Jump to content
Awoo.

Archie Sonic Main Discussion


Toby

Recommended Posts

Lavishing more attention on Amy or Bunnie would balance out the cast more, though admittedly the comic has had problems doing that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although I think you're right, I also think you're blowing up a storm for just a breeze. Sure tomboy princess is annoying, when really, tomboy and princess say nothing about Sonic and it's just cliché as they come, but I wonder if Archie really detests girly girly. They might. Most characters they came up with are tomboys.

Any time you have someone retcon Sally's girly girl persona for a tomboy for no apparent reason, there's no "might" to it. I'm only blowing a storm per se, because sexist undertones are almost always subtle in this day and age, and shedding light on the hints of it may make it come off as melodramatic, which is a bit embarassing for me to come across I admit. But look at the bigger picture and read between the lines to understand why this annoys me. "Tomboy Princess" only sells Sally. Not Sonic, or anything relative to the book because her connection to it is never mentioned. But just Sally. Take it further, and then it implies that instead of her relevence to the plot, her tomboy personality is what people need really to know about her, because tomboys apparently sell themselves, and are therefore "better". This book has been REALLY trying hard to "sell" Sally since issue 18 or so.

Still, it's Archie. We know since the beginning Sally has special treatment.

Actually in the early comics that was not the case. Again, when Ken came along that all changed.

EDIT:

To expand on what Flyboy said...Homosexuality is based on what physical sex one is attracted to. It has nothing to do with how the people one is attracted to act.

Not true. Its a bit of a gray area what it means to each individual. There are people who subscribe to the physical sex to constitute sexuality but then again that becomes problematic because There are transgendered people who consider themselves lesbians for example because despite being physically male they feel they are women inside despite their physical sex, and see themselves as lesbians if they are attracted to other women. Moreover said woman might consider herself gay if she's attracted to a transgender female who is physically male.

Edited by Viuely
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any time you have someone retcon Sally's girly girl persona for a tomboy for no apparent reason, there's no "might" to it. I'm only blowing a storm per se, because sexist undertones are almost always subtle in this day and age, and shedding light on the hints of it may make it come off as melodramatic, which is a bit embarassing for me to come across I admit. But look at the bigger picture and read between the lines to understand why this annoys me. "Tomboy Princess" only sells Sally. Not Sonic, or anything relative to the book because her connection to it is never mentioned. But just Sally. Take it further, and then it implies that instead of her relevence to the plot, her tomboy personality is what people need really to know about her, because tomboys apparently sell themselves, and are therefore "better". This book has been REALLY trying hard to "sell" Sally since issue 18 or so.

I have to agree with Red, you're blowing this out of proportion here. Also it does say princess, and that IS her connection to the book.

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly! It doesn't just call her a tomboy... "Tomboy princess" is the best of both worlds! Despite the fact that her royal status is barely even relevant most of the time, the description is still a very feminine, even girly, one. They may not be letting go of the fact that she's a tomboy, but they are also clinging equally to her princess status.

Also, I never said that Sally looks exactly like a boy. Just that she looks 'boyish'. I like her androgyny but I don't think she looks like a man at all. Just a boyish girl.

As for the insinuation that I have anything against homosexuality just because I'm offended by the idea that being attracted to tomboys makes one gay... bull. I merely find the idea that guys who like girls who are less than feminine/girly must therefore be attracted to males ridiculous and asinine.

I loves me some tomboy princess <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my book, a tomboy is a girl who is not an air-head cheerleader type who actually has independence and doesn't care about looking all pretty and all that. I can see why Sonic would be attracted to a girl like that that has brains and is not some complete ditz.

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not true. Its a bit of a gray area what it means to each individual. There are people who subscribe to the physical sex to constitute sexuality but then again that becomes problematic because There are transgendered people who consider themselves lesbians for example because despite being physically male they feel they are women inside despite their physical sex, and see themselves as lesbians if they are attracted to other women. Moreover said woman might consider herself gay if she's attracted to a transgender female who is physically male.

But how does one define mental gender without using stereotypes?

I mean...I'm transgendered, myself. I am physically male, but feel like a woman inside.

The thing is, I have no idea what makes me female in the mental sense. I just feel that way. I can't describe it.

I can't think of a way to describe it without using stereotypes. I wind up sounding like I'm being sexist against myself.

If I can't define my own femininity, how can I define Sally's?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my book, a tomboy is a girl who is not an air-head cheerleader type who actually has independence and doesn't care about looking all pretty and all that. I can see why Sonic would be attracted to a girl like that that has brains and is not some complete ditz.

I was talking to my girlfriend about this, and she said that she always loved Sally because she was a character she could identify with. A strong female character who wasn't a girly-girl.

Some people have been making the insinuation that tomboys are somehow an insult to girls. How insulting to tomboys! A tomboy is still a girl, and what's wrong with having a female lead who is one? Is it that awful that Sally is a character that non-girly girls can relate to? Or must all lead females be only role models for pretty pink princess girls? Ugh.

Sally came out of the 90's, a time of new and fresh empowerment for girls. She came from a time when it was finally becoming okay for girls to like things that weren't pink and frilly. The idea that Sally is somehow a sexist character is ludicrous! To think that way IS sexist, because it harks back to a time where boys and girls were segregated by gender-role confinement.

Besides, Sal wasn't retconned from girly-girl to tomboy. She was always a tomboy. The Archie comics wrote her more girly in the first place, most likely because they were used to the generic stereotypes used in their other productions (Betty/Veronica/etc anyone?). But in SatAM, she WAS a tomboy, and she's made a welcome return to that personality and appearance. Hurrah for Sally!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my book, a tomboy is a girl who is not an air-head cheerleader type who actually has independence and doesn't care about looking all pretty and all that. I can see why Sonic would be attracted to a girl like that that has brains and is not some complete ditz.

Fairfieldfencer, as much as I respect the tomboy archetype- and find it a generally positive presentation of female characters- I have to disagree with the assertion that "girly" girls are inherently "air-headed" or "ditzy."

There are feminine women who are smart, skilled, and capable- Just as there are also tomboyish women who are the same. (Similarly, both masculine and feminine men are also equally capable of these traits.) To consider "girly" traits inherently bad seems skewed in my opinion.

This isn't a critique of the tomboy archetype; As I said, I consider it a perfectly valid and generally well-handled portrayal of empowered independent women. I'm just saying that it's not the only way to portray this, and that femininity is not synonymous with ditziness or other negative stereotypical roles.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oops, I kinda overlooked the negative stereotypes in FF's post. You're quite right, Doc, there are plenty of girly/feminine women who are equally strong and capable role-models for girls.

My point really was that a tomboy can be an equally strong and suitable role-model for girls as a feminine woman, and that it's not a sexist portrayal of a woman - it's simply one type of woman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should have seen that coming. I'm not saying that all girly girls are idiots. I'm saying that there are some out there that do tend to go over the top and become obbsessed their appearances. These types usually end up stupid, but there is no way that there isn't one of them that has brains. There's plenty of them out there. I'm just saying that types like Sally are usually smarter because they focus less on looking good. I apologise if I offended anyone here with my comments.

Edited by Fairfieldfencer
  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Sal is necessarily 'smarter' because she doesn't focus on looking good. That's really only a problem when a character is obsessed with their appearance to the extent that they lose focus on other important things.

I don't think Sally is less of a role-model for girls because she's a tomboy, but I don't think she's more of one either. She's just not a stereotypical 'girl' and there's nothing wrong, better, or worse about that :3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree with Red, you're blowing this out of proportion here. Also it does say princess, and that IS her connection to the book.

No it isn't. Saying she's a princess doesn't descirbe her connection to Sonic. "Leader of the FFs" or "Sonic's best friend in all of Mobius (according to his testimony even)" Would tell us how she's relevant to Sonic's life.

Some people have been making the insinuation that tomboys are somehow an insult to girls. How insulting to tomboys!

That's twisting our words. No one said being a tomboy was an insult to girls. However, I think that tomboys being the lead females in both the Sonic and Knuckles books, and getting a ton more focus, status and respect among Sonic and the main cast is than their more girly counterparts (who are treated as more periphreal and less relevant) is what's insulting. And more to the point, the fact that we had to add it to a girls' description as if being a tomboy is so new novel and cool. It's almost like saying as I said before labeling Nate "intelligent black guy" wtf would that have told us about his relevance to the story? And is being intelligent and black that new and novel an idea?And what is that saying about all the other people that identify themselves as black then?

YES Sally is a tomboy and the lead female. That doesn't necessarily mean that she has to have so much more focus than girls that are more girly to represent how women act a little more fairly. Bunnie may more girly than Sally but Bunnie's relevance to Sonic is so disconnected she's really only been a comrade throughout this series and is sort of "there for the ride" with Antoine during FF get togethers. Feminine interests and women's issues are also incredibly underplayed with her especially since she got together with Antoine. The average woman is at least pressured by woman's issues, and has more femininity than Sally. Like I've said, yes you can choose to be a tomboy. That doesn't mean you won't feel any pressure to for example, "dress up." One of the reasons I've considered Sally not to be female "inside", and for Sonic to be possibly be gay is because she seems so disconnected with women's issues despite her physical sex. Which of course would make a lot of sense if Sally never saw herself as a girl in the first place. Sally has glints of feminine qualities, but even more masculine people have feminine traits as well. Gender is really more about what you identify with being the most.

Besides, Sal wasn't retconned from girly-girl to tomboy. She was always a tomboy. The Archie comics wrote her more girly in the first place, most likely because they were used to the generic stereotypes used in their other productions (Betty/Veronica/etc anyone?). But in SatAM, she WAS a tomboy, and she's made a welcome return to that personality and appearance. Hurrah for Sally!

SatAM =/= Archie. While there may be similarities, it has never been an actual continuation of the show. Therefore, this book never had ANY obligation to follow the series to a tee and indeed within the context of Archie's own continuity it was a retecon that fits with Kens' usual pattern of writing women. Not only does he make them tomboyish but usually when dealing with women's issues like issues with appearance he looks down upon women who actually feel greatly pressured into worrying about these things. It's only "overconcern" to people who don't understand how it feels to regularly be pressured and bombarded with images and social/peer pressures. Instead it overlooks that and assumes femininity is naturally associated with being overemotional.

@ Farfield: Let's pretend for a moment that very skewed notion what a girly girl is is in fact true (and it may be for some girls) are some flaws that character has. Mmmkay. So what? One of the things I found very interesting about your opinion before other people pulled the reigns on it was that you totally overlooked that fact that while some girly girls can be very concerned with their appearance and have independence issues, there are GOOD, redeeming qualities they have as well. For example a girl that has independence issues but is the force among her friends that stresses cooperation, teamwork and coming together because she doesn't feel people should do things alone. That for example can be a strength and many eastern countries follow this idea of relishing in interdependence and relying on friends. Ironically, recent Sonic games have wrapped themselves in this theme themselves. If a masculine quality gets in the way of a mission, it's ok. The individual can still be redeeming interesting and cool. Not so for someone whose feminine.

Sally came out of the 90's, a time of new and fresh empowerment for girls. She came from a time when it was finally becoming okay for girls to like things that weren't pink and frilly. The idea that Sally is somehow a sexist character is ludicrous! To think that way IS sexist, because it harks back to a time where boys and girls were segregated by gender-role confinement.

Flyboy, feminism existed long before the 90s. As a matter of fact, the 90s was perhaps the least coherent, least goal oriented waves of feminism and has been routinely looked down upon and met with male backlash (especially in rap) because of the man bashing it did to make women look good. They also emulated the very individuals they routinely bashed. There were alternatives to pink firilly dresses looong before the 90s. It's not Sally being a tomboy that's sexist. It's having to overemphasize Sally being a tomboy princess when that tells us nothing about what she does regularly for the story and how she's most importantly related to the main character. I liked it better when Ian stuck to just calling her "leader of the freedom fighters."

But how does one define mental gender without using stereotypes?

I mean...I'm transgendered, myself. I am physically male, but feel like a woman inside.

The thing is, I have no idea what makes me female in the mental sense. I just feel that way. I can't describe it.

I can't think of a way to describe it without using stereotypes. I wind up sounding like I'm being sexist against myself.

If I can't define my own femininity, how can I define Sally's?

but feminity is something we ascribe traits to whether they're social or biological. In today's world we're understanding gender is what we identify with more as opposed us needing to be in this rigid idea that we have to encompass masculine and feminine roles completely. Whether you are consciously aware of what traits you greatly identify with or not, they are there, and to the extent you see youself as a girl and not as a boy. And frankly, "stereotypical" or not most mascline and feminine traits have both a good and and bad side to them, and are nothing to be ashamed of citing unless you're that ashamed of that personal quality. Sally is physically female but is totally disconnected from women's issues and Julie-su being worse (in trying to beleivably come off as a girl) in that she has actively demonstrated can't even empathize with the pressures many women go through nor does she want to understand. I don't really see them as women. I've really nothing that makes me predominantly see themselves as feminine individuals given they've made a point to demonstrate how they're so much more masculine in how they at and thnink.

I don't think Sal is necessarily 'smarter' because she doesn't focus on looking good. That's really only a problem when a character is obsessed with their appearance to the extent that they lose focus on other important things.

what's wrong however, with giving girls flaws? Why do girls have to encompass ideals, whereas guys can be normal? Let's pretend a girl is pressured into obsessing about her appearance so much she loses focus on important things. It doesn't mean she can't be a redeeming person. With good and useful qualities in spite of this.

Edited by Miko
  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm just going to say this before this gets into a bigger issue: You guys are right. I should not have been so stereotypical and over-looked all the feminine women that have made big differences in this world. They deserve as much credit as any other person that has done the same feat, regardless of gender, taste or mental state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what's wrong however, weith giving girls flaws? Why do girls have to encompass ideals, whereas guys can be normal? Let's pretend a girl is pressured into obsessing about her appearance so much she loses focus on important things. It doesn't mean she can't be a redeeming person. With good and useful qualities in spite of this.

Oh come on. Sally has PLENTY of flaws, which is why I love her! But a character like Sal obsessing over her appearance to the detriment of her role as leader of the Freedom Fighters? LOL. She's the LEADER. She wouldn't get to that position without sacrificing home comforts for a harsher lifestyle. Stop trying to twist Sally to fit your ideals of what a female lead should be.

You don't like Sally and part of that is because she's a tomboy. Fine. You don't like having a tomboy female lead. But that doesn't make her a BAD female lead - just one that you don't PERSONALLY like.

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh come on. Sally has PLENTY of flaws, which is why I love her!

Well since you mention it, let's go ahead and talk about them. Though I wasn't arguing that anyone said tomboys can't have flaws, moreso that people are being overly sensitive that these female qualities they look down upon.Even considering those things as flaws, flaws don't have to be the only thing about the person. Girly girls can have positive feminine qualities as well.

But a character like Sal obsessing over her appearance to the detriment of her role as leader of the Freedom Fighters? LOL. She's the LEADER. She wouldn't get to that position without sacrificing home comforts for a harsher lifestyle. Stop trying to twist Sally to fit your ideals of what a female lead should be.

1. You're the one twisting words here Flyboy.

a. The original Sally was never the leader of the FFs, didn't go to battle as much and was more feminine.

b. While it would be more challenging to have to struggle with such pressures while leading a team, it's not impossible. Feminine women all over the world are dealing with these problems while leading productive lives. That's what it means to be strong. To be capable of acheivement in spite of surrounding pressures that act as barriers for you. Not for you to acheive by being disconnected from the obstacle to begin with. That's one of the reasons I don't think Sally's all that much of a female role model =/

You don't like Sally and part of that is because she's a tomboy. Fine.

But I didn't say that's why I disliked her. Many members of my nuclear family have been called tomboys, and a good number of my favorite characters outside of the Sonic fandom are yes, you guessed it: tomboys. Especially Naoto from Persona 4. How is putting a label of "tomboy princess" being sexist suddenly mean I just said tomboys are sexist? That's like saying if someone put "intelligent black man" for Nate Morgan's label and I called that label racist all intelligent black men are racist.

EDIT:

Stop trying to twist Sally to fit your ideals of what a female lead should be.

I'm not really trying to twist Sally by inferring what should be done to her character. Though I don't really see Sally as "female" to qualify as a female lead =p

Edited by Miko
  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I refered to her as leader of the FFs because YOU said "I liked it better when Ian stuck to just calling her "leader of the freedom fighters.""

'Sides, she's always been the leader. Say what you like about SatAM =/= Archie, but the fact is, Archie was based on SatAM principally, and it made no sense to change her character. So I'm glad she's more like she was in SatAM now, because that's who Sally ORIGINALLY was.

I love that she's out there fighting alongside the guys! I can't see how her character is anything LESS than pure awesome essence-of-girl-POWA <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. You're the one twisting words here Flyboy.

a. The original Sally was never the leader of the FFs, didn't go to battle as much and was more feminine.

b. While it would be more challenging to have to struggle with such pressures while leading a team, it's not impossible. Feminine women all over the world are dealing with these problems while leading productive lives. That's what it means to be strong. To be capable of acheivement in spite of surrounding pressures that act as barriers for you. Not for you to acheive by being disconnected from the obstacle to begin with. That's one of the reasons I don't think Sally's all that much of a female role model =/

Uhmmm yes she was, how can you say she was never the leader, she was from the beginning.

Oh and as far as her title, I think her title goes as far as her connection to Sonic as Robotnik's "Mad Scientist" title, or Monkey Kahn's "cybernetic simian".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I refered to her as leader of the FFs because YOU said "I liked it better when Ian stuck to just calling her "leader of the freedom fighters.""

Yes because that's more relevant to the story as opposed to saying "OMG she's a tomboy!" for her description (even if we ignore the retcon).

'Sides, she's always been the leader. Say what you like about SatAM =/= Archie, but the fact is, Archie was based on SatAM principally, and it made no sense to change her character.

It was based on SatAM (and AoStH and the games). That's like saying the SatAM was based off the games so they shold've had Sally a male, damsel animal trapped in mechs for Sonic to save. No. Just because SatAM took a deep inspiration from the Sonic games doesn't mean it is the same verse and that it's making Sally her "original" self. It made sense for her character to be different because it wasn't like SatAM's. You say "change" as if these two Sally's were part of the exact same verse, and thus same tangent of time and history from the start when they were not.

So I'm glad she's more like she was in SatAM now, because that's who Sally ORIGINALLY was.

In SatAM. Not within the context of Archie. You should've just stuck to SatAM to get your fix for that and so Penders should've too. And from a Sonic multiverse perspective, Sally was originally a damsel always locked in mechs. Not exactly SatAM Sally is it. And manga Amy was Sonic's girlfriend. So I guess that makes Sonic Amy's girlfriend in the games no matter how many times he's denied this notion.

I love that she's out there fighting alongside the guys! I can't see how her character is anything LESS than pure awesome essence-of-girl-POWA <3

Oh she was out there. She just wasn't out there as often and wasn't taking Sonic's position as leader of the Freedom Fighters. I have no problem with a girl being on the team regularly, but it wasn't what Sally was about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sneaky edits for the lol.

Comparing Sally's 'role' in the games to her role in SatAM as an inspiration is a massively flawed and silly comparison. It's not the same at all. And don't tell me what I "should have stuck to". I stick to Archie because I like Sally and how she's characterised.

I really don't know why you even care about the Archie comics given that you dislike Sally so deeply. I'm sorry that she's not what you want her to be, but there's nothing BAD about her being a tomboy and that being a defining trait. Why not pick a fandom with central characters that you actually like instead of constantly complaining over a main character that you don't like? Why waste so much time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sneaky edits for the lol.

Comparing Sally's 'role' in the games to her role in SatAM as an inspiration is a massively flawed and silly comparison. It's not the same at all. And don't tell me what I "should have stuck to". I stick to Archie because I like Sally and how she's characterised.

Which is essentially SatAM Sally (from your own testimony). I'm not taking it back Flyboy. The book shouldn't have retconned Archie Sally to suit your tastes. It wasn't Archie Sally. There was already the cartoon for fans of that Sally. It's like making SatAM Sally a damsel locked in bots every issue because that's how the original Sally from the games is relavant to the story.

I really don't know why you even care about the Archie comics given that you dislike Sally so deeply. I'm sorry that she's not what you want her to be,

It's not because she's a tomboy. Heck I don't even see her as a tomboy, I see her as a guy. I also think that since she's a dude she should finally come out to Sonic and the rest of her friends about it instead of being in the closet. Again I don't hate tomboys. I think Sally goes beyond "tomboy" though I think she's an actual guy. Not that anything's inherently sexist about that. What's sexist is how the writers treat and label the character as well as how they comparatively treat less masculine individuals. The sexism isn't inherent in Sally herself and my reasons for disliking the character have more to do with her being a Mary Sue.

but there's nothing BAD about her being a tomboy and that being a defining trait.

Didn't say there was anything bad about her being a tomboy. How long are you gonna keep that up? Yeesh.

Why not pick a fandom with central characters that you actually like instead of constantly complaining over a main character that you don't like? Why waste so much time?

This comic is my manual on how not to write and it never fails me. Besides in spite of it's flaws it has a lot of potential as well as characters I can't see anywhere else.

Edit: Oh and being she's a Sue, I dont' think the story really should be placing as much emphasis on this character as they do, and regularly contort the story to give her a place. What's wrong with wanting to the story to be better?

Uhmmm yes she was, how can you say she was never the leader, she was from the beginning.

Oh and as far as her title, I think her title goes as far as her connection to Sonic as Robotnik's "Mad Scientist" title, or Monkey Kahn's "cybernetic simian".

Yes those are crappy titles (Khan's more so than Eggman's because Eggman's at least gives you the idea he's a villain). However that doesn't mean Sally's isn't, albiet unintentionally sexist. Calling Khan a cybernetic simian is to denote something interesting novel and cool about him. So what kind of message does it send when the cool, novel and interesting thing about Sally is her being a tomboy. Sally herself isn't what I was calling sexist. Rather the title. Again people, if I called Morgan a "smart black man" for a title, that's still racist, even though "Cybernetic simian" is a dumb title to give to the character and is equally irrelevant in telling us his relevance.

Edited by Miko
  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are incredibly sexist if you honestly think that Sally is characterised as a 'man'. I'm sorry, but the only thing that would make her an actual man would be if she was genetically 'male'. I wish people like you would grow out of these stupid gender ideals and learn that personality and character is a spectrum, not binary.

And as far as I'm aware, the book didn't retcon to suit my tastes. I wasn't even reading the thing back then. But if they did it just for me, well, gee, thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which is essentially SatAM Sally (from your own testimony). I'm not taking it back Flyboy. The book shouldn't have retconned Archie Sally to suit your tastes. It wasn't Archie Sally. There was already the cartoon for fans of that Sally. It's like making SatAM Sally a damsel locked in bots every issue because that's how the original Sally from the games is relavant to the story.

Ok this comparison is silly, "Sally" from the games was in no way an established character in the story, however in SatAM she was, then when Archie came around they took the universe and made it into a comic. So it makes sense when taking established characters to keep them that way.

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok this comparison is silly, "Sally" from the games was in no way an established character in the story,

Yeah, "she" is. "She" was central to the plot because "she" was someone Sonic had to save from Eggman. That's like saying Amy wasn't an established character in CD just because she was just a damsel which isn't true.Oh she wasn't the companion comrade but you should stop trying to twist Sally to fit your ideals of what a female lead should be. If "she" were damsel in the original, then by your logic that's what SatAM, and thus Archie (which IIRC came before SatAM) should've been portraying her as.

Well you better enjoy waiting because I don't see her ever coming out as a guy anytime soon. Also to see her as a guy when their is really no reason to is kinda silly.

Yeah because I totally haven't been giving reaons as to why I see her as a trangendered male =/

So you read the comic so that you can bitch about it.

I read the comics because there are characters I like. I anticipate it being bad these days though, so I have to find SOMETHING constructive out of reading this shit

Tomboy is a character trait, given in the beginning for the readers to get was is essentially a quick characterization,

That's something that could quickly be conveyed in....writing decently? Are you saying Ian sucks ass Kiljoy? The run down isn't really to give an idea of characterization. "Hero of Mobius" is a denoting Sonic's role of the main character. "Hero of Mobius" is not a personality trait. The captions are to explain a chacter's relevance to Sonic's story. You may not understand that Sally's the leader of the FFs very quickly on, and it may be necessary for you to know that to get into the story sooner. Personality traits should however be conveyed in actual writing.

it's not meant to be deep it's just there to give a quick understanding of her position of a princess, and that she is a tomboy.

Her position of princess is not relevant to the story. Her position as leader of the FFs? Yes, but what does her title as princess regularly have anything to do with this story, most especially THIS story?

As far as the smart black man that is racist because "black man" is not a position in the comic,

Neither is a tomboy and Sally being a princess doesn't explain what she contributes.

Edited by Miko
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait, wait, wait. People are talking about her "role in the games." To which I ask...

...Sally had a role in the games?

I mean, her cameo in Sonic Spinball (and Amy's renaming in some versions of Sonic CD) aside, Sally didn't really have a game universe role to speak of.

I understand that she's roughly based on the common squirrels you rescue from Badniks, but those many many squirrels can hardly be considered one singular character, much less can they be considered Sally in particular.

Am I... y'know, missing something here?

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait, wait, wait. People are talking about her "role in the games." To which I ask...

...Sally had a role in the games?

I mean, her cameo in Sonic Spinball (and Amy's renaming in some versions of Sonic CD) aside, Sally didn't really have a game universe role to speak of.

She was a damsel.

I understand that she's roughly based on the common squirrels you rescue from Badniks, but those many many squirrels can hardly be considered one singular character,

They were added in there as that same singular character because the game developers were lazy. If you're going to hold that arguement you'd be back handing your "game developers are lazy" arguement to discuss things like Amy looking different in the SA recap of Sonic CD for example. Those squirrels are all Ricky. Kinda did the same thing in their flicky games IIRC.

much less can they be considered Sally in particular.

But it's been much more noted Sally was taken from Ricky. Thus all other inspirations should be a damsel. Though, I can understand that interpretation could be considered too loosely connected to Sally because despite the inspiration the two characters are far too different which I actually understand (though it could've made an intresting rebuttal as to why Spinball wasn't canon). Nevertheless Archie came first by several months. It has no reason to base itself off SatAM because it was the first one to come out.

Edited by Miko
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.