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Toby

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Finally got the final issue of Endagered Species. Due to the circumstances, it's unfortunate that what could have been a decent story turned into a rushed subpar story with barley any conclusion and nothing really gained, oh well.

 

I didn't think the fandom's hatred for Penders could get any larger, but I think it's safe to say I've been proven wrong.

 

That was a bit of a letdown. I really wanted to find out what happened to them all. I always had this awful gut feeling there was like, a grinder or something on the other side.

 

I wonder. Was Thrash written to destroy the echidnas from the start, or did they just expand his mission into that due to the real life issues?

 

Also got the final Chaotix Arc issue, and THAT was actually pretty good. Good story, nice characterization, funny dialogue, a satisfying conclusion. Good stuff.

 

Always nice to see the moral mess that is the Sandblast region. You have to support Jack and his crew of jerks because they're fighting Eggman, and you have to fight good people because they had nowhere else to turn but Eggman. That region really shows how shades of gray Mobian politics can get.

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If it doesn't matter, why are you complaining about it?

Because I can just like how bwrosas can ramble on about nothing. Remember that thing that exists called "Free Speech"? Yeah it gets abused allot especially in this topic.

And that I think its just petty, allot of what SEGA does to this comic is petty and its proven in that quote from Ian about Metal Sonic. Theres keeping this comic on a leash so it doesn't get wild again and then theres just locking it in a cage and never letting it out to breathe.

Edited by goku262002
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And that I think its just petty, allot of what SEGA does to this comic is petty and its proven in that quote from Ian about Metal Sonic. Theres keeping this comic on a leash so it doesn't get wild again and then theres just locking it in a cage and never letting it out to breathe.

 

Yeah. While Sega's fully within its rights to impose these kinds of restrictions, it is annoying how they like to cage Sonic up in so many ways that it hampers his development as a character.

 

Really, at times I think it'd be better if Sonic wasn't Sega's mascot. They wouldn't be so overly protective of him possibly.

 

Fortunately there are ways around mandates at least. Sega probably kept them from calling Enerjak Knuckles in SU25-28, but it's pretty bloody obvious that's who he is behind all that armor.

Edited by Ogilvie Maurice
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I agree there's nothing wrong with change, or changing the status quo, but I don't see how it is shallow to list talking as a bad thing on a mute character when the fact the character was mute was one of the things I liked the most.

I call it shallow because you seemed to be calling it bad simply because it was changed. Which is why I said judge it for how it's done, not 

because it is done.

 

Also refuse your point about him needing a voice to show personality and character and free will. Famous characters of the past, from Wile E Coyote to R2-D2 to Chaplin did fine without a voice; it just means working a bit more on body language. It means instead of saying no, he can perhaps stand completely still, leading to a prompt from Eggman of "Eh, why don't you work? Are you denying?"

Did Wile E Coyote (who uses signs to communicate), R2-D2 (who actually has a voice though his beeping that's translated by other robots, so that's not a good example) or Chaplin (who I have no clue who that is), work under a master of some sort who issued them orders and commands for them to follow? Did said master not want them to have free will because of potential of becoming a nuisance as directly referenced by their creator?

 

Because last I checked, Wile E Coyote acted on his own, and there was hardly anyone else to talk to or any reason to talk to anyone to argue or confirm details. On top of that, he tended to use signs; however, did you know that he ditched the signs and had 

instead of the Road Runner?

 

And R2-D2 had total free will, but he was capable of talking. And although he only communicated with beeping, other characters like C-3P0 would translate what he was saying for the audience to understand him, especially when R2 was being rebellious.

 

There's a limit you can go with just body language alone before whatever message that's being communicated is lost. For example, how is Metal Sonic suppose to argue with Eggman over whether or not to go after Sonic instead of Shard if all he does is stand still and do nothing like he did in the comics? Because as far as I can tell, you need to speak to someone in some form in order to argue.

 

Nevermind that Metal Sonic has spoken more than a few words to other characters in previous issues (primarily Shadow during the first Sonic Universe referenced in this one and during his arc in the main series) and had to speak in order to argue differing points. 

 

Simply standing still could easily mean that Metal Sonic is glitching and not working properly, and wouldn't give the impression that he was saying no.

 

Shaking his head to say "no" is rather simple, but again how is he suppose to justify his orders when called upon them to rebel like he's did here and in the past?

 

Talking adds another dimension to character that body language doesn't fully capture. Even Wall-E, who used more body language than speech, was talking in order to get through messages that simply using body language couldn't capture.

 

Things are not binary when it comes to characterization. That's just something that should be noted.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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or Chaplin (who I have no clue who that is)

 

You don't know who Charlie Chaplin is?

 

... that's sad, man. That's sad.

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You don't know who Charlie Chaplin is?

 

... that's sad, man. That's sad.

It's sad that an American, such as myself, doesn't know anything about British comedian and actor? Do I even need to point out the problem with this?

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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Surely you'd know him as THE greatest silent film actor, regardless of nationality?

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Surely you'd know him as THE greatest silent film actor, regardless of nationality?

Considering what I just said (twice), no.

 

And I was just given half his name, so for all I know he could have been referring to someone completely different before I even bothered to look it up. But this is just going completely off topic.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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It's sad that an American, such as myself, doesn't know anything about British comedian and actor? Do I even need to point out the problem with this?

 

To be honest, that sounds a bit ignorant on your part given that he was an international legend (inspiring Mickey Mouse amongst other things). It'd be like me saying I didn't know who the Three Stooges were because I'm a Brit and they're American, it might technically be true but you'd still expect at least a passing knowledge of them even if you didn't know all the works. 

 

...Uh, to put it on topic, it's kinda like Archie and StC. Except not really. 

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To be honest, that sounds a bit ignorant on your part given that he was an international legend (inspiring Mickey Mouse amongst other things). It'd be like me saying I didn't know who the Three Stooges were because I'm a Brit and they're American, it might technically be true but you'd still expect at least a passing knowledge of them even if you didn't know all the works. 

Really? Ignorant? After already admitting twice that I didn't know anything about the guy? Gee, I thought it was something else... rolleyes.gif

 

International or not, I didn't know ANY of his works. I've already said I never knew who the guy was, and this is my third time saying this. So why the heck am I being criticized for not having even a passing knowledge on it like it's a bad thing after that admission?

 

Because now it's just becoming antagonizing to press this on.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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Not knowing Charlie Chaplin is like saying you don't know who Adolf Hitler is. He is as big an icon as Superman, Mickey Mouse and even our very own Sonic. 

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Not knowing Charlie Chaplin is like saying you don't know who Adolf Hitler is. He is as big an icon as Superman, Mickey Mouse and even our very own Sonic. 

Hey, here's a news flash that you'll be surprised to believe: not everyone knows who Superman or Mickey Mouse is. Japan doesn't even know who Sonic is, and he was created there.

 

I'm not even gonna tackle the Adolf Hitler comparison...

 

Edit: I like how after admitting "I don't know" more than 3 times that people still press on bullying someone like they're stupid for admitting their lack of knowledge on the subject.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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I promise you, 95 out of 100 people will recognise Superman and Mickey Mouse.

 

Also; the Hitler comparison was very apt.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry this is getting silly/bordering on bullying so I'ma stop.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd by Pelly

Edited by The Conductor
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...

 

Are we seriously still bringing up a topic that I told ya'll to knock off.......and coupling it with spam?!

 

Consider the fact that I'm not striking you right now to be using up the last of my good grace here, and don't let it happen again.

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Did Wile E Coyote (who uses signs to communicate), R2-D2 (who actually has a voice though his beeping that's translated by other robots, so that's not a good example) or Chaplin (who I have no clue who that is), work under a master of some sort who issued them orders and commands for them to follow? Did said master not want them to have free will because of potential of becoming a nuisance as directly referenced by their creator?

 

Because last I checked, Wile E Coyote acted on his own, and there was hardly anyone else to talk to or any reason to talk to anyone to argue or confirm details. On top of that, he tended to use signs; however, did you know that he ditched the signs and had 

instead of the Road Runner?

 

And R2-D2 had total free will, but he was capable of talking. And although he only communicated with beeping, other characters like C-3P0 would translate what he was saying for the audience to understand him, especially when R2 was being rebellious.

 

There's a limit you can go with just body language alone before whatever message that's being communicated is lost. For example, how is Metal Sonic suppose to argue with Eggman over whether or not to go after Sonic instead of Shard if all he does is stand still and do nothing like he did in the comics? Because as far as I can tell, you need to speak to someone in some form in order to argue.

 

Nevermind that Metal Sonic has spoken more than a few words to other characters in previous issues (primarily Shadow during the first Sonic Universe referenced in this one and during his arc in the main series) and had to speak in order to argue differing points. 

 

Simply standing still could easily mean that Metal Sonic is glitching and not working properly, and wouldn't give the impression that he was saying no.

 

Shaking his head to say "no" is rather simple, but again how is he suppose to justify his orders when called upon them to rebel like he's did here and in the past?

 

Talking adds another dimension to character that body language doesn't fully capture. Even Wall-E, who used more body language than speech, was talking in order to get through messages that simply using body language couldn't capture.

 

Things are not binary when it comes to characterization. That's just something that should be noted.

Skipping over the sheer dumbassery of not even having heard of Chaplin.

Yes, I know Wile E Coyote spoke in the Bugs Bunny shorts. I would like it if you wouldn't assume I'm an idiot who doesn't know his important film references. Likewise, I'm aware R2-D2 chirped (which, guess what, so did Metal Sonic- go play Sonic Adventure 2).

 

You say  how are the audience supposed to know he feels rebellious? Well I already told you how, but here's a couple more ideas:

 

EGGMAN: Go attack Shard.

[Metal Sonic whirrs, looking at Eggman with his eyes glowing intensely]

Eggman: No, you'll attack the target I want. Go attack Shard.

 

EGGMAN: Go attack Shard.

[.Metal Sonic quickly grabs Eggman by the throat, eyes glowing]

EGGMAN: Feeling rebellious, huh? You want to go attack your prime target, Sonic? Tough luck, you're attacking Shard. And you either drop me now, or

[Eggman pulls a button. Metal Sonic has a shock as he drops the scientist]

EGGMAN: Or I'll use this soft-reboot device I installed on you. Huh, wish I had one on Snively. Now, Metal Sonic, go and fight Shard, obey my orders.

 

And this is something I just thought on the spur of the moment. Ian would have had much more time.

 

You want more examples of silent characters? Go investigate a manga named Gon. No words, no sounds, just imagery, and it's all its needed.

 

That said, yes, talking can help on these cases. Something simple like in the Sonic OVA- just having him say single solitary word commands when needed. Thing is, and as Ian admitted, this is not what he's going for. He wanted to full on give him a talking personality again. And SEGA reeled him in. This will be my reference for the next time people complain SEGA only does shit on the comic.

 

It does seem to me, honestly, that YOU'RE the one being binary. You put in your hand that being silent=being boring=being bad, and so any opinion that is going against this is quickly considered stupid. Think about that.

 

Oh and also, please go educate yourself in the history of cinema instead of blaming your educational shoretcomings on your geographical location? Just admit it, "Oops, never heard of this chap before, wonder how. Let me go solve that."

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Yeah, you know what. This is just getting ridiculous, so I'm not even gonna respond such harrassment directly...

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And by such ignore the rest of the post? I was the one who was called out on being shallow, though. Odd.

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And by such ignore the rest of the post? I was the one who was called out on being shallow, though. Odd.

I don't recall calling someone a dumbass that needs to go educate himself over someone he blatantly admits he was never aware of. Nor did I insult someone by saying that they have educational shortcomings.

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Skipping over the sheer dumbassery of not even having heard of Chaplin.

Yes, I know Wile E Coyote spoke in the Bugs Bunny shorts. I would like it if you wouldn't assume I'm an idiot who doesn't know his important film references. Likewise, I'm aware R2-D2 chirped (which, guess what, so did Metal Sonic- go play Sonic Adventure 2).

 

You say  how are the audience supposed to know he feels rebellious? Well I already told you how, but here's a couple more ideas:

 

EGGMAN: Go attack Shard.

[Metal Sonic whirrs, looking at Eggman with his eyes glowing intensely]

Eggman: No, you'll attack the target I want. Go attack Shard.

 

EGGMAN: Go attack Shard.

[.Metal Sonic quickly grabs Eggman by the throat, eyes glowing]

EGGMAN: Feeling rebellious, huh? You want to go attack your prime target, Sonic? Tough luck, you're attacking Shard. And you either drop me now, or

[Eggman pulls a button. Metal Sonic has a shock as he drops the scientist]

EGGMAN: Or I'll use this soft-reboot device I installed on you. Huh, wish I had one on Snively. Now, Metal Sonic, go and fight Shard, obey my orders.

 

And this is something I just thought on the spur of the moment. Ian would have had much more time.

 

You want more examples of silent characters? Go investigate a manga named Gon. No words, no sounds, just imagery, and it's all its needed.

 

That said, yes, talking can help on these cases. Something simple like in the Sonic OVA- just having him say single solitary word commands when needed. Thing is, and as Ian admitted, this is not what he's going for. He wanted to full on give him a talking personality again. And SEGA reeled him in. This will be my reference for the next time people complain SEGA only does shit on the comic.

 

It does seem to me, honestly, that YOU'RE the one being binary. You put in your hand that being silent=being boring=being bad, and so any opinion that is going against this is quickly considered stupid. Think about that.

 

Oh and also, please go educate yourself in the history of cinema instead of blaming your educational shoretcomings on your geographical location? Just admit it, "Oops, never heard of this chap before, wonder how. Let me go solve that."

good point, however it would still get a tad bit confusing, people might think he just wanted to kill eggman, needed more clarity

Edited by Mandobardanjusik
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I got Endangered Species Part 4 yesterday and I thought it was really bad.

 

Yeah it was a bit of a letdown. I think Flynn had a really epic arc planned out and then... this happened.

 

Hence my question of whether Flynn actually intended Thrash to go down this route or he quickly rewrote his entire character to make it all fit.

 

But he's said he has plenty of plans beyond this, so it's really just a bump in the road. We can look forward to other stories at least. :)

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Metal Sonic speaking isn't unheard of, even in the context of the present games.  I thought it was pretty implicit that Metal Sonic had been CHOOSING not to speak until he absolutely had to.  Seems like SEGA's finally getting serious with him as a character instead of a boss, which has been long overdue.

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