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Toby

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Sonic naming light Gia chip wasn't the importance of their friendship.

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The importance of it was sonic and chip traveling the world in order to help chip recover from his memory lost and to save the world. When chip regained his memory and wanted to finish his job by himself sonic stopped him from doing this on his own so they can do it together because they were friends. If we have moments like that then it should be fine. Having something like where chip got his name from is the least thing to get worried about.

Remember in mega man 2 Dr.Wily installed a virus inside his 8 robot masters and when mega man got all the data he became corrupted and became a servant of Wily then the original robot masters restored him? Or in super adventure rockman when ra moon caused a global black out which caused many people to be hurt, injured, stranded and hospitalized? Or when break man shot roll during that incident they couldn't repair her because their was no working technology and not because the emp effected her because she's a girl robot? Yeah me neither those were adaptations made by Archie. If they were able to make an adaption of game that even the creator of the franchise hates and make it good I have faith that the unleashed adaptation will be fine as long as they get the important parts

*werehog

*chip and his friendship with sonic(something I recall Ian saying in an interview that the adaptation will be incomplete if it wasn't there)

*world building

*professor pickle

Also is it possible we can stop being a bit dramatic we have enough of that in the boom thread

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Reading these last few pages have been physically painful :\

 

 

Yes, Sonic meeting Chip is a major plot point and the basis of their entire relationship. Its where they established their relationship to begin with, it doesn't matter what happened afterward, it was their little moment at Apotos that kicked off the plot and it is a very important part of Unleashed's story, whether you like it or not. So changing the circumstances of Sonic & Chip's meeting is effectively changing their dynamic right there, whether its for better or worse remains to be seen, but at the moment it is a very large departure from the source material and it's one that is going to have big ramifications for the plot to follow. 

 

 

Now can we just accept this and move the fuck on already...please, I'd like to talk about the actual issue thank you very much.

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So, I've elected to stay the hell away from this argument, because whenever I get involved... well, I'm usually part of the problem. That said, I'm incapable of shutting up, so...
 
I'm of two minds about this, but I'm really not willing to pass judgment because I want to give Flynn some credit that he has a plan for Sonic and Chip's bond and for how the whole World Adventure plays out. Look, it's entirely possible that the adaptation could turn out to be complete shit, but I'm not willing to believe that the Chaotix and Knuckles stumbling upon Chip first and naming him (and his name is still rooted in what he was named for... though in fairness he shouldn't know what cookies/chocolate chips are) is what's going to make it so. I do see how it could cheapen things because it raises the question "well, wouldn't Chip arguably be closer to Knuckles now?" Maybe... but I also believe this just plays into Chips naturally friendly and goofy nature. I expect Knuckles to get Chip back to Angel Island to see Tikal or for Tikal to catch up with him in the Mines to guide Chip to a Gaia temple where he will eventually meet Sonic. I fully expect Chip to be friendly and give goofy names to all of Sonic's friends, and if he's tagging along with Sonic, I fully expect their dynamic to be similar.
 
Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't see anything completely contradictory to the character of Chip, and I feel there has to be a good reason why Flynn chose for Chip's first stop to be in Aquatic Mine for him to cross paths with Knuckles. Hell, I like to think he knows people would react strongly to this decision. While I did make some guesses, I'm just going off what little we know from recent solicitations right now and what Knuckles himself said to Chip in the scan that was posted. I'm not ready to call it yet. If this thing falls flat, it'll be because of other factors in the story (and I seriously hope we're not going to be hitting some kind of arc fatigue), and Chip as we meet him here isn't what I want to hinge it on, regardless of what the original did.
 
That's my two cents, now I better go take cover... I sorta wanted to get at Bethany, but something tells me it's a little late for that, but I'll leave with this:
 
 

I really dug where Flynn had got the world pre-reboot. It's one of the reasons I was so annoyed by the reboot. He very skilfully steered the comic from something that was nothing like the games onto a path that was closer to them, but still respected the established continuity. The result was something truly amazing that was going great places. It made me very sad when it all ended in StH #247. I really wanted to see where things were going next. At the very least, I wanted to see if I had been right in guessing that Bunnie had gone to get herself legionised, having become "useless" to the Freedom Fighters thanks to Naugus. Plus, I wanted to see a glorious revolution against "King" Naugus and see Geoffrey St Jerk get his comeuppance too. sleep.png


Pretty much, the world had more of a SEGA flavor to it, and I expected them to continue building on it. So many questions left unanswered... I can only hope the "Lost Hedgehog Tales" fills in the gaps because I've been itching to know what was going to happen with Naugus. That was probably one of the more interesting post-Genesis storylines, especially since Mecha-Sally dragged on for too long, and it'll always bum me out it was so unceremoniously and abruptly ended under such lousy circumstances.
 

I will say this, however... I'm guessing we've seen the last of Mogul? I sure hope so. I got so sick of him constantly popping up!


Get out. We can no longer be friends. D,: No wait don't go, don't leave me with these people! I take it back!

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Big post ignoring what's been said on the last pages and lastly talking a swipe at "stop arguing u guise this isn't the boom thread"

 

God, fucking, damn, it.

 

Here, have one post, by me, in this god damned topic, replying to "but it's not the games it can be different!"

 

 

Not enough? How about one by Nepenthe?

 

 

Want to once again reply with "but it's an adaptation it can do whatever it want", read these posts again. I'm tired of repeating.

 

Want to instead argue "but we can trust Archie, it'll be a good comic?"

 

 

Here, yet another post already tackling that.

 

Want to instead argue the naming of the character is insignificant, despite being one of the first character moments between Sonic and Chip?

 

Why here, a post by Sean!

 

 

Or how about there's no problem with the big, emotional beat of "I'm going to protect you" having been given to Knuckles instead? I'm sure me, or Verte, or someone talked about why that's crap too before.

 

I don't even have a point here other than "so you choose to believe Archie knows what they're doing, good for you, with the same amount of info I'm doing the equally valid guess they don't" other than "your post rubbed me the wrong way and it's 6am", so there. Whatever. Please don't jump into the middle of a discussion like that with a big condescending post about how "oh Archie already changed Mega Man up".

 

Rambling.

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Whoa….what if Dr. Eggman actually gets Chip and the first Chaos Emerald before Sonic?

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Or how about there's no problem with the big, emotional beat of "I'm going to protect you" having been given to Knuckles instead? I'm sure me, or Verte, or someone talked about why that's crap too before.

Indeed.

 

tumblr_n7a9dxNVXr1s9pusko1_500.png

Knuckles is already taking vital establishing moments of Sonic's bond with Chip. If Sonic suddenly 'shoulders' his way in and takes prominence regarding this then I expect Knux's fans to feel like Knux is getting the short end of the stick and it undermines this moment. Hence why I think that the dynamic between Sonic and Chip is already likely to have been unjustfiably screwed-with.

There is absolutely nothing about this that is any different to how Chris leeched Amy's role in Sonic X, a moment that is widely held in contempt, yet it's getting a free pass. It's undermining a part of what Unleashed's story was all about - The relationship between Sonic and Chip. I presume this is due to a massive double standard - It's OK for Flynn to do this and have Knuckles bond with Chip in this manner instead of Sonic, something that was incredibly vital to Unleashed's premise yet it's not alright for Sonic X's writer(s) to have Chris get through to Shadow instead of Amy. It's disingenuous role-leeching and misses one of the important things about the game's narrative.

 

If Sonic does manage to get his role as it was like in Unleashed then it'll likely undermine this moment.

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Indeed.

 

There is absolutely nothing about this that is any different to how Chris leeched Amy's role in Sonic X, a moment that is widely held in contempt, yet it's getting a free pass. It's undermining a part of what Unleashed's story was all about - The relationship between Sonic and Chip. I presume this is due to a massive double standard - It's OK for Flynn to do this and have Knuckles bond with Chip in this manner instead of Sonic, something that was incredibly vital to Unleashed's premise yet it's not alright for Sonic X's writer(s) to have Chris get through to Shadow instead of Amy. It's disingenuous role-leeching and misses one of the important things about the game's narrative.

 

If Sonic does manage to get his role as it was like in Unleashed then it'll likely undermine this moment.

 

You're comparing a simple meeting to a MAJOR personality shift for a character. Like....if Knuckles was the one sitting out on the boardwalk with Chip during sunset then yes id say this comparison was equal, but a simple hand shake and how-do-you-do is in on way comparable in terms of signifigance. You'd think there would be way more to Sonic and Chip's dynamic then just that.

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There is absolutely nothing about this that is any different to how Chris leeched Amy's role in Sonic X, a moment that is widely held in contempt, yet it's getting a free pass.

Again, I don't see how not minding the change is a hypocritical or "crap" view on this issue. People didn't like the "role-leeching" Chris did because people don't like Chris. On top of that was the fact Amy fans (or at least fans of that particular moment in SA2) were understandably upset. In this case, not only is it Knuckles, who is generally well liked, but it doesn't inherently harm the inevitable friendship between Sonic and Chip. It's one thing to not like Knuckles' meeting with Chip, it's an adaptation and there's always going to be controversy with them, but to try and dismiss the other side as being hypocrites using Sonic X, of all things?

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Knuckles didn't just greet Chip. He has taken him under his arm in an effort to help him out and keep him safe. It comes off as disingenuous to not consider this analogous to one of the major plot points in the game, that being when Sonic first met Chip, and to subsequently ignore the context of why this meeting was important to how their friendship was established and was developed. 

And it's not that Sonic and Chip literally cannot physically be friends under the circumstances. All we're saying is that it was important for setting up a few things that partly made the game's story enjoyable. -.-

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I'm honestly curious to see how Sonic and Chip meet now, actually. I'm guessing what'll happen is Knuckles meets up with Sonic and for whatever reason Chip goes with him instead, or maybe Chip is somehow accidentally separated from the Chaotix (& Knux) at some point only to bump into Sonic. I think the latter could mean for a meeting not too dissimilar from the game, at least in theory.

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I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that, considering the next arc of Universe is about Eclipse again, Knux isn't going to be going around and protecting Chip.

 

Who knows, maybe this hurts Chip's trust in others, and meeting Sonic will help rebuild it and make it into the friendship that was in the game.

 

I'm just honestly surprised this is causing so much drama.

 

I'm gonna bow out again. Hope you guys can reach an impasse sooner rather than later.

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Jeez, I must say I was surprised at the new origin of Chip's name, but I never really expected so much upset from it.  However if it's any consolation, I wouldn't be surprised if Chip goes his own way by the end of this arc and meets Sonic.  Most likely in Control.

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I am less upset about the origin of Chip's name and Knuckles' interference than I am by some of the responses to my posts and general arguments. I don't normally get this heated (or at least try not to), and I'm not trying to come across as some elitist for the original game's story, especially when I have criticized it myself in the past. But I'd be a lot less passionate and angry right now if I didn't feel the opposition was calling me a whiner, unreasonable, hypocritical or whatever simply for not being particularly enthused at the change as it's been presented. However the arc is going to turn out it's going to turn out. I don't think this is a deal breaker at all frankly. But for fuck's sakes. -.-+

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I asked a general question that was not in specific reference to any single member and have proceeded to answer you further from my own point of view. I have been coming at this particular tangent from my own thoughts since the beginning. 

  

Well I've been coming at this, not just from my point of view, but from that of others because I think their points are worth considering in the discussion and should be worth pointing out.

 

 

 

And even then, you have still failed to provide evidence that any person in this topic has firmly concluded that they have a problem with literally every single change in the arc. So at this stage, this is less pointing something out and you merely making a baseless accusation, something that I reiterate can be easily fixed by just finding pertinent quotes and posting them.

 

I actually didn't want to go posting the quotes, because given how tense this topic already is I wanted to avoid having the drama from those quotes come back. But if you insist, I might as well gear up for the tension that would likely result after linking these examples. 

 

Let's start with the discussions of whether or not is wrong for Archie Sonic to be it's own unique identity from Game Sonic in the same vein that Sonic Boom was as it makes use of the game elements - one side flat out says that less like a Sonic comic while the other side claims that compares the difference of the comics and the games to that of Sonic Boom, also arguing that there is no to them owning the rights for the comic.  with more specific details over having it be more closer to the games such as (which gets extended later down the line to also include the other FFs of Sally, Antoine, Rotor, and Bunnie not being FFs either, clearing up some ambiguity but not enough for the general point the other side made), to which it repeats itself again as the

 

This is where the suspicion comes when people become skeptical when someone makes the claim that no one is asking for things to be 100%, because as much as some of us would like to believe, given those debates and how skeptical some are when they hear it, people find it harder to believe that's the case. And this recent debate stirred up the same sentiments yet again regarding Chip being found by the Chaotix instead of Sonic, and it's because of these previous discussions that connect to sentiments in this discussion now.

 

And these are just specific links to a much larger discussion I'm giving you, so there's plenty to see where that skepticism is coming from when you look back then and the look at the discussion now regarding things not being 100% with the Chaotix meeting Chip first.

    Apologies "if I find it rude?" How about "Sorry for making a baseless assumption about your argument even after you clarified yourself?"

Because it wasn't a baseless assumption even after you clarified yourself, as there was a reason for the suspicion as I gave you above, and I still stand by it. Now, you clearly may not be in agreement the same sentiments in the way I look at them, but there is a reason why this assumption was made and why I raise an eyebrow whenever I hear it regarding the comics.

 

 

    And I am practicing what I preach by not railing against every change the comic has made to the game's story nor making a generalization about the arc as a whole, which goes in line perfectly with my opinion that I don't find every single change bad. You've extrapolated my problem with the Chaotix scenario as proof that I may dislike everything else about the comic, plain and simple, and I'm literally telling you that I don't. I've clarified the matter, thus your suspicions on this front have no basis in reality.

Yes, I can see that.

 

But this isn't limited to just your problem with the Chaotix scenario, because as I've said before this is one of a number of other points made regarding the claim of not desiring it to be 100% like the games, and that is contributing to the skepticism of the claim in not desiring it to be 100% like the games.

 

 

    And again, you yourself said to my face "You can tell me whatever you want or believe, but I start raising an eyebrow when you show me differently," which comes across far less as a genuine attempt to comprehend what I'm saying and more like you're looking down your nose at me as you simply make up what I actually think even after clarification, to my own fucking face no less.

It's sheer, honest skepticism of your words and/or the applications of them, no more than that.

 

I've been a lot of things, from stubborn, cynical, blunt, argumentative, skeptical, and hyperaggressive, to downright ruthless, coldhearted, and predacious at my worst when it comes to a discussion like this. But even in tense moments like these I'm pretty sure I show enough respect at my worst not to look down on people in a snobbish manner like that.  

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To defuse the situation, I guess I'll ask about something else in the spoilers.  What was that plant that Relic and Fixit found?  I know it's Black Arms related, but what's its importance?

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Probably something to do with Eclipse's little "Dark Arms" project, I'd assume.

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Well I've been coming at this, not just from my point of view, but from that of others because I think their points are worth considering in the discussion and should be worth pointing out.

And they have nothing to do with my opinions so why are you addressing them when talking to me and not just talking to them directly?

 

This is where the suspicion comes when people become skeptical when someone makes the claim that no one is asking for things to be 100%, because as much as some of us would like to believe, given those debates and how skeptical some are when they hear it, people find it harder to believe that's the case. And this recent debate stirred up the same sentiments yet again regarding Chip being found by the Chaotix instead of Sonic.

None of the quotes you posted have anything to do with the current claim you and others have made that people want this current arc- the Unleashed adaptation- to 100%, shot-for-shot, line-for-line, exactly like Sonic Unleashed's story. Like, literally no one has said this, either in this specific instance, or in regards to the comic as a whole, where undoubtedly some of those same members have probably praised other aspects of the universe, in turn making the assumption moot.

 

 

Because it wasn't a baseless assumption even after you clarified yourself, as there was a reason for the suspicion as I gave you above, and I still stand by it. Now, you clearly may not be in agreement the same sentiments in the way I look at them, but there is a reason why this assumption was made and why I raise an eyebrow whenever I hear it regarding the comics.

Your reasoning is still essentially based on what you yourself personally believe about my thoughts and what other people are doing, not what I'm actually saying, so you're still not actually listening to me and giving me the benefit of the doubt. Again, if you're going to essentially make up what I'm saying in your own head, what reason do I have to talk to you?

 

But this isn't limited to just your problem with the Chaotix scenario, because as I've said before this is one of a number of other points made regarding the claim of not desiring it to be 100% like the games, and that is contributing to the skepticism of the claim in not desiring it to be 100% like the games.

Which has nothing to do with me. Literally the only thing I've discussed is my issue with the current scenario and my current belief that this actually isn't necessarily going to negatively affect the rest of the arc. Your complaints literally have nothing to do with me. So why in God's name do you insist on dragging other people into this and making their thoughts my own?

 

It's sheer, honest skepticism of your words and/or the applications of them, no more than that.

 

I've been a lot of things, from stubborn, cynical, blunt, argumentative, skeptical, and hyperaggressive, to downright ruthless, coldhearted, and predacious at my worst when it comes to a discussion like this. But even in tense moments like these I'm pretty sure I show enough respect at my worst not to look down on people in a snobbish manner like that.

You're not really being particularly respectful because you refuse to actually take my own thoughts at face value without actually mischaracterizing them via accusing others of disagreeable behavior and thus making me guilty by association, or being unreasonably suspicious based on faulty reasoning. I cannot and will not talk further about this to you because you simply refuse to acknowledge what I'm actually saying at face value. I literally can't say anything to you, and I've made my thoughts about this known well enough. So I'm done with this topic. Call me in if there's a report. *shrugs*

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And they have nothing to do with my opinions so why are you addressing them when talking to me and not just talking to them directly?

 

Partly because we're not the only people here discussing it, and partly because it's part of my thoughts as I'm discussing them to you? I know you're not them, but your points divorced from you and applied to others are something I'm skeptical over.

 

None of the quotes you posted have anything to do with the current claim you and others have made that people want this current arc- the Unleashed adaptation- to 100%, shot-for-shot, line-for-line, exactly like Sonic Unleashed's story. Like, literally no one has said this, either in this specific instance, or in regards to the comic as a whole, where undoubtedly some of those same members have probably praised other aspects of the universe, in turn making the assumption moot.

I've said that I'm skeptical when people say "we're not demanding things to be 100% like Unleashed" and those quotes from the past that I've listed are partly what has led to me being skeptical, and that people complaining about this instance of the Chaotix meeting Chip first has made me even more skeptical of that. This current claim connects further back to those quotes in this arc, that little elements like this tend to make it hard to believe them whether they've said it or not.

 

 

Your reasoning is still essentially based on what you yourself personally believe about my thoughts and what other people are doing, not what I'm actually saying, so you're still not actually listening to me and giving me the benefit of the doubt. Again, if you're going to essentially make up what I'm saying in your own head, what reason do I have to talk to you?

Except I did give you the benefit of a doubt by acknowledging that you aren't in the same boat given what you just said to me about you. But that still doesn't put my skepticism to your claim and gave you my reasons for being such when it comes to others.

 

 

Which has nothing to do with me. Literally the only thing I've discussed is my issue with the current scenario and my current belief that this actually isn't necessarily going to negatively affect the rest of the arc. Your complaints literally have nothing to do with me. So why in God's name do you insist on dragging other people into this and making their thoughts my own?

I didn't. I was dragging other people into to this so that you could tell where I was at least coming from with this regarding my skepticism.

 

You're not really being particularly respectful because you refuse to actually take my own thoughts at face value without actually mischaracterizing them via accusing others of disagreeable behavior and thus making me guilty by association, or being unreasonably suspicious based on faulty reasoning.

Okay, now your putting words in my mouth.

 

Let's just clear this up by having me say I'm not making you guility by association and I am taking your thoughts at face value. For you. 

But even with just us talking to each other, I'm not looking at just one person throughout this whole discussion regarding your claim. If you say you're not asking for 100% over this, just for yourself, then okay I leave you out of it. But if you're going to tell me that no one else is asking for that, given what I'm seeing, I'm clearly skeptical of that being the case.

 

I cannot and will not talk further about this to you because you simply refuse to acknowledge what I'm actually saying at face value. I literally can't say anything to you, and I've made my thoughts about this known well enough. So I'm done with this topic. Call me in if there's a report. *shrugs*

Well that's fine by me then.

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Can I just ask who else is asking for this imaginary 100% adaptation you keep insisting with Nepenthe on? Because if the reply is anything close to, I don't know, "Ze MMK" I'll only have a loud raspberry to you.

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*Sigh*

 

So remember a while back, when a giant flamewar wasn't going on and some people were asking about a theoretical sister book that Penders wanted to launch with Spaz that had more of a manga look?

 

This was part of the Spaz Sketchbook that took up most of issue 115 (the other half was "Meanie In A Bottle" and more boring ass Chaos Knuckles sh*t. Trust me, you aren't missing anything about that stupidity), and is, to the best of my knowledge the only thing that ever came of it, at least in a provable & concrete evidence.

 

19.jpg

 

I have no idea what the hell was up with making Snively look like that, seriously. WTF?

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Looks like Snively fused with Snake and a Metal Gear. laugh.png

 

Wonder how that project didn't come out given the freedom they had back then?

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Probably because around this time (2002), they saw just how bad the Marvel Mangaverse was tanking critically & financially and realized the manga-style boom at the time was dead in the water?

 

Plus, I'd like to think that someone, somewhere, realized that putting Penders together with anything manga/anime related would be a terrible, terrible idea, even if Spaz was willing to draw each issue with as much love and care as he does with, like, his Mega Man stuff nowadays.

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