Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Vertekins]

Not that I am aware of.

 

The two ghost buddies remain nameless, while "Raa" was the text found on a piece of Concept art of our Mermaid gal pal. So some people just ran with that. ^^

 

The thin ghost's name is Suu. The fat ghost's name is Wuu. The minotaur ghost that resulted from them fusing is named Baker and girly ghost's name is Raa or possible Laa due to the fickleness of R's and L's in Japanese. This is all outlined on their individual concept art's.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'll also admit that I'll be disappointed if it plays out that Sonic and Chip don't have a strong friendship in Archie. My argument is based on the (imo) likelihood that their friendship will have a different, but equally strong if not stronger basis and that Archie will explore Sonic and Chip's friendship in a much more interesting way than the game did.

But, if Sonic and Chip's friendship is kaput, I admit I will be disappointed. I just don't think it's gonna happen and I don't think Chip being named by someone else is the harbinger of that.

And that's essentially why some of us don't have a problem with this difference currently because that's essentially what we're expecting later down the line.

If this turns out not to be the case, then we'd join the other side over how unfaithful it is. But right now is too damn early to be making that call until we know for sure that's exactly the case. All that's going on is changing dynamics for an adaptation, which could match the games more at a later point in time.

[Nepenthe]

How is it too early to say that Knuckles and the Chaotix, instead of Sonic, initiating the early bonding moments with Chip is unfaithful to what happened in the game, when it simply isn't what happened in the game? Plot threads in adaptations are either faithful in terms of accuracy to the source material or they're not. What should be up for debate are people's reactions to the change, not the fact that a verifiable change is indeed a change.

[SuperLink]

How is it too early to say that Knuckles and the Chaotix, instead of Sonic, initiating the early bonding moments with Chip is unfaithful to what happened in the game, when it simply isn't what happened in the game? Plot threads in adaptations are either faithful in terms of accuracy to the source material or they're not. What should be up for debate are people's reactions to the change, not the fact that a verifiable change is indeed a change.

The crux of the issue isn't how Sonic and Chip meet, it's their relationship, surely?

 

Everyone knows an adaption is an adaption and not a retelling, yeah there are going to be differences. I thought peoples' argument was that they worried that Sonic and Chip's friendship was going to be ruined?

 

And our argument is that we're confident it will be done and it will be done well, even if it is different. Faithful or not, what people are worried about is Sonic's friendship with Chip, and faithful or not, I have complete confidence that Archie will give us a developed friendship between Sonic and Chip that is superior to the game's that does not need Sonic naming Chip to be the basis of the friendship, it could well be something even more interesting but you'll never know if you decide to write it off this early in the arc?

[Mauro Fonseca]

That's the old "why say it's bad already" "well why say it's good already" problem, though. So far Archie hasn't shown me one shred of indication to trust this adaptation will be worth it, and thus while I'd certainly enjoy to be proven wrong, I conclude I have enough info to, based on past writing, past attitudes of the comic to the games, and current writing, this is going to be a bad Unleashed adaptation. You say that instead, based on the exact same amount of info, you trust it'll be good.

[Sega DogTagz]

The thin ghost's name is Suu. The fat ghost's name is Wuu. The minotaur ghost that resulted from them fusing is named Baker and girly ghost's name is Raa or possible Laa due to the fickleness of R's and L's in Japanese. This is all outlined on their individual concept art's.

 

Ah, good to know.

 

You learn somthin every day round here.

[Nepenthe]

The crux of the issue isn't how Sonic and Chip meet, it's their relationship, surely?

 

Everyone knows an adaption is an adaption and not a retelling, yeah there are going to be differences. I thought peoples' argument was that they worried that Sonic and Chip's friendship was going to be ruined?

 

And our argument is that we're confident it will be done and it will be done well, even if it is different. Faithful or not, what people are worried about is Sonic's friendship with Chip, and faithful or not, I have complete confidence that Archie will give us a developed friendship between Sonic and Chip that is superior to the game's that does not need Sonic naming Chip to be the basis of the friendship, it could well be something even more interesting but you'll never know if you decide to write it off this early in the arc?

 

It's kind of both, considering their relationship in the game is formed on the basis of this particular meeting and moment. My personal opinion in the matter though is that while I don't think that Sonic and Chip won't form a friendship, I as a fan am thrown off kilter when I see Knuckles and co. going through the motions of the earlier bonding moments instead of Sonic, because that's also going to have to carry through within limited writing space, and it makes me less excited for the book. It's no different to me than when Chris was the one egging on Shadow to help and not Amy, and that is regardless of his lack of popularity. Indeed, I don't see how it would've made a difference had Eggman done it. The fact is, that was Amy's moment, and she as a character partly suffered for it.

 

And it's fine for you to be completely confident that Archie will deliver based on your own expectations and previous experiences with the book. My hang-up is I personally don't see why it's a big deal that others aren't feeling it based on the exact same information you're using to cultivate your own positive feelings. People shouldn't be hounded or called whiners for making a conclusion of equal veracity to the one that this adaptation will turn out well regardless. Basically, why should I have to wait and see when others aren't waiting to see if the book will actually be good before declaring positive expectations?

[Mega]

Then perhaps it would be better to treat it as a story simply inspired by Sonic Unleashed? Again, I get why everyone's so frustrated, but I think it's important to judge the comic on its own merits. And I think what makes this different from Sonic X is that these are all pre-existing characters. Yeah, the naming thing was really rushed and lacked the charm it had in the games, but idk. I guess I'm just cautiously optimistic? Ian isn't Ken Penders, so I doubt he'll pull the same bull that happened in the SA1 adaptation.

I'm someone who found the Sonic and Chip interactions very cute in the game, so I am a bit saddened by the change, but I'm having trouble thinking of a better alternative beyond leaving him nameless or giving him a totally different name, which... probably would tick people off even more, since his name is so important.

[Mauro Fonseca]

If it's a story simply inspired by Sonic Unleashed instead of an adaptation, they can start by not touting as a Sonic Unleashed adaptation :V Again, I'm mostly getting confused over this point here. Why bother doing Unleashed? It's like buying a LEGO toy box specifically to throw it away. Why not just use my pre-exisiting LEGOS then?

[SuperLink]

I'll say again that I wasn't convinced by Sonic and Chip's relationship in the game at all, I thought the "basis" of their friendship was actually incredibly weak especially by "the power of friendship" trope standards. I have no doubt at all that if Archie wanted to make a far more interesting and fascinating friendship between Chip and Sonic they could in about a million ways that didn't involve ice cream at all.

 

But fair enough if people aren't feeling it so far because I'm personally not either (for reasons besides this mostly induced by bitterness about the whole old continuity being completely killed), I just think it's a shame to write it off so I hope people aren't planning on doing that. I especially think it's a shame because I didn't enjoy Unleashed's story much in general and I think people choosing to abandon this "adaption" for being different could potentially be really missing out on something far better than the plot they keep defending.

 

EDIT: derp typos

EDIT2: Also sorry for getting all argumentative or heated in here, I know Unleashed is important to a lot of people which I fail to appreciate or respect as I should, but I also think Archie respect that a lot better than I do, which is why I think it'll be worth seeing how this unfolds for those who love Chip and those who don't.

[Nepenthe]

I'm not really hinging the basis of their meeting or their entire relationship based only on the ice cream incident, and I don't think other fans of the game are doing so here as well. We're saying that the major plot point of Sonic and Chip having met under the circumstances they did has effectively been lost. This will have an impact on Sonic's impetus for bonding with Chip throughout the arc, a lot of which was interesting because he initially felt personally obligated to do so, to repay him back for the mistake as it were, which in turn directly feeds his desire to help Chip out and thus grow with him beyond more generic "the hero must save the helpless" stylings.

 

Currently, we have other characters who have been inserted into this moment and thus we can reasonably conclude that they are now going to be similarly emotionally invested, and if so that is going to compete a little with the ideas and themes of what was essentially a buddy road trip, if only because there's only so much space to fit writing and development in under a comic book format. Again, none of this means that Sonic and Chip won't have a friendship or that it won't be good, but I don't see it occurring under similar circumstances which in turn may impact the entire story's tone and high points altogether, the things fans actually liked about it in the first place. We don't want a perfectly accurate story, but at the same time we still want something that hearkens back to the overall emotional investment we poured into the game in the first place, and I don't see that as a bad thing or wrong.

 

If you didn't like Unleashed's story, fair enough that you don't care for any changes being made in this vain and are looking forward to it. But I don't think it's fair to Unleashed fans to essentially guilt them about not being happy with this because of the mere possibility that it may turn out better and that we'd be essentially just defending shit. Aside from differences in opinion, no one knows anything about this book at all, at least no more than what's been shown. Everyone's thoughts are on an even keel, so I'd feel it'd be fairer to let the discussion persist under that knowledge.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Nepenthe

[Delta Starfire]

I take my eyes off this topic for an hour and suddenly it asplode! I guess there's a new issue out, ne? Pity I can't read it until next Wednesday, most likely. Digital delay FTW. Oh well. 

 

Going back to what I was saying about zones, I took out my Knuckles Archive #1, which has a map of Angel Island (then Floating Island) which was printed in Knuckles mini-series #1 (the Archives are all out of order with that stuff as the maps featured in the first mini-series are cut in between chapters of "The Dark Legion" mini-series). It's sorta funny that, in spite of all I was talking about how Archie treated zones as dimensions, Penders actually got it right for a single moment by referring to various "zones" on the Island as just regions or sections. Of course, this would be the only instance in the book, at the time, as he still often ran to the end with pocket dimension stuff, but I thought it was still interesting.

Here's the map, but it's a little small. I'll try to get a better shot later if I can.


 

I'd probably be less harsh on Archie's idea of "zones" if they could've nailed down just what the hell they were because what the various creators came up with was always inconsistent and made worse when they had to include game material into the mix. I think by Flynn's time, he just acknowledged the alternate universes, i.e. Moebius, Sol, and No-Zone to fit with the idea and largely did away with pocket zone stuff, save for the Dark Legion's home dimension, which became the Twilight Cage after Chronicles, and for the Special Zone.

 

Y'know, I never thought about the use of zones on that map. It's about the only thing related to Knuckles that the comic stayed true to the games over. Although... I question the placement of the zones on this map. I really do. If the Sandopolis Zone were that big -- basically a third of the island -- you'd see that from the air. But the only distinctive features you ever see from the air are the mountains, forest, and mushrooms. So, it's the Mushroom Hill Zone that ends up looking disproportionately big. 

 

Haha, don't worry about it. The most of StC I've read (and I actually had CBR files of the complete run at some point and never got around to reading them at the time because college) was a Knuckles solo story in which he was dealing with some Marx Brothers knock-offs (something I'd expect from an American comic, actually). I don't have a strong opinion on the series right now, but I do like what I've seen of Elson's artwork. Knux's necklace is a little weird, but I think it's kind of a neat interpretation. I wish I had time to read the run, actually, but I've got a literal pile of other things to read that I think it'd be too long before I get around to it. One day, maybe. I would be interested in comparing the two runs.

 

Heh. I loved the Marxio Bros. They were basically kinda there as a piss-take of the Mario Bros. In their first appearance in StC #18, Robotnik threatens them with sending them back to the Marxio World, which terrifies them. They only had three appearance, but they always entertained me. The story you're describing was their longest appearance, actually -- Carnival Night Conspiracy in issues #39 to #44, from November 1994 to February 1995. In the middle of the Sonic 3 & Knuckles adaptation, which started in #33 and concluded in #53. A full year before StH even touched the Death Egg!

 

Oh, myyy! I've fangirled all over my post again. What a mess!

 

Out of curiosity, what are some similarities you're seeing between Archie Sonic now and in recent years that are also in Fleetway's run?

 

Well, the biggest thing that sticks out to me in the previous continuity is the creation of the Special Zone, which ended up looking like its own pocket universe -- very similar to how it was treated in StC. Of course, StC's Special Zone didn't have Feist, and it was where the Chaotix Crew usually hung out (on the planet Meridian, usually). Also, when Robotnik lost his shit Nic Cage style in StH #200, that felt very StC, since Robotnik started a spiral into madness towards the end of StC's run. Although he never quite had the same nervous breakdown that StH's Robotnik had. That was glorious, by the way.

 

But more recently, it's just the general approach and tone of the comic to telling the story. Like StC in its prime, StH has become basically the game universe, plus. That is to say, it's a world based heavily on the games, but with its own unique elements -- characters, places, etc. If it's done well, I think StH could be truly awesome. 

 

Did you know that I loved StC when I was a kid?

 

On the subject of adaptations, I feel like Archie was always hurting to find ways to incorporate game stories, but always falling short because the world they themselves set up was practically incompatible with that material. In a way, I have to point a finger at SEGA because they allowed the book to take so many bizarre turns to the point that asking Archie to even use their games in those stories was always a pointless exercise and felt forced (Sonic Adventure being the biggest offender IMO). I suppose it says more about how interested Archie's creative team for the book were in the Sonic property altogether than anything.

 

Yeah, seriously. I don't get why the book got so far away from the source material to begin with. Even things like Robotnik's old look, for instance. But it's not just cosmetics, it's the entire setting of the story. I'm not talking about "Mobius" -- I really don't care what the planet's called -- I'm talking about the Great Forest, Robotropolis, etc. StH built an entire world that had no basis in the games the comics were adapted from. It's no wonder Flynn had to do the copout of "Another time and place..." for a lot of the obligatory tie-ins, and they never got mentioned again or had any bearing on the plot. 

 

What's going on right now is really quite an interesting take on Sonic Unleashed. I find it curious that the book's adapting a game that is now six years old, however. But I'm enjoying it and I appreciate the fact that it's not being rushed, nor is it just a straight, frame for frame retelling of the game's story. 

 

That said, I think that was a strength Flynn brought to the table since he managed to converge both worlds (pre-reboot) to at least allow for the possibility of more SEGA!Sonic elements without directly contradicting Archie's way of doing things, and things that couldn't quite fit got the "Another Time and Place" treatment until there was time to make it happen in the book proper.

 

I really dug where Flynn had got the world pre-reboot. It's one of the reasons I was so annoyed by the reboot. He very skilfully steered the comic from something that was nothing like the games onto a path that was closer to them, but still respected the established continuity. The result was something truly amazing that was going great places. It made me very sad when it all ended in StH #247. I really wanted to see where things were going next. At the very least, I wanted to see if I had been right in guessing that Bunnie had gone to get herself legionised, having become "useless" to the Freedom Fighters thanks to Naugus. Plus, I wanted to see a glorious revolution against "King" Naugus and see Geoffrey St Jerk get his comeuppance too. 

 

I will say this, however... I'm guessing we've seen the last of Mogul? I sure hope so. I got so sick of him constantly popping up!

 

Death in kids' media is always so weirdly handled these days I feel. There's a lot of awkward dancing around the use of words like "die" or "kill" unless there are VERY specific circumstances to justify it, but even then, they try their best to not use those words from what I've seen. Even in the darkest episode of 4Kids' TMNT cartoon, "Same As It Never Was" the only time anybody says "dead" was when Future!Mikey exclaims that everyone thought Donatello was dead when he got lost in a time warp. They didn't even talk about Future!Splinter being dead, instead cutting the sentence short ("Splinter is...").

The subject itself doesn't seem taboo, and things have come a long way since the days of, say, Saban needing to write character deaths in Dragon Ball Z as "going to the next dimension" (which was oddly not entirely inaccurate for DBZ...), but there's an odd avoidance of stating it outright. Considering it's always bad guys that talk about killing in kids' cartoons, you'd think they could get away with it...

 

Which reminds me. Some of the shows I'd hold up as examples of kid's media that do respect kids enough to tackle "grown up" concepts like death would include Clone Wars, Transformers Prime, and Adventure Time (believe it or not). I'd also throw in Batman: The Animated Series, Superman: The Animated Series, and Beast Wars as outliers from the 90's that manage to do this too. 

 

I get the impression the "Boomer" name was never final and they just changed it when Sonic SatAM hit mainstream. They were working off early production materials and had to keep with a monthly schedule. Likewise with Sally's more common design being use from #16 onwards. Though it wouldn't surprise me if Penders or one of them came up with a convoluted reason for the name change. He decided to explain Sally's color change (Knuckles #29) or how she got her freakin' vest of all things ("In Your Face!")... Thankfully those examples are only single panels, but it's no less silly.

 

 

I find it interesting that Sally's look was updated to conform more to the cartoon, but Rotor's never was. It was so strange to me when I first saw images from the comic, because I was used to blue Rotor from SatAM, except for in the pilot. So, when I saw that Rotor was purple in the comic and always had been, it was very odd. Funnily enough, I've spent more time now reading the comics that when watching SatAM now, it feels strange to see a blue Rotor. Also, Sally was depicted wearing the vest before In Your Face, so it doesn't even really work as an explanation for her getting it. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

How is it too early to say that Knuckles and the Chaotix, instead of Sonic, initiating the early bonding moments with Chip is unfaithful to what happened in the game, when it simply isn't what happened in the game? Plot threads in adaptations are either faithful in terms of accuracy to the source material or they're not. What should be up for debate are people's reactions to the change, not the fact that a verifiable change is indeed a change.

Because we're still in what is basically the first act of the whole adaptation. Everything is being set up, the shattering of the world, Pickles' rescue, the Gaia Scrolls, and Dark Gaia's minions, and now we're introduced to Chip. We're more than several issues in, counting both the main comic and the Universe arc, yet we're still in the beginning of the Unleashed arc.

That is why it's too early to judge. It's just that things are being set up at different intervals compared to the games. You're telling us that you don't want a 100% adaptation, but that comes off as contradicting when you then tell us you want it to be accurate to the games and criticize the parts in question for showing differences like this, which isn't convincing us to your former claim.

And nevermind how some immediately wrote it off at the start as them throwing away the entire dynamic of a Sonic and Chip bonding because instead of Sonic naming Chip, it was Charmy. And that's where whole counter argument to this being too early to judge springs up, because at this point when things are just now falling into place, with additional elements not in Unleashed being present, to write off something that for all anyone could possibly know could re-establish itself later down the line.

If they turn out accurate and it is thrown away, then they were right. But not even those on the other side know how things will end up, hence them saying it's too early to judge.

[Nepenthe]

Me being not on board with one specific change is not indicative of me being 100% against every single change in the arc, thus it's actually not contradictory at all. What would be indicative of me being against any and all change is if I actually said that, which I never did. This goes back to what I said to Toby; it's disingenuous to misconstrue people's issue with one moment as in any way wanting this arc to be a literal retelling of the same exact story.

 

I also still don't see why it's too early to express negative thoughts on how these changes may impact the way they're able to or will decide to tell the rest of the story down the line, especially since I'm not one of the people who actually said "they've thrown away everything about Sonic and Chip's relationship," and especially since others in here and the status updates have said they are fine with it and look forward to the changes without being harped on for jumping the gun. If we're going to be forming early impressions about how we feel the rest of the arc will play out or how we feel about it thus far as a whole, impressions of all persuasions should reasonably be considered fair game without one side demanding the other to "wait and see" like what always happens.

[anna]

I thought Charmy and Chip was kinda...adorable. and anyway, who's to say he won't bump into Sonic later? They may seriously need him.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Me being not on board with one specific change is not indicative of me being 100% against every single change in the arc, thus it's actually not contradictory at all. What would be indicative of me being against any and all change is if I actually said that, which I never did. This goes back to what I said to Toby; it's disingenuous to misconstrue people's issue with one moment as in any way wanting this arc to be a literal retelling of the same exact story.

Except this isn't the only moment in the comic where people had problems with the setting being unfaithful to the games. You weren't around during the parts before this when people were arguing over changes like this, and Chip being found and named by someone else is the most recent addition to this debacle regarding not just this arc in the adaptation, but the coming in general a few issues after the reboot.

Whether say you are or aren't against it being 100% is one thing, but there's saying one thing and showing something else to the other side that comes off as contradicting. You can tell me whatever you want or believe, but I start raising an eyebrow when you show me differently.

I also still don't see why it's too early to express negative thoughts on how these changes may impact the way they're able to or will decide to tell the rest of the story down the line, especially since I'm not one of the people who actually said "they've thrown away everything about Sonic and Chip's relationship," and especially since others in here and the status updates have said they are fine with it and look forward to the changes without being harped on for jumping the gun. If we're going to be forming early impressions about how we feel the rest of the arc will play out or how we feel about it thus far as a whole, impressions of all persuasions should reasonably be considered fair game without one side demanding the other to "wait and see" like what always happens.

Because there's not enough info to make an assessment on how it will impact the way they will tell the story. All it is is sheer guesswork.

It's one thing to be negative of what we got, it's another to make a full judgment of the whole thing from here on out when we don't even know where things are being led around in the adaptation. It's basically leaping without looking, even worse when we don't have much to look before making the leap anyway.

[Wittymations]

I'm not bothered by the changes what-so-ever. I like seeing things done differently, there's a chance it could be better. Wasn't really all that impressed by Unleashed anyway, bar the opening.

[Dejimon11]

No one at all is asking for 100% faithfulness. -.-;;

Really? Cause from what I'm reading it sounds like people do.

[Nepenthe]

Except this isn't the only moment in the comic where people had problems with the setting being unfaithful to the games. You weren't around during the parts before this when people were arguing over changes like this, and Chip being found and named by someone else is the most recent addition to this debacle regarding not just this arc in the adaptation, but the coming in general a few issues after the reboot.

Whether say you are or aren't against it being 100% is one thing, but there's saying one thing and showing something else to the other side that comes off as contradicting. You can tell me whatever you want or believe, but I start raising an eyebrow when you show me differently.

Aside from the fact that no one has proven that anyone who has a problem with this current change has had a literal problem with every single one in the form of damning quotes, thus it still continues to operate as an unfair and irrelevant generalization until then, you must realize I am not everyone else. Their opinions have absolutely no bearing on my own, so I don't want to hear what everyone else is doing when my own opinions are being addressed.

 

And if you're going to literally ignore what I'm telling you at face value and just make up in your own what my thoughts are, that is your issue, not my own, and if nothing else that's likely to make me drop out of the discussion altogether. I'm not of the mind of talking to people who think they know my thoughts. If I've not told you how I feel about every single change in the comic, you have no basis whatsoever to fill in the blanks and "raise your eyebrow" at me. That's fucking rude, to put it mildly.

 

Because there's not enough info to make an assessment on how it will impact the way they will tell the story. All it is is sheer guesswork.

It's one thing to be negative of what we got, it's another to make a full judgment of the whole thing from here on out when we don't even know where things are being led around in the adaptation. It's basically leaping without looking, even worse when we don't have much to look before making the leap anyway.

But I've not made a judgement of the whole thing. I've never once said the arc is definitely going to suck. I've expressed my opinion on the change that's the subject at hand, and given my personal interpretation of how this might merely affect the rest of the story. And even then, I've not said whether these changes will be for better or worse in the story as a whole. For people who keep saying the naysayers jumping to conclusions, they seem comfortable enough putting words in people's mouths and jumping to their own conclusions.

 

Really? Cause from what I'm reading it sounds like people do.

Then you're reading wrong. No one to my knowledge has said the entire comic needs to be a basic shot for shot remake of Unleashed's story. People are saying they have an issue with what they feel is a major change. These are not the same thing at all.

[Echidna Adventurer CC14]

Spoilahz!

The issue opens with Knux and the Chaotix stumbling upon Chip and the Emerald. After Rad Red realizes that this is the spirit that he's been looking for, Charmy makes note of the Emerald, causing Chip to fly away screaming. Knux tries to ask him to stop, but he's cut off by Vector jumping into action, hoping to recover his meal ticket. After a bit of a chase, the Chaotix corner him, but Knux intervenes, saying that this spirit is under HIS protection and that they shouldn't be scaring him to death. After they make their intentions with him and the Emerald clear, Chip is overjoyed, glad to know exactly what the Emerald's for. Knux is confused, but Chip reveals that he has "ambrosia" and can't remember a whole lot. He woke up a few days ago and found the Chaos Emerald and he knew that it was important, but he couldn't remember for the life of him what he was supposed to do with it. Knux realizes that this must be what Tikal meant by the spirit having difficulty with fulfilling its duty and tells Chip that he'll get him out of Aquatic Mine safe and sound. Chip expresses his gratitude and the group starts to head back.

After Knux introduces himself and asks what Chip's name is, he doesn't remember, making a comment about his memories being like "a bunch of chocolate chips without a cookie to hold 'em." That gives Charmy the idea to name him "Chip," which Chip himself absolutely loves. (One funny detail is that his name box pops up in the panel directly after he's named with a "You Heard Him" caption. XD) After showing a lot of joy over having a new name, new friends, and a purpose ("I am Chip, spirit of...whatever-I'm-supposed-to-do!"), he's grabbed by the returning Hooligans. Knuckles demands that they put him down, but Nack suggests a trade for the Emerald.

Back to Angel Island, Relic and Fixit find a mysterious root in the Mushroom Hill Zone. Relic notes that it's robbed all of the Earth around it of its nutrients and that it doesn't look like any plants indigenous to the region. She asks Fixit if this is what was causing the energy reading and he gives the affirmative. Relic feels relieved that the damage seems to be contained in one spot and asks Fixit to uproot it for analysis. He does so, but wonders WHERE she plans on analyzing it. She's not sure since the Island's systems don't seemed to be geared towards such a process, but she brings up the possibility of the Flying Battery being able to help them, noting the versatility of Eggy's systems. However, as the two make their leave, they don't notice Eclipse spying on them from behind a mushroom.

Back to Knux and crew, they battle the Hooligans (Bean complicating things by causing explosions to make water slowly fill into the room) and eventually free Chip from Bark's grasp (Chip even pulling his hat over his face to give Knux an opening.) Knux then decides on a new plan. He gives Chip the Emerald (Much to Vector's chagrin) and tells him to fly up and out of the place to the Emerald Shrine on Angel Island where he'll be safe with Relic. Chip is a bit uneasy at first, but with some reassurance from Knux that he'll watch his back, he agrees. Soon, though, a Dark Gaia Titan enters the cavern and starts to try to smash them. Knux decides to use this time for Chip to make his escape while he and the Chaotix battle the behemoth. However, the Hooligans aren't as distracted by the Titan as the good guys and try to grab the Emerald only to have to settle for both Chip AND the Emerald when the little guy won't let go of it. Nack tells Bean to close every way out but one and the deranged duck does so, setting several bombs as the Hooligans make their escape. Knux yells for them to come back, but Nack simply tells him that it's been a pleasure as Bean throws one final bomb into the chamber, causing a cave-in that seals Knux, the Chaotix, and the Titan in. After coming to, Espio saves Knux from the Titan's club and suggests that they deal with the colossus before going after the Hooligans. The issue ends with Knux revealing that they need to do it fast, since if they don't get out of there before too long, the entire chamber will flood and they'll drown.

Enjoy!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Aside from the fact that no one has proven that anyone who has a problem with this current change has had a literal problem with every single one in the form of damning quotes, thus it still continues to operate as an unfair and irrelevant generalization until then, you must realize I am not everyone else. Their opinions have absolutely no bearing on my own, so I don't want to hear what everyone else is doing when my own opinions are being addressed.

Except you asked a general question not specific to you, and I'm giving a general answer to it and pointing out this is not the only case going on. And since you're not the only person in this discussion, I did make it a point to exclude you specifically when it came to the other cases you weren't present in, did I not?

You may not be everyone else, but you're not the only one sharing some of the points you made, nor does it invalidate the point I'm made.

And if you're going to literally ignore what I'm telling you at face value and just make up in your own what my thoughts are, that is your issue, not my own, and if nothing else that's likely to make me drop out of the discussion altogether. I'm not of the mind of talking to people who think they know my thoughts. If I've not told you how I feel about every single change in the comic, you have no basis whatsoever to fill in the blanks and "raise your eyebrow" at me. That's fucking rude, to put it mildly.

Well apologies if you find it rude, but understand that it is less that I'm ignoring what you're saying and more that I'm suspicious of it. I expect people to practice what they preach when they make a claim, and when I see them do what appears to be the opposite of that I raise an eyebrow.

But I've not made a judgement of the whole thing. I've never once said the arc is definitely going to suck. I've expressed my opinion on the change that's the subject at hand, and given my personal interpretation of how this might merely affect the rest of the story. And even then, I've not said whether these changes will be for better or worse in the story as a whole. For people who keep saying the naysayers jumping to conclusions, they seem comfortable enough putting words in people's mouths and jumping to their own conclusions.

You didn't, but others sure aren't convincing us otherwise due to how reactionary they come off as.

And I don't see how the other side is putting words in people's mouth when the naysayers are calling foul on this change that's taking place and making a major judgment from their about how the dynamic in questioned is ruined as a result of other character being put in place for it. Because that's precisely what they're calling out.

[Sean]

Sonic and Chip's friendship was a big fucking deal in Unleashed and arguably the heart of that game's plot. Replacing Sonic with someone else cheapens it; you can't eliminate their first meeting and expect it to play out the way it does, and I can't fathom for what reason the writers have that Knuckles and the Chaotix deserve to meet Chip first and even name him instead of Sonic. Even if they do become friends later, it's going to feel hamfisted and not possess anywhere near the depth it has in the game.

 

I haven't read the comics in a while but I'm pretty disappointed to hear of this major change which has no sense of being.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Sonic and Chip's friendship was a big fucking deal in Unleashed and arguably the heart of that game's plot. Replacing Sonic with someone else cheapens it; you can't eliminate their first meeting and expect it to play out the way it does, and I can't fathom for what reason the writers have that Knuckles and the Chaotix deserve to meet Chip first and even name him instead of Sonic. Even if they do become friends later, it's going to feel hamfisted and not possess anywhere near the depth it has in the game.

 

I haven't read the comics in a while but I'm pretty disappointed to hear of this major change which has no sense of being.

Knuckles' now has plot relevance and has been hunting the spirit for 3 months now, its kinda important that he found it, and its quite possible he may suffer another case of amnesia for all we know 

[Nepenthe]

Except you asked a general question not specific to you, and I'm giving a general answer to it and pointing out this is not the only case going on. And since you're not the only person in this discussion, I did make it a point to exclude you specifically when it came to the other cases you weren't present in, did I not?

I asked a general question that was not in specific reference to any single member and have proceeded to answer you further from my own point of view. I have been coming at this particular tangent from my own thoughts since the beginning. 

And even then, you have still failed to provide evidence that any person in this topic has firmly concluded that they have a problem with literally every single change in the arc. So at this stage, this is less pointing something out and you merely making a baseless accusation, something that I reiterate can be easily fixed by just finding pertinent quotes and posting them.

 

You may not be everyone else, but you're not the only one sharing some of the points you made, nor does it invalidate the point I'm made.

I didn't say it invalidated your point. I said what everyone else thinks has no bearing on my own thoughts.

 

Well apologies if you find it rude, but understand that it is less that I'm ignoring what you're saying and more that I'm suspicious of it. I expect people to practice what they preach when they make a claim, and when I see them do what appears to be the opposite of that I raise an eyebrow.

Apologies "if I find it rude?" How about "Sorry for making a baseless assumption about your argument even after you clarified yourself?"

And I am practicing what I preach by not railing against every change the comic has made to the game's story nor making a generalization about the arc as a whole, which goes in line perfectly with my opinion that I don't find every single change bad. You've extrapolated my problem with the Chaotix scenario as proof that I may dislike everything else about the comic, plain and simple, and I'm literally telling you that I don't. I've clarified the matter, thus your suspicions on this front have no basis in reality.

 

You didn't, but others sure aren't convincing us otherwise due to how reactionary they come off as.

 

It shouldn't matter how reactionary or passionate someone is. What matters most is the words they type and the syllogisms made from those words. If I said "I don't like Sonic's new shoes because they're missing the white stripe" it literally doesn't matter how angry I appear to be about it; the statement in question only refers to Sonic's shoes and their lack of a stripe, not his eyes, not his colors as a whole, nor his voice actor, not Yuji Naka, nor anything else. If you are indeed curious about the deeper opinions of someone on a whole subject, it would be far less condescending and assholish to simply ask for further clarification than simply saying you have "suspicions" about what they believe and "want people to practice what they preach." I don't need any lessons about not being a hypocrite.

 

And I don't see how the other side is putting words in people's mouth when the naysayers are calling foul on this change that's taking place and making a major judgment from their about how the dynamic in questioned is ruined as a result of other character being put in place for it. Because that's precisely what they're calling out.

No, that's not the only thing people have called out. Every single person who hasn't been on board with the changes we've talked about today has been deemed whiners, told that they were jumping to conclusions too soon, called hypocrites in so many words, had their arguments misconstrued as "Oh, so Chip can't befriend anyone else?!", etc. by a few people simply generalizing. These are all strawmen arguments in reference to the whole side.

 

And again, you yourself said to my face "You can tell me whatever you want or believe, but I start raising an eyebrow when you show me differently," which comes across far less as a genuine attempt to comprehend what I'm saying and more like you're looking down your nose at me as you simply make up what I actually think even after clarification, to my own fucking face no less.

[Sonictrainer]

 

I found a couple pictures.