Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[redmenace]

Damnit Redmenace. Why do you always beat me to these things

You toke the words right out of my mouth because thats exactly how I feel. In all honesty I never even considered Sally a tomboy character until I noticed Ian trying to pass her off as such. She actually doesn't fit the description of a tomboy in my opinion as well as the actual definition of the word.

True that. I know that you and I have a lot of opinions in common.

I'd like to know what makes her a tomboy. Maybe the vest? Maybe the design? I dunno, everything else is like Miko said, the duties of a ruler or a leader, and she has that since the beginning. That doesn't make it more or less female.

Sally isn't regularly consumed with her relationships to the other characters.

Because there's no "rival" for Sonic's affections and because her friends will forgive her everything. I've wondered more than once, why Mina hasn't slapped the hell out of her (especially after that shot). And Amy. It's unbelievable she hasn't thrown a fit yet because of her relationship with Sonic. And no 06 is not proof of anything. When Sally is with Sonic, nothing major shakes them up and sooner or later they're together. In between, there might be an occasional girl/boy in the couple's way but it's quickly resolved in her favour.

It's cheap and weak if Sonic is still crushing on the same girl for all these years, after all they've been through and after all the other girls he has met. The same for her, really.

And Sally looks down on people who primp and preen calling them shallow (Knuckles 29 for those who go "nuh-uuh" ).

That was a long time ago. Still, she's perfect and beautiful and all the male characters droll all over her pretty boots and lavish as how beautiful she is. Why would she care about her appearance? Everything falls on her lap easily. That's why she has neither of these worries. Edited November 1, 2009 by redmenace

[Picchi]

And Amy. It's unbelievable she hasn't thrown a fit yet because of her relationship with Sonic. And no 06 is not proof of anything.

After breaking Sonic's heart, slapping and publically humiliating him, you'd think by now that Amy would have lost respect for Sonic and Sally's relationship and Sally in general. I mean, after all, she was more than ready to hit Fiona with a hammer, but not so much as a dirty look towards Sally? Yeaaah.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Picchi

[Miko]

True that. I know that you and I have a lot of opinions in common.

I'd like to know what makes her a tomboy. Maybe the vest? Maybe the design? I dunno, everything else is like Miko said, the duties of a ruler or a leader, and she has that since the beginning. That doesn't make it more or less female.

Yes it does. And even if it didn’t, they’re not automatically associated with Sally being a girl because these qualities are being expressed as an extension of a job (that is often depicted as a DUTY and/or BURDEN to boot) rather than expression of gender. And while some people may pick a job because they think it’s “girly” or whatever, this is a job Sally was expected to have at a young age. There was no seeing if it matched up with gender identity for that argument to even hold water. Secondly, cooperation and codependence are not traits that necessarily have to be looked at as an expression of gender. Traits like co dependence, cooperation, diplomacy and the like are also values that can be found in eastern countries. So it's important that the way these qualities are expressed are done under the context of representing femininity. And secondly to restate: Sally sees this is a duty. And that's probably the worst part about it..

Because there's no "rival" for Sonic's affections and because her friends will forgive her everything.

Let's use Bunnie and Sally. Sally wasn't really there for Bunnie when it came to her break up with Antoine. It may be that, she and the others played a supporting role in the beginning (off panel). But at the very best that was a temporary sense of engagement that they eventually ignored altogether. Sally had no emotional investment in how a lack of emotional support was hurting her friend, even when she learned that as a means to cope she used her ex boyfriend. She just wasn't consumed or worried about the strength of their relationship or about how she fit in. As a result, Bunnie eventually got to the point where she'd totally disregarded the hurt and pain that Sally was going through over her relationship to Sonic and put the moves on him. Yeah, Sonic did explain away Bunnie's actions as trying to provoke Twan, but in at least one of the instances where Bunnie kissed Sonic during a mission, they had live video feed of the mission. On top of that, one way or another characters who didn't blatantly see them (Fiona) get it on eventually learned of what happened in Sonic's Angels. But the biggest clincher would be the fact Sonic acknowledged Bunnie putting moves on him, and "Patch" was nowhere to possibly be provoked the whole time. Hell "Twan" was with the king and queen on a world tour ways away from Knothole and it's afairs from 134 to 155. It was while he was gone when Bunnie put the moves on Sonic. So Sally couldn't be so stupid (especially after having to DEAL with Patch's return and all the hardships it created) to thinkh anyone would've feasibly thought he was going to be provoked when he's not even there to be informed of what's going on with Bunnie and Sonic. No, Bunnie REALLY wanted Sonic to be her boyfriend. Did it look like by what Bunnie did to Sally that she was capable of letting Sally's lack of support slide? No. By that point Bunnie had lost enough respect for her friend, that she dated an ex she knew Sally still liked and didn't even care about how Sally would feel if she found out. Sally however wasn't the least bit concerned with how that reflected the nature of their bond.

It's cheap and weak if Sonic is still crushing on the same girl for all these years, after all they've been through and after all the other girls he has met. The same for her, really.

No. That's not why it's cheap. I mean that's like saying if you crushed on the same person for years, and actually dated and nearly married them for a long time despite other potential mates, that it's cheap.

That was a long time ago. Still, she's perfect and beautiful and all the male characters droll all over her pretty boots and lavish as how beautiful she is. Why would she care about her appearance? Everything falls on her lap easily. That's why she has neither of these worries.

When Knuckles said she had a bad hair day, Sally really didn't care about it to the degree a girl worried about her appearance would and when Sally thought Mina won the triangle she didn't pretty up like Mina did when she was frustrated over her progress with Sonic. But what you're saying red is seems very akin to how many men will grow up. Men don't have images bombarding them surrounding their appearance and are generally a lot more confident or indifferent compared to women. And more importantly The level of respect society gives them doesn't so greatly depend on whether or not they look pretty or not for those images to have much meaning in the first place. So let's think about it in terms of Sally. Sally's a princess. She's going to get social perks regardless of how she looks. So she doesn't have to look at what constitutes beauty in her culture because it's not going to change how much respect she regularly receives. The people know Sally Acorn. Not just as a princess but as someone who led a group of rebels towards their freedom. No one's going to be questioning her morality, intelligence and the like. It's also known that prettier people are generally assumed to be "better" people. Like men in comparison to women, they dominate and control the culture like she does and because of that they don't have to worry as much about being judged. Male minorities may be more conscious of their appearance, but that's because they know they can be regularly demeaned and disrespected because of how they look. Sally also dresses like a guy to further implicate the notion that Sally’s views on appearance reflect a more masculine opinion than they do a feminine opinion. Worse yet, she actually associated her emotionally instable period with the feminine appearance she’d been toting and decided to go back to the boyish look when she was “in her right mind” so to speak.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Miko

[redmenace]

Yes it does. And even if it didn’t, they’re not automatically associated with Sally being a girl because these qualities are being expressed as an extension of a job (that is often depicted as a DUTY and/or BURDEN to boot) rather than expression of gender. And while some people may pick a job because they think it’s “girly” or whatever, this is a job Sally was expected to have at a young age. There was no seeing if it matched up with gender identity for that argument to even hold water. Secondly, cooperation and codependence are not traits that necessarily have to be looked at as an expression of gender. Traits like co dependence, cooperation, diplomacy and the like are also values that can be found in eastern countries. So it's important that the way these qualities are expressed are done under the context of representing femininity. And secondly to restate: Sally sees this is a duty. And that's probably the worst part about it..

I'm sorry, but since when do leaders' traits are common associated with females? This makes no sense whatsoever.

You're fanwanking to the highest degree. This, or the authors didn't show any of this "feud" between Sally and Bunnie on pannel, which is what we're discussing here. They're fine some issues down the line and isn't Sally the maid of honour of Bunnie even or something like that? I see no disregard of friendship either way. You're reading too much into it.

You know what's the problem? People are way too naive to think that love works this way outside of fiction.

I kind of agree with this. I can't agree with something though. It doesn't matter if Sally is a princess or not, to a potential LOVE interest (now a status interest or something yeah, I can see it). Personality overrules title in this scenario.

[Blazey Firekitty]

EDIT: And Blazey...your signature would be the poster image for "surprise buttsecks" macros everywhere ~

Lol, I honestly hadn't noticed that til now!XD Which is weird since I have this tendency to read innuendo into things. I guess I was so caught up with my love for those two particular characters, I didn't notice the awkward position that Yardley drew them in.

Anyways, in regards to Sally during her Long Haired period...I wouldn't personally say her girlyness or domestic-ness bothered me. Rather it was the violent mood swings she had, though those seemed to go away at some point...Maybe writing "Dear Ally" calmed her down.

[Miko]

I'm sorry, but since when do leaders' traits are common associated with females? This makes no sense whatsoever.

Leaderlike qualities are not commonly associated with females, but these are typical methods of demonstrating leadership. You cannot say "Sally is feminine because she does these things" because regardless of whether you think those duties she's fulfilling are masculine or not they are considered duties, or responsibilities handed to Sally since her birth. By Sally herself, I might add.

You're fanwanking to the highest degree. This, or the authors didn't show any of this "feud" between Sally and Bunnie on pannel, which is what we're discussing here.

I never said Bunnie and Sally were deliberately being malicious to one another for there to be a feud. Rather, they just stopped caring about how the other felt after awhile and did whatever they wanted. And even with Rotor during the reconstruction period of Mobitropolis, she wasn't at all bothered about how her decision to keep Rotor from his family would bother them, or how it'd impact their relationship. Sally just doesn't really invest herself into worrying that much about where she fits in with her friends and that was my point. I never said Bunnie was actively trying to hurt Sally. She just didn't care if Sally was hurt by what she was doing because she was desperate for approval.. And for Sally she never actively went out of her way to hurt Bunnie either, but she just didn't care enough about Bunnie's feelings to be all that bothered about the consequences that'd come about with not being very involved with supporting Bunnie.

They're fine some issues down the line and isn't Sally the maid of honour of Bunnie even or something like that? I see no disregard of friendship either way. You're reading too much into it.

I don't really think I'm reading way too much into this. Exactly how considerate is it for your best friend to go after a guy she knows you still love and are heartbroken over. How much must you mean to her if she's willing to do that? And what the hell would it say about your relationship? Yes, Bunnie and Sally made up. But that in part I blame for Ian's writing because he's brushed aside many areas of beleivable characterization in order to acheive his own ends. I'm often VERY reluctant to cite anything Ian has done, without additional support from previous writers.

I kind of agree with this. I can't agree with something though. It doesn't matter if Sally is a princess or not, to a potential LOVE interest (now a status interest or something yeah, I can see it). Personality overrules title in this scenario.

Red, the purpose of discussing her title, was to note it's impact on the character as she grew from an early age. It's not as simple as Sally having people slobber all over her. Even incredibly goregeous women are often worried about their appearance to some degree. And even the guys she's been interested in have criticized her appearance or have been attracted to other females. And she STILL, even when feeling emotionally insecure didn't run to altering her appearance to make herself feel more secure.

Even for goregeous women, they are often on edge too It's a culture that makes you never feel good enough about how you look and that's really the goal of the beauty industry. It works because women (and minorities) are routinely judged based on their appearance and need anything from lipstick to skin bleachers to make themselves feel as though they "fit in". THAT is what makes them care about it. Men (most especially white men) don't have to worry as much about being judged on even so much as their own morality due to physical attractiveness/general appearance. Sally is one of the few females that'd share that same privelege as such men. Because she has grown up to a prestegious family that automatically warants respect and positive judgement among the people. She is still masculine in her disassociation with this issue because she is priveleged and thus ignorant in the same way a man would be for very similar reasons (social presteige: Sally is a princess which is high on the social ladder, men are likewise higher than women on the social ladder).

Edited November 3, 2009 by Miko

[Aquaslash]

Slagging dick nipples! Did I really just read pages of walls of text analysis over a character title?

Sexist undertones? Are you people slaggin me? Then again, maybe I'm just oblivious to all of this. Girly girl characters aren't prominent because there are only three in the source material to begin with. One is a ditz with a hammer, one is a thieving gold digger, and one is confined to another universe altogether (or is it dimensions here). IF there's any sexism, it's most definitely on Sonic Team of Japan's part for 1. making few females to begin with, and 2. making most of them boyish or childish to a degree anyway.

In other news, I totally called Sonic light-attacking those soldiers. Nowhere in this thread of course, but still.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Aquaslash

[Flyboy Fox]

THANK YOU. I'm glad that someone else sees the utter ridiculousness of getting so worked up over a damn title. I can't believe the wangst that goes on over such silly things in this thread. Of course, I'm usually involved in it because I'm arguing against it, but still =D

[Blazey Firekitty]

I wouldn't personally consider Amy a ditz...She may be obsessive, but I can't recall a time that she's been portrayed as stupid. She still doesn't have a large role in the comic, but she's been growing into a competent Freedom Fighter as of late, at least if the Anti-Mobius story arc was any indication.

[Yong]

I wouldn't personally consider Amy a ditz...She may be obsessive, but I can't recall a time that she's been portrayed as stupid. She still doesn't have a large role in the comic, but she's been growing into a competent Freedom Fighter as of late, at least if the Anti-Mobius story arc was any indication.

The dry humping anyone that remotely looks like Sonic doesn't ring any bells?

[Blazey Firekitty]

The dry humping anyone that remotely looks like Sonic doesn't ring any bells?

Well, I'll give you that.XD But I don't think she's ever done that in Archie, mainly because she wasn't present for its version of Sonic Adventure 2.

[Flyboy Fox]

I actually find Archie Amy to be more tolerable than the games' Amy. Perhaps because she's NOT so obsessed over Sonic. She still fangirls him and flirts with him whenever she can... but it seems to me that she knows it's just a crush and she's not too upset that Sonic doesn't respond. Basically, she seems more like she's having fun than being dead serious about hooking Sonic.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I actually find Archie Amy to be more tolerable than the games' Amy. Perhaps because she's NOT so obsessed over Sonic. She still fangirls him and flirts with him whenever she can... but it seems to me that she knows it's just a crush and she's not too upset that Sonic doesn't respond. Basically, she seems more like she's having fun than being dead serious about hooking Sonic.

Yeah, it just seems like she's playfully messing with him in the same way that Sally does. For better or worse, it doesn't look like either of them will be hooked up with him any time soon.XD

Edited November 3, 2009 by BlazeyBakeneko

[redmenace]

Personally, I think Archie Amy is inconsistent and cardboard bland. Like Miko said before, she wants Sonic, but can't get annoyed at Sally and even regards her as someone to look up to (who doesn't?). Then she treis to hammer the crap out of Fiona for messing with Sonic, but never pisses off on Sally. Out of that, she doesn't appear much. The only time she was major was in the Sonic Adventure adaptation, and the pre-arc was so stupid, shallow and crazy, that it puts colourblind Amy idiocy from the games to shame. The overal arc isn't very good on her either. I can't see how obcessing less is any better than this.

The obcessing part is quick comic relief for the most part, just like Knuckles' stupidity for example. Sure that it's bad writing as well, but the games aren't there for story but gameplay, so blaming the character for it seems stupid imo. Archie on the other hand, has the responsability to be story oriented and having a crazy obcessed Amy in it would not fit. Therefore, they kept her Sonic Adventure characterization.

Leaderlike qualities are not commonly associated with females, but these are typical methods of demonstrating leadership. You cannot say "Sally is feminine because she does these things" because regardless of whether you think those duties she's fulfilling are masculine or not they are considered duties, or responsibilities handed to Sally since her birth. By Sally herself, I might add.

I still don't get what you're trying to say. It doesn't make her feminine to be a leader. Sure it's part of her personality, but she's not more feminine or more masculine because of it.

I never said Bunnie and Sally were deliberately being malicious to one another for there to be a feud. Rather, they just stopped caring about how the other felt after awhile and did whatever they wanted. And even with Rotor during the reconstruction period of Mobitropolis, she wasn't at all bothered about how her decision to keep Rotor from his family would bother them, or how it'd impact their relationship. Sally just doesn't really invest herself into worrying that much about where she fits in with her friends and that was my point. I never said Bunnie was actively trying to hurt Sally. She just didn't care if Sally was hurt by what she was doing because she was desperate for approval.. And for Sally she never actively went out of her way to hurt Bunnie either, but she just didn't care enough about Bunnie's feelings to be all that bothered about the consequences that'd come about with not being very involved with supporting Bunnie.

That's all very nice and I understand your point. What I'm trying to say is, Archie never went anywhere with it. Sally and Bunnie and Rotor are still her friends, without any kind of conflict. It's as if this didn't affect them in any single way. With this, it's safe to assume that the writers had never this in mind and therefore it's bad writing like I said before since Sally is never punished by her outrageous behaviour. If they had it in mind, then it's even worse, because they never went anywhere with it.

I don't really think I'm reading way too much into this. Exactly how considerate is it for your best friend to go after a guy she knows you still love and are heartbroken over. How much must you mean to her if she's willing to do that? And what the hell would it say about your relationship? Yes, Bunnie and Sally made up. But that in part I blame for Ian's writing because he's brushed aside many areas of beleivable characterization in order to acheive his own ends. I'm often VERY reluctant to cite anything Ian has done, without additional support from previous writers.

But that's the thing, Sally is never outraged by Bunnie's behaviour nor does Bunnie confront her in any single way besides this "sneaky" little thing. They don't care about one another, but there's no fallback at all, and they're still friends a couple of issues down the line as if nothing has happened. You're fanwanking MAKES sense but since there was no conflict then yes, you're reading too much into it. The writers are deplorable, that we can agree with. They can't introduce such a thing and expect no conflict whatsoever.

Red, the purpose of discussing her title, was to note it's impact on the character as she grew from an early age. It's not as simple as Sally having people slobber all over her. Even incredibly goregeous women are often worried about their appearance to some degree. And even the guys she's been interested in have criticized her appearance or have been attracted to other females. And she STILL, even when feeling emotionally insecure didn't run to altering her appearance to make herself feel more secure.

Even for goregeous women, they are often on edge too It's a culture that makes you never feel good enough about how you look and that's really the goal of the beauty industry. It works because women (and minorities) are routinely judged based on their appearance and need anything from lipstick to skin bleachers to make themselves feel as though they "fit in". THAT is what makes them care about it. Men (most especially white men) don't have to worry as much about being judged on even so much as their own morality due to physical attractiveness/general appearance. Sally is one of the few females that'd share that same privelege as such men. Because she has grown up to a prestegious family that automatically warants respect and positive judgement among the people. She is still masculine in her disassociation with this issue because she is priveleged and thus ignorant in the same way a man would be for very similar reasons (social presteige: Sally is a princess which is high on the social ladder, men are likewise higher than women on the social ladder).

What I didn't agree was that it had nothing to do with being a princess. There can be ugly (both inside and outside), intolerable princesses and yet they still marry because of that social ladder thing you mentioned. Wherever LOVE is concerned, that's a whole different thing, and that's what Sonic supposedly feels for her. Sally though, has no worries about anything regarding this whatsoever. That strikes me more of bad writting and Mary Sue syndrom than because of her social status. Everything falls on her lap, not because she's a princess, but because she's "perfect" in every way. That's why she's confident enough not to worry.

Slagging dick nipples! Did I really just read pages of walls of text analysis over a character title?

Sexist undertones? Are you people slaggin me? Then again, maybe I'm just oblivious to all of this. Girly girl characters aren't prominent because there are only three in the source material to begin with. One is a ditz with a hammer, one is a thieving gold digger, and one is confined to another universe altogether (or is it dimensions here). IF there's any sexism, it's most definitely on Sonic Team of Japan's part for 1. making few females to begin with, and 2. making most of them boyish or childish to a degree anyway.

In other news, I totally called Sonic light-attacking those soldiers. Nowhere in this thread of course, but still.

Er, Amy is girlish, Rouge is girlish, Cream is girlish, Marine and even Blaze are girlish. I can agree that the ratio of women/men is low, but the females' personalities aren't tied to their sex at all. Sure Rouge could be seen as a Femme Fatale, but that's the female counterpart to a Casanova, so it has nothing to do with gender.

Edited November 3, 2009 by redmenace

[Blazey Firekitty]

I figure that the inconsistencies in Bunnie and Sally's friendship is merely a symptom of this comic having a lot of trouble figuring out what to do with itself after Endgame.

[Flyboy Fox]

Amy's reaction to Fiona being different to her reaction to Sally makes sense. Amy joined the 'team' after Sally was already well-established and already had a connection with Sonic. Therefore, Amy knew of her ties to Sonic at the same time as she came to be crushing on Sonic herself. Thus, it was something she had to accept more readily, as it was already the status quo.

Fiona came in much, MUCH later and started fucking Sonic and the others around. She was classed by pretty much everyone as 'the enemy' as soon as her mind-fuckery came to light. Amy was outraged not just for herself, but because all the FFs were outraged and angry at being betrayed by someone they thought was on their side.

Completely different scenarios.

[redmenace]

Sally slapped the hell out of him. It might be different scenarios but the outcome is the same. Someone hurt Sonic and it shouldn't matter if she has known a person for longer or not. Also, I remember well before when Sally put Sonic in jail and Amy went around campaigning for his release. She wasn't pissed at Sally there either. Sure she was a child back then, which makes it even more inconsistent if she blows up fuses when she's older but not when she's a kid. It doesn't explain why Amy isn't annoyed at Sally and Sonic either. It's inconsistent and there's no way around it.

Edited November 3, 2009 by redmenace

[Flyboy Fox]

I don't see why Amy WOULD be angry... She idolised Sonic and sees that he cares for Sally, and therefore she accepts Sally because Sonic is lenient with her (Sally). As a kid, she was pretty naive and confused, so she probably didn't know what to think, either. She was just set on getting Sonic free because he was all she cared about right then.

[Blazey Firekitty]

If I recall correctly, the whole court martial thing was instigated by all of the other Freedom Fighters at the time(Except maybe Tails), and not just Sally herself.

[Flyboy Fox]

Yeah... I kinda felt that most of the OTHER characters seemed brainwashed and out-of-character in how they treated Sonic. If anything, Amy was one of the only IN character people in that whole arc for how she stood by Sonic!

[Blazey Firekitty]

Yeah... I kinda felt that most of the OTHER characters seemed brainwashed and out-of-character in how they treated Sonic. If anything, Amy was one of the only IN character people in that whole arc for how she stood by Sonic!

AH MUST DISEMBOWEL SUGAH-HOG.

[Picchi]

Sexist undertones? Are you people slaggin me?

Sometimes people do this kind of thing without even knowing/intending to do it. Just as you're probably accusing the Japanese of doing what they're doing. Ken was a radical liberal and has repeatedly made it known throughout the book. He's used primarily 90's feminist females for his works, touched on activistic themes like gun violence (despite the plothole it caused), looked down on traditional (feminine) roles and traits, and has even gone as far as to try and make Rotor gay (Check his messageboard if you don't beleive me. I am NOT making this up).

He didn't like using the more effiminate girls because he didn't understand/like them as much. Despite his good intentions, it just made him come across as sexist, because instead of promoting different types of heroines, he only wrote and promoted one type of girl while constantly dissuading the others. A common criticism of the 1990s feminist movement.

Girly girl characters aren't prominent because there are only three in the source material to begin with.

SatAM characters were also part of the source material, but you don't see Bunnie having a reoccuringingly prominent role outside her physical contributions. Amy is another top tier girl whose is almost always, like Bunnie completely ignored. And don't get me started on what they've done and haven't been doing lately to Mina. That's not even going into other girls who have or will be appearing in the comics like Cream.

IF there's any sexism, it's most definitely on Sonic Team of Japan's part for 1. making few females to begin with, and 2. making most over them boyish to a degree anyway.

You can hark on Sonic Team all you want, but it doesn't make Archie any better, nor does it change the fact that Archie can do something about it independently from Sonic Team.

I'm glad that someone else sees the utter ridiculousness of getting so worked up over a damn title

If you're talking about Sally's title, your the one who brought that up, IICR. You getting irritated also doesn't refute a thing that people have been saying about it. She's a princess. She's naturally beautiful. She was raised amongst boys, and even through the war got special treatment; all of which sheltered/kept her her from a lot of the traits or pressures girls succumbed or would have to go through. Her abilities as a leader only reflect her prowess in a job, not of what she is as a girl. I don't see how this is "getting worked up" over anything.

One could argue that the environment Sally lived in made her naturally to an extent, disconnected with people, but more specifically, with girls her age. Be that as it may though, I doubt someone like Sally would be able attract as many girl readers as perhaps the other females. She's not the kind of girl many of them would be able to relate with, which is partly why I find it silly that they're trying so hard to focus on her (and arguably Julie-su), and not so much the others who would've probably been a lot more profitable in comparison.

I don't see why Amy WOULD be angry... She idolised Sonic and sees that he cares for Sally

Sonic 'cared' for Fiona too. It doesn't change the fact Amy was giving her dirty looks or tried to bash her skull in when she broke Sonic's heart.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Picchi

[Blazey Firekitty]

Sometimes people do this kind of thing without even knowing/intending to do it. Just as you're probably accusing the Japanese of doing what they're doing. Ken was a radical liberal and has repeatedly made it known throughout the book. He's used primarily 90's feminist females for his works, touched on activistic themes like gun violence (despite the plothole it caused), looked down on traditional (feminine) roles and traits, and has even gone as far as to try and make Rotor gay (Check his messageboard if you don't beleive me. I am NOT making this up).

He didn't like using the more effiminate girls because he didn't understand/like them as much. Despite his good intentions, it just made him come across as sexist, because instead of promoting different types of heroines, he only wrote and promoted one type of girl while constantly dissuading the others. A common criticism of the 1990s feminist movement.

O_o

Wait...Are you saying that Ken's writing sucks because he was a Democrat and not a Republican?

I don't think that's what you meant, and even if it is, it's your right to hold that opinion, but I'm starting to get confused again.

[Flyboy Fox]

Wait, he wanted to make Rotor gay? That, my friend, is awesome XD Epic win. I wish I'd been able to catch that.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Wait, he wanted to make Rotor gay? That, my friend, is awesome XD Epic win. I wish I'd been able to catch that.

He implied that he was in the first "Mobius 25 years later" arc.^^ An echidna named Cobar was suggested by dialogue to be Rotor's life partner.