Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[bwrosas]

Well, the thing is, he wants those out there that show dislike for Sally to at least acknowledge her "sacrifice" in 230. As well as to basically come out and admit yea or na at being SonicAmy or not.

[Phos]

Really sounds like you're trying to draw lines in the sand for some reason.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Phos

[Dejablue]

i think there is a lot of more interesting things to talk about than people who hate Sally. yeah they exist but I don't care about em

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well you can hardly blame "TheEzekiel300". Come onto this thread and there is way more uncalled for hate towards Sally than two or three people, don't try to downplay this.

Edited August 2, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Your Vest Friend]

Dragging this quote away from the Transformed thread because it pertains more to this than the game.

Pretty sure he's owned by SEGA, don't let the rumors of him not be sway you, I mean why else would he be allowed to be used in the Archie comics which get their character usage rights from SEGA?

From what I gather, Sega is far more lax with the usage of characters in Archie than in other current media because it's not a true reflection of the franchise, As I mentioned before, Metal Knuckles and Tails Doll were rejected by Sega because they were considered to be SoA property and not Sonic Team, while they recently made their debut in the comic. Same deal with Metal Sonic 3.0 and Shard's new colouring. However, given that Fang was allowed to cameo in Generations, he at least seems to be recognised as being SoJ, even if they feel that he's a discontinued character and not part of the current image.

[Mangoaxe5]

Ok first things first that cover of Sonic with the Nike smile is worse looking in real life.

I like this issue. It's nice(and kind of weird)to see that Sonic does and can use his brain.

The Amy vs Mecha Sally fight was good, and I'm sure that there are millions of SonAmy fans out there that are overcome with joy because of this.

And I like how Robotnik programmed some very hurtful things into Mecha Sally. Just before Tails hit her she was about to say that she and Amy were never friends.

What's that? Could it be? Yes it is! It's Colonel Sommersby! Yay this issue just got better. I remember a few years ago I created a topic about Sommersby on Bumbleking so it's really cool to see him in the comic.

Leeta and Lyco still look weird. Jamal Peppers is better at drawing then then Tracy but they don't look quite right. It seems that Steven Butler is the only artist that can draw Leeta and Lyco well.

The Good:

Story

The Bad:

Leeta and Lyco look weird.

And The Ugly:

The cover

8/10

Edited August 2, 2012 by Vampfox

[bwrosas]

Ok first things first that cover of Sonic with the Nike smile is worse looking in real life.

I like this issue. It's nice(and kind of weird)to see that Sonic does and can use his brain.

The Amy vs Mecha Sally fight was good, and I'm sure that there are millions of SonAmy fans out there that are overcome with joy because of this.

And I like how Robotnik programmed some very hurtful things into Mecha Sally. Just before Tails hit her she was about to say that she and Amy were never friends.

What's that? Could it be? Yes it is! It's Colonel Sommersby! Yay this issue just got better. I remember a few years ago I created a topic about Sommersby on Bumbleking so it's really cool to see him in the comic.

Leeta and Lyco still look weird. Jamal Peppers is better at drawing then then Tracy but they don't look quite right. It seems that Steven Butler is the only artist that can draw Leeta and Lyco well.

The Good:

Story

The Bad:

Leeta and Lyco look weird.

And The Ugly:

The cover

8/10

Well at least WE NOW Know Sally didn't really say those things, Eggman programmed her to say them. (Free will and restortaion coming soon?)

[Dejablue]

"How petty do you think I am? I'm here to help my friend!"

Oh geeze, Amy your video game reputation almost proceeds you here. But your "odd" lack of violent nature towards Sonic being interested in other women in the comics helps you out.

[turbojet]

I didn't neg rep you by the way.

My problems with Archie has been stated multiple times. It ranges from Sonic's character, Sally's relationship sue-ness, Tails taking a backseat to Sally in the best bud compartment, and, most importantly, having such a well defined world and not exploring it at all. I admit. The game canon leaves much to be desired in overall plot relativity. We have Dragon Kingdom in the East, Station Square up north, the Arctic further up north, the Mystic Ruins somewhere around, Angel Island above, and the Downunda yet we always get stuck in Mobotropolis. We are expected to believe that out of all these places, Eggman finds some rinky dink village worth all this trouble. Worth having to deal with Sonic and being humiliated time and time again. The best issues in Archie in my opinion were the issues that had some relatablity to the games. "Yay. We are going to Oil Ocean!" I would like to see why in the hell did Station Square denizens thought Speed Highway was a remotely practical highway system. Man, the Ark seems like a destination that should be explored more often. I would like to see every inch of Angel and seem the vastly obscure biodomes. But no. Three fourths of the time, we get a some plot about someone attacking Mobotropolis, Sonic has to find some way to fend off the invaders, we get some obsure method to victory, and it never comes up again besides being some reference of that character stating he/she has done this before.

Straight from TV tropes.

That whole rebellion against Knothole Kingdom which was resolved by a tea party and lets not forget the Lupa and Felidae issue where she all of the sudden became the voice of all reason in an issue that was reoccurring for centuries.

Straight from the Author's mouth.

There were issues dedicated to her choice between Sonic or Monkey Khan and how she having so much trouble deciding between them. That was her inner struggle at the time. Iron Queen invasion be damned.

Sonic does things(while still owing his allegiances to morally dubious people) against his handler's wishes. While Sally has supported him, she would never be caught dead doing the action herself. Sonic gets portrayed as in the wrong for doing so while Sally always has some convenient loophole to abuse.

Remember when she broke up with Sonic for being so 'selfish' and wanting to continue the fight against Eggman? Yeah, no one else does either.

I look at her profile on TV Tropes and apparently she shares the ego and arrogance of Sonic.

I Just Want to be More Useful Than I Already Am.

How is it that Amy, who took on the Iron King and held her own after he proved to be a match for Sonic and Monkey Khan, and Tails,whose competency should be accounted for, can't lay a hand on Geof(who is a Marty Stu, but that is another story), but Sally just happens to be able to stand toe to toe with him.

Bonus points since Nicole was sent directly from the future to be of service to her.

Sonic, Tails. And bolded that last part for emphasis.

Straight from your mouth. Tails' buddy relationship with Sonic has been reduced being an informed relationship while he is just the token mechanic. Knuckles doesn't even appear frequently anymore and the times that Sonic is away from Sally and engaging with other characters are a rarity. Hell, Tails hasn't even appeared in Genesis, aka the beginning, yet!

I could go on. Really, there are a ton of traits that describe her and only her.

First off, she isn't the main character. Second, I would enjoy the damn thing if she weren't written the way she is. It may be based on the SATAM show, but that doesn't mean any character has the excuse for bad writing. I would do the same if it were Spider-man(I definitely do) or a Twilight(I hate Twilight because it is a shitty series). I dislike the character because she is poorly written. Something that has nothing to do with the actual character's being, but has more to do with how the writer handles the character in question. If Sonic was written like a douche, I'd call it out. I'd do the same in any series. It is called criticism and every Sonic fan has an opinion.

Typing while I'm reading 228

>Oh Shit it is Tails....damn weren't you on the cover of 227, the issue you didn't make an appearance in?

>>Notice the title under Sally? Courageous leader.

>Introductions and the typical Cute Tails nerdgasms.

>Yes, Eggman survived Sally. And she is supposed to be the smart one?

>Dismantling Eggman's infrastructure? Well, that sounds like a great idea except for the fact that it never works. This whole comic book has always been dismantling his infrastructure and how successful the heroes have been at doing so only for their efforts to be wasted as Eggman always assuredly comes back.

>>Yes, the plans does sound meticulous and prodding, Sonic. For once, an independent, non-aligned Sonic is making some damn sense.

>So Sally thinks Tails is incapable of doing anything of any import because he is too young while forgetting that in this setting and in this point in time, the entire crew is comprised of mostly pre-teens, one of which has super speed and another is mechanical child prodigy?

>>Now that I think about it, how old are they?

>Classic game designed Eggman is fucking sexy.

>>Don't judge me.

>Chemical Plant Zone! And it is a well-designed background for once.

>>Okay, really? Eggman had a conveniently placed lev-elevator that allowed anyone to be able to make their way through his facility? Yeah, Ian, we all know that you want Sally to be part of this adventure, but for fucks sake, try harder.

>>>Hey, guys. Since we all think Sonic Team is lazy, there probably is a secret elevator that transports you through half the stage in Sonic Generations.

>On the bright side, I am enjoying hyper active Tails. He seems to be really enjoying himself and exhibiting the very much adorable jubilation that you would expect from a child.

>Each character, save for one(guess who) has a personality. Antoine is a coward. Rotor likes to make fun of Antoine for taking everything so seriously and frequently calls him out for it. Tails is childish as well as intelligent. Sonic is rash, quick to the point, and hyper active.

>I honestly enjoy when Sonic and Tails interact with each other. It really shouldn't be a rarity.

>Tails makes this issue, really. You don't see him act this way that much anymore. Sure, Sonic Colors, he was snarky and funny, but to see him jump in danger is if he were running into a pool is absolutely adorable.

>And the useless people are in danger yet again.

>>I actually do like Antoine and Rotor so don't take it as game centrism.

>>I find it hilarious that Sally questioned Tails when it is she that needs to be saved most of time.

>Tails should speak in a loquacious manner to Sonic only for him to ask in layman's terms what he meant. Tails describing poisonous Megamuck as soup is adorable.

>Okay, Sally is an ungrateful bitch. "I could have climbed out on my own." Well, fuck you too.

>Ship teasing. Wouldn't be an Ian Flynn written tale without it.

>OOOH A CALLBACK TO THE GAMES! Tails can't fly for too long. Yay! Somewhere, some poor sap is satisfied with that detail.

>"Did the fumes get to your head?" Sometimes, I wonder Sonic.

>Flashback to 225...or is it seeing the future? Or seeing the future in some alternate timeline with different origins? I don't know anymore. I don't know.

>>Speaking of which, where the fuck is Knuckles?

>Sonic finally ditching Sally? Pinch me, I'm dreaming.

>Aww, Sally's having a bitch fit. Don't worry. The characters will excuse her behavior and it will never be brought up again.

>Now I am definitely confused. They are in Oil Ocean Zone now? How in the hell did they make it past the other five? There is no way in hell they made it past Mystic Cave Zone without the help of Sonic or Tails.

>Sonic is in Metropolis Zone now? Jesus, we didn't even see Hilltop zone dammit.

>>If I don't see Wing Fortress....

>It may be my opinion, but these issues would be a lot more enjoyable if we actually went through each stage of the main game series and actually did get to see them in all their glory and actually gotten a hardy explanation of why Eggman had them.

Go back when Sally was supposedly killed. I was fucking elated. Not because the object of my contempt was gone. I know that it wouldn't improve things much. BUT SOMETHING HAPPENED. Too many times that something significant happens that supposedly changes the landscape of the story in the comic, and nothing comes out of it or things get resolved way too easily. Or when Sonic went to Oil Ocean with Bunnie and I, for one, thought that was fun and exciting because Sonic got to interact with characters that he wouldn't normally have any dialogue with. Or when Tails Adventure happened in Sonic Universe. The series really is at his high mark compared to what it used to be. Our complaints are usually about trivial aspects that could be done away and probably would be for the better.

And notice how I am not part of any shipping war and I can recommend you some issues that I honestly enjoyed.

Sonic is obviously better than Spider-man at the moment.

Part 1

Here is a massive post explaining why I hate Sally as a character and will continue to do so until the writer stops writing her in the way that he has before(which is funny because she has not been given much character since she has been roboticized hence why all the posts are years apart). I am sick of having this come up so I will bookmark the page where this post will inevitably lie.

Note that I do not insult people who are fans of the character. Note that I don't get defensive and remain tactful to others while explaining why I dislike the character.

Edited August 2, 2012 by turbojet

[Dejablue]

I don't take a lot things TVTropes says about certain characters seriously. That place is Wikipedia on cocaine for nerds. Posts are constantly being written, re written, or deleted if it offends someone's favorite character.

[turbojet]

One giant post addressing something that makes no damn sense and the others that I actually want to engage in.

First off, romance may have been a part, and I use that word liberally, of the source material( for real, I thought you were talking about Mass Effect here), but it was nowhere near as prevalent. As VEJI pointed out, there were never huge substantial episodes of SATAM dedicated to romance and nothing but romance. It never drove character motive like the whole Sonic and Tails fight which I will bring up later. It was done in teases so drop that argument right there. And we are talking about a source that in itself a very small part of the franchise and hardly representational of the entire franchise, but since you want to bring up the "source material," something that I watched as a kid, then okay it is on. Nobody, here, wants Bunnie, Antoine, Rotor, or Uncle Chuck to be gone because they have never controlled a substantial part of the book. They serve their purpose as side characters whose interests who stay tangible for a few issues. The only person who has made such assertion is Chooch, but damn does he ever make his presence a constant reminder,right? Just because the book has gotten better about the romance,which isn't saying much because it was nothing but a highschool drama previously, doesn't mean there isn't any right to complain and just because that romantic teases of the source were there, doesn't mean that it was a substantial part of the source.

Second, character development? What character development? Sonic hasn't learned anything. He is still the same hyperactive, belligerent, blue hedgehog that he has always been, but admittedly, that has to do with Sega. Sally hasn't developed at all as opposed to merely given random, desirable traits. The only characters that has received any cognizable development in the past 300 issues including Sonic Universe and Knuckles are Rotor, Antoine, Eggman(who fucking needed it because he was derailed to Team Rocket status), and Scourge. Tails has been reduced to nothing, but the head mechanic whose status of being Sonic's best friend is nothing but an informed status. Knuckles is completely insulated from the main cast with a whole heap of characters with him. Shadow, Rouge, Omega, Amy, Blaze, and Cream are reduced to having their own mini-adventures that mean nothing to the central focus of the story. People who do have an issue with the comic complain about the lack of interaction that Sonic has with any other character which is a valid complaint. It becomes a comic book with Sonic in it which it shouldn't be.

Finally, so what if SEGA endorses it? SEGA is a corporation who is only out to make money. SEGA sees it as nothing more than promotion to sell their games. Assassin's Creed has tons of side material which was approved by Ubisoft and not the AC team that the actual creators do ignore. Sonic Team, the people who actually made the damn franchise, do not recognize the book and has gone out its way to ignore it. I also like to point out why the comic series is so successful. It is not the writing which people have taken issue with. It is the success of the games.

Look at them. Grown ass men and women loving a franchise that is targeted at little girls. They are going gaga over magical ponies. Why? Because each character is written wonderfully and each tale is logically well told. Not one pony, dragon, or whatever has some bland personality that encompasses the entire book and just doesn't fit. Young Justice is targeted at teenage boys yet that doesn't excuse Greg Weisman to write anything he damn well pleases. Point is that just because it is a children's book does not stop it from being written well nor is it a excuse for poor writing. As I love the subtle interchanging of the terms "romance stories" and "personal stories," lets differentiate between the concepts. A conceptual definition for each term. Personal stories aren't just romance. They aren't just between a male and female or any character that is romantically involved. It could have to do with family, friends, or just nemesis, and that should be enough to drive a plot. As I noted earlier, Sonic and Tails had that very unnecessary element thrown into their fight. Tails had every motivation to be against Sonic since his dad was thrown in prison by the king, whether it was just or unjust is up to interpretation, and Sonic criticized the rebellion, calling it stupid. Tails didn't and shouldn't have needed Sonic's involvement with Fiona because Tails had enough motivation and the fight already had an emotional and personal story. Yet we get tacked with the redundant element of "You stole the woman that I loved" which was the main reason or enough of a reason to make Tails attack essentially his brother and hero. It makes Tails look a petty child, Sonic look like a douche, and the writer look incredibly short sided.

Stories where Rotor went to save his family and friends from being pawns of Eggman or Bunnie fought Sonic for the freedom of a certain DEL group from the Sandblasters are great stories that didn't have to be driven by shit that is plaguing the book. Tales where Tails had to fight an entire armada of birds to save his newlywed friends from being prisoners are welcome. Quests about Sonic going on a date with Sally and nothing else like in 222 suck. Stories about Sonic, Monkey Khan, Sally, and Tails traveling to the Dragon Kingdom to convince the clans to leave the Iron Dominion only to turn into nothing but a girl vacationing to her new love interest's kingdom while her old one just obsesses over them while dismembering their enemy's alliances on the side. All of this while her kingdom is under siege and in desperate need for reinforcements.

Part 2

This is pretty much the post that justifies a lot of why I dislike the character and couldn't fit it in the previous post. Same thing, ad nausum.

You miss the point. She is a goddamn Mary Sue. The term "Mary-Sue," is a writing device deplored by serious authors because it is inherently bad in terms of literature(It is okay for video game protagonists because the player is in charge of the character).

[Dejablue]

I'd rather have a PM discussion about this. Especially in regards to ponies. The characterization of the characters is fine for a show where there is no plot, no forward moving story, no real crisis save for the Monster of the week during the season finale. Then they learn some trite lesson and instant personality reset by next episode. But I'm not going to try arguing against that show on a forum where I am sure its fans are dispersed quite thickly. But I think its incredibly unfair to compare characters from this comic to characters from a totally unrelated show. In fact I hate it when people do that. If you're going to then at least pick a cartoon/comic where characters are in a simular situation. If you can't then don't bother trying.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Dejablue

[turbojet]

I'd rather have a PM discussion about this. Especially in regards to ponies. The characterization of the characters is fine for a show where there is no plot, no forward moving story, no real crisis save for the Monster of the week during the season finale. Then they learn some trite lesson and instant personality reset by next episode. But I'm not going to try arguing against that show on a forum where I am sure its fans are dispersed quite thickly. But I think its incredibly unfair to compare characters from this comic to characters from a totally unrelated show. In fact I hate it when people do that. If you're going to then at least pick a cartoon/comic where characters are in a simular situation. If you can't then don't bother trying.

Did I not write Young Justice?

And also, watch the show before you act like you know what the show is. Acting like personality's get reset is a blatant fallacy and your comment mirrors this series than it does My Little Pony.

[Dejablue]

So you don't like lack of character development in Archie. But character reset is okay for ponies? Okay then.

Also I have watched the show. I have enough friends who love it that I end up not having a choice.

Admittedly I have not watched Young Justice.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Dejablue

[turbojet]

Okay, realize that these post are posts that I've written in past. Note the quotation of someone making a point and me dissecting it. I'm sorry, but I didn't think I had to point this out, but apparently I do. I was refuting his claim that it is okay because it was made for children. It was made for children, does not mean it can be excused for how it is written. Something that is absolutely true.

Also, note that it pertains to months ago. Scenarios change and this whole debate got started when I pointed out how useless Sally was(past tense) as a leader compared to Sonic now. I mean you did read dates before you decided to needlessly nitpick before grasping and missing the overall point, right?

And there is not character personality reset in MLP as there is really the characters tackle a completely different scenario and react towards while learning a different lesson. They learn something after each development thus they develop.Not something that can be the said about Archie Sonic(although Sonic and Tails have been developing into better characters after the whole Robot Sally fiasco).

[Dejablue]

I think I understood pretty well how your previous posts were set up. It was a massive LAP of you dissecting some other guy's posts. I've been on the internet long enough to know how that works. I didn't even say antyhing about it so why are you talking about it? I was just talking about ponies. So I didn't really care about how you laid out your previous responses. That wasn't any of my concern. I'm needlessly nitpicking? I'm just voicing my opinion on a few things you said. Oh my God. Are you trying to say that you aren't nitpicking?

But anyway, this is such a stupid conversation and I don't want to keep talking about ponies being better than Sonic the Hedgehog. Your word isn't law and neither is mine. But I disagree when you say that Tails never got character development until after Sally was robotisized. Same goes for Sonic and Amy.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Dejablue

[turbojet]

5 sentences about Ponies in all that I posted which gives me a hint that you are nit picking and not one infers that Ponies are better than Sonic. Maybe that Faust is a better writer than Penders and Flynn, but no inference was made about the former.

Saying you disagree is not really an argument other than saying you disagree. Really? What's your counterpoint? Examples? Don't see any. Oh wait, you don't need one because simply stating you disagree is enough.

Edited August 2, 2012 by turbojet

[Dejablue]

Yep it sure is. When did this become an official debate? Never. I'm just reading your post and then commenting on it. I haven't challenged you to a duel. You can say whatever you want and I'll just respond how ever I want to respond. This is an internet forum not the highschool debate team.

[Mangoaxe5]

To be fair some of the Sally fans can be just as crazy as the Sally hater's.

On deviantart there's a group of people who are bashing Ian because he made Sally get roboticized. They cry about how Ian rape their childhood. Ian actually got death threat's when 225 came out. One Sally fan was thinking of killing herself.

Personally for me as a Sally Acorn fan I don't care what people think about Sally. If someone doesn't like Sally, fine that's their opinion. My problem is when people take Sally's actions out of context. After all these years the slap is still being used out of context by Sally haters.

Personally I don't care if Sally is deroboticized though I do hope that she get's her freewill back at some point.

As a 24 year old I have a hard time getting upset at a comic book nowadays. After reading Spider-Man One More Day and the last two story arcs of Buffy Season 8, I don't think there's much that can upset me now.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You can say whatever you want and I'll just respond how ever I want to respond. This is an internet forum not the highschool debate team.

An internet forum is also made for debates, FYI. That's all a part of having a discussion.

Just so everything's clear.

[Dejablue]

That's pedantic.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

That's pedantic.

I know. Can't help it sometimes.

[Echidna Adventurer CC14]

In other news, I just got SU #43 in the mail, so I'll be accepting PM requests for spoilers.

[The Conductor]

You know, next time we go to Downunda, I would LOVE a silent, background cameo from Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, if at all possible.

[TheEzekiel300]

I admit, I have given in way too many times about trashing Amy solely on the fact that I use it on the retaliation of them saying that Sonamy is better and Sally is a Mary sue. Even though I admitted it a lot of times that Amy has gotten good development with her relationship with Sonic in the comics, I still would often give in and slam her like my argument with “Shadowxfan.” I believe I was wrong for that, but I still don’t really like game Amy. The truth is is that she is too young for him in the comics, but Ian did do a good job with her I just wouldn’t admit it often. Like in issue 172, which has no Sally, Sonic trusting Amy and Amy standing up for him was good writing. My favorite comic that Ian has ever written has to be “Treasure Team Tango” in “Sonic Universe”. That was the most fun I have ever had when reading a Sonic comic. And Amy was written pretty well in that. I can tell you right now Shadow, Knuckles, Tails, Mina and Nicole have gotten a lot of spot light in this comic. They have. Shadow appeared 3 times in 3 different arcs around before issue 200. Knuckles felt guilty as his role as EnerJack, Rouge Sonic and Julie Su tried to calm him down and cheer him up. Sonic and Tails relationship was repaired after it was wrecked by Ken Penders. Tails found his parents. It was Sonic ,Tails, Amy and Knuckles who rescued everyone after 175 not Sally. So now add all of the Sonic Universe comics with Shadow and Knuckles own arc and you can clearly see that they do get their shine in the comics. Sally does not steal the spot light. Sally isn't a Mary sue. If she was her plan to dog pile on Scourge would have worked. It was Sally who was having self pity and almost lost it when she left new mobotropolis behind and was Sonic who had to correct her when it is usually Sonic is the wreck less one. Sally isn't perfect, so she isn't a mary su.