Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[RobotnikHolmes]

On the subject of stories in the old universe working their way past the reboot, I figure Ian Flynn intends to make his stories with the Battlebird Armada and the Babylon Rogues fit in, with the Armada formerly getting in a scuffle with Tails and maybe Antoine and Bunnie, and the Rogues finding the Babylon Garden (though perhaps not under Mobotropolis) and fight with the Armada for it.

Probably a big reason why we get reprints of that Babylon Garden arc even after the entire reboot happened. Just thinking.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Being fair, some old canon stories seems to have happened in the new canon. If I remember correctly, I believe it was said that The Tails Adventure was still canon, as well as Treasure Team Tango.

[Big Panda]

4 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Being fair, some old canon stories seems to have happened in the new canon. If I remember correctly, I believe it was said that The Tails Adventure was still canon, as well as Treasure Team Tango.

Treasure Team Tango is a weird one. Sure it was referenced and footnoted in during PPP, but then again there was a lot of bizarre continuity fluxiation going in that arc (which was said to be due to the Jeweled Scepter protecting the Sol Zone from the full brunt of the SGW). Blaze having memories of TTT maybe just because of her memories being scrambled.

Of course if TTT did happen, that'd have to mean the original Sonic Rush didn't happen in the new continuity as closely to the actual game as we thought. Not to mention TTT itself would have loads of differences to the original (the Great Wastes).

And don't even get started on Captain Metal and how he works in all this...

[AngelSlayerN64]

Indeed. I personally believe that Captain Metal is such a lame villain. Did we seriously need another version of a robot pirate? Where's the originality here? The main villain for that arc should've been Captain Whisker. I know he isn't the most popular villain around, but I would be okay with that. Captain Whisker is basically a modern version of AOSTH Robotnik while Eggman Nega is a modern version of SATAM Robotnik. I really do like the parallels with these villains. It's pretty simple and straight to the point.

Regarding Pirate Plunder Panic for a moment, did anyone else feel that Blaze's portrayal in that arc was a bit disappointing? I really didn't like how she got captured twice in her own story. She's a badass, independent woman who's on par with Sonic and yet she gets overshadowed by Amy and Cream in the end just to make them look more badass? Honestly, this just makes her look inferior compared to them, which is not cool at all. I get the fact that Burning Blaze utterly humiliated Captain Metal at the end, but it felt like Amy and Cream were doing most of the work and stealing the spotlight from a very popular female character.

Why were Bean and Bark even there to begin with? They had no reason to show up, only for the sake of comedy. I would've liked it better if Blaze had her own original, new villain. One that doesn't look like a recolor of Eggman or a cliché pirate Metal Sonic. I would prefer a sorceress, opposed to a scientist or pirate, as Blaze's main antagonist. That would be awesome! Let Silver have Eggman Nega and let Blaze have Captain Whisker for now though. It makes much more sense that way.  

[DarkLight]

Assuming Eggman Nega is even available. Which is unlikely. 

[Your Vest Friend]

I think he meant in terms of background for Captain Metal i.e. he was supposed to be the Metal Sonic that was present in Hedgehog Havoc and Sonic X#40 before being blown to bits by a cannon, then somehow reappearing here rebuilt despite the fact that the reboot of the universe should have rendered him non-existent.

Personally, I don't see why he couldn't just have a rejigged background. Maybe it's was Nega's first attempt at building his own Metal Sonic before he perfected it with Metal Sonic 3.0 (go look up Rivals 2 if you don't know what I'm talking about), and he just cast this one aside before it was rebuilt into the piratey not-Metal Sonic we know him as. And then the weird fuzzy memory effect is how Blaze can remember anything about the original origin at all, and it won't be alluded to again. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Personally I liked Captain Metal. He has a nice design and his reveal was pretty surprising. Then again Metal is my #1, so I'm biased.

And while I like this arc, I will admit that Blaze was quite pushover. I get, she needs to be captured for a plot sake. But twice? Each in really weak fashion? Sure she gets the final move, but AFTER getting super form and at this point I could stop reading. Super form Vs No super form = Automatic Win (I'm looking at you Worlds Collide).

I think this story could be better if there was slightly fewer characters. Third issue is mostly filler.

[Big Panda]

My headcanon for Captain Metal is that, in the old multiverse, he *was* Metal Sonic 3.3 rebuilt, but then the Super Genesis Wave retconned him into something that was built from the ground up.

[AngelSlayerN64]

I definitely agree that Metal Sonic is a very imposing and badass villain like you say MSB, but let's face it; Metal Sonic and Silver Sonic are the only "Metal" series that are really necessary at this point. Yes, even Shard. Although, I wouldn't mind if he became a mink as a nod to Silver's early concept design. Seriously, why don't we have one of those yet?

However, if Shard could be something other than a mink, then these redesigns could work too:

 

Drawloverlala's artwork is so magnanimous!

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Just for safety's sake, I don't think Shard has a chance due to his connections to old continuity stuff created by other writers. It may be playing it overly safe, but I know Archie doesn't want to take any chances. But those redesigns are glorious, I love Drawloverlala! <3

[Forte-Metallix]

Yeah, Flynn confirmed that Shard's gone for good. We can "thank" Penders for that. 

It's a shame. He was my favorite old-reality character: not just because he's a heroic Metallix, but because he was funny and had some good character development. 

Ah, well. At least his last moments were spent making Metal Sonic finally look badass. ;n;7

[Zaysho]

Fond as I am of Shard, I don't blame Archie for not bringing him back. I kinda feel like he'd have to be changed a little too much to separate him from the things that made him who he was in the old continuity, and then he wouldn't feel the same. Then there's his namesake/power source and what to replace it with since that'd be out of reach. You can't jam a Master Emerald shard into the S3&K Mecha Sonic or something, because then that creates a problem with keeping him around or fixing Angel Island. I guess you could probably remove it and have him rebuilt at the end of a storyline that introduced him like that. I dunno, I just couldn't see Shard come back in any circumstance without missing something.

For what it's worth, Gemerl is a pretty effective replacement, at least if the bit of dialogue in "Worlds Unite" is anything to go by.

[Arranos]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only reason Shard isn't coming back is actually because of two reasons:

1. That crystal on his chest is property of Ken Penders...

2. and a (possible?) mandate saying that one "Metal Sonic" is allowed.

Personally, I would make him a Holo-Hedgehog, similar to Nicole.Power source would be rings (let's see you copyright that, Penders!) and he wouldn't technically be a "Metal Sonic". Maybe alter him so he doesn't look like a hedgehog and bam. (But it's not that easy, isn't it?)

Question: Can anyone claim to own an "Anti" Version of the franchise?

Another question: Can Penders claim copyrights over characters that were created for the comics that weren't made under contract?

[Zaysho]

12 minutes ago, Arranos said:

Question: Can anyone claim to own an "Anti" Version of the franchise?

Penders could, apparently, since he's claimed copyright over Evil Sonic and even Robo-Robotnik. This would apply to the rest of the Anti verse characters.

12 minutes ago, Arranos said:

Another question: Can Penders claim copyrights over characters that were created for the comics that weren't made under contract?

It doesn't really work that way. The reason Penders was able to make his claims was because they were his creations/contributions to begin with, and the lack of a contract made it easier for him to make those claims (had Archie been able to produce a contract that clearly spelled out that it was work-for-hire, things would have gone down much differently). When Archie's case was dismissed, he was seen as the legal owner of the things he made copyright claims on. The rights for other characters deferred back to their original creators (Bollers has the rights to Hope and Finitevus, for example) since they similarly did not have contracts for some reason (the exceptions being the DiC characters and Flynn's creations, because Flynn was always under contract). Now, Penders IS saying he's looking into buying the other creators' rights off of them, but who knows what's going to happen there?

[AngelSlayerN64]

Shard the Holo-Hedgehog? Rings as a power source? YES! That's so perfect! He could even have a super transformation like Overclocked Nicole! (although, I know none of that would be able to happen at all). If it wasn't for the mandates or copyright issues, how would you go about re-introducing Shard (as a Mobian) in the Post-Reboot?

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

1 hour ago, Arranos said:

1. That crystal on his chest is property of Ken Penders...

I've said this every single time this comment has been made, and I don't want to break my streak, so here goes: Power gems actually come from the Western Knuckles' Chaotix manual, and were merely introduced into the comics by Penders. This has been your daily pointless anal-retentive Sonic correction by Monkey Destruction Switch.

[Zaysho]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I've said this every single time this comment has been made, and I don't want to break my streak, so here goes: Power gems actually come from the Western Knuckles' Chaotix manual, and were merely introduced into the comics by Penders. This has been your daily pointless anal-retentive Sonic correction by Monkey Destruction Switch.

Huh. Did not know that...

But, if that's the case, then the Power Gems are a SEGA concept, right? Wouldn't that make them fair game? Or is it possible SEGA isn't allowing them to use them because it's from the obsolete Western continuity (and current Archie Sonic is rooted in the old Japanese stories with the addition of original elements from the book's old legacy)? I'd guess the latter, especially since Knuckles Chaotix is considered non-canon (though apparently elements like Isolated Island, the Chaotix badniks and the Sling Rings are usable...).

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Well, my impression is that the power gems would be fair game, and that Shard is off-limits for other reasons. Most likely because he's a very specific version of Metal Sonic from a very specific story. You could even argue that that particular variation on Metal Sonic is the property of the writer of the story he appeared in (in StH #86); he had several elements different from the original Metal Sonic, such as an arm cannon, different spike-style, gem on his tummy, etc. - elements which were retained in Shard. (And of course, his specific history too, even if it was inspired a bit by the OVA.) If Scourge is off-limits, it makes perfect logical sense that Shard would be too, really. If they completely changed him to the point of getting rid of anything that connected him to that old version of Metal Sonic, I guess technically he could be permissable...? But at that point, maybe it's not worth the effort.

It's possible that power gems might be off-limits due to being from the Western-only manual of a non-canon game, but I doubt that Sega cares that badly. I think the above explanation is a more likely reason.

[Arranos]

3 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Penders could, apparently, since he's claimed copyright over Evil Sonic and even Robo-Robotnik. This would apply to the rest of the Anti verse characters.

It doesn't really work that way. The reason Penders was able to make his claims was because they were his creations/contributions to begin with, and the lack of a contract made it easier for him to make those claims (had Archie been able to produce a contract that clearly spelled out that it was work-for-hire, things would have gone down much differently). When Archie's case was dismissed, he was seen as the legal owner of the things he made copyright claims on. The rights for other characters deferred back to their original creators (Bollers has the rights to Hope and Finitevus, for example) since they similarly did not have contracts for some reason (the exceptions being the DiC characters and Flynn's creations, because Flynn was always under contract). Now, Penders IS saying he's looking into buying the other creators' rights off of them, but who knows what's going to happen there?

Honestly, I feel like it's a general idea that's been used multiple times. Penders shouldn't have claims over that concept. Characters maybe, but not concept.

I have heard that Penders is trying to get the other characters created by people.

1 hour ago, SilverStarN64 said:

Shard the Holo-Hedgehog? Rings as a power source? YES! That's so perfect! He could even have a super transformation like Overclocked Nicole! (although, I know none of that would be able to happen at all). If it wasn't for the mandates or copyright issues, how would you go about re-introducing Shard (as a Mobian) in the Post-Reboot?

Honestly, IDK. Maybe Dr. Ellidy or Uncle Chuck created him.

1 hour ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I've said this every single time this comment has been made, and I don't want to break my streak, so here goes: Power gems actually come from the Western Knuckles' Chaotix manual, and were merely introduced into the comics by Penders. This has been your daily pointless anal-retentive Sonic correction by Monkey Destruction Switch.

Sorry, I didn't know. I usually skim over comments when trying to catch up. Thanks for the info!

------------------

Honestly, I don't know. With a lot of characters being booted out (a long time ago), I kinda have this delusion that some other characters created by Ian would make it in.

There are Ian-created characters that won't make it in or are undetermined. I just want to know if there is some hope for these characters...

With Shard & Scourge being disconfirmed and Thrash floating in limbo, what other characters have potential to come back?

[Jason Berry]

Some interesting tweets from Ken Penders.

 

Archie letting go of Dan Parent is huge. What the hell is going on there? Are they bleeding cash?

[Dejimon11]

Wow that explains why Parent had that kickstarter for his comic. Something is going on.

[Tylinos]

Fernando Ruiz already spoke last week about how he was told in January that he wouldn't have new work anytime soon. (With Archie's co-president being rather surprised by this news, no less.)

However, something strikes me as odd about this, as just five days ago Dan Parent retweeted an interview tweeted out by Archie on his upcoming work for them.  It's also worth noting that Fernando's post said Dan still works with Archie.

So, unless something changed in the last five days (which is entirely possible), Ken may have been misinformed.

 

EDIT: Dan Parent responded to Ken confirming that, yes, Ken was incorrect.  He still works for Archie.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Tylinos

[Your Vest Friend]

3 hours ago, Arranos said:

Honestly, I don't know. With a lot of characters being booted out (a long time ago), I kinda have this delusion that some other characters created by Ian would make it in.

There are Ian-created characters that won't make it in or are undetermined. I just want to know if there is some hope for these characters...

With Shard & Scourge being disconfirmed and Thrash floating in limbo, what other characters have potential to come back?

Uh, dunno if we've got any more to save after what's already been brought back;

-Mordred is already back, as are Bow and his group (although probably not Friar Buck), and Akhlut, and Conquering Storm managed to make it back as well (albeit while dropping the bride title).

-Diesel, Matilda and Beauregarde were both derived from throwaway lines from other writers, plus he's basically confirmed them gone.

-All his anti-characters are tied to an alternate universe that's not usable, same for any Zone Cops he created (ie. all but Zonic), and same for any future versions and children he made for Light or Dark Mobius.  

-Various other family mentioned in the Echidna history are also gone (eg Eli-Za, or some of the Fire Ants). 

-E-107 Theta is also gone...for some reason. I guess because it was so tied to Light Mobius? 

-Edmund from Silver's old future is gone, but you can that just from how Silver Age starts.

-Ixis Vale is gone as she's tied to the Ixis idea.

-The Krudzu Hybrid Hydra was an altered version of the original Krudzu which was from another writer.

-The Roboticised Masters are likely cross-over exclusive (because, you know, a mix of Mega Man ideas).

The closest we have to characters yet to be introduced that he brought in are Mina's back-up band, and that's because they're the ones from the Sonic 1 concepts

[MetalSkulkBane]

Yeah, Bow, Conquering Storm, Akluth and Hood are all we got (with Trash in Limbo, since he's useless without echidnas). Flynn won't bring a single character that is even a little connected with old works. So Shard is gone due to being sorta created by other guy, Sega new mandate for "there is only one Metal Sonic" (that's why Captain Metal will never say out loud his origins) and the fact that we Lost Secret FF, so what's the point.

Personally I will miss Elias the most. I know I'm going to piss the someone by saying this, but he was everything Sally was suppose to be (minus Sonic's girlfriend. But if you put him in nice dress, then who knows....) Sally is a perfect flower that sometimes gets scared that she's not a perfect flower until her friends give her a hug and assure her she is a perfect flower (Iron Dominium, Saving Station Square). Elias is smart and level headed but by no means perfect. He had real struggles with being a king (not stupid marriage problems) and ultimately he was more likable character.

Still, I kinda wish it was a "clean cut' and we got rid of all Preboot characters. Does anyone really needs Hood or Akluth? Ok, Conquering Storm is pretty popular, but ultimately she's background character.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

7 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Well, my impression is that the power gems would be fair game, and that Shard is off-limits for other reasons. Most likely because he's a very specific version of Metal Sonic from a very specific story. You could even argue that that particular variation on Metal Sonic is the property of the writer of the story he appeared in (in StH #86); he had several elements different from the original Metal Sonic, such as an arm cannon, different spike-style, gem on his tummy, etc. - elements which were retained in Shard. (And of course, his specific history too, even if it was inspired a bit by the OVA.) If Scourge is off-limits, it makes perfect logical sense that Shard would be too, really. If they completely changed him to the point of getting rid of anything that connected him to that old version of Metal Sonic, I guess technically he could be permissable...? But at that point, maybe it's not worth the effort.

I thought that Shard was the Metal or Mecha Sonic from #25, the Sonic CD adaptation. Seems like this would be approaching "Eggman is mine because I used Robo Robotnik to bring him into the comic" territory.