Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[goku262002]

PS The dual memory thing has been confirmed to be done with, so I don't think remembering the old continuity will be referenced again anyway.

...

*sigh* quote please?

Just makes you wonder why did he even bother? and I was hoping that Naugus would be at least the only one left struggling with it long term but its just now known that Ian used it as a cop out to get him out of the issue and arc quick.

Whatever I guess, just bothers me that we started off a new universe and already we have a unresolved plot point.

[Your Vest Friend]

...

*sigh* quote please?

Just makes you wonder why did he even bother? and I was hoping that Naugus would be at least the only one left struggling with it long term but its just now known that Ian used it as a cop out to get him out of the issue and arc quick.

Whatever I guess, just bothers me that we started off a new universe and already we have a unresolved plot point.

 

One quote, coming up!

 

 

 

The double memory thing is done.

 

Put the original link to put it into context, as it was actually part of a whole conversation. The amount that's relevant outside of it is...pretty small.

 

 

As to why he did it? Well, if Ian had his way, he wouldn't have done it and simply started completely afresh. It was the editor who insisted on having Sonic and the FFs regain memory back temporarily as a bridge between the old and the new. I presume he insisted as to keep up the comic number record by making sure the older issues still had a tiny bit of relevance, amongst other apparent logistical reasons.

[Splash the Otter]

As to why he did it? Well, if Ian had his way, he wouldn't have done it and simply started completely afresh. It was the editor who insisted on having Sonic and the FFs regain memory back temporarily as a bridge between the old and the new. I presume he insisted as to keep up the comic number record by making sure the older issues still had a tiny bit of relevance, amongst other apparent logistical reasons.

So basically, the new canon has an entirely different cast from the old one, but some of them temporarily gained their counterparts' memories? It's a bit weird, but I guess it makes sense...

[Toby]

And it's not really Ian's fault. He wanted a clean cut reboot. Editorial did not. Editor gets what editor wants.

[Celestia]

With that in mind, I would have preferred no "double memory" thing at all. At most, have Sonic remember it for a little while and actually give the concept some sort of conclusion, maybe have some message about moving on (which would be meta as hell but in an appropriate way). Oh well.

[biznizz]

I took it that when the Origins stories started, that was it: good bye old continuity.

As the others have said, it was merely a bridge Ian put between old and new at the request of Kaminski. Even then I knew that was all it would ever be, just forgotten.

There's nothing anyone can do in or out of universe to do with it; no goal to work towards or memory to keep.

Penders crapped over any hope of the old continuity he created and trying to negotiate with other ex-creatives could conceivably wind up down to more Pendering suits. The sheer amount of legal drama that led us to this point should've made it clear that almost absolutely nothing will bring back anything else.

It was a damned if you do thing: do what was done but accidentally give false hope, or do a reboot that is jarring to readers with how the last 20 years of stuff is nearly completely ignored and not even mentioning it.

[goku262002]

Just now that we have this plot point that people are going to bug Ian to be resolved for literal years now that really didn't need to be their because it had no intention of ever being resolved to begin with.

kind of makes me wish we had the not-caring editor back almost.

[biznizz]

Oh God, don't even joke about that. Justin Freddy Hernandez Gabrie was just as responsible as Penders & Bollers for the years of low quality in the Sonic books.

Pellerito and Kaminski, despite some missteps on their part from time to time, at least actually care.

[Mauro Fonseca]

And it's not really Ian's fault. He wanted a clean cut reboot. Editorial did not. Editor gets what editor wants.

 

Not quite that clean. Ian wanted no memories, Paul wanted memories forever. They compromised on memories that fade.

[Delta Starfire]

I took it that when the Origins stories started, that was it: good bye old continuity.

 

Origins stories? When were they? Have I missed something? o.O

 

Anyways, I've begun reading the entire series again from the beginning (skimming over some of the earlier material, mind you), and it's interesting to note that the first honest to goodness serious story arc (with a character death and not a pun in sight) in the entire comic was Sally's Crusade in issues #17 and #18. Even back then, it seems Penders wasn't interested in writing serious drama with Sonic, considering these are the same issues that featured Gorilla Warfare and Wedding Bell Blues as their main features. And Sonic stories would continue to be mainly light-hearted slapstick up until around #40. Sally is also the first character to get her own miniseries, well before Tails or Knuckles. 

[biznizz]

Sonic Origins is going to be a series of, about 5 page, stories involving the beginnings of the Freedom Fighters and MAYBE the SEGA characters.

 

You haven't missed much; Archie's Free Comic Book Day had the first two: Sally & Rotor. Sally's story was also put into the more recent... Select, I believe. These are going to be in the Selects, Digests, and Super Special Magazine, but has been said that they will be included in the collections of the main book from "The Chase" onwards until it's done. But so far, they've announced that Antoine and (possibly) Bunnie will be next.

 

There was a bit of controversy in Sally's story, as SEGA doesn't want to show the game characters younger (even in their classic designs) sometimes... Eggman Classic made an appearance in a flashback in like 252 or 253. A cover with Amy Classic's profile was altered to make her Modern; and a "young Tails flees Mobotropolis" cameo was cut/recolored without Ian's knowledge and he has to find a way to work around SEGA's confusing mandates.

 

Also, did you know that because the Sally mini (which happened because SEGA at that time actually wanted to give her a marketing push and see what would come out of it) didn't sell as well as Archie had predicted, Ken decided he wanted to out-n-out kill off the character in Endgame, which was supposed to be the book's finale?

[Delta Starfire]

Sonic Origins is going to be a series of, about 5 page, stories involving the beginnings of the Freedom Fighters and MAYBE the SEGA characters.

 

You haven't missed much; Archie's Free Comic Book Day had the first two: Sally & Rotor. Sally's story was also put into the more recent... Select, I believe. These are going to be in the Selects, Digests, and Super Special Magazine, but has been said that they will be included in the collections of the main book from "The Chase" onwards until it's done.

 

Also, did you know that because the Sally mini (which happened because SEGA at that time actually wanted to give her a marketing push and see what would come out of it) didn't sell as well as Archie had predicted, Ken decided he wanted to out-n-out kill off the character in Endgame, which was supposed to be the book's finale?

 

That's kinda problematic, since I only get the main series and I'm not willing to wait for the collections. :/

 

Anyways, quick (lol) thought...

 

In context of Sonic universe, I could easily imagine the whole human/Mobian relationship stuff being a major centre of controversy and debate in the same way the LGBT debate in the real world is.

One side argues that it shouldn't happen because they can't produce viable offspring (if any) and it borders on bestiality, while the other argues there's no logical reason why two self-aware lifeforms who are in love with and are perfectly capable of providing full consent to eachother can't be together.

 

 

It's funny you should mention that. In my own comic (which began as a Sonic fan comic and still is, somewhat), interspecies relationships is a controversial issue akin to homosexual relationships or interracial relationships before that, and hybridisation, while possible with medical intervention, is frowned upon by some, to the point that some conservatives want to legislate against it. While you'd have to approach it from a less political angle in a kid's comic, there's no reason something like couldn't be done in Archie's Sonic. If a cartoon like Arthur can tackle complex issues in a way kids can understand, after all...

 

And, it wouldn't be the first time Archie's Sonic had done something political like that. I particularly enjoyed seeing Amadeus reform New Mobotropolis's system of absolute monarchy into a crowned republic, after all. That right there was presenting readers with the enlightenment concept of governing with the consent of the governed, and it was fantastic. I was delighted to read it. 

[biznizz]

Eh, different strokes. The change of government wasn't a bad idea, but...

 

Pre-emptive TL;DR, I wrote my thoughts on that in my last summary of the book a few pages back.

[goku262002]

Doesn't matter, its not like SEGA would even let Ian touch the issue whereas Penders could touch upon every issue he ever wanted. god I wish the roles were reversed where Penders was the one stuck with all the strict mandates back then.

[DarkLight]

I'm having a hard time picturing Penders sticking around for even a couple months without exploding from pure outrage that he wouldn't be given as much freedom as before.

[goku262002]

I'm having a hard time picturing Penders sticking around for even a couple months without exploding from pure outrage that he wouldn't be given as much freedom as before.

Yeah, maybe then this book wouldn't been run into the god damned ground like it did.

[Delta Starfire]

Still re-reading. I'm up to #25 now. It's really quite jarring how the book will be slapstick one issue and then deadly serious the next. There's not the good balance between the drama and the comic relief that StC had at the time (provided it wasn't a Lew Stringer story...) and that StH has today. For instance, issues #22 and #23 were pretty serious -- they featured the arc involving E.V.E. and Robotnik's apparent demise (really, just dimensional displacement), and the story was pretty good. The art was also spectacular -- nobody draws Robotnik prime quite as well as Patrick Spaziante. But then, #24 is back to lighthearted slapstick -- Robotnik taking the Freedom Fighter oath?! Come on! -- and #25 shatters the Fourth Wall by Robotnik raiding the Sonic Grams mailbag to find out who Sonic's biggest admirer is? (Spoilers! It's Amy Rose!)

 

It's like a strange, split-personality book at this point. But I do find that I really appreciate the more serious stories, sparse as they are, at this time. And that's all Penders (often with Kanterovich). So, yeah. As much as he's taken from us now, he did make the earlier issues bearable. 

[biznizz]

Its strange to remember that Mecha Madness, when you get to it, was done by the traditionally lighthearted Gallagher, who also did the Tails mini. Shame that he never did a big story like that again, and he was still around when even Penders got booted.

Its at this time where there was confusion on whether the book should be AOSTH with SatAM elements or SatAM with AOSTH elements. They'd eventually go more SatAM, then devolve into the Penderian-Bollerain glut the comic is still infamous for.

[Delta Starfire]

I'm going to say something unpopular, but I really don't dislike the Penderian-Bolleriean glut that the comic's infamous for. Yeah, I'll grant that it takes itself a bit too seriously at times and I much prefer the Flynn era (pre-super genesis wave -- it's still too soon in the reboot for me to say whether I like it more or even as much as the previous Flynn era), but when I first read through that era earlier this year, I actually rather enjoyed it. Now, that might be different this time, since I know what comes after it, but I'd be lying if I said I disliked that period in this book's history. 

[Wittymations]

I think Penders kinda started losing it once he killed off Robotnik. Like, at that point, he didn't have an idea of what to do with it and just started going wild.

[Delta Starfire]

I recall that in the immediate aftermath of Robotnik's death, the first few issues were a bit lame. But, for me at least, it really picked up again. 

[kimplix]

We got em!

 

[Phos]

Yep, Ben bates primary cover and yardley variant but then I didn't really need the credits to tell that. I'm getting post Shin Fist of the North Star flashbacks with all these fish people.

[Wittymations]

I love the variant cover. lol, Eggman knows how to enjoy his time at the beach.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Crystal Cave, wasn't that Sonic and the Black Knight? If so, yay Black Knight reference!