Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Big Panda]

Re: 12th Egg Boss: I'm honestly hoping it turns out to be an old continuity character. Maybe even one we wouldn't expect to be on Eggman's side.

[Idon'tcare]

I swear, the amount incoherence of Sonic Team's writing is bonkers to think of.

It was to be expected when they decided that none of the games are connected in anyway and that they would provide zero help for the writing team while stating that any story content in Sonic games are a very low priority. With  an attitude like that stuff is bound to wind up fubared.

I'll guess that it is SEGA America who handles the comic deals, but they need to get permission from SEGA Japan/SonicTeam for the characters and Sonicteam  most likely don't care about characters they don't work with directly.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I swear, the amount incoherence of Sonic Team's writing is bonkers to think of.

Its just mere incompetence.

[Zaysho]

So I made a quick check on Diamond's website, and it appears the previously delayed Sonic books aren't going to be out this week either.

Mega Man #55 is due out this week in stores, however, so I'm assuming we're going back to a regular schedule soon and SU#82 will likely release the following week and Sonic #279 the week after that.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Zaysho

[Ziggyfin]

Re: 12th Egg Boss: I'm honestly hoping it turns out to be an old continuity character. Maybe even one we wouldn't expect to be on Eggman's side.

Um, it was already revealed to be:

[Jhreamer]

It's over. I'm caught up. I missed some parts where storylines branched off into separate comic lines (damn marketing), but I got most of it. 

EDIT: I have since read about all of the legal disputes the surrounded these changes to the comic. I now have specific heads I want to knock (just one, I guess), but I feel at least some closure from this knowledge. Anyway, here are my thoughts from directly after finishing #279; before I knew about the legal bullcrap.

I was feeling very disappointed and empty regarding the Post-Second Genesis Wave world. It virtually killed off (thus far) SO MANY characters I loved from the old world, such as Leeta+Lyco, Jules+Bernadette, Julie-Su (...ALL THE ECHIDNAS except Tikal...do we just ASSUME that they're still "extinct" after Thrash's actions?), Mina Mongoose (HELLO?), and Geoffrey St. John (TALK ABOUT A CLIFFHANGER THAT WE'RE STILL HANGING ON).

But the issues after the...God forbid I say its name..."Worlds Unite" arc *shudder* have seemed to re-charge the emotional investment the old world provided. These new characters are very interesting, and FINALLY we have reason to care about them. Coral and her friends, Cassia and Clove, Rotor's father, the "new Freedom Fighters". Good additions. But it just makes me wonder even more why such staple and IMPORTANT characters from pre-reboot just popped out of existence. For God's sake, Geoffrey St. John has been in the comic since what, 1996!?

Also...I understand this might be an unpopular view, but...I miss the romance. Sure, a lot of the time, it was handled poorly. But I freaking FELT it. Most of the tension coming out of the Mecha Sally period was the fact that they had just begun their relationship again, and were tragically torn apart again. Then post-reboot happens, Sally is revived, both have their memories restored, and...not EVEN A MENTION? I hear rumors that Sega won't allow them to be together, but even then, a "Hey...in a devastating crisis like this, we can't be together and risk jeopardizing our efforts" would have at least loosely tied that knot. But NOTHING. Come on, guys...the first 230 issues of the comic built romantic tension between two of the top 3 main characters in the comic, and you just snuff it out. Lame. And sure, Bunnie and Antoine are reunited, but it doesn't feel endearing at all. There was a tiny mini-story at the end of an issue where they save a newlywed couple, but the writing was flimsy and hokey and only served to detach us from their love. Love is one of the most powerful storytelling elements in the goshdurned industry. At least the notion of sibling love lives on through Clove and Cassia. Also -- Knuckles and Julie-Su? I worry that she doesn't exist in this new world, because Knuckles has not. Batted. An eye. I could go on and on about this FOREVER, so...GAAH.

Regardless of my qualms...this comic has me hopelessly snagged. Hook, line, sinker, Froggy.

 Now what do I do for...any of my life that isn't the comic release days?

Edited December 29, 2015 by JohnTheDreamer
Now I know why...

[Forte-Metallix]

It's over. I'm caught up. I missed some parts where storylines branched off into separate comic lines (damn marketing), but I got most of it. 

Hidden Content

 Now what do I do for...any of my life that isn't the comic release days?

You can "thank" Penders for so many characters getting cut. He threatened to sue Archie again if they didn't pay him for using his creations, so they got rid of all of them just so he'd leave them alone. And all non-Sega-, SatAM-, AoStH-, or Flynn-created characters got axed to avoid any more legal hassles.

Also, just to clarify, everyone has, by this point, completely lost their pre-reboot memories, even the ones who briefly got them back via Nicole. So Sonic and Sally no longer remember ever being a couple. (Plus, Sega won't allow Sonic to be in a relationship anymore) As for the cut characters, not only do they not exist in this new world, history has been changed so that they never existed in the first place.

[Jhreamer]

You can "thank" Penders for so many characters getting cut. He threatened to sue Archie again if they didn't pay him for using his creations, so they got rid of all of them just so he'd leave them alone. And all non-Sega-, SatAM-, AoStH-, or Flynn-created characters got axed to avoid any more legal hassles.

...Really. Really? Really!?

That's going to make this very difficult for me. I suppose it's my fault for reading this so fast -- falling in love with the characters and watching them effectively DIE immediately, with not even an "aw, shucks". 

Time to go ride my stationary bike for an hour while screaming the entire fucking time.

Also, I edited my comment with a big tirade before you replied, if you're interested in me ranting about romances.

[goku262002]

John, heres the entire story of why pre-reboot characters are gone.

The bastard took away Shard through some loophole with that damn power gem, I still burn with an intense hate for that man because of that.

[Jhreamer]

John, heres the entire story of why pre-reboot characters are gone.

The bastard took away Shard through some loophole with that damn power gem, I still burn with an intense hate for that man because of that.

 ...Thank you, Goku. I'm up to speed. You've actually just rescued a project I was planning regarding this series.

All the stuff I said in my previous post must have been heard thousands of times before.

For now, here's a list of some of my favorite stories from the comic, as requested earlier by Forte-Metallix on my status feed.

 

The death of Sally's grandmother (?).

Metal Sonic vs. Metal Knuckles (the first truly serious battle of the series).

#47-#50.

Lupe and the Wolf Pack -- Weathering the Storm.

Jules and Bernie's memories.

Nate Morgan's story of his life.

The issue when Mecha-Robotnik transmits his origin story and comments on the events of #1-#50.

Sally immersing herself in the golden pool and refusing to complete the process.

"Ultimate Power" (sure, why not?).

"Heart Held Hostage" Parts 1 and 2 (LOVED THIS ARC).

"Home".

ALL of "25 Years Later" (this is the only goddamn closure I'll get with those pre-reboot relationships...)

[MY LEAST FAVORITE: The Chosen One Part 2 (#150). The comic had taken a serious turn for quite some time, and all of a sudden we return to the cheap, slapstick, empty hokeyness of issues #1-#10. Ensuring that we can't take Tails seriously, even though he's supposed to be able to harness the most power out of any character in the entire series. HAHAHAHAHAHA...Titan Tails. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU]

"The Darkest Storm" and "The Ties that Bind".

Basically all of #167-#247 (#175 WAS FREAKING INSANE. And yes, I liked House of Cards. I know, I know. Also, Antoine's "death" and the unification of the Wolf Pack and Felidae were beloved favorites of mine.

Worlds Collide (basically can't NOT include this...Sonic and Mega Man are my two favorite franchises).

The post-reboot Freedom Fighters' mission to save Station Square during the world's initial shattering

"Waves of Change".

The Race to Repair the Planet.

Yeah.

 

[goku262002]

Take solace that we will have closure in the form of this:
http://bumbleking.com/?page_id=512

The Lost Hedgehog Tales, a complete telling of the events that would have happened from Flynn's first time on the book to #300 from Ian Flynn himself. gives great insight into what goes on during this comic's development from month to month and how the legal issues sullied what great ideas he had.

BTW, wheres chapter 2 guys? didn't Flynn say he release it this month?

[blade57331]

Well, I kind of too miss old world. Characters and plot are now much more simplified, maybe even a little too much. And now we have more lighthearted stories, in constrast to a deep plot. And mandates from SEGA really limited Ian.(Not saying that all these mandates are bad).

But now some characters are more in-character at least. For example, you noticed that Rouge acts like herself when Julie-Su now is out of the picture? Coincidence!? I think not!

or Sonic is less of a jackass now, thought I didn't mind him being dick from time to time in pre-reboot. It was making him more inteseting. Now Sonic seems to be almost saint.:P

and about romance? I'm fine with it long as it's done right and as long as story isn't driven by it.

[Jhreamer]

Take solace that we will have closure in the form of this:
http://bumbleking.com/?page_id=512

The Lost Hedgehog Tales, a complete telling of the events that would have happened from Flynn's first time on the book to #300 from Ian Flynn himself. gives great insight into what goes on during this comic's development from month to month and how the legal issues sullied what great ideas he had.

BTW, wheres chapter 2 guys? didn't Flynn say he release it this month?

 AAND thanks for linking that as well! I actually saw it a couple of weeks ago, when I was around #90, and it spoiled...

Antoine's sacrifice. (Although, when I got to that point myself, it was done so fucking well that I still was MASSIVELY affected by it.)

So then I stopped reading. But now I can check that out again.

"or Sonic is less of a jackass now, thought I didn't mind him being dick from time to time in pre-reboot. It was making him more inteseting. Now Sonic seems to be almost saint.:P"

I KNOW, RIGHT? He's SO much more flat. Even if he pissed people off around the time Flynn came in...he was supposed to. He's not perfect; no one is. But now, he's kind of like TFS Vegeta but with absolutely no bite (and hardly any bark). So, like a watered-down TFS Vegeta.

And conflicts just don't seem...dire anymore. 100 issues ago, it felt like anyone could die at any moment, and EVERY SINGLE ACTION OR EVENT caused a giant emotional response and/or a clear counteraction. Now, nothing really feels potent...the world literally being shattered apart with no sizable ongoing consequence is a perfect symbol.

Edited December 29, 2015 by JohnTheDreamer
Quote function is giving me problems

[goku262002]

Sonic is still a smartass, but not to a point where hes a jerk it fits more in line with his game counterpart now.

[Wittymations]

In fairness, the new world is still taking baby steps to let you know what's happening. Doesn't help it was interrupted by a second crossover. I feel things may pick up after a while.

 

The old continuity had 20 years of development to make deeper plots. We're still finding out new things and seeing what's what.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, 2 years isn't anywhere near enough time to regain the amount of world building the old continuity had. We're just now getting into Eggman's arc to see his new Generals...er, Egg Bosses in action, some of whom we still don't know their names, whereas we at least knew who many of them were in the old verse.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Even as a big fan of the new continuity, I really sometimes miss the sense of depth, history, and impact of events that the old world had, but there's simply no way to replace that without...well, time.

For the record, though, Ken Penders did not create power gems. He merely introduced them to the comic. They came from the Western version of the Knuckles Chaotix story, even though they didn't appear in the game itself. I think the reason Shard is gone is more likely because his entire existence is based on the old continuity story in StH #87 that was obviously written by someone other than Flynn. I would theorize that the Archie staff are using the same logic as Penders when he claims Evil Sonic as his own: the particular version of Metal Sonic in #87 is considered as belonging to the writer of that story, so Shard is seen as belonging to him too. I mean, yeah, Metal Sonic is a Sega character, but that particular spine design, the power gem in the center, the arm cannon, the backstory of how he was destroyed - those things pretty clearly come from that one particular story.

I guess you could theoretically get rid of everything about Shard that wasn't derived directly from Sega material, but maybe they either figured it wouldn't be worth it at that point, or they're simply being very cautious like they were with Scourge.

Also, it would be pretty complicated to keep him in considering that Sega doesn't want multiple Metal Sonics. Of course, Captain Metal not only exists but is in the new continuity, confusingly enough, so go figure, right? I guess maybe they could've made Shard one of the Mecha Sonics from the games (Sonic 2 or Sonic & Knuckles), but at that point he'd be so different it wouldn't count for much.

Basically, I think the combination of being extremely cautious and the great complications that would've required him to be changed in massive ways is what did Shard in. Or maybe someone made a mistake and thought Ken Penders actually did create power gems or something, for all I know.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Monkey Destruction Switch
minor correction

[Moppsy]

 Now what do I do for...any of my life that isn't the comic release days?

You wait for OP (Archie) to deliver.

 

In all seriousness though, I do miss a bit of the romance.  You do get some of it from Amy's perspective now and then but Sonic's love affair with Sally is all but sunk as far as Sega is concerned.  There's two reasons for this.  Sega wants their mainline characters to stay static so they are as close to their in-game counterparts as possible.  Meaning no major changes in their relationships (because Sonic is supposed to be a free spirit and wont let a romantic relationship slow him down) and how they are portrayed; this includes whether Sonic succeeds or fails in a plot line.  The only time Sega will allow Sonic to lose is if it's short term.  You never do get that feeling a dread that a threat of a loss might give because you know that Sega wants the status quo intact. 

Why Sega wants the status quo intact is reason number two and it can be traced back to our good friend Penders.  Before the lawsuit, Sega was pretty off hands with the comic meaning you got a lot of that romance and drama that, while not necessarily well received half the time ("The Slap"), it still hooked a number of readers such as you and me (somewhat).  In fact, Sega didn't know much of what was going on in the comics unless it was major stuff like game adaptations and whatnot.  Pender's lawsuit gave Sega a reason to step into the development of the comics.  They also wanted a more status quo approach because they felt Archie Sonic was so different compared to game Sonic that they didn't like it.  After that, they tightened their reigns to prevent another Penders from happening and now have a more direct involvement.  Though they are more receptive to some of Flynn's ideas.  But not all of them.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Taokaka

[D.H]

Eh, I don't really miss anything from the pre-reboot universe (the romance, & Sonic's personality, just to name a few), and I think the new universe is a major step up in quality. Don't get me wrong, they had some good stuff in the pre-252! universe, but overall, I think the comic is much better these days.

And like Witty said, it's gonna take some time for the new universe to have the same depth & history that the old universe had.

I mean, the old comic had 20 years to build everything up, the new universe has only been around for a couple of years. It's gonna have it's own depth, history & everything soon, we just gotta give it some time.

Edited December 30, 2015 by D.H

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I don't miss the romance, not because I can't deal with it's presence, but because no matter who was writing it, it wasn't done well. If they actually did something like (insert adventure series with good romance here because I've got no good answer) I wouldn't be opposed, but I don't see that happening.

As for Sonic's personality...ehhh I dunno, he doesn't feel that different. I'd prefer if he got real fuckin' pissed a little more often, but that's a small thing.

 

And yeah, it'll be a long time before we have a fully redeveloped world. That said I still wish we'd get standalone books retelling the events of the Post-SGW universe, following the games and various other adventures involving the other groups of fighters and such. Seriously, continuing the archives and select books is just running into a dead end because they build on comics from a universe that got blown up.

(also a lot of them fucking suuuuuuuuck)

Edited December 30, 2015 by Shaddy Joestar Dreemurr

[Mr. Armstrong]

Eh, I don't really miss anything from the pre-reboot universe (the romance, & Sonic's personality, just to name a few), and I think the new universe is a major step up in quality. Don't get me wrong, they had some good stuff in the pre-252! universe, but overall, I think the comic is much better these days.

And like Witty said, it's gonna take some time for the new universe to have the same depth & history that the old universe had.

I mean, the old comic had 20 years to build everything up, the new universe has only been around for a couple of years. It's gonna have it's own depth, history & everything soon, we just gotta give it some time.

 

With all the restrictions the comic have now I doubt that happens, I have nothing against the reboot in fact served to get rid of the trash that had the old universe, the problem that I have with the new universe is the characters are so perfect that they are boring.

Sorry for my poor english.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Mr. Armstrong

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

How in the world are they perfect?

[Jhreamer]

I just read Spark of Life from Universe (#71-74), and it might be my favorite story so far. It has just about everything an ideal story should have, in my opinion. I might be biased because Nicole, Sally, AND Tails are in my top 5 of favorite characters (that are still around). And Flynn's Big is just a riot.

[FriendBot]

I do have a strong liking to Nicole and Phage is both really cool and really creepy.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I actually find it harder to genuinely pick out a character in the new continuity I actively dislike, and I don't mean in the "Love to Hate" kind either. Like, in the games, characters like Big the Cat would be the first thing to come to mind, but I can't say that in the comics.

Only character that comes to mind that I dislike is Eclipse the Darkling, and that's less for his character and more for his association to the whole Black Arms alien thing I don't like, because even then he's actually rather well written in a way. The most I can say is for other characters that don't catch my eye is that I don't feel too strongly over them, but I don't dislike them either.