Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[DarkLight]

Survey says: No Shard.

[Stardust]

13 minutes ago, DarkLight said:

Survey says: No Shard.

Hm. But wasn't there a statement given by Ian Flynn where he said he had ideas for the character? 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

19 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Hm. But wasn't there a statement given by Ian Flynn where he said he had ideas for the character? 

He later confirmed Penders fucked Shard over because, and get this. His fucking power shard.

On another note, yes the colouring has a massive effect on the comic. It's a lot better now compared to that era between #225 and #252 where most Universe and Sonic issues looked like a bunch of crayons were melted down to create the colouring, with everything just being neon-bright. A lot of people dislike the colouring before Issue 200, but I liked it a lot more because it felt like darker colours and shading was being used.

[Stardust]

38 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

He later confirmed Penders fucked Shard over because, and get this. His fucking power shard.

What a fucking bummer. -.-

[Kuzu]

3 hours ago, RobotnikHolmes said:

Am I the only one who thinks people should focus on the good points of the comic too instead of, I dunno, Sonic's fur being too bright?

Or, ya know, you could just not participate if you aren't interested in the topic at hand instead of trying to dictate what people should be doing :V

That, and its pretty disingenuous to generalize criticism of the artistic quality of a comic book as just "arguing about Sonic's fur being too bright". 

[Dee Dude]

Seriously? Am I the only one who likes Steve Downer's colors? I get that it looks fairly pale and all but to me it looks great because of how light and smooth the colors are, it could be a more bit darker and vibrant but still.

[shdowhunt60]

I seriously don't get the vitriol either. I mean, fucks sake, the art has CERTAINLY been worse in the comics before.

Having said that, am I noticing a little Yardley in Pepper's work? Especially with a lot of Tails' facial expressions.

[MetalSkulkBane]

8 hours ago, RobotnikHolmes said:

Am I the only one who thinks people should focus on the good points of the comic too instead of, I dunno, Sonic's fur being too bright?

They comic isn't canceled like Megaman

16 hours ago, Mecha X said:

Will agree with me on account of the fact that Sally is more worthy to be the protagonist of the comic rather than Sonic? And that her name was on the cover. Better dead Sonic and Sally all instead resolves, and comic book was called "Sally Acorn: The Princess of Freedom".

It is worth noting that more interesting to Sal - is that given the fact that part of her mother died with the old world, she is at heart sincerely wishes to Eggman cruel death. But she did not allow two things - her status and political not touching for Egg.

Yes, Sonic is restricted by mandates, Sally has more freedom. Comic needs Sonic to sell. Sally is popular, but like Shadow or Scourge, has antyfans too. Besides making cast even LESS Sega would be highly questionable choice.

Let's move one, we all know this will never happen.

Unleashed adaptation is funny considering that it shares the time with start of this universe. It feels like it's going forever, but at the same time we spend much more time showing new characters and places rather then on Chip or Werehog. It's unfortunate, but alternative would be to take even more time and I think most of us would like to move to the next arc by now.

As for Cassata, I don't hate him. Look at StH 260, there his coloring was enjoyable "exotic", even if he's not Herms or Dillon (god, it would be so awesome to have Dillon again).

[Arranos]

I personally like the artwork and colors. Vibrancy is one of the reasons why I'm a fan.

However, there is something that's been bothering me now that I've read 280:

Why are they killing off the parents?

Both of Antoine's parents, Sally's mom, and Rotor's mom have either died or assumed to have. No mention of Bunnie's parents or "Mrs. Ellidy".

Heck, we don't even know the first names of King Acorn or Dr. Ellidy. The only parent we do know is Tundra (and King Puff and Queen Angelica, but that's beside the point). I know SegaSonic characters can't have familial relationships and I'm glad they're giving us characters, but...

...I have nothing. I just want explanations on why this is happening. Why are the main Freedom Fighters lacking families in the new universe?

And I know someone will say "Because Penders", so I'll just put that answer here, get it out of the way, and say that I need an explanation please.

[Celestia]

I'm personally writing it off as this being a case of dead parents being a really common trope in fiction. On the other hand, how many of the SATam characters' parents were dead in the pre-SGW continuity? Is it any more common now than it was then?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

None that I recall. I don't remember any mention of them for that matter.

[Tenko]

In SatAM at least,  I do recall some comments being made about Tails mother, but that wouldn't be allowed now due to the main Sega cast being of unknown parentage. Dulcy had a mother in SatAM didn't she? Beyond that, no, none of them originally had parents mentioned or shown, besides Sally and her father King Acorn of course. 

Always wondered why Ant had his last name changed between SatAM and the Archie comics tho. Seemed an odd and random change to make and then stick with, especially when Rotor had his name changed from the earlier used Boomer to the one used in the show etc.

[MetalSkulkBane]

I see two reasons for that

1 Because we're going back to the roots. In Satam no one had parents, so no one will have here, except of King Acorn who existed in Satam and Tundra, cause villain parents don't count.

2 Because they parent's still exists, in Preboot. Why create Antoine new father, when Armand is his father for all of us. Why give Sally a mother, when everyone will tell you her name was Alicia. Rotor's father on the other hand was no-entity, so Tundra works. Same reason why King has no name: it's "Max", but were not allowed to call him that.

And I know that there is Julian Snively and Walter Naugus, but they are a little more important. Besides, no one called him Colin anyway and Order of Ixis are gone (Personally I still refuse to call him Walter).

I know that Bunnie parents weren't in Preboot, but maybe Lost Hedgehog Tales will tell us more (plus, we already know they were traitors from Encyclopedia).

2 minutes ago, Tenko said:

Always wondered why Ant had his last name changed between SatAM and the Archie comics tho. Seemed an odd and random change to make and then stick with, especially when Rotor had his name changed from the earlier used Boomer to the one used in the show etc.

Same reason why Sally was blond and Bunnie wasn't part of the team: errors in communications between creators.

[Mauro Fonseca]

sorry to rewind discussion a bit but the problem with the colouring isn't even, personally, the bright colours.

 

christ. feeling a bit feverish so forgive me if this is ramblier than usual

I never knew much about colour theory, academically at least, which is why I often used colour schemes bizarre enough to get people to as me if I'm daltonic; so I can't quite put into words what's feeling me off here. I'd guess, though, that it's lack of contrast. Not only are the colour brights, but they're ALL brights. I recently re-read herms' first issues colouring, circa 200, and he also had a very bright colour scheme, to the point where things seemed almost neon; but he had high contrast, to make it work, and generally gave the backgrounds muter colours than the characters.

 

I'm in a half-broken laptop so I can't test it, but would someone be so kind as to desaturate one of the recent pages of the comic? I'd wager it's all going to look very similar in its shades of gray. it feels it's done by someone who just goes "this is green, so it needs green here. blop green." with no thought to lighting, etc.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

The off panel for this is, uhhh...

 

 

 

oh no they didn't

 

Also pretty sure Heese is dropping sneak peeks of the megadrive comic!

 

"YO EGG FACE!" 

Also LOOK AT TAILS

[King Scoopa Koopa]

On Shard: I'm happy with Gemerl as a surrogate for him. I know it's not the same, but given that even if Shard had been able to stick around, they'd probably need to change his backstory anyway. The attitude seems much the same, and that just leaves the name and form factor. And didn't Ian say SEGA says there's only one Metal Sonic now, but they got around that with the whole "Mecha" thing from back in the day? So a rebooted Shard might have suffered there anyway.

In my mind, I like to think that maybe Shard's spirit lives on in Gemerl not unlike how Gamma's sort of lived on in Omega. Robots, y'know?

Heck, just going with the name "Gemerl" instead of the alternate "G-merl" almost feels like a throwback of sorts to Shard in its own way.

[Drawloverlala]

Just now, Arranos said:

I personally like the artwork and colors. Vibrancy is one of the reasons why I'm a fan.

However, there is something that's been bothering me now that I've read 280:

Why are they killing off the parents?

Both of Antoine's parents, Sally's mom, and Rotor's mom have either died or assumed to have. No mention of Bunnie's parents or "Mrs. Ellidy".

Heck, we don't even know the first names of King Acorn or Dr. Ellidy. The only parent we do know is Tundra (and King Puff and Queen Angelica, but that's beside the point). I know SegaSonic characters can't have familial relationships and I'm glad they're giving us characters, but...

...I have nothing. I just want explanations on why this is happening. Why are the main Freedom Fighters lacking families in the new universe?

And I know someone will say "Because Penders", so I'll just put that answer here, get it out of the way, and say that I need an explanation please.

i think that's used to give the characters more independency... just like in Sonic's case.. though the difference with Sonic and these characters its that with him its not allowed to mention them and i think its not necesary to say what happend to them XD..

besides the most of Sega Sonic's character doesn't have parents, are not mentioned and or its not something relevant to their stories to tell

... so maybe they are just trying to make these character be more independient.. just like the game characters..

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

3 hours ago, Tenko said:

Always wondered why Ant had his last name changed between SatAM and the Archie comics tho. Seemed an odd and random change to make and then stick with, especially when Rotor had his name changed from the earlier used Boomer to the one used in the show etc.

IIRC, the "SatAM Bible" called him Antoine D'Coolette, so it's possible that it's actually SatAM that made the arbitrary and needless change to Depardieu rather than the other way around. Also, Antoine's last name is a much more minor detail in SatAM than Rotor's first name, considering the former is used once in the entire show, so it doesn't surprise me at all they wouldn't bother to change it. And Archie did things like keeping Rotor's color purple to this very day while the show didn't keep that for more than one episode, so it's not exactly inconsistent.

[Dantemustdie00]

3 hours ago, Mettatataton said:

 

Also pretty sure Heese is dropping sneak peeks of the megadrive comic!

 

"YO EGG FACE!" 

Also LOOK AT TAILS

Knuckles may not Chuckle, but Tails certainly does. Adorable.

Yeah, what I like most about CD/OVA Sonic over his modern and other versions is the anime Spiky hair, how it naturally goes up similar to Vegeta's hair rather than droop down at the end. Plus it just looks more sharp.

I wonder if tyson is actually being both the penciler and the inker for this.

[SBR2]

17 hours ago, RobotnikHolmes said:

Am I the only one who thinks people should focus on the good points of the comic too instead of, I dunno, Sonic's fur being too bright?

Agreed. I can admit when there's negative points like the Chip page but it seriously seems like people are just trying to find something to hate in the comics most of the time.

[Big Panda]

On the subject of dead parents, I don't mind the trope being used, but I admit I really wish they'd use other causes of death besides illness or old age. For once can't we just have a perfectly healthy parent who died in a tragic accident or something?

[Mauro Fonseca]

 

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

Agreed. I can admit when there's negative points like the Chip page but it seriously seems like people are just trying to find something to hate in the comics most of the time.

Taking a more positive view of the comic won't make the colouring better of a sudden, luv.

 

EDIT: Something to add to this snark, I quickly grayscaled a page by the current mainline colourist, and a page on the latest Universe. Surprisingly, while the Universe one has more contrast, it's not by much more - instead, what seems to make things pop out is contrasting colours, instead of values.

For an example, compare this Sonic to this Metal Sonic:

Looking at it just like this, Metal Sonic should look much more drab, shouldn't he- he's basically a slab of mostly the same gray, with just some slight highlights! But when seen in colours...

Metal Sonic pops out much more, as his shading into purple makes the blues jump out more, whereas Sonic's just following a drab "go from darker to lighter in terms of values".

Overall, I now realise that the main issue here is basically one that you often find in pixel art- contrast and hue shifting. Hue shifts normally pop out more than shading just by contrasting "dark to white" in a boring ramp. You know, shading red with purple instead of just brown.

Ideally though, you'd want elements of both approaches here- Herms could use some more contrast, Cassata can use a LOT more interesting colour shifts!

 

I think the biggest thing to solve Cassata's shading would be to remove the "extra layer of white, 50% opacity" approach to the highlights, honestly.

[SBR2]

48 minutes ago, The KKM said:

 

Taking a more positive view of the comic won't make the colouring better of a sudden, luv.

 

EDIT: Something to add to this snark, I quickly grayscaled a page by the current mainline colourist, and a page on the latest Universe. Surprisingly, while the Universe one has more contrast, it's not by much more - instead, what seems to make things pop out is contrasting colours, instead of values.

For an example, compare this Sonic to this Metal Sonic:

Looking at it just like this, Metal Sonic should look much more drab, shouldn't he- he's basically a slab of mostly the same gray, with just some slight highlights! But when seen in colours...

Metal Sonic pops out much more, as his shading into purple makes the blues jump out more, whereas Sonic's just following a drab "go from darker to lighter in terms of values".

Overall, I now realise that the main issue here is basically one that you often find in pixel art- contrast and hue shifting. Hue shifts normally pop out more than shading just by contrasting "dark to white" in a boring ramp. You know, shading red with purple instead of just brown.

Ideally though, you'd want elements of both approaches here- Herms could use some more contrast, Cassata can use a LOT more interesting colour shifts!

 

I think the biggest thing to solve Cassata's shading would be to remove the "extra layer of white, 50% opacity" approach to the highlights, honestly.

I'm still not seeing it. You can keep telling me it sucks but I'm still not seeing it.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Can't help you there, then. I'm sure if Yukio Mishima went talking to me about what makes a good haiku good and a bad haiku bad and his personal preferences about them and all in a half-contained language as he's not quite sure how to explain things and is also not speaking his native language, I'd also just shrug my shoulders.

I've more than half given up on liking these comics for their writing; and beyond that, a lot of my interaction with media is through the visual, through good art, animation, etc.; so I hold that side to a stricter, and more personal, standard. It's not like I'm impossible to please, I love Skelly and Bates and Hesse (so long as he inks himself), and Herms colouring tends to be nice and the colouring in other times has been pretty good (Silver Arc, etc.). The main comic right now though is just having a confluence of art factors (passable-to-meh artists [in their aesthetic sense, IMO, obviously ABT is a bit beyond "passable" in pure craft], meh-to-bad inkers, meh-to-bad colourists) that just makes even the visual side a bit of a boring trainwreck.

[SBR2]

19 minutes ago, The KKM said:

Can't help you there, then. I'm sure if Yukio Mishima went talking to me about what makes a good haiku good and a bad haiku bad and his personal preferences about them and all in a half-contained language as he's not quite sure how to explain things and is also not speaking his native language, I'd also just shrug my shoulders.

I've more than half given up on liking these comics for their writing; and beyond that, a lot of my interaction with media is through the visual, through good art, animation, etc.; so I hold that side to a stricter, and more personal, standard. It's not like I'm impossible to please, I love Skelly and Bates and Hesse (so long as he inks himself), and Herms colouring tends to be nice and the colouring in other times has been pretty good (Silver Arc, etc.). The main comic right now though is just having a confluence of art factors (passable-to-meh artists [in their aesthetic sense, IMO, obviously ABT is a bit beyond "passable" in pure craft], meh-to-bad inkers, meh-to-bad colourists) that just makes even the visual side a bit of a boring trainwreck.

That's your propagative then. Personally outside of maybe Austin's Inks, which I think are getting better, I honestly think the books art is at it's best. And when it comes to writing I genuinely love what's been done with the post-reboot world. Yeah it'd have been nice to see Chip have more interaction with the Freedom Fighters instead of just saying he's their best friend but I think over all this storyline has introduced a lot of cool concepts that I personally can't wait to see developed even further.

Maybe I'm naïve but dang it I'm just enjoying the comics as they are because they're fun. I keep saying it feels like people take the franchise too seriously and what I mean by that is it seems like people can't just stop and have a little fun everything needs to be 100% like the games or they need to stop making jokes that some people don't find funny or everything sucks no matter what they do.

It just seems like this fanbase is so desperate for disappointment they'll make every possible leap to find it.