Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Dejablue]

Technically even the comic says that Sally is useless. Right before she got robotisized, Eggman was grilling her pretty bad on her lack of ability to do anything without Sonic.

[turbojet]

Technically even the comic says that Sally is useless. Right before she got robotisized, Eggman was grilling her pretty bad on her lack of ability to do anything without Sonic.

Although, now they have Eggman take tactical advice from Mecha Sally which is beyond ridiculous since he is clearly winning this war because of previous incompetence and is now losing the war because the team no longer has her handicap. Tails is allowed to actually do something. Amy is going berserk, and Sonic is leading the team and defeating Eggman through constant pressure. Something Sally never thought of because she just had to go back to Knothole and pick petals about whom to choose.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Although, now they have Eggman take tactical advice from Mecha Sally which is beyond ridiculous since he is clearly winning this war because of previous incompetence and is now losing the war because the team no longer has her handicap. Tails is allowed to actually do something. Amy is going berserk, and Sonic is leading the team and defeating Eggman through constant pressure. Something Sally never thought of because she just had to go back to Knothole and pick petals about whom to choose.

I thought he was gleening Sally for information on things such as the Wolf Pack and Felines because she was the one who got the two groups to cooperate in the first place while Eggman's co-grandmasters there were fumbling around. He kinda did the same with Orbot in which he pitted Sally against Khan while he was chasing Snively across the world.

[goku262002]

The REAL #239 preview is up thanks to IGN:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/30/sonic-the-hedgehog-super-preview

hopefully they will cover the real #42 preview too.

[Dejablue]

Romance subplots make the story suffer. It boggles me that there are people who want it to persist.

[The-Master-Board]

Romance subplots make the story suffer. It boggles me that there are people who want it to persist.

Inserting stupid crossovers like the Megaman one make the story suffer, yet it seems like the majority of people want that to happen.

Again I'm baffled by other Sonic fans. Romance can't be in a Sonic comic but inserting other games property is automatic win?

[Dejablue]

I thought the Megaman Crossover wasn't going to interfere with any current story?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I thought the Megaman Crossover wasn't going to interfere with any current story?

No, it's going to be connected based on what we're told. It's going to span Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Universe, and the Megaman comics all in one.

[Kuzu]

Inserting stupid crossovers like the Megaman one make the story suffer, yet it seems like the majority of people want that to happen.

Again I'm baffled by other Sonic fans. Romance can't be in a Sonic comic but inserting other games property is automatic win?

Maybe because Crossover's are aren't arbitrarily tacked on like the romance is, just saying.

[Mangoaxe5]

Sally never thought of because she just had to go back to Knothole and pick petals about whom to choose.

Which comic are you reading?

[The-Master-Board]

Which comic are you reading?

The imaginary one in his/her head. Don't mind the Sally hate here, apparently it's part of this threads rules or something.

Maybe because Crossover's are aren't arbitrarily tacked on like the romance is, just saying.

Who says romance is arbitrarily tacked on? Seems more like the crossover is that to me.

[TheEzekiel300]

Technically even the comic says that Sally is useless. Right before she got robotisized, Eggman was grilling her pretty bad on her lack of ability to do anything without Sonic.

Ha, that's just Eggman being his well written evil self. You have Sonamy fans claiming Sally hogs the spotlight and gets things done while Sonic looks like an idiot and then you have Sonamy fans claiming that Sally is useless, which one is it, people? Sally is not useless, Sally actually saved her best friend, Nicole from the Iron Queens control. She even shut down one of Eggmans power plants in the Genesis saga.

[Mangoaxe5]

Robotnik's speech in 225 was more about him pointing out how the Acorn family wasn't ruthless enough, and were weak and showed mercy towards their enemies. Robotnik mocks King Max for taking him in during the Great War, and he mocks Sally for letting Snively take care of him when he was insane during the Iron Dominion story arc.

[TheEzekiel300]

Although, now they have Eggman take tactical advice from Mecha Sally which is beyond ridiculous since he is clearly winning this war because of previous incompetence and is now losing the war because the team no longer has her handicap. Tails is allowed to actually do something. Amy is going berserk, and Sonic is leading the team and defeating Eggman through constant pressure. Something Sally never thought of because she just had to go back to Knothole and pick petals about whom to choose.

Why are you guys so biased against Sally? She is not useless and she isn't completely flawless either. She has proven to be useful by saving her best friend, Nicole. Just because Sally is the leader doesn't mean she does everything. Sonic fought Eggman and went on his own missions plenty of times by himself. It was Sonic who defeated Scourge while Sally plan to dog pile on him didn't work. It was Sonic who hit Iron Nicoles ground hand that grabbed Tails plain, which Sally replied, "Good work, Sonic!", And Sally didn't even tell him to do it. It's like x men. Cyclops is the leader but wolverine is still the over exposed center of attention.

It's certainly much more entertaining and interesting than seeing Sally point, shout orders, and then do nothing!

Being biased and bringing up Sally pointing, eh? What's the big deal? Sonic pointed in 238.

Got 239 today on my Birthday!

I think the Knuckles arc may have something to do with Sally post Mecha sitiuation. I just have this feeling.

bwrosas, I got to ask you. Why are you even on Sonic Stadium? You know that they are completely biased against Sally, because they want Sonamy, so they naturally hate the comics because they can't stand the thought of Sonic being with Sally.

[Komodin]

bwrosas, I got to ask you. Why are you even on Sonic Stadium? You know that they are completely biased against Sally, because they want Sonamy, so they naturally hate the comics because they can't stand the thought of Sonic being with Sally.

Assumptions... meh. How about we not go there, yuh? Just because there are people who don't like Sally, doesn't mean they ship Sonic x Amy or even like Amy at all. They... just don't like Sally. Simple.

[TheEzekiel300]

Am I the only one who was BORED TO DEATH in the last two issues of StH? Nothing about any of that was interesting, and it seemed like that "clothes = queen" thing was made up at the last second.

Of course anyone would be bored, because Steven Butler's artwork is straight boring. It's to realistic like with Archie cast. and it makes them feel like they don't be long in Sonic's world. I always get a bland feeling when ever he draws for the comic. The comic probably would have been interesting if it had not been for Ken Penders and his stupid law suite for Hershey the cat, who would have been an interesting point in the story. 239 was pretty good to me though. 8 out of 10.

http://anti-archie-s...sucks-314085429 Written by

OK, I'm doing this again. Why? Why the hell not? I like ranting, people like reading rants, since they can be entertaining, so yeah, I'm going to go nuts.

First topic: Milestones.

I'm going to say it now. I hate milestone issues. I don't mind them for the actual anniversaries, like Genesis being used to celebrate Sonic's 20th birthday, but in terms of having major events always happening every 25 issues, it's normally a case of another shock value story on the 5s, and Sonic curb stomping Robotnik as in any other issue on the 0s. As such, they become predictable and boring.

One of the things I love about SatFF is that due to the way we write, we can't do milestones, since if we tried, they'd probably end up being in the wrong part. It means that the plot progresses in a logical fashion, and the characters aren't just waiting for no good reason to act.

This was one of the problems that appeared in the Captain N TV show. The powers that Kevin had been given meant that he could have killed Mother Brain (Yes, that Mother Brain, for those that don't know) any time he wanted, warping in, stopping time, and shooting the bitch, and he even tried several times, but they had to stall it out so the show could keep running. The problem that we have is that the hero is holding off on acting so that major events don't happen too early.

For example, as pointed out, Sonic could have captured Mecha Sally by now. In fact, the moment he got thrown off the Death Egg, any other version of Sonic, be it SEGA, STC, SatAM, AoSTH, or even everyone's favorite cardboard cutout, Sonic X, would have grabbed one of the FF air boards and flown back up to rescue her. But no, Tails and Amy suddenly became blubbering wrecks, so he had to stop and take care of the. And then what? Oh yeah, he had to go and watch Geoff's trial. More on that later.

This is called padding, and this comic has a lot of it.

It happens again in 238. Sonic could easily save everyone, but Tails lets Mecha Sally go because someone might get hurt during the launch of the Death Egg. In other words: Tails lets Mecha Sally go because if he didn't the plot would be resolved. Oh, and I'd like to point out that this is the same robot that had no trouble with Omega, yet she can't beat Sonic or Tails. Guess that plot amour is really strong stuff.

What does this have to do with milestones? Well, it's been long suspected that Sally would be staying as she is until 250, in other words, 20 issues as a robot. Look, when we complained that Iron Nicole wasn't around long enough, this isn't what we meant, Flynn. Six issues would have been fine. Indeed, most arcs in this comic are six issues, and this is a perfectly reasonable length for one. And the last time he tried to do a big, long arc, a lot of fans started to call bullshit. And look, it's another big, long arc, and many more fans are starting to call bullshit. The obvious solution is this: Don't do long arcs, we just start to bitch about them.

In fact, the arc that Flynn is clearly trying to top, Endgame (In other words, Ken Penders at his best), was only four issues long. And yet, people remember it even now. It raised the stakes, things looked bad for Sonic, things looked really bad for Sally, and Robotnik died. And it was awesome.

However, Flynn seemed to be trying to stretch Mecha Sally's arc out to 250. However, as said, the shock value of Mecha Sally has worn off. You see, due to the 'world tour' crap going on at the moment (The FF World Tour arc in SSZ was much better), a lot of old supporting characters are encountering Mecha Sally. And every time it happens, they are shocked. In fact, Mecha Sally is a two-trick horse.

Trick 1: She shows herself to a supporting character, and they are shocked.

Trick 2: She claims that Sonic, Tails, and Amy will not attack her because she is in the body of their friend, and is then shocked when they attack her anyway.

Both of these have gotten old already, and the idea of seeing them stretch out to 250 is painful. This arc is already suffering from Seasonal Rot more than the Johto and Sinnoh arcs of the Pokemon Anime did.

Thankfully it doesn't seem like that will happen. Why? Well, first, the big milestone event for 250 is... a crossover with Megaman. Considering that it's Capcom's character, I'm expecting Megaman's half to be canceled, or the comic to have unnecessary levels of DLC. Joking aside, something like Sally's deroboticization is going to be a major plot point, so will probably have an issue to itself.

Evidence seems to suggest that this will be coming in or around 242. This would make it a full year since her roboticization. Now, Mecha Sally's next mission is to kill her brother, who is part of the Secret Freedom Fighters (Who seem to be wearing really conspicuous glow-in-the-dark uniforms, nice job at being secret, guys), who are chasing Naugus. You know, the same guy who can turn Bunnie's completely mechanical limbs, which are filled with weapon parts into perfectly ordinary organic ones? So let's see about this.

I'm guessing that the Secret FF arc will end on a cliffhanger, with Mecha Sally arriving to kill Elias. The ensuing fight will happen in the main comic, because that's where it should be. During the fight, Mecha Sally will be hit by Naugus' powers of plot convenience, and reverted to normal, just like I said back in State of the Sonic Comics. And if that doesn't happen, she will at least be freed from Robotnik's control.

Second topic: Sonic is a Dick.

OK, so my friend has said that he hates the STC version of Sonic, because the STC version of Sonic is a dick. This is true, but it is actually explained that STC Sonic is a dick because he doesn't take emotional stuff well, and responds to such things as Porker leaving the FF by getting pissed off, because he doesn't know how to express his opinion otherwise. And seriously, the guy has SuperSonic in his head, cut him some slack.

So yeah, STC Sonic is a prick, but Archie Sonic is, in my opinion, even worse.

For example, in issue 178, he catches Rosemary breaking Amadeus out of jail, and tells them that, despite them being Tails' parents, whom the kid has been longing to rescue since forever, that Tails will take his side because Sonic means more to him, What a prick. Thankfully, as he says this, Tails is right behind him, and proceeds to punch the douchebag in the face.

But the dethroning moment of suck hits in Geoff's trial. Geoff's trial is a joke anyway. What was Kranix's line from Transformers?

"Spare me this mockery of justice!"

Yeah, that's the one. You see, Geoff is being tried for betraying the king and putting a maniacal villain in power... by the same maniacal villain that he just put in power. You can see where this is going.

In any case, at one point, Geoff recounts his version of the events surrounding Hershey's disappearance (Flynn has effectively confirmed that he intends to bring her back, so credit where it's due), and breaks down as he tells the story of what he thinks is his wife's death. Pretty sad moment, right? Anyone with a heart would feel sorry for him, right? Right. But not Sonic the Hedgehog. The moment Geoff is given the guilty verdict (And is pardoned seconds later, told you nothing would come of it), he stands up and starts cheering. Congratulations, Flynn, you just made me want to kick the hero in the balls! If anything, considering the recent events on the Death Egg, Sonic should feel sympathy for Geoff, considering Sally's current state. But no, Sonic is apparently an unfeeling douchebag.

Seriously, they made STC Sonic look like a boy scout.

Third topic: Hypocrisy everywhere!

I've managed to work out why Flynn fans don't mind all the hypocritical bullshit in the comic. It's because they themselves say hypocritical things a lot. Mainly praising Flynn for doing the same things that they ranted at Penders and Bollers for doing.

For example, many of them complained about the Sonic/Fiona/Tails love triangle, yet praised the Sonic/Sally/Ken love triangle, despite the fact that yes, at the time, Sonic was a player, and yes, it's established that Tails loved Fiona, whereas, as one of my fellow ranters said, to make Flynn's love triangle work, he had to turn Ken into a "Prince Charming-styled lump of pudding", which is without a doubt the best way I've heard anyone describe Ken since "Arrogant douchebag".

Fourth topic: Why don't you just shoot him?

Seriously, the end of this arc will make no logical sense. Why? Because the Freedom Fighters will let Eggman live. They are contractually obligated to do so. Let's face it, what happened to him in Redemption and Revenge was what anyone with any sense would do. He's crossed the line, and the only smart thing to do is to kill him. This is the point where I will say that they should have kept Eggman as an entity hopping between mechanical bodies. That way, Sonic and co could actually kill him, and he could still come back. The Freedom Fighters have no reason to show him mercy, and yet, I know they will.

Fifth topic: Fiona Fox, and why she is a terrible villain.

Oh yeah, that's right, I'm going there. Again. I'm going to say this: Fiona is to Flynn what Sally was to Bollers. A character that they obviously do not like, and so will be dragged down into the mud to make everyone else dislike her too.

Multiple people have already said this, but Fiona's heel turn wasn't convincing. In fact, the slap was added in as a physical way of saying "This character is evil, and you should hate her", because without it, it would seem that Fiona was tricking Scourge, and pretending to go evil Hell, even with the slap, that idea could still work. Simply say that she did it so that Tails would not follow her and screw up her chances at beating Scourge.

See, even with the slap, it's painfully easy to twist it into a situation where she's still a heroine. That's one of the reasons why it's often the backbone of my stories. It works, it allows me to write crowning moments of heartwarming, everyone seems to enjoy it, and it's easy, and quite honestly, I'm a lazy bastard. Writing a heel face turn should take time and development, and while I do normally make it develop, I can make it happen in the space of two seconds.

Fiona's motives are confusing. Or rather, her lack of a solid motive. The main reason she gave was that she was still sore over being abandoned. You know, despite forgiving him in an earlier issue, and often making out with him since 155. Also, if she's walking out on Sonic over a lack of trust, then why is she going to A) another version of the man she apparently does not trust, who is formally known as EVIL Sonic, and now known as Scourge, and C) has a track record of being a lying, cheating bastard, who is completely D) UNTRUSTWORTHY!?

On top of that, she has done a terrible job at being a villain. The one time that she doesn't have Scourge helping her, she has to go to Sonic for help. And no, Breakout doesn't count. It's not hard to get arrested. Hell, considering that she left her entire zone and helped Scourge invade it, then she's probably already on the Zone Cops' list of targets. People say that she is more memorable as a villain, but she's completely ineffectual. On the other hand, as a Freedom Fighter, she was pretty successful.

Finally, we have her character arc since 172. She's not convincing as a villain, and we're being left hanging for a heel face turn. I'm going to list the arc to prove my point.

172: Unconvincing face heel turn.

Knuxerjak: Shown being both physically and verbally abused by Scourge.

Bold New Moebius: Self confidence destroyed by Sonic, realizes that she's screwed up. Points to next appearance being the heel turn.

SU15: Heel turn teased, doesn't happen, nothing but fanservice for Fiona haters.

Breakout: Most logical choice to be left behind, since she has no powers, doesn't happen, verbally abused by Scourge, shown forming a bond with her cellmate, proving that she is still not "evil", as opposed to Scourge being an ass to everyone.

The point is, we keep being teased about a heel face turn, and it's not happening. Flynn has even said in the letters page that it is possible for Fiona to turn good again. So, here we have a character who's fall to evil was unconvincing, is still unconvincing as a villain, who has no success as a villain, and her character arc points to her becoming a hero again, or at least an anti-hero, and yet Flynn is still writing her as a villain More valid reasons why Archie Sonic sucks

This is not my writing, just to let you know

Sonic tried to fly back up and save Sally, bwrosas, but Eggman shot him down.

[TheEzekiel300]

Assumptions... meh. How about we not go there, yuh? Just because there are people who don't like Sally, doesn't mean they ship Sonic x Amy or even like Amy at all. They... just don't like Sally. Simple.

Nah, It's not that simple. Most of the time they hate Sally, and be saying stuff like, "Sally steals the spot light and Sonic needs her all the time", just because they want him with Amy. Saying stuff like, "why does Archie treat Amy bad?!" For one Archie doesn't treat Amy bad. I guess they figure Sonic not hitting on Amy or being attracted to her as him treating her bad. And Second, Sally is the main love interest not Amy and even with that Sally still doesn't steal the spot light. Everyone is getting their shine in the comics. For the game fans: Who fought Tommy Turtle, Super Sonic, Super Shadow, and Turbo Tails did not Sally. Who assisted Sonic during birthday bash? Shadow and Tails that's who, with no Sally. Who was there when Shadow found out his purpose was to honor Maria's wish by protecting Mobius, Sonic and Tails with out *gasp* Sally. Who rescued Mina Tails and Mighty from Mammoths Moguls control, Sonic that's who, with out oh my gosh, Sally. For the SaTAM fans: Ian had spot lighted the SatAM cast for 2 years straight from issues 213 through right now, and now it is the game characters turn once again, so you can't really say that Ian is biased for the game cast, you just can't. This comic is Sonic SatAM 2.0. Ian repaired Sally's character after it was ruined by Ken Penders, Karl Bollers and Mike Gallagher and of course the most important character who character was repaired is Sonic. I am glad Ian made Sonic not be a mac daddy anymore.

[Kuzu]

Who says romance is arbitrarily tacked on?

You'd be surprised.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

bwrosas, I got to ask you. Why are you even on Sonic Stadium? You know that they are completely biased against Sally, because they want Sonamy, so they naturally hate the comics because they can't stand the thought of Sonic being with Sally.

Hey, new guy. Point to us where any of us said on the Sonic Stadium message board we wanted Sonamy. I guarantee you'll find a few, but plenty of others couldn't care less; even more, you'll find plenty of people who say they actually like Sally but hate the way she's portrayed or just flat out like Sally.

This insane troll logic of hating Sally = wanting Sonamy = hate the comics you're trying to pull makes no sense. You see two or three people (or a few more, I'm just throwing out numbers here) make comments about not liking Sally and you judge the whole message board for it? For one, hardly any of us here are shippers enough to care about Sonamy in an official sense, so you can kindly drop that nonsense. And second, we've seen how they've been handling Amy, and none of us have been saying that they're doing a bad job with her. I don't know where the hell you're getting this Sonamy stuff from, but I'm pretty damn sure it isn't here, so don't even bother making assumptions.

Edited August 1, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

I'm going to tell you guys now, ignore him. He literally dedicates all of his posts to bitching about people being "biased" against Sally and "wanting Sonamy" all of the time, he's done it on the Sega Forums, and he's done it on Bumbleking too. He's just another butthurt fanboy, so about we treat him like one.

[TheEzekiel300]

Hey, new guy. Point to us where any of us said on the Sonic Stadium message board we wanted Sonamy. I guarantee you'll find a few, but plenty of others couldn't care less; even more, you'll find plenty of people who say they actually like Sally but hate the way she's portrayed or just flat out like Sally.

This insane troll logic of hating Sally = wanting Sonamy = hate the comics you're trying to pull makes no sense. You see two or three people (or a few more, I'm just throwing out numbers here) make comments about not liking Sally and you judge the whole message board for it? For one, hardly any of us here are shippers enough to care about Sonamy in an official sense, so you can kindly drop that nonsense. And second, we've seen how they've been handling Amy, and none of us have been saying that they're doing a bad job with her. I don't know where the hell you're getting this Sonamy stuff from, but I'm pretty damn sure it isn't here, so don't even bother making assumptions.

Emphasis on "Most of the Time". You guys may be the lucky few, but I have been on way too many forums were they are either shipping Amy or Mina that's why put this whole "Sally steals the spot light business" every where. I know that not every person is going to agree on something and everyone's the same way, that's just impossible. Take "MikoChan" for instance we argued back and forth about Sally, till I finally looked into her favorites and discovered that she was a SonMina fan and it explained everything on why she was so anti Sally. I am saying usually that was the case. What I am saying is it was far too many times that I found out that was the reason. I actually thought Sally did steal the spot light from Sonic thanks to all of the complaints, but once I looked back over Ian's run I found that to be false. I consider issues 160 through right now to be the only good Sonic comics maybe she was like that under Ken Penders but not now.

I'm going to tell you guys now, ignore him. He literally dedicates all of his posts to bitching about people being "biased" against Sally and "wanting Sonamy" all of the time, he's done it on the Sega Forums, and he's done it on Bumbleking too. He's just another butthurt fanboy, so about we treat him like one.

Not really, I have actually argued plenty of times with SatAM fan purist who prefer Ken Penders perverted stories over Ian Flynn's writing and who make slander hate art against Ian.-Wanting him fired and all. I slammed them with the Antoine situation when they said Ian is trying to get rid the SatAM cast. I have told some of them that this comic is called, "Sonic the Hedgehog" not "Sally Alicia Acorn" Heck, Milox" will tell you, I have argued with comic fans and game fans a like.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Got 239 today, it's ok. I can feel something big though, specifically with Tails being sworn to secrecy. Gosh, Mecha Sally just seems to run away now. I'm sure we'll get a really big fight though before she leaves.

[Debug Ring]

I got Sonic The Hedgehog 239 and SU 42. Have not read them yet so, I shall see.

[The-Master-Board]

You'd be surprised.

The only thing I'm surprised about is the maturity of fans of this comic. Romance is icky but throwing together your favourite characters from the gameshelf apparently equals automatic awesomeness?

Hey, new guy. Point to us where any of us said on the Sonic Stadium message board we wanted Sonamy. I guarantee you'll find a few, but plenty of others couldn't care less; even more, you'll find plenty of people who say they actually like Sally but hate the way she's portrayed or just flat out like Sally.

This insane troll logic of hating Sally = wanting Sonamy = hate the comics you're trying to pull makes no sense. You see two or three people (or a few more, I'm just throwing out numbers here) make comments about not liking Sally and you judge the whole message board for it? For one, hardly any of us here are shippers enough to care about Sonamy in an official sense, so you can kindly drop that nonsense. And second, we've seen how they've been handling Amy, and none of us have been saying that they're doing a bad job with her. I don't know where the hell you're getting this Sonamy stuff from, but I'm pretty damn sure it isn't here, so don't even bother making assumptions.

Well you can hardly blame "TheEzekiel300". Come onto this thread and there is way more uncalled for hate towards Sally than two or three people, don't try to downplay this.

While I will agree with you that I don't know where the Sonamy thing comes from, you can't deny this thread should basically just be renamed the "hate Sally thread" with all the bashing going on around here which none of the mods ever pick up on but as soon as somebody stand up for Sally they get browbeat like you telling "TheEzekiel300" his views are nonsense and him getting called a "butthurt fanboy". Nice little subtle insults there that will likely go missed until somebody stands up for themselves/Sally then gets a strike (looks at my profile )

Edited August 2, 2012 by The-Master-Board

[Dejablue]

The SonAmy comes from places like DeviantArt. But I don't see it here.