUGE Number would be My guess) fans the wrong way with this story arc and later on he does admit that his is some fans least favorite person/writer right now and that he knows he's not going to please everyone (BOY! Is that every a fact)

Now for me honestly I believe Sally will be restored, and as crazy as this will sound perhaps one of the reasons for her being turned into a robot with perhaps after she's restored, the blue that she now sports due to the modifications that Eggman did to her that blue will become a new outfit for her, in other words fans that complain and say she's always naked with the exception of her vest and boots, I guess we'll finally get a fully clothed Princess Sally. And speaking of the modifications, as I said this in one of my videos on YouTube and all say it again who does not see the power ring that was installed in her backfiring on Eggman and giving back her free will, raise your hand if you agree.

And that's all I'm going to say and please refer to link below :

[link]

Have a good Saturday!

--

I am a nice guy, that makes a few mistakes and loves to color, can't draw a lick, but I try, boy do I try.

[Mangoaxe5]

If I'm not mistaken, the situation is that Sega owns Knuckles, but the other echidna characters/storied were Ken's creations (yes they're based on Knuckles' world, but they're original characters). At the end of the day, he did create the characters he is talking about, Sega didn't create them. Sega owns Sonic & Knuckles; Ken's characters are based on that world of characters yes, but he created these new characters and their stories himself.

You clearly have no idea how law works on things like this. Just because a comic book writer creates something doesn't mean that the writer owns the things that he/she created. Most comic book companies have their writers sign a contract that says that the writer gives up any rights that he/she has to the things that they created.

[Marcello]

You clearly have no idea how law works on things like this. Just because a comic book writer creates something doesn't mean that the writer owns the things that he/she created. Most comic book companies have their writers sign a contract that says that the writer gives up any rights that he/she has to the things that they created.

He and others apparently signed no such contract.

[Xenos]

He and others apparently signed no such contract.

They were allowed to write their portions of the comic without a copyright contract or anything?

I find that hard to believe. [/Tails]

[Marcello]

After he said it, others from the early days confirmed it from what I remember. It could still be bullshit of course.

[Mangoaxe5]

He and others apparently signed no such contract.

So they say, however last year Archie produced two documents with Penders signature. Also Archie will sue anyone at the drop of a hat. So I really can't see them forgetting to have the Sonic writers sign a contract. Edited January 29, 2012 by Rima Touya

[Yong]

Wait wait wait

"...but going to bat in defense of Penders’ side are veteran Sonic comics alumni like Scott Shaw, Justin Gabrie, Karl Bollers, and Jim Valentino, among others."

Why the hell are they defending that idiot?

[Xenos]

Wait wait wait

Why the hell are they defending that idiot?

In their viewpoint I'd say they probably have "Rights" to own their creations. Regardless of Copyright.

[VO.SUPER]

You know, with all these pictures of off model and silly moments of the Archie comic, I'd actually like to see some of the best drawings since I don't own the comic. I mean, it's a once a month comic with ranging artists, not all of them can have bad images.

[Chaos Warp]

You know, with all these pictures of off model and silly moments of the Archie comic, I'd actually like to see some of the best drawings since I don't own the comic. I mean, it's a once a month comic with ranging artists, not all of them can have bad images.

See Ben Bates's artwork in Sonic #230.

[VO.SUPER]

See Ben Bates's artwork in Sonic #230.

I don't have that issue. Nor do I intend to jump into it without first looking at older issues.

Edit again: That works.

Edited January 30, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Chaos Warp]

I don't have that issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY7J_kiyIH0

[VO.SUPER]

Say, do you know any older issues with good artwork that weren't drawn by Ben? His artwork always seems the best, but I'd actually like to know if that one older artist (can't remember his name) who drew for a lot of Ken's has any good drawings.

[Chaos Warp]

Say, do you know any older issues with good artwork that weren't drawn by Ben? His artwork always seems the best, but I'd actually like to know if that one older artist (can't remember his name) who drew for a lot of Ken's has any good drawings.

Not that I know of, but some older artists that were good were Tracy Yardly (Who is still doing art for the book now), who started around the 160's I believe. Granted, he was not as good when he started, but he was still pretty good IMO.

[PC the Hedgehog]

Say, do you know any older issues with good artwork that weren't drawn by Ben? His artwork always seems the best, but I'd actually like to know if that one older artist (can't remember his name) who drew for a lot of Ken's has any good drawings.

The artist who drew for a lot of Ken's stories? Well, you have several to choose from. There's Manny Galan, who drew the majority of the Knuckles series. Then we have artists like Steven Butler and Dawn Best who drew a great deal of Knuckles stories after his comic was canceled. Art Mawhinney penciled a fair number of Ken's stories, as well.

[Mangoaxe5]

My review of issue 233.

Interesting issue. I don't know how I feel about the Geoffrey retcon. It makes sense but it's still a big change for the character.

When Geoffrey was first induced into the comic he was a secret agent who relies on his gadgets. Making him into a Ixis wizard still seems kind of weird.

Question are we suppose to feel bad for Geoffrey(the guy did lose the love of his life)? Or are we suppose to agree with Sonic's view point that Geoffrey escaping punishment is a bad thing. You would think that after just losing Sally to the roboticizer that Sonic would feel a little bad for Geoffrey.

Story: This issue is not a good jumping on point for new readers due to all the call-backs to older stories. This is an issue thats more for the hardcore Archie Sonic fans. I think that Ian did a good job trying to connect the story elements in Geoffrey's story.

Art: I think that Butler did a great job as always. The hair on Geoffrey's face was a nice touch.

Heart: I couldn't help but feel kind of sorry for Geoffrey.

8/10

Back-up story From The Shadows:

This was an ok story but it's mostly set-up for next months story. I'm still not sold on the idea of bringing back Harvey Who. I still think that he's best left forgotten but maybe Ian will prove me wrong.

Art: Once again Even Stanley does the art, and once again she does a great job. I like the Harvey Who redesign. She also did a great job on the Acorn family as well.

Heart: It's really sad to see the Acorn family like this.

Max has seen better days. Alicia looks really tired. All in all it's really sad.

I give the back-up story a 6/10. It's mostly just set up for next month so I don't feel right giving it a higher rating.

[goku262002]

5 Page preview of 233 is up.

[Echidna Adventurer CC14]

It's summary time!

1.The issue begins with Sonic and Tails surveying the crashed Battle Fortress.

2.They discover that the Armada is simply cutting their losses and evacuating the crash victims, which most likely means that they won't bother Mobotropolis again for a while.

3.Sonic is relieved that they can finally catch a break, but the two are quickly confronted by two BBA soldiers who accuse them of being Mobian spies.

4."I'll take the one with the beak. You take the one with the feathers."

5."It's a good thing we've been doing this for so long..."

6.Sonic and Tails spin into the soldiers' transport pods, destroying them.

7."...otherwise, I wouldn't have known WHAT you were talking about."

8.Sonic compliments Tails on his finesse in handling the feathered pests and they speed off to attend Geoffrey's trial.

9.At the trail, Hip and Hop (The Roos from the Sonic Spinball adaptation and post-Mecha Madness) call the court to order and begin Geoffrey's case.

10.Antoine prosecutes the trial while Geoffrey defends himself.

11.Antoine asks Geoffrey how he pleads.

12."Not guilty."

13.Antoine asks Geoffrey if he served in the rebel underground and secret service under King Acorn and if he recently assisted Naugus in the taking of the throne. Geoffrey says "yes" to both.

14."Zen ze case is shut-and-opened! You are guilty!"

15.Geoffrey denies his claim and says that Naugus has been the true king for years and that he had served him long before he worked with King Acorn.

16.Antoine then asks Geoffrey to fill in the court of how he came to work for anyone.

17.Geoffrey begins his origin story in the Great War, where he was going through his father's belongings after he was killed by overlanders.

18.Among his father's remaining possessions was an artifact of Ixis, which suddenly began to speak to him.

19.The voice from the artifact called out his father's name, but Geoffrey told it that his father is gone and that he's his son.

20."Ahh! Geoffrey! You poor boy. This is Ixis Naugus. Do you remember me?"

21."The old royal wizard...?"

22."That's right! I speak to you from another zone...! Kodos is here with me. He tells me an overlander is warlord now?"

23."Yes."

24."The very race who started this war and...I'll bet they killed your father, didn't they?"

25."YES. I hate them! All of them!"

26."Listen to me--the new warlord, this overlander, can't be trusted. The kingdom is in danger. Only I can set it right. It's good you found my artifact, for I need someone to prepare for my return."

27."You mean...me? But shouldn't we warn the king first?"

28."The king is an overlander-loving fool. His trust in them is what led to war. You however...are young and full of potential. YOU understand that the overlanders are dangerous. I will guide you. Trust me. Together, we will save the kingdom."

29."...Okay. What should I do first?"

30.Geoffrey then goes on to tell of how he gathered plans and manuals from his father and other generals to train by and prepare for Naugus' return.

31.After Robotnik turned on the kingdom and conquered the city, Geoffrey headed west.

32.By day Geoffrey trained by his father's manuals and by night he learned Ixis wind magic, but only when the Zone of Silence wasn't disrupting the messages from Naugus.

33.Soon, Naugus contacted Geoffrey and told him that he had found King Acorn and that he had "realized his mistake" and sworn his fealty to him. He commands Geoffrey to prepare for his return.

34.Geoffrey found recruits for his rebel underground by consulting the materials he had gathered to train with and soon, met Sally and linked up with the Knothole Freedom Fighters.

35.Antoine asks why Geoffrey helped to rescue the King from the Zone of Silence if he was an Ixis.

36."The Zone was falling apart around us. I did what I could to stabilize the Zone and save my master. Besides, Max had already sworn the crown to Naugus. I didn't realize he would be so...addled.

37.Antoine then asks Geoffrey why he didn't side with Naugus after he and his minions were freed from the Zone of Silence by the probe.

38."Because my master is about as subtle as a brick. Before I sabotaged the probe, I told him coming on too strong wouldn't go over well. I kept up the charade so I could salvage the situation, and he allowed me to continue my tactic while he did his thing. And anyway, I was right to do so. Max confirmed Naugus' claim, but Sally refused to accept it. Things only deteriorated from there. Then Sonic and Tails chased Naugus off to the southern tundra and he got sealed in the Zone of Silence again. So I set about building a stronger kingdom for him to return to."

39.Sonic and Tails fistbump.

40."You also handpicked ze roster for your new secret service."

41."Right...what of it?"

42."Two former Badniks, an unknown agent from Angel Island, a foreign Freedom Fighter, and ze woman responsible for nearly killing Princess Sally. Any one of them could have been easily framed for actions against ze kingdom due to their pasts of unknown statuses!"

43."Heh. Pretty devious. But knowing Valdez from my time abroad, I doubt it'd have been easy to pin anything on that Shinobi clan spy."

44."Oh? And yet he was ze only one roboticized. CONVENIENT, huh?"

45."He was a good man. And he fell while protecting the people. Don't belittle HIS sacrifice by blaming ME!"

46.Antoine then accuses Geoffrey of trying to undermine the royal family when he became Elias' advisor and terminated Sonic's knighthood before driving Elias from the throne.

47.Geoffrey says that the kingdom grew into something respectable after that and everything he did benefitted the true king.

48."With all due respect, the authority of the prince and princess was never legitimate. But--their image kept the kingdom under control."

49."And your marriage to Hershey Cat was all a part of ze ruse, zen? She was another pawn in your little game?"

50.Geoffrey loses his cool and fills with rage.

51."Don't you DARE belittle her, you pompous--!"

52.Hip and Hop call order and command Geoffrey to control himself. He calms down.

53."Of...of course. But you have to understand, she saved me when I was at my lowest. My team had been destroyed. Naugus had gone silent. I guess he was busy fusing the Zone of Silence and the Void. I had failed my missions for my master AND as a secret agent. Hershey had been my best student. She learned everything I had to teach about being a secret agent. And then she taught me. How to love. How to live...for more than the mission. She was my partner--in life as well as in the field. We were married at gunpoint, and it somehow felt...right. She...was my equal. She was my...everything. I felt...free, like I suddenly had a new direction in life.

54."...and what happened to her?"

55."With just the two of us left, we had to split up. I spent time in the United Federation's territories while she followed up on activity in Soumerca. When she went silent for too long, I investigated. The Felidae eventually gave me the information I needed. She'd been living among them to spy on the local D.E.L. chapter. She...died while under cover. I investigated the scene myself. I combed the area for days. I...just couldn't find any trace of her. I had lost the only other direction in my life. I knew Naugus was free. I'd seen how close we came to losing everything to the Iron Dominion. So...I went back to complete the other purpose in my life."

56.Geoffrey wipes a tear from his eye and pleads with Hip and Hop that Naugus was the rightful ruler for years and that he's not guilty of treason.

57.Antoine, however, brings up that Naugus' rule was not recognized until a few days ago and that Geoffrey actively undermined the reign of two Acorn kings.

58.Hip and Hop talk it over and come to a decision.

59."We, the judges, are in agreement. The defendant was pretending to serve the active authority while working against it. The ends do not justify the means. We find Commander St. John...GUILTY of treason...!

60.Geoffrey falls silent as the audience cheers. Sonic is taking it especially well.

61."WOO! In your face, ya jerk!"

62.Bunnie and Elias congratulate Antoine on his victory, but Naugus interrupts the celebration.

63."*AHEM!* Court is still in session...and according to the provisional constitution, section L, paragraph 75, "The king is granted one annual pardon that does NOT require the ratification of the council!" Therefore, as king, I formally pardon the defendant. I believe justice has been served and the matter settled."

64.Sonic is confused.

65."Wait...what just happened?"

66."Antoine won the case, but Geoffrey gets off scott-free, thanks to Naugus!"

67.Bunnie holds Antoine back, who is filled with rage because of Naugus' folly.

68.Sonic and Tails head out of the civic center.

69."And today had such a promising start."

70."I hate to say it, but it looks like we can't do anything about Geoffrey and Naugus for now. We should focus on helping Nicole and rescuing Sally..."

71.Meanwhile, in the Death Egg, Eggman is finishing up his work on Mecha Sally.

72.Eggman grabs a Power Ring.

73."And with this, the modifications are complete!"

74.Snively asks him if he's so sure about this, seeing as how they're low on power and the rings are what's holding the Death Egg together.

75."Shush! This will give her the power to take on the rodent."

76.He inserts the ring into a slot on her back.

77."And with my modifications, it won't cause any pesky side effects like restoring her free will! Perfect! That rodent won't know what hit him!"

78.The main story ends.

79.In the back-up story, Elias tries to convice his mother and father to come with Meg and him to Feral Forest so they can be safe from Naugus' reign.

80.The former Queen refuses to leave King Max, who insists on staying with his kingdom.

81.Elias tries to convice her to ignore the addled minded Max and come with them anyway, but she refuses to leave her husband's side.

82.He begins to worry for them if he has to leave them behind, but Meg tries to calm him down and says that she doesn't want to lose him.

83.He says the he wants to protect her and the Acorn family and that moving back to Feral Forest wouldn't make them any safer from Naugus' reign.

84.He says that he has to do something and later, visits a mysterious hut.

85.He knocks on the door.

86."...Hello? Director Who? It's king...it's Elias Acorn. I'd like to speak with you."

87.The door opens, and an Owl's eye peers out.

88."Director? DIRECTOR? I retired from Director of the secret service when Max put that skunk in charge of things. What do you want, boy?"

89."Um, well...my father spoke highly of you. He said that, during his rule, you were always there to watch his back."

90."Hmph...did he now? Seems he's lost more of his marbles than I've heard."

91."What do you--?"

92."I TOLD him I didn't trust Kodos, but he made him warlord! I TOLD him to kick out Naugus, but he booted Morgan instead! I TOLD him not to trust that overlander, but he let Robotnik take it all over! I HAD to watch his back because he NEVER listened to me! The Prowers were right. The Acorns fumbled their reign. So you go on and run away and let Naugus have his crown. Good night."

93.He tries to shut the door, but Elias props it open with his arm.

94."You and I both know Naugus' ambitions won't end at the crown. I have to find a way to fight him without fighting the will of the people. You're the ONLY man who knows how to strike from the shadows like that. Please. Help me."

95."You're asking me to orchestrate horrible, treasonous acts against my king."

96."I'M your king. Naugus is just keeping my crown warm."

97."Now THAT'S what I wanted to hear. I'm glad you don't take after your father--you think outside the box. Now--will you TRUST me--to put things in order?"

98."Absolutely. It's why I came to you."

99."Good. You're going to continue with your plans to move away. Tonight, we'll plan on how you'll make your way back in secret. The time in between will be enough for me to recruit a team for you."

100."Wait, slow down. What team?"

101."If you're going to fight Naugus, you'll need Freedom Fighters. Secret Freedom Fighters."

102.The issue ends.

103.There's also a hilarious off-panel where Antoine gets PUN-ished.

Enjoy!