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Toby

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So I've talked about this before, but with the way production on the archives and select books seems to have halted, would you guys prefer if we were to start getting standalone graphic novels chronicling the events of the post-SGW universe before the Unleashed adaptation? So that we could actually understand things like why Silver was apparently present during the Colors adaptation, or what the actual, non-bullshit story of Shadow could be?

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So, I mentioned a while back that I believed the yellow helmet Egg Boss could be a shrew.

Here's a Northern Tree Shrew. His design looks similar to the animal.

Anyone agree/disagree?

I disagree, but purely on what info we have. The one region we know that hasn't got an Egg Boss is a place called Tralius, which is likely to be analogous to Australia. A Northern Tree Shrew wouldn't fit that, would it?
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I disagree, but purely on what info we have. The one region we know that hasn't got an Egg Boss is a place called Tralius, which is likely to be analogous to Australia. A Northern Tree Shrew wouldn't fit that, would it?

There are two more areas that are unknown. Let's see what the other areas are.

Are there any extinct Australian-based shrews?

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The other two areas seem reserved for extra-important members that are supposed to be big surprises, I doubt this guy is part of those. 

And it doesn't look like there have ever been any shrew populations in Australia. 

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The other two areas seem reserved for extra-important members that are supposed to be big surprises, I doubt this guy is part of those. 

And it doesn't look like there have ever been any shrew populations in Australia. 

We already know of 11 Egg Bosses (Axel, Mordred, Tundra, Clove, Thunderbolt, Akhlut, Nethphys, Conquering Storm, Kukku XV, Jellyfish Girl, and Yellow Helmet), so who is extremely special and willing to work with Eggman that we don't know about? And what areas could be made with the two unknown locations?

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The Battle Kukku are technically still an unknown entity, and being the major player he was pre-reboot, he would have been one of the location question marks (if he is one). The other is still a mystery...although some are theorising Snively. 

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So I've talked about this before, but with the way production on the archives and select books seems to have halted, would you guys prefer if we were to start getting standalone graphic novels chronicling the events of the post-SGW universe before the Unleashed adaptation? So that we could actually understand things like why Silver was apparently present during the Colors adaptation, or what the actual, non-bullshit story of Shadow could be?

That would be awesome. It'd be a cool and honestly smart idea to actually show the re-told stories of the game canon from Archie's perspective.

Silver being in the Colors adaptation means that it was obviously based off the DS version of Colors ( where almost every character was present.) 

Don't know what to say about Shadow though.

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Going into territory like that can be quite tricky. If it was with the comic-exclusive characters and events we'd be all hunky dory, but depicting certain events and games in different way might bring the ire of SEGA to them (for example, I don't think they'd want the comic to confirm a particular path in Shadow when the point of it was that it was open-ended (even with the final ending), and have you seen how much sneaking around Ian's doing to make Chaotix canon in the comic? It's not to the games so he's avoiding showing anything explicit between Mighty and the Chaotix in the past. 

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Well yeah, but they're already telling the Unleashed storyline however the hell they want, so what exactly is stopping them from doing it with other games? At the most, it would require them to change the reprints so that whenever it refers to a certain game it instead refers to each arc of these other books.

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Going into territory like that can be quite tricky. If it was with the comic-exclusive characters and events we'd be all hunky dory, but depicting certain events and games in different way might bring the ire of SEGA to them (for example, I don't think they'd want the comic to confirm a particular path in Shadow when the point of it was that it was open-ended (even with the final ending), and have you seen how much sneaking around Ian's doing to make Chaotix canon in the comic? It's not to the games so he's avoiding showing anything explicit between Mighty and the Chaotix in the past. 

With Shadow, at least one possible scene from the game was confirmed to be canon during Shadow Fall (the scene where Tower confronts and attempts to shoot him).

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With Shadow, at least one possible scene from the game was confirmed to be canon during Shadow Fall (the scene where Tower confronts and attempts to shoot him).

The events from the Sky Troops stage may also be part of that timeline. There's a panel flashing back to Doom and Shadow talking that resembles the opening cutscene of that level.

I'd be a little curious how it was all arranged in the comics timeline, or if Flynn chose the most ideal route/story path and filled in some blanks to tie it into the Last Story.

(EDIT: I think I was thinking of Air Fleet at the same time)

Edited by Zaysho
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Really, Shadow's plot elements for each path were so fucking minor and vague that you could very easily tell elements of every plot mixed into one. Like, Shadow helps Doom launch Sky Troops, and also is threatened by Abe Tower, and also begins questioning if he's a robot, but it's all resolved as he gradually gains more and more of his memory before finishing off Doom.

I would also prefer if this is what transitions Shadow's personality from quiet mysterious guy to cocky realist, since despite getting them back, he still remains a person who had amnesia and is different as a result. Like, he's more secure in his position knowing all this stuff and then has room to actually gain a personality.

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Well yeah, but they're already telling the Unleashed storyline however the hell they want, so what exactly is stopping them from doing it with other games?

Sega. Everything goes by them, and if they say "no" then that's -technically- where the line is draw on what they can't do (I say technically, because Ian has gotten away with certain things under their radar from what I'm hearing). That's also very much the reason they're being allowed to tell the Unleashed storyline how they're doing it, as they would have no doubt been told otherwise if they were to do it strictly to the games.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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Well then why exactly would Sega be less lenient about Shadow than this? I mean, I don't think anyone wants 11 separate arcs produced for one game based on it's different endings.

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I dunno. You'd have to take that up with them, because it's really just a matter of what they say is allowed or not.

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But then why did you bring it up in the first place if you didn't actually know? I mean, I never said that these hypothetical post-SGW adaptations would be completely different from the source material, or that they'd have any more freedom with those than the current saga.

Edited by Shaddy Joestar Dreemurr
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I wonder if it's a matter of developing the SEGA characters or not? Almost every active SEGA character that's re-appeared in the book behaves as they do post-development, especially Shadow and Blaze. Maybe they want Archie building from that instead of reintroducing characters the general readership and target audience is already familiar with or keeping Archie from doing too much of their own thing the characters anymore.

Unleashed wasn't exactly a title heavy on character development, and its themes of exploration and friendship makes it a little more open to interpreting, and it serves as a good backdrop to introduce this world especially after "Worlds Collide."

I dunno, I'm just making a wild guess here. SEGA makes rules, Flynn finds creative ways to bend them without breaking them.

Edited by Zaysho
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My reasons were never about why they haven't done this, just why exactly it couldn't be done in theory.

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But then why did you bring it up in the first place if you didn't actually know? I mean, I never said that these hypothetical post-SGW adaptations would be completely different from the source material, or that they'd have any more freedom with those than the current saga.

Because that's basically the answer to your question - however hypothetical it is, them telling one thing from the games but not the other is likely because Sega is giving them the yes or no to how they can or cannot handle the material. That's it. That's the bottom line as far as anyone can tell. Otherwise, they'd have done so already given how ripe things like Shadow is for fixing and clarification. Which is also the reason why they're telling Unleashed differently from the games - because Sega is allowing them to do so.

Really, it all points to Sega over why they can or can't do something.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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Opening my mouth about things I really shouldn't talk about because I'm not allowed to by the comics fans.

Sega. Everything goes by them, and if they say "no" then that's -technically- where the line is draw on what they can't do (I say technically, because Ian has gotten away with certain things under their radar from what I'm hearing). That's also very much the reason they're being allowed to tell the Unleashed storyline how they're doing it, as they would have no doubt been told otherwise if they were to do it strictly to the games.

 You mean how he kept violating, bending or otherwise flat out ignoring all those mandates he keeps talking about when it suits him.

Like the magically violated so often its a joke. "Sonic can't have a girlfriend" Mandate which more brutally read as "Sonic can't have a girlfriend unless its Sally" after Flynn took over.

Or how about the dumb ass and easily broken. "SEGA cast must only wear their game outfit at all times." believe it or not, this is a mandate according To Ian Flynn as he confirmed it when I asked why the SEGA cast never wore any of their other game outfits.

I'll just flat out say it as I quit reading the comic after the rebooted comic presented me with so many wallbanger moments  and bouts of OCCness from both the main comic and Sonic Universe that I just cancelled my subscription that same day I got those three issues in the mail. There are no mandates for this comic, the mandates is a big ugly lie that it is used by the writers as an excuse whenever they're caught making goof or need an excuse to explain they they don't want to write that or include this or that from the games.

From what I've seen of the present comic storyline it ass pretty much deviated so much from the actual story line that's simply not an Adaption of Sonic Unleashed anymore, you have as few characters from the story present as possible, a mountain of OC's running amuck and a plot line that's just barely following the basic plot of the game when it becomes absolutely needed to while also blending into it a secondary adaption of the Master Emerald treasure hunting plots from Sonic Adventure one and two.

What there is in my eyes is SEGA little gestapo control group that keeps the current writers from running amuck like Ken Pender's, Karl Brollers and all the old Archie writers did by reading the scripts and watching the sketches to escape the dark days of the late nineties and early two thousands when the writers and artist took turns making the comic an internet joke.

Really, it all points to Sega over why they can or can't do something.

As it should be, SEGA owns the copyright and Trademarks so they have the final say on what goes.

Because really, Archie have proven time and again in the past that unless they're watched by a gestapo like entity they'll sink Sonic down to a level of mockery that not even SEGA at their worst have archived. You can say what you want about Boom and the games but at least they didn't put Sonic into High School, had him stuck in a four to five year long threesome romance plot tumor solved by one girl getting shot or presented him as such a massive self absorbed  douchebag that he flat out calls Tails his little groupie b**** right in front of Tails parents with a rape face. 

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Opening my mouth about things I really shouldn't talk about because I'm not allowed to by the comics fans

If all you were going to do spout out inciting, nonsensical crap, you probably should have kept it shut.

 

You mean how he kept violating, bending or otherwise flat out ignoring all those mandates he keeps talking about when it suits him.

Like the magically violated so often its a joke. "Sonic can't have a girlfriend" Mandate which more brutally read as "Sonic can't have a girlfriend unless its Sally" after Flynn took over.

You mean the mandate that he hasn't broken since they started enforcing it and one that you're completely lying about him violating?

 

Or how about the dumb ass and easily broken. "SEGA cast must only wear their game outfit at all times." believe it or not, this is a mandate according To Ian Flynn as he confirmed it when I asked why the SEGA cast never wore any of their other game outfits.

Which regardless of whether it's a mandate or not, is a big issue how?

 

I'll just flat out say it as I quit reading the comic after the rebooted comic presented me with so many wallbanger moments  and bouts of OCCness from both the main comic and Sonic Universe that I just cancelled my subscription that same day I got those three issues in the mail.

Good for you. Now run along and find something else to enjoy instead of throwing trivial hissy fits like this and leave us who enjoy this alternate setting in peace like we've been doing to others in return. I barely even like Sonic Boom, but you will not see a single post of mine in any of its topics disparaging the differences it does like you're doing here.

 

As it should be, SEGA owns the copyright and Trademarks so they have the final say on what goes.

Because really, Archie have proven time and again in the past that unless they're watched by a gestapo like entity they'll sink Sonic down to a level of mockery that not even SEGA at their worst have archived. You can say what you want about Boom and the games but at least they didn't put Sonic into High School, had him stuck in a four to five year long threesome romance plot tumor solved by one girl getting shot or presented him as such a massive self absorbed  douchebag that he flat out calls Tails his little groupie b**** right in front of Tails parents with a rape face.

Ah yes, the stuff that almost everyone here (including die hard Ian Flynn fans) dislikes and have been very critical of. Because we totally love everything about the comics that we worship everything that comes out of it, right? :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but knock off the nonsense because you're being absolutely foolish. Yeah Boom and the games didn't put Sonic into high school, a multi-year long romance plot tumor, or being too much of a douchebag, but that doesn't excuse the crap they themselves have produced like demonic man-eating aliens, time traveling plot tumors, overly safe, watered down, and sometimes disjointed as hell plots where Tails throws a bitchfit out of no where over Sonic not trusting him, and having the characters act like they're in a comedic sitcom posing as an action story either. (and Boom fans, please note that I'm playing Devil's Advocate on that last part) Given how much worse the Games were at least, I'd much rather enjoy the bad stuff from the comics - their problems never risked destroying the franchise's reputation.

And it still amazes me how Boom is treated as the alternate setting it is, but the comics aren't allowed to be their own alternate thing even with Sega's oversight. You'd think even before the lawsuit sparked the reboot that people would have kept in mind it wouldn't be entirely like the games from the get go from by the simple fact that the Freedom Fighters are still around.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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Opening my mouth about things I really shouldn't talk about because I'm not allowed to by the comics fans.

Nobody says this. Don't be mad because people who read the comic disagree with you. I'm getting really tired of seeing this attitude.

 

 You mean how he kept violating, bending or otherwise flat out ignoring all those mandates he keeps talking about when it suits him.

I'm pretty sure Flynn has outright said--and I'm paraphrasing here--"there's many ways to skin a mandate." He plays by SEGA's rules, that doesn't mean he has to adhere to them strictly.

 

 Like the magically violated so often its a joke. "Sonic can't have a girlfriend" Mandate which more brutally read as "Sonic can't have a girlfriend unless its Sally" after Flynn took over.

Other than typical shipping stuff that's not exactly exclusive to this comic, he never actually put them back together (M25YL was already of debatable canon). But, whatever.

 

 Or how about the dumb ass and easily broken. "SEGA cast must only wear their game outfit at all times." believe it or not, this is a mandate according To Ian Flynn as he confirmed it when I asked why the SEGA cast never wore any of their other game outfits.

Or SEGA only wants them appearing how they always appear in the games and ignore one-offs. The only exception I can think of is Rouge's Heroes outfit, which seemed to be more artist's choice than a directive by anyone. But really, what's the problem?

 

 I'll just flat out say it as I quit reading the comic after the rebooted comic presented me with so many wallbanger moments  and bouts of OCCness from both the main comic and Sonic Universe that I just cancelled my subscription that same day I got those three issues in the mail. There are no mandates for this comic, the mandates is a big ugly lie that it is used by the writers as an excuse whenever they're caught making goof or need an excuse to explain they they don't want to write that or include this or that from the games.

Or there are certain things Flynn can't write around no matter how he approaches SEGA's rules. There are things he has leeway on, there are things he doesn't. And, fine, you gave the book a chance and it didn't suit you, move on.

 

 From what I've seen of the present comic storyline it ass pretty much deviated so much from the actual story line that's simply not an Adaption of Sonic Unleashed anymore, you have as few characters from the story present as possible, a mountain of OC's running amuck and a plot line that's just barely following the basic plot of the game when it becomes absolutely needed to while also blending into it a secondary adaption of the Master Emerald treasure hunting plots from Sonic Adventure one and two.

 It's less an adaptation and more using the basis of the game as a backdrop to explore this new universe, which is neither like the old or even the games. It follows some similar beats, but it takes a different path, and fleshes out the world and gives the characters more to do in the process, to get to the same conclusion. What's wrong with that? It's not the games.

 

What there is in my eyes is SEGA little gestapo control group that keeps the current writers from running amuck like Ken Pender's, Karl Brollers and all the old Archie writers did by reading the scripts and watching the sketches to escape the dark days of the late nineties and early two thousands when the writers and artist took turns making the comic an internet joke.

It's called the SEGA licensing department and they review and approve everything in the book. If you don't like something in the book, take it up with them, because they're actually letting Archie do things their way so long as they respect the core rules SEGA had put in place during Pellerito's time as editor.

Edited by Zaysho
Edited to break up quotes.
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Although it should be mentioned, intentional or not the constant reveal of mandates to the audience does feel like a diversion at times. Surely there's a reason writers being as candid about the process as Ian are rare :P

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