Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Mauro Fonseca]

Hey, congratulations, I've been specifically avoiding the zero sum for three pages now, in face been arguing against it.

 

Once more.

 

Someone posted there'd be no point in a SEGA-only comic. My point was simply "that's silly". Not "that's silly and remove Archie" (especially as I never asked for the removal of Archie characters, just of certain concepts like Freedom Fighters), I even admitted for hypotheticals that we'd have both comics going on at the same time.

Just, in response to Forte-Metallix saying there'd be no point in a SEGA-only comic and CSS saying there'd be no point in a SEGA-only comic since there's the games, me saying "no, I like comics, and there's no reason you couldn't makea  comic from the games only as a starting point".

[antyep]

I do kinda agree with the idea of removing concepts, like Freedom Fighters. I think the Freedom Fighter thing got outdated long ago, and needed to be rid of. When the reboot started, they could've started completely fresh instead of keeping as much of the old verse as they could, because, that whole plot of Sonic getting the FFs to remember the old verse was all for nothing. It was getting kinda neat to see the FFs, in the old verse, doing their own things, and I wish they done that in the new verse. That way, we, and those who doesn't like non Sega characters, can see the FFs in a whole new light, and Sonic can be the 'free-bird' the SEGA-fans enjoy him as. Like maybe Sally being part of GUN, or something.

[Kuzu]

It would honestly depend on how much you think the book can survive without them, the Freedom Fighters have been such an ingrained part of the series since the very first issue, we've been following their adventures for all of these years. Downplaying it and/or removing the concept of them is a pretty significant change in all honesty.

Like imagine if Sonic & Tails never interacted with each other for over a year, it'd be pretty jarring wouldn't it.

 

This mostly comes from the fact tho that...I don't really have an issue with the concept of the Freedom Fighters? I mean, from the very beginning I've understood they were the group the book focused on. So...I don't get this sudden rejection of them. Is it something I'm missing here?

[NomBitz]

I have to agree with antyep about the whole remembering the old verse since Ian's just going to make everyone forget it once more. I'm not a big fan about the FFs either but the way I see it is that there might be flak if Archie was to take away the FFs seeing how they were there at the beginning of the comic. In a way they did kinda change the FF characters a little compared to the old verse. And in a way the new character designs kinda looks like Archie is trying to attract more Sega Sonic fans to their comics.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I don't see any problem with the characters remaining, but I think the idea of a group name, or classification of who does what limits waaay too many things.

 

As for remembering the old verse, I think it was massively underutilized. Maybe have it be a plot point that everyone is fucking pissed at Eggman for being the reason a large sum of people were given a fate worse than death, removed from existence, never to be seen again?

In fact, both in-universe and real life have it caused be an overweight, bespectacled douche with a brown mustache.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I get what they're saying, keep the characters, not the title.

But the argument still stands. This is an alternate setting, it's a mix of the games and the cartoons, and those of us who read the comics like it for that very reason and don't want the elements thrown away after already having other concepts be removed due to the reboot.

 

Just, in response to Forte-Metallix saying there'd be no point in a SEGA-only comic and CSS saying there'd be no point in a SEGA-only comic since there's the games, me saying "no, I like comics, and there's no reason you couldn't makea  comic from the games only as a starting point".

There's no reason to dump elements the comics are preserving just because you're not a fan of them and want them gone. Even people who love the comics aren't a fan of everything that it has - I for one don't like the Black Arms being around and don't care much for Eclipse as a character, but it's not to the point that I can't just deal with it and read how he works in the story.

You aren't the only person who likes comics who matters.

[Mauro Fonseca]

You know what? I give up. This'd be like the fourth time I told you I'm not calling for the removal of anything, not right now, just saying that there WOULD be a point to a hypothetically, completely unaltering-the-Archie-Sonic-comic one, SEGA Sonic-only book. If you reply to this again saying that no, but people like Archie, you musn't remove things, I'll ignore it.

[Dejimon11]

You know what? I give up. 

You know you say that every time we have this discussion but when the topic is brought up again by somebody else you just bounce right back in.

[Adamis]

But there's the thing : the reboot happened, those concepts you don't like are in the comic and that's not going to change. Discussion about what could be is fine, not arguing about it for pages, repeatedly. We're not going to get a games-only comic anytime soon. So maybe, instead of getting angry at each others for something that's not going to happen either way, you could discuss about something else ? Maybe even find something positive to talk about, for a change ?

[Celestia]

This whole thing has got me thinking...and honestly, I'd welcome a comic separate from this one that's directly set in the game 'verse. Not sure how they'd go about doing that though considering the presumed issues with funding Archie has going on. Well, that, and what would the title be since Sonic the Hedgehog is already taken? xP

Edited August 24, 2015 by Celestia

[Forte-Metallix]

In other news, Flynn just revealed some Worlds Unite concept art for the Deadly Six's armor!

Edited August 24, 2015 by Forte-Metallix

[antyep]

This whole thing has got me thinking...and honestly, I'd welcome a comic separate from this one that's directly set in the game 'verse. Not sure how they'd go about doing that though considering the presumed issues with funding Archie has going on. Well, that, and what would the title be since Sonic the Hedgehog is already taken? xP

you remember the Sonic X comics? Ian said that doing a SEGA only comic would have more limitations than that comic. 

Yeah people say that there are enough materials in the games to have a series independent from Archie materials but the question is; Would SEGA allow it? For some odd reason, they don't like Archie to do origins for their characters.

I still think it be neat if the concept of Freedom Fighters were taken away. Yes the comics started on that, but how many fans in general understands that compared to the ones who don't. SEGA no doubt will try to attract new fans to their product, and many of these fans are pure game fans. Not saying to take out the non SEGA characters. Hell no! But I'm saying give them something new, like something based on what they were going through before the reboot, minus Mecha Sally.

Besides, who knows how long this will last? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't SEGA thought of getting rid of the SatAM chars, but Ian and crew convinced them otherwise? What if SEGA tries again and Ian has to sacrifice more to keep them around, like FF concept?

 

yeah I know I'm being negative, but forgive me for saying this, but us Sonic fans are a negative group.

[Salamander]

If they were to remove the non-game characters, it strikes me that that would be a big enough change to the universe of the comics that it really would have to go into total reboot territory.  I think it's interesting to think about how you'd do a wholly new game adaptation series starting right from Sonic 1 onwards, now, and of course you'd have enough material there that you could just do game after game with potentially no interstitial arcs at all... but it seems to me like vandalism to suggest abandoning what the comics are now for no good reason.  At the same time, though, I don't think you could run the two series contemporaneously, as the fact is I think they would wind up being pretty similar on an issue-by-issue level of art, humour, plotting.

If there was another huge legal ruckus and, hypothetical situation, they had to boot all the SatAM characters, then I think going back to the beginning and doing a pure-game-adaptation comic would be an interesting route to take.  But without that kind of impetus, a game-only comic would be a curious mix of both too different and not different enough.

Edited August 24, 2015 by FFWF

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I still think it be neat if the concept of Freedom Fighters were taken away. Yes the comics started on that, but how many fans in general understands that compared to the ones who don't. SEGA no doubt will try to attract new fans to their product, and many of these fans are pure game fans.

I have a better question: how many of those new fans who don't understand the FF concept actually find it such a big issue that it's around, and how hard is it to actually understand? On top of that, when did any of you start speaking entirely for them? And how are pure game fans more entitled to the comics anymore than the fans of the cartoons or long time fans of the comics to warrant them being given higher priority over having things their way?

Last I checked, you don't need to throw away old and long standing concepts just to make way for new fans - and that's despite the reboot doing just that for some, because even after ridding itself of other things for an almost entirely different continuity a few lingering elements of the old comic that stuck around are still enough to cause complaint.

[Kuzu]

Yea, like in terms of tone and content, how different would a Sega-only book really be from the current universe?

Like, pre-reboot sure, but right now? It would feel extremely redundant in my eyes considering the current universe is literally as close to the games while still being its own thing. Pre-reboot I'd say the original content-game adapted content ratio was 5-5, with 6-4 at the most of original content. Now? I'd say its 7-3 because there really isn't that much more original content as before. A Sega only book is not needed in my eyes, and its not because "Oh well, you're thinking about the WRONG way" but I legitimately feel anything that you could do in a Sega-only book can be done right now :V

 

Now if you want address how the original content is handled right now, then fine. Our most common subject seem to be the freedom fighters and how some people feel the concept behind them isn't needed. But...wasn't the original concept of the Freedom Fighters to be a resistance group against Eggman and his army, what about that has changed? Does Eggman not have a large army across the planet, doesn't it make sense to have a group that suppress and keep it at bay? 

I dunno, nobody has really given a convincing reason why the freedom fighter concept needs to go beyond just saying "It doesn't work", well what doesn't work about it?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I'd much rather it go the other direction and have the games' universe become canonically congruent with the comics. Like, you don't even have to have the FFs involved in the story, just say each game is a solo mission that whichever given characters from the comics go on. Or, you could say that older games happened before Sonic and co. met the others. The comics have no re-adapted anything other than Sonic Unleashed so far, and for all we know, the games the comic says have already happened did so just as we saw when they came out.

[Komodin]

 

Hm, wouldn't a Sonic comic that's set solely in the games universe be subjected to even more mandates than what the current comics are already currently under, anyway? At least with the ones we got now, there still exists some freedoms in regards to what new stuff it could do.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'd much rather it go the other direction and have the games' universe become canonically congruent with the comics. Like, you don't even have to have the FFs involved in the story, just say each game is a solo mission that whichever given characters from the comics go on. Or, you could say that older games happened before Sonic and co. met the others. The comics have no re-adapted anything other than Sonic Unleashed so far, and for all we know, the games the comic says have already happened did so just as we saw when they came out.

But that's...kinda what the comics post-reboot have done, bar the Unleashed story. The only difference is that despite the games canon events happening in the comic's canon, the reverse isn't true for the comics canon to the games.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I know. I'm saying I want the games and comics to be the same universe. That way, we cut the amount of continuity bullshit down to 2 canons (Prime and Boom), we have a more developed main canon between the comics and the games, and the Boomiverse can serve as where we can experiment with new and weird story elements before forcing them into the main series and shitting the place up then having to work with retcons and the like (lookin' at you, black arms). Because honestly, the comics have the best handle on what Sonic's world is. A place with over-the-top world geometry and locations, humans and anthros living together with not much weirdness between, a different, lower form of animals like the flickies (what do they call them? Mobinis?), a fucked up future with a futuristic hedgehog trying to save it, and one madman trying to disrupt everything and bend it to his will. I've never quite understood what part of the series' worldbuilding is done by who, but the games suck ass at it, with this whole "two worlds" thing.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Shaddy

[King Scoopa Koopa]

The only thing that bothers me about the Freedom Fighters is their name, seeing as how it has... other connotations.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

The other reason I prefer the comics take on things is the entire Eggman empire. In the games, this is a force headed entirely by one man. That's inconsequential as fuck, considering what one hedgehog can do to all of his robots (and it's not like Sonic is the only capable person). The comic books, though? This is one fat fucking bastard. He forces his troops into slavery by threats, overbearing machines and possible bombs in the chest cavity (is that still a thing?). Having an Egg boss to fight at the end of a level rather than just Eggman in whatever next machine would add so much variety, because these are other people. There could be moral dilemmas about this shit. Because GUN has some corruption, the Kingdom of Acorn is dysfunctional, and these people might not be able to leave and join the resistance because of the controlling power, but also because they might think the other option is worse. You'd wonder who is really in the right or wrong because all of these people have to be fighting Sonic for some reason. Not everyone here is evil, they're just trying to survive. In the games, it's just robots. Robots and nothing else. In the comics, the Eggman empire is a god damned EMPIRE.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I know I was one of the first to say I'd like the Freedom Fighters concept to go, but to be clear, I personally don't think it's that big a deal. I'm more concerned about bigger issues which I thought that getting rid of the FF's concept might help solve, like the Freedom Fighter characters getting more clearly distinct, interesting characterization and not overtaking the game characters in focus. But both of those can definitely be solved without ditching the team concept. The first can be solved by improving the writing in that area and separating the characters more often, and the latter can be solved without ruining things by fans of those characters by simply making some arcs more focused on game characters and others more focused on FF's (Champions and many SU arcs are clear examples of the former). Even I, someone who's more interested in the game guys, would still like some more FF-heavy arcs every once in a while, as it's nice to have some variety and there are certainly things I like about them. Plus, they're just a part of the comic, and thus a part of, well, Sonic. I don't really want to see them be marginalized to an excessive degree. I just want, well, balance. And that's certainly achievable under the current "system".

If getting rid of the Freedom Fighters concept really would create a lot of consternation for a lot of people, I wouldn't go for it - at least not now. If they were going to implement it, it might be better to wait until the rebooted 'verse is just a little older, and in the meantime start gradually showing the Freedom Fighters apart more often and establishing a bit more independence for the members, and even maybe showing them dividing up into smaller teams, so it doesn't come "all at once".

[Wittymations]

 In the comics, the Eggman empire is a god damned EMPIRE.

This is essentially what I love about the comics and WHY I want the Freedom Fighters to stay, but it's less the title and what it means. Eggman is extremely powerful here (probably was toned down a lot post-reboot, but he still has a lot of power). The point is that Eggman has a large share of the world and it's needed to have a force to fight against him. The group could be named anything or not, it's the Eggman Empire being so powerful that I love, the FF are just the consequence of that concept's existence, villain causes hero.

 

Otherwise, it's just a bunch of random adventures about Sonic and Eggman is the main villain, I guess -- apparently, for some reason, which is what the games are, and... they don't interest me.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

This is essentially what I love about the comics and WHY I want the Freedom Fighters to stay, but it's less the title and what it means. Eggman is extremely powerful here (probably was toned down a lot post-reboot, but he still has a lot of power). The point is that Eggman has a large share of the world and it's needed to have a force to fight against him. The group could be named anything or not, it's the Eggman Empire being so powerful that I love, the FF are just the consequence of that concept's existence, villain causes hero.

 

Otherwise, it's just a bunch of random adventures about Sonic and Eggman is the main villain, I guess -- apparently, for some reason, which is what the games are, and... they don't interest me.

Plus the fact that an episode of Adventure of Sonic have more plot than any of the games after Colours. That, and in the games, with Potac and Graff, the majority of characters suck, the majority of jokes suck, and the story sucks.

[SpyroZap]

The concept art of the Deadly Six's armors looks better than the actual armor. I wonder why they didn't use them.