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Your anaysis of comic book eggman is fair. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying i'm not fond of him actually being threatening. I never took the guy seriously as all. 

Your more than entitled to your opinion, but when you say stuff like that... its a loaded statement.

If you want to stand here and tell me you would prefer a goofier Eggman, that's all fine and well. But if you want to say that you outright NEVER took the doctor as a serious or threatening figure, then that would imply;

-That you didn't feel him threatening when he held an iron grip over families via robotization

-That you felt he wasn't serious when he sent robotized FF's to handle the dirty work of terrorizing their own hometowns and families (recurring theme btw Sonic, Sally, Carl Condor, Gen D'Collete, ect, ect)

-That you didn't find it sickening when he brain wiped half a race, and then did the same to Charmy right in front of his helpless friends and family

-That you didn't see him as menacing when he secretly implanted his own foot soldiers with explosives to keep them in line.

-That you didn't find him overbearing when he was willing to have his universe collapse to deny Sonic a victory

-That you didn't see Eggman as not playing around when he declared final victory over Snivley and walked off with the ultimate game over

 

I could go on and on, but I mean, for lack of a better word, seriously what more do you want? Does he have to kill a guy before he can be recognized as a serious threat? Because you can scratch that off the list too. He's sponsored more than a handful of Genocides. Albion got bombed to dust and its inhabitants got used as fuel. Station Square's most elite team of merc's? They all caught biopsies and are living shells now. Even indirectly, he's responsible for polluting Meropolis and that Nuclear Fallout bubble was his doing as well.

 

You can say you'd rather have him be a goofball, but you'd have to overlook quite a bit to say you've never been able to take him seriously. If you can overlook all the Genocide, all the deviousness in the "game" he plays with his subordinates, all the times he's pitted brother against brother and the very concept of what the Egg Grapes were meant to do, and still say that you never took him seriously with a straight face... then yeah. You're leaving me scratching my head a bit on that one.

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You seem to be ignoring the thing where I said, i think multiple where I said. the comic book version of eggman That's actually evil and threatening,and I don't like that one. And I could never take game eggman seriously and I much preferred it that way. 

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Game Eggman also gets Final Egg Blaster. Didn't that blow up a star cluster? A star cluster likely had a number of solar systems in it. We know aliens exist in Sonic. So. he's very likely destroyed a few home planets. That's all chance basis, but that shows some super firepower, there.

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you could make the same argument about GameEggman though. Despite being more upfront with his antic's you're still talking about a guy who

 

-Used the Death Egg to push Angel Island into the Ocean

-Made his name by trapping cute fuzzy animals inside death machines

-Polluted like crazy (Oil Ocean anyone)

-Shot a nuke at station square

-Detonated the planet... more than once

-Blew off half the moon

-Killed everyone stationed on Metal Harbor

-Enslaved entire races and used them for fuel

-Brainwashed Tails and immediately had him go after Sonic. (quite giddy about that one too)

 

At what point are we supposed to not take at least some of that seriously. Are you sure your not just being blinded by his highly entertaining and well voice acted persona?

The old games are presented in a way in which its super cartooney, and the adventure era ones always billed him as someone behind a larger scheme by someone else. 

Also I think I mentioned this before, but bowser from mario , was legitimately about to take over the entirety of all space time in one game. You don't bowser seriously, or at least I don't. General Armstrong from metal gear rising reverence was going to restart up the war economy by getting the president assassinated and using a gaint metal gear to scape goat parts of the middle east as to having nuclear weapons, so he can then run for president on a bush esque revenge campaign and create a bootstrapped, survival of the fitest America. Now you might be like, that sounds very serious. Why didn't you take that seriously? You aren't supposed to, the man is a cartoon, a characture. The guy steals kids from the middle of south american countries and takes their brains so they do direct to brain child solider training. The game later acknowledges its a game, and all in all silly. Those children, much like the folks at metal harbor, were more or less story points than anyone you were supposed to actually feel for. Even sonic characters forget he actually killed a bunch of people at metal harbor, because they are later standing beside him mourning shadow, ( little did they know that would be unnecessary) , i mean sonic would remember that? he was there? Eggman almost killed him . Shouldn't he be enraged by the loss of human life?

Its because sonic doesn't even take it seriously. You don't think bowser terriforming the planet and messing up bunches of ecosystems was horrible? You don't think that king dedede' stealing all his peoples food and inviting kirby to a damn death wrestling tournament , twice was horrible? But you aren't meant to think about it longer than a plot device. its literally there to cause motivation and little more substance added to that. There are no ramifications for these actions, rouge was a damn gun agent she should have arrested eggman on the spot? Or killed him, Gun ain't above that. But does she , nope. Because eggman isn't important, it doesn't matter bowser never gets punished besides slapstick for kidnapping kingdom's princess, which has a whole lot of other unfortunate implications considering his " love" for her, if you actually think about it, or choose to take it seriously. Nor does King dedede, or bunches of other cartoony game villians. Because that's the point. Its a damn cartoon.

There are few that actually address it, mega-man actually attempted to murder Wiley.He was tired of his shit. But outside of exceptions like those, no one gets repercussions from the horrid acts they commit. Its always " aww doh eggman golly geee, you killed all those people, i'll be way past cool and get you next time" when the main characters give that man that type of cadence.Even shadow in the recent mobile game sonic runners, gives the eggman the same speach you would give your stubborn grandpa. How on Yuji Naka's green hill zone, am I supposed to take this person seriously seriously? You know who they take seriously? Biohazard, chaos, Mephilis, the... genie... folks ( oh god I forgot their names) Black doom, metal sonic gets taken more seriously than eggman. The people behind it all. But eggman always gets brushed to the side, like some children trying to play at the big boy table. 

So I turn the question to you , when nothing takes eggman's actions seriously, why do you choose to?

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Its because sonic doesn't even take it seriously.

....wait, what?

Sonic doesn't take Eggman seriously?

If that's the case, why does he go out of his way to stop Eggman every single time?

If my friends were stuffed inside robots and forced to be living battery slaves, I think I would take the situation seriously.

What makes you think he's not taking it seriously? The fact he can still smile, even in stressful situations? The fact that he sometimes cracks jokes during battle?

There are no ramifications for these actions, rouge was a damn gun agent she should have arrested eggman on the spot? Or killed him, Gun ain't above that. But does she , nope.

Was that her original mission though? I thought it was originally to find out about Project Shadow....and to try to get the emeralds for her private collection.

Why send a thief to kill someone?

But outside of exceptions like those, no one gets repercussions from the horrid acts they commit.

Well...

-he's been injured multiple times and almost been killed by his creations, the monsters he tries to control, and his own family (Gerald Robotnik and Eggman Nega)

-he got trapped in a dimension with himself, where time didn't exist

-he's slowly starting to act more recklessly with each scheme. Even geniuses aren't immune from going insane...

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Even then, the reason as shown in plenty of issues is that Sonic cracks jokes to keep Eggman off his game, to easily anger him, so he'll be more hasty, and end up making more mistakes. #175 even showed it when Eggman began taunting Sonic, causing Sonic to begin slipping up and making mistakes that Eggman easily takes advantage of. There's no other place that shows it better than Turnabout is Fair Play where Sonic begins taunting Eggman so much that he accidentally slips up and reveals his weak point for the spider-bot.

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....wait, what?

Sonic doesn't take Eggman seriously?

If that's the case, why does he go out of his way to stop Eggman every single time?

If my friends were stuffed inside robots and forced to be living battery slaves, I think I would take the situation seriously.

What makes you think he's not taking it seriously? The fact he can still smile, even in stressful situations? The fact that he sometimes cracks jokes during battle?

 

Was that her original mission though? I thought it was originally to find out about Project Shadow....and to try to get the emeralds for her private collection.

Why send a thief to kill someone?

 

Well...

-he's been injured multiple times and almost been killed by his creations, the monsters he tries to control, and his own family (Gerald Robotnik and Eggman Nega)

-he got trapped in a dimension with himself, where time didn't exist

-he's slowly starting to act more recklessly with each scheme. Even geniuses aren't immune from going insane...

So in order

Obligation at this point, heck I mention it before, but the cadence they give him is taking your grandpa to a grocery store and he starts acting a fool. In sonic runners after shadow blows up death egg number 1676398337, the line delivered to eggman is basically that. And much like your grandpa at the grocery store, while he isn't really much of a threat, he can ruin someone's day so you stop him from him embarrassing himself and keep it moving. Mean while you happen to be a detective and are solving some murder's and tracking down someone who's actually a bad guy. That's eggman at this point, heck that's been eggman for a while. A crazy grandpa in the condiments section. You beat the bad guy because its the video game, its really obligation. Little character motivation. Just sonic is video game, you play video game you beat badguy in video game. Video game badguy, badguy video game. That's kinda what sonic in general  has become at this point. 

Again if that battery thing was treated like a bad thing , then sure. But it isn't, and is never really given the cadence it deserves.

The fact he isn't after beating him, taking him to gun, or some police force, or court or something. Just letting him go with his machines, sonic know's he comes back he always does . Everyone else does the same, shadow works for gun.... I think maybe... he's a merc, but he has some connection. Shadow in sonic runners is like " common doctor stop" instead of " stop you genocidal criminal building death stars". Its not about smiling, spiderman smiles but he's damn sure if he can to take those super villians to he police. He doesn't do anything about eggman, he doesn't make sure he's gone or if he is there take him to the police. No one does. 

If gun saw a minacial maniac about to blow up the planet and sent an investigation mission only , or rather if gun knew what shadow was because they had info and was keeping him, and eggman got shadow and they only went for info about shadow, they might be the stupidest military organization in the history of ever. " We need infor on that thing we have been keeping and know all about " And the arc we could have investigated by ourselves. Then again shadow  was quick to join them for the " greater good" maybe he was trying to guide a powerful boat lead by idiots. Then again if the comic is any indication they don't like him ( maybe that should be an arc maybe... someone at gun frames and turns against shadow, and gun is after him including rouge and omega, I would ready that. Ian fugitive shadow pls)

1) if its not him it doesn't count especially Gerald because Gerald shit was his own. Also Oh, he gotta booboo, that's cool. I bet you those people in that galaxy he blew up, or all those folks on that island, I bet you they wish they only had booboo. But instead they had the biggest boo boo. Not being alive. 

2) Being trapped in dimension would mean more if in the next game he wasn't totally fine, much like cartoons forgetting what happened in the last episode.

3) i'm going to need proof for that. 

Edited by Shadowlax

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The old games are presented in a way in which its super cartooney, and the adventure era ones always billed him as someone behind a larger scheme by someone else. 

The old games also had rather serious undertones speaking toward environmentalism and man vs nature. Present that any way you want, its still there and its still a hallmark of the classics and the series as a whole.

The modern era games did have him take second fiddle behind a few baddies, but also featured a handful of games where he didn't. Sure he played behind characters like Chaos, Gerald and Mephilies, but he's been the big bad up front or behind the scenes in enough games (Advance, Battle, Rush, Rush Adventure, Gens, Lost World, ect) to the point where you can't bank on him being that backseat baddie in every encounter

 

Even sonic characters forget he actually killed a bunch of people at metal harbor, because they are later standing beside him mourning shadow, ( little did they know that would be unnecessary) , i mean sonic would remember that? he was there? Eggman almost killed him . Shouldn't he be enraged by the loss of human life?

Cause Sonic is the character that totally holds grudges and is easily enraged right?

On top of that, reflecting on Shadows death was the first moment of downtime for any of the characters since the adventure started. Considering Eggman had just buried the hatchet (however temporarily) and had just helped Sonic's team save the entire planet (all the characters worked together to do that), that was not the time or place to pick a fight.

 

Its because sonic doesn't even take it seriously.

I'm not even sure that I need to address this one.

If Sonic didn't take the threat seriously, he wouldn't put it on his own shoulders to go out there, put his own life on the line, to stop the doctor every single time.

 

Because that's the point. Its a damn cartoon.

and you're point?

Pretty sure there are plenty of cartoons and games, where the villain goes around doing despicable things and gets little more than a slap on the wrist as a punishment. For all the Bowser's you want to throw out there, I could counter it with a Joker. Someone who is also a cartoon. A propped up super character who is unquestionably evil and taken very seriously, has an unaccountably high body count, but still always ends up back on the streets by dinnertime.

Just because its a cartoon doesn't make it an automatic dismissal from having its characters be seen in a serious light from time to time.

 

There are few that actually address it, mega-man actually attempted to murder Wiley.He was tired of his shit. But outside of exceptions like those, no one gets repercussions from the horrid acts they commit. Its always " aww doh eggman golly geee, you killed all those people, i'll be way past cool and get you next time" when the main characters give that man that type of cadence.

Eh, didn't Shadow ice Eggy in more than a few endings of his game though?

And to bring back the example of Batman

"aw gosh jimminy jimikers Batman, Joker sure went and did it this time. Look as all those people he killed"

"I won't stand for this. Lets go punch him in the face 15 times, send him to jail, watch him escape and do this all again tomorrow night"

...

Sound familiar? Cause its the same song and dance Sonic and Eggman are doing, with a different coat of paint. No consequences, no repercussions. Wash, rinse, repeat. Its the same song and dance pretty much all shows who feature main villains as main characters have. You can't kill them off every episode lest you'd have no story to tell.

 

 

The people behind it all. But eggman always gets brushed to the side, like some children trying to play at the big boy table.

you keep saying "always". Like I showed you above, and have been saying for a good while now, Eggman has been the big boy at the table enough to make that claim irrelevant. You can't ignore the multitude of games where Eggman either is or usurps the position of big bad just because its convenient for your argument.

You use that claim as the lynch-pin of your argument. You can't take Eggman seriously when he's getting shown up by someone else. Yet, to that end, you can do little more than put your foot in your mouth when you've got no response for how you feel when Eggman is the one stealing or outright running the show. It addresses your biggest problem. You can't push that under the rug.

 

So I turn the question to you , when nothing takes eggman's actions seriously, why do you choose to?

So Knuckles wasn't taking the doctor seriously when he teamed up with his rival Sonic to bring him down?

So the government wasn't taking him seriously when they send their best spy to keep tabs on him?

Sonic wasn't taking his threats seriously when he told Tails to step up and for Amy to take care ahead of being sent to his death?

Sonic wasn't taking the threat seriously when he (unprovoked mind you) took it on himself to investigate and shut down Eggman's interstellar amusement park?

 

cause all that sounds like the actions of a set of characters who are pretty pro-active in defeating Eggman. You wouldn't have to need to be proactive if you didn't feel threatened or afraid of the possible result of inaction.

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Obligation at this point, heck I mention it before, but the cadence they give him is taking your grandpa to a grocery store and he starts acting a fool.

...I'm having a very hard time seeing Dr. Eggman grocery shopping. Wouldn't he send robots to do something like that for him? That's very out of character for him and my grandfather.

Again if that battery thing was treated like a bad thing , then sure. But it isn't, and is never really given the cadence it deserves.

When was the last time Sonic wasn't saving animals or aliens from Badniks and Prison Capsules?

Sonic Heroes, Sonic 06, and Sonic Unleashed? 3 out of how many games that have Badniks and Prison Capsules?

The fact he isn't after beating him, taking him to gun, or some police force, or court or something.

What prison could hold Engman? If a dimension without time can't hold him, what will?

If gun saw a minacial maniac about to blow up the planet and sent an investigation mission only , or rather if gun knew what shadow was because they had info and was keeping him, and eggman got shadow and they only went for info about shadow, they might be the stupidest military organization in the history of ever. "

Well, they did videotape Gerald Robotnik saying his revenge as his last words....AND DID NOTHING ABOUT IT FOR 50 YEARS.

Speaking of which, why did GUN execute him again? Wasn't he working with/for them? Was that ever explained in Adventure 2 or ShadTH?

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Speaking of which, why did GUN execute him again? Wasn't he working with/for them? Was that ever explained in Adventure 2 or ShadTH?

He refused to turn over project Shadow, so he became a liability. A VERY big liability.

 

plus, he colluded with a monster named Black Doom to make Shadow. If you combine that with the refusal to turn him over, you could make a pretty good case for treason from the outside looking in. 

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I'm going to stop the eggman talk. Clearly we feel different that's fine.However this eggman talk has gotten to GUN talk, and that's another thing I wish to talk about. Because is an intesting entity and non entity in the comics. Is there anything you would like to see with GUN specifically? Anything you don't like about them? Anything you would watch to change? Focus on? I'll let you all go first. I would ask about the worlds unite thing, but everyone hates worlds unite so I think that all might moot. I think that might be brushed under a rug eternally. 

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Honestly, that last part is soo out of place and out of nowhere when you connect it to SA2's story that it makes everything incoherent.

Funny thing about that is it could actually work if you change things up a bit.

What's wrong with it? It tracks well enough

GUN sponsors Gerald, thinking they will get a living super weapon out of the deal as a "fringe benefit". Gerald is allowed to pull his mad scientist routine. When GUN comes looking to collect, Gerald refuses (his work to cure Maria remains unfinished), GUN storms the base, Maria dies in the crossfire, Gerald vow's revenge/goes insane, cue SA2.

I don't see much disjointed about that.

Edited by Sega DogTagz

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What's wrong with it? It tracks well enough

GUN sponsors Gerald, thinking they will get a living super weapon out of the deal as a "fringe benefit". Gerald is allowed to pull his mad scientist routine. When GUN comes looking to collect, Gerald refuses (his work to cure Maria remains unfinished), GUN storms the base, Maria dies in the crossfire, Gerald vow's revenge/goes insane, cue SA2.

I don't see much disjointed about that.

I was referring to the Black Doom thing...

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

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I was referring to the Black Doom thing...

It's not really that much of a story conflict, Gerald signs up to make an immortal living weapon for GUN while trying to save his granddaughter, his first attempts fails so he joins up with a demonic alien while secretly planning to backstab said alien once his project is a succes. The plan fails though when GUN finds out about the alien and decided to take him and his project out before the Earth is doomed.

I'm more confused by the bizarre notion that a power house like Game Shadow needed a sick 12 year old girl to save his behind from a single soldier armed with a pea shooter. It gets worse when you look at Comic Shadow who is literally a living demi god who still needed to be bailed out by a sick 12 year old girl as well. 

Really, it's like Sonicteam just didn't care about his background story when they kept powering him up with each new game.

 

Edited by Idon'tcare
stupid spelling errors.

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Uh, Shadow was trying to save Maria, not the other way around. The entire project that led to him being an immortal jackass badass was about curing the disease she had, and when she dropped him down to Earth it was because she trapped him in the capsule, he didn't know it was coming and he didn't want her to do that in the first place.

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Sonic and Sonic Universe (the delayed ones) are due out next week.

Geez laweez. I'd say, "Well, it's about time," but that they're due out by around New Year's is just rather ridiculous. Just what's going on from Archie's end that's causing these odd delays?

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So...while we're waiting for these issues, I have a thought about the twelfth Egg Boss that was kept hidden in the previous solicits.

What if it was Snively?

I mean, it's does come off as being far fetched to the point of being unlikely, so I'm just making random guesses - given how Snively was behaving during the Shadow Fall arc and how he was lying during his interrogation with Madonna, how none of Eggman's current schemes we're aware off have anything to do with what Snively is planning, and how Eggman is still in the dark of Eclipse the Darkling, it doesn't seem like it. But then I realize that picture of Sonic that he ripped - kinda obvious for those of us who've known the character for a long time, but still odd in itself that he'd do that to an picture someone who is an ally of GUN. And he has yet to encounter him again after all this time. And given that Commander Tower doesn't trust him, and that there's a bit of a gap between when Snively said he hightailed it to GUN as soon as he could after his dealings with Eggman, who's to say?

Just a thought. If not him, I suggest it might be another old character, Beauregard Rabbot, but how likely is that right now?

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

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