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Archie Sonic Main Discussion


Toby

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Ugh, I give up. I love the sonic comics, but I don't love everyone wanting to fight all the time over every little stupid thing. While I think there are problems involving both sega and archie, I still like this series. When people just want to fight all the time, I constantly feel bad about wanting to be a fan in the end. When the fanbases only seem like they want to fight in the end instead of enjoying what is happening in their series, I just feel bad at times to be a part of it. I've at times in the past felt very aashamed of this fanbase for how much we fight over tiny things.

 

Look, I get it, we don't agree on everything, but I do think we are just overworrying about everything way too soon to be this mad over everything. I need to see more.

 

Kid, if you can't stand this little bit of debating you would've been jumping off the roof while being lit on fire over the legendary BAWWW GREEN EYES debate years and years ago. this is nothing but a heated debate, all arguing over the comic in good fun.

*sigh* unfortunately the only way I see the way out of this is approving 1 of the Sonic Team or Madworld writers to be on board with the Archie crew. having them on board to approve in whatever Ian was doing would pretty much auto-OK by SEGA's standards, the game writers are the world builders here whatever they say in the direction the main series story it goes. all the bullshit little nitpicks would stop thats for sure.

A man can dream...

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Kid, if you can't stand this little bit of debating you would've been jumping off the roof while being lit on fire over the legendary BAWWW GREEN EYES debate years and years ago. this is nothing but a heated debate, all arguing over the comic in good fun.

*sigh* unfortunately the only way I see the way out of this is approving 1 of the Sonic Team or Madworld writers to be on board with the Archie crew. having them on board to approve in whatever Ian was doing would pretty much auto-OK by SEGA's standards, the game writers are the world builders here whatever they say in the direction the main series story it goes. all the bullshit little nitpicks would stop thats for sure.

A man can dream...

 

1) was the green eyes thing really that bad?

2)Its good to see im not the only one who would like to see the colors writers write a story for the comics

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... how would that be any different from having the licensing managers approve the scripts? The scripts would still need to be appr- wait nevermind you've got me on ignore.

 

@Dejimon- do we even know if it was SEGA who rejected that? That said, it was a great rejection, the issue works because it's a strong showing of Bass and Metal as individuals.

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Kid, if you can't stand this little bit of debating you would've been jumping off the roof while being lit on fire over the legendary BAWWW GREEN EYES debate years and years ago. this is nothing but a heated debate, all arguing over the comic in good fun.

*sigh* unfortunately the only way I see the way out of this is approving 1 of the Sonic Team or Madworld writers to be on board with the Archie crew. having them on board to approve in whatever Ian was doing would pretty much auto-OK by SEGA's standards, the game writers are the world builders here whatever they say in the direction the main series story it goes. all the bullshit little nitpicks would stop thats for sure.

A man can dream...

 

You do relize I'm older than you yes? I'm not kid so that you know. I know all about the green eyes debate, but that didn't bother me at all. That was just silly. This doesn't really seem to be in good fun when at times it seems we are trying to just bash at times.

 

I still don't see why we need to argue over this. If it happens, it happens. I hate it alot yes and will be mad at them, but I won't come around to bash them over it. Its not like we can change anything by this. If Sega or Archie says something, it just has to happen, no matter how much people may or may not like what they do. We may have some say in things, but these are businesses. They just do it for the money rather than fan appeal. If they really listened to all the things we said, this series would be alot different most likely. There would likely be more arguing then anyway.

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... how would that be any different from having the licensing managers approve the scripts? The scripts would still need to be appr- wait nevermind you've got me on ignore.

 

@Dejimon- do we even know if it was SEGA who rejected that? That said, it was a great rejection, the issue works because it's a strong showing of Bass and Metal as individuals.

 

No we dont it could of been Capcom who said no and I agree its a godsend that it was regent i can see it work and at the same time i can see it failing

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Why is it wrong. What fucked-up moral system do you have that says "you don't get to determine what happens to your property".

It's wrong because there isn't any good reason for these changes.

 

Lets be grateful that we have some of the key elements of the comics and SEGA allows them to have originality

Sorry, but that just isn't good enough for me.

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1) was the green eyes thing really that bad?

2)Its good to see im not the only one who would like to see the colors writers write a story for the comics

1) Yes. why do you think even non-fanbase people know about it?

2) Well not necessarily write seeing as I don't want Ian replaced, but just oversee and co-write if anything. if they at least oversee then SEGA doesn't need to intervene anymore, but then again this may go the other way around as well...

 

Im mixed towards this. I get what your saying but you got to realize its their stuff SEGA is finally getting their act together with their franchise and they dont want the comics to end up like the crap it was a long time ago. Remember there were(and still are) people who believe that the sonic comic is all about romances for a good like 7 years.

The comic has had their act together now, since #186 in my book. and there are still people out there who think Sonic is Shit Gravy and still in the 2006 era, you think we grew out of that by now? or are we "still getting our act together"?

Are you basically saying that you don't think Ian can stay on track if SEGA let him have some freedoms? how crazy do you think he'd go? are we talking Penders level here?

I have more faith in Ian then that. I know if he was given more freedoms that he would be able to stay on track as a Sonic comic with game characters = main priority but also keep this comic's originality. hes a fan first, he knows what we want.

Edited by goku262002
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Of course there's no good reason if you're just going to insist the reasons don't exist. That's kind of a self-confirming conundrum there.

 

Keep bedevilling SEGA all you like, then. They're in the right and they're in the might, if it gets you livid it's your blight.

 

Ouroboros.

 

EDIT: I know you won't read it, but "He's a fan first, he knows what we want" is such a big fallacy in itself... one just needs to see the aforementioned Metal Sonic and how he never seems to grasp the character.

Edited by Albator
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It's wrong because there isn't any good reason for these changes.

 

Dude, Sonic is THEIR property. You're basically Sega is not allowed to do what they want with what is essentially their brand name.

 

Its like saying because I let a friend borrow my game, he can do whatever he wants with it because its in his possession.

Edited by Azure Yakuzu
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EDIT: I know you won't read it, but "He's a fan first, he knows what we want" is such a big fallacy in itself... one just needs to see the aforementioned Metal Sonic and how he never seems to grasp the character.

How? Even Sega couldn't grasp the character, especially given how underutilized he's been. That's an equally big fallacy on its own.

It's wrong because there isn't any good reason for these changes.

Dude, I am one of the people who was against the changes in the first place and loved the comic for how unique it was compared to the gameverse.

 

But there is a clear difference between being "wrong" and not liking the changes, and this fits in the "don't like" category as there is nothing objectively or morally wrong with having these changes happening.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonîc
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Sorry, but that just isn't good enough for me.

then what is let Archie do their own thing and probably givening us a story that is worse than green knuckles, 134, Titain tails,150-151, 25 years later, soul touch, shadow the hedgehog and sonic 06? Not saying they would do that but still. SEGA's involement isnt as bad as we think Paul Kaminski said that its more "ok this is good but how about this" and "well yeah but can we do this as well" etc.. Im not saying that I like all of SEGA's choices like not using Dr.Nega and other game characters or why they couldnt use this storyline sooner(Merlin was here) but they are doing the comic justice

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I still don't see why we need to argue over this. If it happens, it happens. I hate it alot yes and will be mad at them, but I won't come around to bash them over it. Its not like we can change anything by this. If Sega or Archie says something, it just has to happen, no matter how much people may or may not like what they do. We may have some say in things, but these are businesses. They just do it for the money rather than fan appeal. If they really listened to all the things we said, this series would be alot different most likely. There would likely be more arguing then anyway.

Why do we have to roll over like that? what kind of fanbase would we be if we just shut up and never vocalized anything?

A real boring one in my book.

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How? Even Sega couldn't grasp the character, especially given how underutilized he's been. That's an equally big fallacy on its own.

 

With one exception (Heroes), Metal has a consistent character. Silent, deadly killing machine. He's badass, or we're told so anyway, because he's just this unstopabble beast making beep boop noises and with no emotion anywhere, a mockery of Sonic with no relatability anywhere.

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Why do we have to roll over like that? what kind of fanbase would we be if we just shut up and never vocalized anything?

A real boring one in my book.

probably because when people get really vocal it just turns into blind boyfan rage like the sonic 4 drama and how people were acting with Sally being robotized *coughantiarchiesoniccough*

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Why do we have to roll over like that? what kind of fanbase would we be if we just shut up and never vocalized anything?

A real boring one in my book.

 

Believe me, I'm glad we are vocal. I just like to have a positive outlook to things if I possibly can. I feel bad enough at times to think of things I like being just thrown away is all. Sega has every right to change things, I don't deny them that. I just don't think they should have changed things the way things have been changed right now is all. I don't think it was likely the best time to do all these changes. Archie is at fault too of course, but it goes to both of them. It just  wasn't the right time or the right way to do this. If the other arcs were concluded properly, and things just didn't seem so sudden and out of the blue, I doubt many people would care as much as doing it now.

 

Character dumping is just a recipe of upsetting people as well. We all have our like as I've mentioned before. People just dont want to see what they have  grown to love be changed in a way that they don't see being a positive move. With how the stories have been in the games over the last few years, you can't really blame people for getting upset if they think the comics will soon be like that. When you look at colors and generations, the stories aren't really that fleshed out or super detailed. Unleashed was better in that regards, but people dont want the stories being thrown in the back burner and all characters being tossed aside just for sonic himself. It scares people and they have a right to be scared of this.

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It's my prerrogative to ignore said etiquette rules unless an authority, such as the mods, tell me to stop.

 

No, actually, it's not your prerogative to shit up the boards until we tell you to stop. It's your prerogative to follow the rules and social etiquette at all times for the sake of your board and your tenure here. And the obnoxious attitude you've displayed in this line of conversation on top of this kind of apathetic self-righteousness is just absurd. Here, have another strike and a suspension. I wasn't fucking around when I said strikes were to be had for this kind of stupidity.

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So, ah. I haven't followed the comics since around issue 200. The last thing I can recall is some sort of Iron Queen. Where should I pick up again to get what's going on now? Is reading the Mega Man crossover necessary?

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So, ah. I haven't followed the comics since around issue 200. The last thing I can recall is some sort of Iron Queen. Where should I pick up again to get what's going on now? Is reading the Mega Man crossover necessary?

kinda although Ian has said that at at this point issue 252 is a good time to pick up the comics

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With one exception (Heroes), Metal has a consistent character. Silent, deadly killing machine. He's badass, or we're told so anyway, because he's just this unstopabble beast making beep boop noises and with no emotion anywhere, a mockery of Sonic with no relatability anywhere.

Yet the only major game where he had such a role was Sonic CD where all he did was capture Amy and race Sonic, and he's almost been phased out until Heroes brought him back. Metal Sonic is only consistent in that he's hardly ever given a chance to do anything significant to fully define his character, and he's hardly been a bad-ass killing machine that's been unstoppable.

 

And the fact that even Heroes changed that completely discredits how consistent it's been and him being silent, let's not even get started on spin-off titles or even Generations that further shatters that consistency.

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013, start time : 5:03 PM
 
This is a review of issues 230 to 247.  As you will see in the picture provided or the link to the picture provided, I have finally opened those 17 issues that I had received in the mail, but had yet opened until yesterday.  
 
Now I will say this, as I opened and look through them, I will admit that I had an uneasy feeling when I saw Sally in her robot form, doing and saying things that were not of her character.  Now I understand that in the story, she was not in control of her actions.  But even still, I could not imagine her doing or saying those things.  But again I understand that this was all done to develop her character even more than it had ever been, as well as opened the door for other characters to grab the spotlight and run with it.
 
As far as Sally's sacrifice went. From what I saw and read, she and Nicole had basically no other option, and from how the scene was written, because she was given a second chance at life, she decided to give that back to the planet that she loves, and to her friends and family that she loves.
 
As far as her being modified, one of the things I like to look for is the tiniest detail that one might overlook.  You see for those that feel that Ian Flynn had the Doctor gut her and basically rebuild her from the ground up, let's just say that my theory on her having weaponized armor welded onto her body, I think can be backed up.  You may ask how can it be backed up?  Very simple, you see the tools that the Doctor was using, were measuring tools for her arms and her head, and from what I could see and tell, he was measuring her as if he was measuring her for an outfit or a dress.  But then it is confirmed even more,  when you look at issue 239 or 240,  there is a splash panel on top of the other pages of Sally and Amy engaging each other in a fight.  And when you look at this splash panel you see Sally's tail sticking out of her backside as if she's wearing a uniform or as I have said before armor.  Now one may ask  Well what about the laser Cannon in her head?,  again look at the littlest detail,  she had a connector connecting the laser Cannon to her brain inside, thus proving that there was no brain removal.  Another way at proving this theory correct.  Is why would  Eggman modified a power ring, if he had literally taken her apart and rebuilt her, if he was worried about a regular power ring restoring her free will, he wouldn't.
 
Now speaking of her free will, issues 237 and mostly 238 Prove to me that Ian Flynn had originally planned on climaxing this story arc at the 250th issue, because when you look at 238 and Sally's confrontation with Tails, you could see bits of Sally coming through, as she gave Tails an option that she did not have to give him if she was fully gone.  And when you look at 239 or 240, she could have easily gone to her brother's hut first and foremost, but she saved it for last and when you look at the picture/panel of her looking out the window and saying target lost, you could almost see Sally breaking through because of the possible emotion of sadness seen on her face.  Which again tells me that Ian Flynn had originally planned for Sally to regain her free will as the first step and then be restored in 250 as the final step.  But unfortunately thanks to some behind-the-scenes shenanigans, plans were altered.
 
Now I spoke earlier of characters grabbing the spotlight and running with it.  Well what surprised me and I'm sure surprised a lot of you, was the fact that we had maybe four characters that you would never have thought of getting the spotlight.  Let's take Isabella Mongoose, not only did she become the newest member of the Royal concile, but she was responsible for having that cabinet allow Nicole back into the city.  Then we have the pink wolf twins (Lyteea and Lyco) not just getting the spotlight and running with it in 237 and 238, but also in the SU arc about the secret freedom fighters as well as in 240 and 241, and then we have Erma, who in 247 was the only one that could decipher what Silver was talking about, when he revealed Sally as being the traitor.  Erma basically said that between Silver's future and their present, that the information might have been lost, and that historians in Silver's time or leading up to it, didn't know that the tratior was working  against their will or that the possibility of turning flesh and blood beings into robots even existed.  So I do give credit to Ian Flynn on not just giving characters that as many fans have pointed out needed more of the spotlight, but by giving characters we as fans never would have thought of getting the spotlight and having it given to them.
 
Now as far as the characters acting out of character, I think Ian was trying to put a bit of a reality spin on the situation.  In other words when you have so much emotional stress put on you, the last thing you need is for somebody to come out of nowhere and press the wrong emotional button that will set you off and make you act like you normally wouldn't. And that is why a lot of the characters were OOC in this story arc as some fans had pointed out and complained about.  
 
As far as Endangered Species go, in 243 you can see where Ian Flynn was going with it, but as soon as 244 came around you could also see what he had to alter due to the behind-the-scenes shenanigans that were taking place.  And if you don't believe me, there is a fan out there that posted some pics of the original draft,  picture drafts that is, of what was originally supposed to be drawn and take place.  
 
I will agree on one thing, the advertisements/adaptions based around sporting events and games could have waited or taking place at the appropriate time.  Of course I'm talking about issue 242 and Universe issue 45.  I agree those could have waited or could have been done at the appropriate times that they needed to be done.
 
And as far as Worlds Collide goes, I believe you still could have done it, but have it done either in Universe and Mega man or wait until the original story arc that was supposed to climax in 250 is/was over.
 
Now as far as the retcon goes, it seems Nicole will be the key in everyone except Sonic regaining their memories of the past timeline/past world, and it might even indicate that the events in 252 had occurred perhaps before the Endangered Species arc, which means down the line we may see certain characters returning.
 
Overall, it has been one heck of a bumpy ride that will either continue to get more bumpier as we head into Countdown to Chaos or will start to smooth out and be a smoothed and enjoyable ride from here on in.  We just have to wait and find out.
 
And that is my review that I promised when this whole story arc began, I promised a review and this is it.  Grade wise on this entire story arc, I give it a C+, because I know whither I get along with the guy or not or whither anybody else gets along with Ian or not, they have to admit that he did his damnedest. Despite the fact that there were many alterations and interruptions that had to be made and had taken place.
 
End of review.
 
Wednesday, September 4, 2013, End time : 5:48 PM

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I want to make yet another reminder in light of an incident that popped off in and out of this topic not too long ago. This thread is one of the largest on this forum, as well as one of a niche' interest. While this means staff might be a little absent from it, that in itself is not an endorsement for shit flinging and temper tantrums and personal topic derails. This is about the third time I've had to handle an issue here within the past couple of days, and my patience is gone. My original declaration continues to be relevant: Causing trouble will be grounds for immediate strikes.

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Causing trouble will be grounds for immediate strikes.

Where your line Nepenthe? I need to be clear here because todays debate about SEGA's involvement in the comic did get heated and save for Harlock it wasn't really overall bad compared to other times.

Is having a debate like today (Minus Harlock) your line? or is it what hes pulling that we shouldn't do?

So, ah. I haven't followed the comics since around issue 200. The last thing I can recall is some sort of Iron Queen. Where should I pick up again to get what's going on now? Is reading the Mega Man crossover necessary?

 

Read the cross-over. its not neccessary but fuck if it isn't awesome. start after the cross over, the Iron Queen Arc leads into the King Naugus arc which leads to...nothing.

Read the rest of Iron Queen then jump to Sonic Universe's Snively/Eggman arc to finish that arc. then move on to #252 but read all the Universe arcs, they have nothing really to do with the King Naugus or Mecha Sally arcs.

 

Well, off the topic of SEGA for a bit, let us draw our attention back to Penders briefly, where he clarifies things about his stipulations....amongst other things.

Oh god I'm afraid to click, summerize it for me plex?

 

probably because when people get really vocal it just turns into blind boyfan rage like the sonic 4 drama and how people were acting with Sally being robotized *coughantiarchiesoniccough*

I didn't even step into that Anti-Archie bullshit they did at DeviantART, thought it was mind-numbly dumb to boycott the comic over an arc that, turns out, never gets a resolution anyways. they probably think that they changed the comic or something...

Edited by goku262002
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Where your line Nepenthe? I need to be clear here because todays debate about SEGA's involvement in the comic did get heated and save for Harlock it wasn't really overall bad compared to other times.

Is having a debate like today (Minus Harlock) your line? or is it what hes pulling that we shouldn't do?

 

My latest reminder is not in relation to the argument over Sega's involvement in Archie nor Harlock's behavior; this is referring to a private matter that started from some irrelevant bickering in this topic, one I silently handled. However, doing so didn't eliminate the need for more reiteration about the expectations, as clearly this topic is still a bit of a hot spot anyway.

 

As for what constitutes "trouble:" direct name-calling and insults, grandstanding, baiting and flaming, browbeating others during arguments, deliberate dismissal of staff warnings, harassment- basically, the usual shit that will get you in trouble everywhere else on the forum.

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Say, isnt it almost time for the next cover reveal/synopsis? really curious about the final part of countdown to chaos

Also when is SU56 due?

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