Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Big Panda]

37 minutes ago, SilverStarN64 said:

Where will Silver go after he dealt with Vile in that "MM: Battle Book" issue? That's an important plot point too. On the Mobius Wiki, it states that Silver does remembers the events of Worlds Unite like Sticks, Sonic, Eggman, Mega Man, and Wily.

As a ME mod, I actually no idea why that's stated there. Silver didn't take part in the main bulk of the crossover so he doesn't really have anything to "remember".

The story where Silver battled Vile is the only WUB story that is still partially canon, since everything up to the last page takes place before the paradox occurs. Silver's memories of the retconned version wouldn't really count that as falling into the same spectrum as the others who literally have lingering memories of retconned events.

[Your Vest Friend]

*Flashback to a week ago*

*Was looking for a screenshot of Valdez to use in her 30 day challenge entry*

*Came across an old Valdez story which Espio's back story influence was in direct contradiction to previous comic events*

Well, dang it, but at least it's just the once where I have to call Ian out on the retcon.

*Skip to today*

*Was looking for a different screenshot of something to use in her 30 day challenge entry*

*Comes across an old Downunda FF story which Vector's back story influence was in direct contradiction to previous comic events*

I can't get a break. 

[AngelSlayerN64]

1 minute ago, Ernest-Panda said:

As a ME mod, I actually no idea why that's stated there. Silver didn't take part in the main bulk of the crossover so he doesn't really have anything to "remember".

The story where Silver battled Vile is the only WUB story that is still partially canon, since everything up to the last page takes place before the paradox occurs. Silver's memories of the retconned version wouldn't really count that as falling into the same spectrum as the others who literally have lingering memories of retconned events.

That might be true, but he had more importance than Team Dark at least. The way I see it, Silver was like the "behind-the-scenes" type of guy.

I could care less about the crossover itself, but rather where he goes after that particular story. That's what I meant to say, sorry about the confusion.

[Shadowlax]

17 hours ago, DarkLight said:

The Deadly 6 were pretty much put in WU because the were the new big villains Sega wanted to market in some way. And even then they weren't nearly as well utilized there, I feel. Say what you will of how they're written in LW, I still vastly prefer that over them being bland henchmen for an uninteresting villain like Sigma.

And I don't think Nega is even worth a passing thought on being in the comic. He certainly was conceptualized on less than one. ;p 

To respond to multiple things. 

The portals are interesting as is many of the plot holes left open. Like eclipse, that dude is still kind of running around, that can get real bad real fast.

And yes he did have more to do in that thing than team dark, Which sucked, though WU sucks for a lot of reasons. 

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That thing has me completely unhyped for whatever this shattered thing is for this summer

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[therealfalconpawnch77]

2 hours ago, Detective Reptiles said:

*Flashback to a week ago*

*Was looking for a screenshot of Valdez to use in her 30 day challenge entry*

*Came across an old Valdez story which Espio's back story influence was in direct contradiction to previous comic events*

Well, dang it, but at least it's just the once where I have to call Ian out on the retcon.

*Skip to today*

*Was looking for a different screenshot of something to use in her 30 day challenge entry*

*Comes across an old Downunda FF story which Vector's back story influence was in direct contradiction to previous comic events*

I can't get a break. 

Which Downunda story? I'm trying to read them all so I can get an idea for something

[Your Vest Friend]

11 minutes ago, therealfalconpawnch77 said:

Which Downunda story? I'm trying to read them all so I can get an idea for something

Myth-Taken Identity. It's mostly about the fight against the Bunyip, but part one clarifies that they all met each other for the first time by chance during a rescue of some people. 

[AngelSlayerN64]

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

The portals are interesting as is many of the plot holes left open. Like eclipse, that dude is still kind of running around, that can get real bad real fast.

Thank you for sharing your opinion with me. I really do appreciate it a lot.

I don't understand why everyone thinks Eggman Nega is a "complicated" or "confusing" character, when I literally stated my potential fan idea that could logically work quite well. He's from the future with Silver, plain and simple. Just have him be a reoccurring antagonist for Silver while he's exploring more zones with Blaze, Gold, and Von Schlemmer.

[DarkLight]

Or maybe Sega just doesn't consider him a viable character or antagonist anymore.

[AngelSlayerN64]

Just now, DarkLight said:

Or maybe Sega just doesn't consider him a viable character or antagonist anymore.

To be fair, Mario and Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games was his first time being a playable character. So...in a way, they still do technically acknowledge him.

[Sega DogTagz]

Recognizing his existence and promoting his status as a legitimate villain are two completely different things. Its been quite a while since Sega has bothered to introduce Nega into the story lines of any games of consequence. Sure, they keep us aware that he is a thing, but until they bring him back from the dead in a console or handheld he might as well be dust in the wind.

 

18 minutes ago, SilverStarN64 said:

I don't understand why everyone thinks Eggman Nega is a "complicated" or "confusing" character, when I literally stated my potential fan idea that could logically work quite well. He's from the future with Silver, plain and simple. Just have him be a reoccurring antagonist for Silver while he's exploring more zones with Blaze, Gold, and Von Schlemmer.

Its not that easy. Nega would have to pull double duty and serve as the villain for Blaze as well, and it wouldn’t make sense for him to be the lifelong sworn enemy to two characters from two different timestreams. Nega’s already established as having a hand in Blaze’s life via Capt Whiskers and the lampshaded events of Sonic Rush Adventure. If you throw him back to being a Silver centric villain from the future, you are doing little more than opening the same can of worms Sega did. We’ll be back to square one with Blaze and Nega plotholes.

 

No thank you.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Your Vest Friend]

Well, Iizuka's last word on him was that Nega was from the future, and then later games included both origins, so they did that to themselves already. 

[Sega DogTagz]

2 minutes ago, Detective Reptiles said:

Well, Iizuka's last word on him was that Nega was from the future, and then later games included both origins, so they did that to themselves already. 

 

My point exactly. Sega already dug a pretty deep hole for themselves and archie went off the deep end right behind them.

Nega's situation is pretty complicated at the moment. There is no simple fix to this problem beyond Sega building a backstory for this guy and sticking to it. Any other solution only creates more problems.

[AngelSlayerN64]

6 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Recognizing his existence and promoting his status as a legitimate villain are two completely different things. Its been quite a while since Sega has bothered to introduce Nega into the story lines of any games of consequence. Sure, they keep us aware that he is a thing, but until they bring him back from the dead in a console or handheld he might as well be dust in the wind.

 

 

Its not that easy. Nega would have to pull double duty and serve as the villain for Blaze as well, and it wouldn’t make sense for him to be the lifelong sworn enemy to two characters from two different timestreams. Nega’s already established as having a hand in Blaze’s life via Capt Whiskers and the lampshaded events of Sonic Rush Adventure. If you throw him back to being a Silver centric villain from the future, you are doing little more than opening the same can of worms Sega did. We’ll be back to square one with Blaze and Nega plotholes.

 

 

 

No thank you.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It does make sense because Eggman Nega is a time traveler and dimension hopper. There's nothing complicated about that.

[DarkLight]

You don't seem to really be grasping what we're saying in that it really is complicated. Can't we just accept there's no real or feasible reason to include him when the reboot has already given us a decent rogues gallery? 

[AngelSlayerN64]

10 minutes ago, DarkLight said:

You don't seem to really be grasping what we're saying in that it really is complicated. Can't we just accept there's no real or feasible reason to include him when the reboot has already given us a decent rogues gallery? 

Fair enough, then. It really doesn't matter to me anyway. I can always look forward to what the Naugus Twins will do in Eggman's Dozen.

[Sega DogTagz]

13 minutes ago, SilverStarN64 said:

It does make sense because Eggman Nega is a time traveler and dimension hopper. There's nothing complicated about that.

There is everything complicated about that.

He can't be a mortal enemy to both Blaze and Silver. Characters from two different timelines and two different dimensions. He can't pull a 9 to 5 shift harassing Blaze and then jump ship to go pull an all-nighter in his latest scheme to best Silver. He cannot be a lifelong enemy to two characters from two worlds. The dude needs to sleep sometime. 

He cannot be given unrestricted, or even marginal access to the timestream. I shouldn't even have to explain why that is a cluster-F waiting to happen.

If you bring a dual villain role into cannon status, then you have to bring the baggage that comes with it. (Hi Sonic 06, Hi Sonic Rush, Hi Sonic Rivals, Hi Generations contradictions). Rivals and Rush are both already cannon in the archie-verse. If you want to link that thread with Nega, then Archie will be smack dab where Sega is right now with Nega. Up the creek without a paddle. As you can see from everyone ragging on Sega's usage of Nega, that is not a good place to be.

It would further pollute the timestream with advanced technology. Nega has a camera that turns people and things into trading cards. What else do you think they have in the future. Complications ho!

If the Sonic comic has had 1 constant over its long run, its that prolonged abuse of the time/space stream causes the universe to collapse on itself. Its happened at least 5 times now. So sure, lets bring on more time travel and dimension shifting.

 

 

Thats just a small handful of the can of worms you open up by using Nega. His very existence has ripple effects on the rest of the verse.

 

 

[AngelSlayerN64]

21 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

There is everything complicated about that.

He can't be a mortal enemy to both Blaze and Silver. Characters from two different timelines and two different dimensions. He can't pull a 9 to 5 shift harassing Blaze and then jump ship to go pull an all-nighter in his latest scheme to best Silver. He cannot be a lifelong enemy to two characters from two worlds. The dude needs to sleep sometime. 

He cannot be given unrestricted, or even marginal access to the timestream. I shouldn't even have to explain why that is a cluster-F waiting to happen.

If you bring a dual villain role into cannon status, then you have to bring the baggage that comes with it. (Hi Sonic 06, Hi Sonic Rush, Hi Sonic Rivals, Hi Generations contradictions). Rivals and Rush are both already cannon in the archie-verse. If you want to link that thread with Nega, then Archie will be smack dab where Sega is right now with Nega. Up the creek without a paddle. As you can see from everyone ragging on Sega's usage of Nega, that is not a good place to be.

It would further pollute the timestream with advanced technology. Nega has a camera that turns people and things into trading cards. What else do you think they have in the future. Complications ho!

If the Sonic comic has had 1 constant over its long run, its that prolonged abuse of the time/space stream causes the universe to collapse on itself. Its happened at least 5 times now. So sure, lets bring on more time travel and dimension shifting.

 

 

Thats just a small handful of the can of worms you open up by using Nega. His very existence has ripple effects on the rest of the verse.

 

 

Would you at least be okay with Eggman Nega being Silver's main enemy and Captain Whisker as Blaze's main enemy? You could even replace the Onyx City Council for Dr. Nega alone. Captain Metal is dead, so Blaze can have Whisker all to herself.

[Sega DogTagz]

Well, no matter what Blaze already has Whiskers to herself, so that is a mute point.

Its not my personal preferences on the issue that make for a problem here, its how the character is situated in the canon. Nega has already been shown as the "mastermind" behind Whiskers in the comics, so its not like they can backtrack from it so easily. If you try to divorce Nega from Blaze's world now, you run into a plothole via the events of Sonic Rush Adventure, which backtracks plotholes through Rivals and 06. All of which have already happened in the rebooted Archie-verse.

If your asking my opinion, I think having Nega serve as Silver's villain is thematically fine. I just don't see how you can do that without nuking the canon from orbit. If you replace the council with Nega, then you'd have to explain away his involvement in Blaze's world... which brings in time travel... which brings in contradicting events... which brings in plotholes.

Leaving Blaze with just Whiskers as a primary villain is a sin though. Much as I like the bloke, she deserves a much more powerful big bad to serve as her main opposition.

 

 

[AngelSlayerN64]

38 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Well, no matter what Blaze already has Whiskers to herself, so that is a mute point.

Its not my personal preferences on the issue that make for a problem here, its how the character is situated in the canon. Nega has already been shown as the "mastermind" behind Whiskers in the comics, so its not like they can backtrack from it so easily. If you try to divorce Nega from Blaze's world now, you run into a plothole via the events of Sonic Rush Adventure, which backtracks plotholes through Rivals and 06. All of which have already happened in the rebooted Archie-verse.

If your asking my opinion, I think having Nega serve as Silver's villain is thematically fine. I just don't see how you can do that without nuking the canon from orbit. If you replace the council with Nega, then you'd have to explain away his involvement in Blaze's world... which brings in time travel... which brings in contradicting events... which brings in plotholes.

Leaving Blaze with just Whiskers as a primary villain is a sin though. Much as I like the bloke, she deserves a much more powerful big bad to serve as her main opposition.

 

 

Okay, how do you feel about this?

Origin and History:
Eggman Nega seems to have two completely contradictory origin stories! Yet according to the word of the developers, the Nega in Rush and the Nega in Rivals are indeed the same character. So let me posit a theory after I sum up the two apparently-contradictory origins…

In the Sonic Rush series, Eggman Nega claims to originally hail from Blaze’s world. While Nega is never directly referred to Eggman’s dimensional counterpart or any similar term, this is the most logical assumption that players can make. All we really know aside from this is that he and Blaze have fought prior to the events of Sonic Rush.

In the Sonic Rivals series, Eggman Nega hails from 200 years in the future, and is a descendant of Dr. Eggman. He claims that Eggman’s failure to conquer the world was too shameful for him to bear, and that he returned to Eggman’s time in order to change history. We also know that he and Silver are enemies.

Alright. There’s one way this could possibly be resolved. This is only a theory, so take it with a grain of salt, but perhaps Nega is Eggman’s descendant as he claims, and he travelled to Blaze’s world in order to don the identity of Eggman’s dimensional counterpart to earn Eggman’s trust, assisting him in taking over the world. This makes enough sense because Nega wishes Eggman would have succeed in conquest, potentially changing his own future in so doing. By acting as an alternate version of himself, Nega could help Eggman do what he failed to otherwise do in the normal time flow. After both Rush attempts failed, Nega captured Eggman and disguised himself as his ancestor, hoping to conquer the world with his camera in Sonic Rivals while disguised as Eggman (Although by Rivals 2, he seems to have given up on conquest and openly attempts to summon a beast to destroy the world altogether). In any event, this is one way Nega’s conflicting origin stories can be brought together to make some semblance of sense.

As far as Blaze having a more worthy opponent than Whisker, perhaps Captain Memo from AOSTH could work...maybe? Although, I can't think of anyone else that wouldn't be a pirate. I'd rather not see Captain Metal return again. I do want some originality whenever Blaze gets a new antagonist...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If you're going to use Nega, he should pick one place - either Silver's time period or Blaze's dimension - and stay there.

And honestly, they had everything set and done with having him in Blaze's dimension. Why they decided to have him hail from Silver's time period in the first place is so mind-boggling that it's hard to understand how anyone could muck that up so easily.

[AngelSlayerN64]

38 minutes ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

And honestly, they had everything set and done with having him in Blaze's dimension.

I support Dr. Nega being from the future mostly because Takashi Iizuka said so. Fan reaction towards this revelation was very positive. I already listed my other reason above.

[brohman428]

Maybe it's just that being a fan of both the Flash and Doctor Who and time/dimension hopping shenanigans don't bother me, but I don't see why Nega can't antagonize both Silver and Blaze. He's from the same time period as Silver and decided, for whatever reason, to travel to Blaze's dimension. 200 years is a long time for technology to evolve, and considering the stuff Eggman and Tails build on their downtime, it's not that out of place for Nega to have the means of messing around with the space-time continuum. As for Nega telling Eggman that he's from the Sol Dimension, the explanation: Nega lied. It's not like it's out of character and it wouldn't really be a retcon considering that nothing about Nega states that he has to originate from the Sol Dimension. Sol and Mobius don't really do the whole "dimensional counterparts" thing outside of their respective emeralds anyway. And Nega meeting Blaze before just says that he's been to the Sol Dimension before, doesn't mean he has to be from there. I just think there is a lot of potential for stories and threats that Nega can pose to only characters like Silver and Blaze since their the only one's dealing with time and dimensional problems regularly. 

But whatever, I've said my piece on this matter.

[AngelSlayerN64]

35 minutes ago, brohman428 said:

Maybe it's just that being a fan of both the Flash and Doctor Who and time/dimension hopping shenanigans don't bother me, but I don't see why Nega can't antagonize both Silver and Blaze. He's from the same time period as Silver and decided, for whatever reason, to travel to Blaze's dimension. 200 years is a long time for technology to evolve, and considering the stuff Eggman and Tails build on their downtime, it's not that out of place for Nega to have the means of messing around with the space-time continuum. As for Nega telling Eggman that he's from the Sol Dimension, the explanation: Nega lied. It's not like it's out of character and it wouldn't really be a retcon considering that nothing about Nega states that he has to originate from the Sol Dimension. Sol and Mobius don't really do the whole "dimensional counterparts" thing outside of their respective emeralds anyway. And Nega meeting Blaze before just says that he's been to the Sol Dimension before, doesn't mean he has to be from there. I just think there is a lot of potential for stories and threats that Nega can pose to only characters like Silver and Blaze since their the only one's dealing with time and dimensional problems regularly. 

But whatever, I've said my piece on this matter.

Yes! Thank you. I'm so glad you could understand where I'm coming from. You pretty much summed up all of my thoughts for me.

I'm getting sick and tired of people saying Eggman Nega can't work because they don't know what to do with him. Me and brohman428 actually gave a reasonable explanation as to why he could work well in the comics.

[Shadowlax]

6 hours ago, DarkLight said:

You don't seem to really be grasping what we're saying in that it really is complicated. Can't we just accept there's no real or feasible reason to include him when the reboot has already given us a decent rogues gallery? 

Eh? I think the rogue gallery situation been kind of weak to be honest.

[AngelSlayerN64]

2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Eh? I think the rogue gallery situation been kind of weak to be honest.

Indeed. I don't see what's wrong with adding Eggman Nega in the comics. He's the perfect antagonist for both Silver and Blaze.