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Who cares where the Battle KuKu fall in line?

So long as each of the Egg Bosses maintains their own secret agenda's and that overwhelming vendetta to stab the doctor in the back when the time is right, then it doesn't particularly matter where they pledge their alliance or what emblem brands their gear. They'll still able to be major players outside of the doctors line of sight on matters that concern them.

While it was nice to have a few formidable forces roaming the planet before, falling under the EggArmy banner doesn't particularly hinder the birds, or anyone else from still doing the things that made them so great before. When Jet and his crew show their face again, you can bet those birds will re-up that bloodlust. You can still bet they will hold onto their resentment of Tails. None of that needs to change.

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The Egg Army is great and all, but it still think it would be nice to see more villains that are truly "their own". I'd rather have some story arcs focus mostly on Eggman himself, others focus on members of the Egg Army, and others focus on other, independent villains - yanno, for variety 'n' such. Just having the Egg Army be the villains all the time isn't ideal.

Also, this may sound strange, but looking at that preview, I've realized Razor's design looks a little too much like Knuckles'. His muzzle is close in shape to Knuckles', his eyes are close in shape to Knuckles', and he even has a similar "hair" construction with those head fins fins hanging down being someone similar to Knux's spine dreads. It doesn't help that Knuckles is sometimes shown with pointed teeth too.

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6 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Also, this may sound strange, but looking at that preview, I've realized Razor's design looks a little too much like Knuckles'. His muzzle is close in shape to Knuckles', his eyes are close in shape to Knuckles', and he even has a similar "hair" construction with those head fins fins hanging down being someone similar to Knux's spine dreads. It doesn't help that Knuckles is sometimes shown with pointed teeth too.

I've been thinking this since he was first shown, to be honest. 

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I just want to comment that I find it incredibly ironic how people are annoyed with Eggman seemingly being the only threat in the Reboot world when, just years ago, the most common complaint was the exact opposite in both the comics and the games; that Eggman was being undermined by other villains :lol: 

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I think the problem is more of there not being a point of having an extensive rogues gallery if a good chunk of said rogues work for the one rogue, aka the Big Bad. It kinda makes for bad world-building and making the post-reboot feel less expansive and ambitious. People are just expressing some dissatisfaction with not having as many villains who have their own agendas/motives and don't end up working for Eggman. Nobody is even saying Eggman should be usurped or undermined by some new un-alligned villain either, so I don't think there's reason to dismiss/trivialize such issues with a "oh but we had the opposite problem a few years ago, now you guys want that back? WTF is wrong with you?" attitude.:mellow:

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35 minutes ago, DarkLight said:

I think the problem is more of there not being a point of having an extensive rogues gallery if a good chunk of said rogues work for the one rogue, aka the Big Bad. It kinda makes for bad world-building and making the post-reboot feel less expansive and ambitious. People are just expressing some dissatisfaction with not having as many villains who have their own agendas/motives and don't end up working for Eggman. Nobody is even saying Eggman should be usurped or undermined by some new un-alligned villain either, so I don't think there's reason to dismiss/trivialize such issues with a "oh but we had the opposite problem a few agao, now you guys want that back? WTF is wrong with you?" attitude.:mellow:

Where the fuck are you getting that implication? I wasn't dismissing or trivializing the issue and I'm certainly not saying "WTF is wrong with you guys." I perfectly understand why people are getting annoyed and I'm not going to question it, I was just pointing out the irony, nothing more and nothing less. If I was giving off a tone of dismissal then I'm truly sorry but that wasn't my intention and I'd appreciate it if you didn't make me out to be an insensitive asshole. 

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21 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Who cares where the Battle KuKu fall in line?

Well I do, for one. I really rather not have a world where pretty much every single villains somehow roots to Eggman. I quite enjoy villain variety, both for themselves and for how it affects the world. I very much like the feeling of "there's other stories happening irrelevant to ours"- which is harder when pretty much every time we see one of them, it's already connected to ours beforehand because the villain is working for Eggman.

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43 minutes ago, The KKM said:

Well I do, for one. I really rather not have a world where pretty much every single villains somehow roots to Eggman. I quite enjoy villain variety, both for themselves and for how it affects the world. I very much like the feeling of "there's other stories happening irrelevant to ours"- which is harder when pretty much every time we see one of them, it's already connected to ours beforehand because the villain is working for Eggman.

 

But my point is the affiliation to Eggman doesn't have to make any of that other stuff your looking for go away. Outside of the Dark Egg Legion for a period of time, pretty much every other faction of the Egg Army is more or less free to pursue their own stories and forward their own interests outside of Eggmans current shenanigans. The Raiju clan is a great example of this. Just because they were under the thumb of the Eggman Empire / IDdoesn't mean they were all of the sudden removed from the local power struggle. When Sonic and Tails went halfway across the world to help Khan way back when to ensure the fall of the iron dominion, they still had their grubby hands involved in the local problems on top of their affairs in the international grand scheme.

Would Babylon Rising have played out any different if the Battle Birds were a direct division off the Eggman Army and simply freelancing off of the whim of their leadership? Would we have lost any of the inter-personal conflict or the grudges or the end results? It might have changed a few sentences around and took a tiny bit more creative writing, but seriously there isn't anything that is really lost here. Even for variety sake, you're still facing off against the armada rather than some of the doctors robotic horde... whats the problem here?

You can still get that feeling of freshness as the Egg Bosses reach out to tackle their own interests from time to time. Does being a part of the Egg Army take anything away from that?

 

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It honestly does for me, man, especially as this version of the Egg Army is more uniform, both visually and in actions as far as we know, than before. We get an arc about, I dunno, Mordred going off and doing his own thing, it'll still read to me as "this villain defined by Eggman, except in this case he's acting against Eggman, but Eggman's still relevant here, as he uses Eggman's resources, methods, and soldiers".

 

Babylon Rising was great because it legitimately felt like a story happening despite it all. Eggman had nothing to do with it, even the heroes were accidentally dragged into it, it's mostly a conflict between side characters. If the Armada was directly an Egg Army chapter, to me, that feeling would've all been lost, and it would've just been "oh, here's another Eggman Army attacking and doing a plot about the Babylons or whatever". Characters have motivations, but groups and cultures can too, and I really don't like seeing all the groups and cultures pasted together into one.

 

All this of course without mentioning I don't like what it does to Eggman himself, but I've mentioned "Robo-Hitler" enough before that I don't feel like getting into that now :V

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19 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

The Egg Army is great and all, but it still think it would be nice to see more villains that are truly "their own". I'd rather have some story arcs focus mostly on Eggman himself, others focus on members of the Egg Army, and others focus on other, independent villains - yanno, for variety 'n' such. Just having the Egg Army be the villains all the time isn't ideal.

Also, this may sound strange, but looking at that preview, I've realized Razor's design looks a little too much like Knuckles'. His muzzle is close in shape to Knuckles', his eyes are close in shape to Knuckles', and he even has a similar "hair" construction with those head fins fins hanging down being someone similar to Knux's spine dreads. It doesn't help that Knuckles is sometimes shown with pointed teeth too.

Wally, and Jet/the rouges are still independent(if I had to guess Wally's schemes are too big for Eggman), and the Holligans are guns for hire

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37 minutes ago, The KKM said:

It honestly does for me, man, especially as this version of the Egg Army is more uniform, both visually and in actions as far as we know, than before. We get an arc about, I dunno, Mordred going off and doing his own thing, it'll still read to me as "this villain defined by Eggman, except in this case he's acting against Eggman, but Eggman's still relevant here, as he uses Eggman's resources, methods, and soldiers".

 

I feel like thats not fair to the characters they have invested in though. The EggBosses are developed enough to where this doesn't have to be the case. Regardless of who's tech they are using to accomplish their goals, if the Battle Lord decides to go after some buried Babylonian Treasure, I feel like I would attribute that to his own ambitions before I give Eggman even a little bit of credit. If Conquering Storm decides she wants to squash any and all competition in the Dragon Kingdom, sure she'd be doing it in the name of the empire, but I wouldn't falter for a second to think that this isn't what she'd be doing of her own accord anyway.

Outside of maybe Thunderbolt (and even that might be a stretch) none of the Egg Bosses are "defined" by Eggman. They all stand on their own two feet well enough for the most part.

Egg Army or not, if we get a Clove arc about looking for a cure for Cassia, or a Tundra arc about competing with his *cough*, I can't in all faith say that their affiliation with Eggman would taint that. If anything it would only serve to make it more dynamic/interesting. Eggman could be right in the middle of either of those potential arcs, or he could be so far out of the know that he is barely mentioned. Both options are on the table. Nothing has to be taken away. Its just another tool in the bag that is there if Ian wants to use it.

 

Quote

 

Babylon Rising was great because it legitimately felt like a story happening despite it all. Eggman had nothing to do with it, even the heroes were accidentally dragged into it, it's mostly a conflict between side characters. If the Armada was directly an Egg Army chapter, to me, that feeling would've all been lost, and it would've just been "oh, here's another Eggman Army attacking and doing a plot about the Babylons or whatever". Characters have motivations, but groups and cultures can too, and I really don't like seeing all the groups and cultures pasted together into one.


Egg Army's can still keep their culture's and identities though. I understand where you are coming from on that viewpoint. It was nice to have such a varied set of peoples scattered across the planet. We can only hope that with time, and a little more world building, we can get back to that.

(it seems like they are off to a good start on that IMO)

 

I will say, there are a few examples of some fringe skirmishes that sucked in the FF in a similar fashion. I remember the battle for the Oil Ocean refinery was a good example of that. The local chapter of the Egg Army, had their own particular problems with their unjust treatment by the hands of the sandblasters. Local conflict that Sonic and Bunnie got dragged into. I'm not sure we even saw Eggman's face in either of those two issues. Did anyone here immediately jump on the "oh its just another Eggman plot or something" bandwagon? Because at surface level, the doctor had little to do with it. I was much more focused on the Barron's plight to even think about much else.

Fast forward to the Chaotix arc, and it was Mighty tagging up with the Sandblasters to find his sister. An example of side characters, driving the plot and sucking the main story into the vacuum very much like Babylon Rising. I don't think the Barron's status as Egg Amry did anything to degrade that, nor did it lend any extra importance to Eggman. Did you see those guys as another Eggman army, or were they the ragtag collection of misfits with no other choice?  Egg Army or not, those stories are still on the table.

 

 

 

Quote

All this of course without mentioning I don't like what it does to Eggman himself, but I've mentioned "Robo-Hitler" enough before that I don't feel like getting into that now :V

 

Are we talking about the "Game" mantra? I always thought that was the thing that made Archie Eggman so great, but that's just me. No need to get into that now if it will just cause a headache for ya.

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So, Razor's origin story:

Razor was a pirate. All was well until he decided he didn't agree with their morals, leading him to turn against his crew. Of course he's outnumbered so he ends up injured and sinking to the bottom of the sea. Coral and Pearly find him, and take him back to the shrine to nurse him back to health. Then Striker the Mantis Shrimp and his troops shows up and accuses Razor of being the one behind a recent spree of robberies. Razor denies it and Coral backs him up. It's from this that Razor decides to stick around and watch Coral's back. The story ends with the implication that Razor has feelings for Coral, because of course he does.

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12 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Hidden Content

Well whadaya know? We got some info (name and powers/abilities/utilities) about her before Unleashed Shattered World ended!

Take that, Ian! XD (Meant as a joke!)

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5 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

What's with that last bit? Were you one of those people on bumbleking who really wanted him to be gay?

Hey Razor could still be Bi. We don't/Never will know.

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