Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Aquaslash]

In reading all of Penders musings, one thing jumps as being clear to me.  He had ZERO respect for Dr. Eggman.  He was very quick to kill him off in his future tales, and didn't do him any kind of justice other than being some vague evil figure.  I'm pretty sure he's gone on record as saying that his little Echidna legion could "eat Eggman for breakfast" too.  This will probably be the thing I dislike the most about his works.  Eggman is just as much a main character as Sonic IMO, and he really needs to be treated as such.

 

 

EDIT: this was probably better suited for the other topic, though it does have some relevance here.   I guess I'll just cross post later

[Dejimon11]

Was that an Ecco thr Dolphin reference? I thing I like about Ian's writing is how he makes references and takes a jab at things

[biznizz]

@Legendary Aqua, the idea that, even at their height, the Dark Legion could even be a THREAT to Robotnik Prime, let alone Eggman is delusional at best and completely stupid at worst.

It merely underscores just how little Penders and his fans who.agree with him truly don't understand Sonic on even the most basic level and why there is hope for the world that Penders won't be in charge of anything else Sonic again, like the movie.

[kimplix]

Crystal Cave, wasn't that Sonic and the Black Knight? If so, yay Black Knight reference!

 

You sir, are right.

[Toby]

One thing I noticed that I really like. Sonic is willing to put aside the world to help someone else with their problem. Just like the child in Black Knight whose family was taken by the dragon, the only thing on Sonic's mind at the moment is what they can do to help Coral.

 

Meanwhile, Rotor is more concerned with the big picture. Piecing the planet back together. Both are totally justified in their opinion, I just like the different perspective Sonic and Rotor have in what's more important at the moment.

[Your Vest Friend]

Meanwhile, Sally was being kind of an idiot. 

[Xeric]

Meanwhile, Sally was being kind of an idiot. 

 

How is she being 'an idiot'? Eggman has ravaged the planet, probably leaving many places of beauty destroyed, even before splitting it apart with the genesis wave. She want's to take this opportunity to save one. If anything, that's very noble of her and fits her personality to a tee.

 

Like Toby said, both Sonic and Rotor have a different perspective of the entire issue of what's more important here. Sonic and/or Rotor probably wouldn't agree with her either, but Sally wants to help preserve the beauty, so that's what she's doing. 

[Your Vest Friend]

The problem is that she should have been aware of the beauty before she made the plan. It's an underground mining operation, at no point did anyone think that it would have lots and lots of pretty sparkly mineral deposits? Instead, she goes in all gung ho, having no idea about what lies underground and then changes her mind. You're a tactician, this isn't rocket science, Sally!

 

It's geological science.

[Sonic is a Care Bear]

I don't think that's fair. The uniqueness is what makes this gem deposit special and worth preserving. Nobody was prepared for what was down there, not even Eggman when he was building the mine.

[Sunwalker]

For me the problem was that Sally decided to give away their presence before they had left the place. Now they turned an entire cave of badniks against them. They could just had set a timer for the robot or something.

On the top of that, the destiny of the whole planet might depend on the success of that mission, so saving one place at the cost of the entire planet does not make much sense. Of course they still could had given their presence after they left, so they would have both succeed on their mission and saved the cave. It was a bad decision by Sally.

[biznizz]

I didn't really have much mind the backup. Its nice to see that, even while the planet is in crisis, they still want to preserve the little things. I would've had a problem if they were more focused on saving the cave than finding the Emerald.

Its more concern for the environment than blowing up an oil refinery in the Arctic, or blowing up nukes underwater in a bay.

[QuantumEdge]

I think it's one of those "it's crazy, but it just might work" sort of plans that do indeed sometimes work.  It also shows once again Mobians care for the natural environment.

 

And on another note @Biznizz, I was just wondering  if  you're still doing that summing up of all the previous issues, or is that now done?

[biznizz]

It'll probably happen Friday or Saturday. Had a busy week; hurting my foot last Tuesday didn't help either.

[anna]

In Sally's defense, they were focused on the mission at hand- to get the Chaos emerald.

[Blue Swallow]

I liked it, it went well with the main story. Sally wanting to protect the cave, was similar to Sonic wanting to help Coral.

[Delta Starfire]

Caught up! It's weird how soon the latest issues became available, but I'm not complaining. I don't know though. I'm not really feeling the current underwater antics, although King Puff is going to forever speak with Lemongrab's voice in my mind now:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07So_lJQyqw 

 

And that was fun. Anyways, I rather preferred the backup story this time. I'm hoping things will start to pick up in the main story soon though, simply because I'm finding what's going on right now a little slow. But I'm sure it's heading somewhere exciting.

In my re-reading, I'm up to #31 of the main series and Knuckles' Chaotix in the specials. It's starting to veer steadily towards more serious stuff. Steadily.

[biznizz]

So you've done the Tails & Sally minis, as well as the first 3 specials too? Cool.

 

But when ever I read the Chaotix special, I just get flabberghasted on just how terrible Penders' pencils were, even back then.

 

 

 

(Charmy, what are you doing? Stop. Stop it, Charmy. Stop... sticking to that bush like it's velcro or something...)

[Delta Starfire]

So you've done the Tails & Sally minis, as well as the first 3 specials too? Cool.

 

But when ever I read the Chaotix special, I just get flabberghasted on just how terrible Penders' pencils were, even back then.

 

 

 

(Charmy, what are you doing? Stop. Stop it, Charmy. Stop... sticking to that bush like it's velcro or something...)

 

With the exception of Art Mawhinney and Patrick Spaziante, the art on the series back then just wasn't that great. So Penders's lack of talent was pretty well camouflaged. The only things that really stand out to me on those two pages are velcro Charmy and... where is Mighty standing in panel 2 of that second page...? It looks like he's floating...

 

But, yes, I have indeed read the Sally and Tails series. In fact, I just re-read the Tails miniseries this morning. Ancient Walkers and Athair and Crocbot... Oh yes, and the Downunda Freedom Fighters. Lots of stuff we'll never see again now, even though the miniseries was scripted by Gallagher, not el Grande Pendejo. 

[DSP001]

wup

[biznizz]

Oh, I finally managed to find the letters page that completely insulted Dave Manak's artwork from issue 18, back in 1995!

 

 

Personally, even though I found Manak's earlier stuff to be a bit... compressed? Stiff? From time to time... I didn't think he was that bad of an artist. His later work is where I would say that it started to get...

 

 

Yeah...

 

Actually, in hindsight, I find that Shaw's work looks more like he's trying to emulate Walt Kelly (is it just me or does the posssum girl from his segment in the In Your Face special look like Pogo?). It's really good, but I wouldn't slam Manak down like that German snob prick did for comparision.

[Ducktor Naldush]

"You must be eating a lot of carrots these days" 

 

Carrots are good for your eyesight.

[Delta Starfire]

Oh, I finally managed to find the letters page that completely insulted Dave Manak's artwork from issue 18, back in 1995!

 

 

Personally, even though I found Manak's earlier stuff to be a bit... compressed? Stiff? From time to time... I didn't think he was that bad of an artist. His later work is where I would say that it started to get...

 

 

Yeah...

 

Actually, in hindsight, I find that Shaw's work looks more like he's trying to emulate Walt Kelly (is it just me or does the posssum girl from his segment in the In Your Face special look like Pogo?). It's really good, but I wouldn't slam Manak down like that German snob prick did for comparision.

 

Huh. I need to pay more attention to the credits. I didn't realise Manak was still with the series as late as this must have been. When was this? 2003? 2004? Also, yeah. He's not my favourite artist on the book at all, but he used to be better this...

[Wittymations]

Oh, I finally managed to find the letters page that completely insulted Dave Manak's artwork from issue 18, back in 1995!

 

 

 

God...

 

That looks very, very unprofessional.

[Delta Starfire]

God...

 

That looks very, very unprofessional.

 

What? The initial letter or the response? Or both?

[Zaysho]

Oh, I finally managed to find the letters page that completely insulted Dave Manak's artwork from issue 18, back in 1995!

 

[letter snip]

 

Personally, even though I found Manak's earlier stuff to be a bit... compressed? Stiff? From time to time... I didn't think he was that bad of an artist. His later work is where I would say that it started to get...

 

[image snip]

 

Yeah...

 

Actually, in hindsight, I find that Shaw's work looks more like he's trying to emulate Walt Kelly (is it just me or does the posssum girl from his segment in the In Your Face special look like Pogo?). It's really good, but I wouldn't slam Manak down like that German snob prick did for comparision.

I think Manak came into his own more after the first year of the comic or so. For a good while he was kind of a poor man's Shaw (and it really shows in how he drew Sonic when he started out, which definitely aped Shaw's style, which in turn drew from Greg Martin's design for American Sonic). I kinda wonder if we can credit the likes of Mawhinney and perhaps even Spaz, both of whom actually followed the Japanese models for Sonic, for the change over (especially since I don't think any of the American cartoons, even Underground, used that model)?

Manak's later stuff is kinda hit and miss for me; I think, as with the example you brought up, it's just not a good idea to bring him in on otherwise serious plots. I think he's a good cartoonist, but was not suited for the direction the Sonic book took at the time, which is why I think he more often than not relegated to a scant few back-ups that were decidedly sillier and suited his sensibilities more later on.

Speaking of Shaw, whatever happened when he went after Archie for reprint rights? We haven't heard anything about that since the Penders lawsuit was dismissed. I presume that Archie struck some kind of deal to continue printing the works in question, which I think was something VEDJ-F brought up a while back, but I don't think I've seen much else on the subject. I've sorta lost some respect for Shaw based on more recent things I've read, such as his expressing surprise that work on a licensed book doesn't belong to him or claiming to not be given any contracts to sign until after handing the work in (and here's an interesting follow-up, especially for Mark Waid's input), which I seriously doubt any publisher does for obvious reasons. I think he's a great artist, but he's borderline uppity at times. Granted, I do think what he's saying is far more sensible and worth talking about (coming down to better page rates and reprint royalties) compared to a certain other former Sonic comic scribe's crusade. I just think, for someone who's been in this game for a long minute, would know that work on licensed comic books are WFH.

 

haha and seeing those pages for "The Hunt is On!" reminds me of a rescripting I was working on to fix some holes in the story and otherwise update the dialogue to not be so cringeworthy. I also wanted to redraw, but I have a feeling I'd be in over my head just based on my script so far... Maybe I oughta get back to that. I was definitely exceeding the original page count last I checked, though...