Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Big Panda]

2 hours ago, Detective Reptiles said:

The panel thing was in Sonic Digest #16 as well, but I didn't say anything as it looked like an edit of #256's original (the rectangles for the character are exactly the same, some of the characters don't seem to be reacting or even looking so I thought they were bits of art from previous issues made to fit).

It also confirmed the Shattered and PitS link.

Where does it say Shattered and PitS are linked?

[Heckboy]

That shadow in the last panel looks like the Battle Fortress to me

[Kazhnuz]

Even though I'm very happy to see Cream being in the action a bit, I think that Sally's relationship to Cream is kinda normal, when we remember that Sally's is shown as a anxious adolescent who tend to blame herself for anything wrong is happening (the best moment to show that is in Damage Control, where she said that she had to make amend from the event of the PreSGW), and Vanilla said to Cream "stay close to the Freedom Fighter" (that make them in a situation of responsibility). One could say that it's maybe not the best person to command a Team, but it's still better than Sonic (who isn't a leader), and I'm not sure that other FF would try to be in position of leadership. 

Maybe she always fear that something bad happens to her, and that she would have to announce to her mother that her daugther got injured, or even worse, killed under her responsability. I don't know for you, but this very possibility would gueninely make me terrified. Most of the other people don't have parent, haven't parent anymore or have a jerk father. Of course it don't mean that it's the good thing to do, but it's the most logical course of action with the character. 

Sally tend to have some trait that are unhealthy (for instance, how she can act way more recklessly when only her life is in line), but I would say it's normal when we consider her age (16 y-o, I think ?), and her history with the invasion of Mobotropolis. Of course, it don't mean that it doesn't have to change, as it would be an interesting evolution of the two characters... That's why seeing her in battle is cool, because it show that it's not an "absolute no" (but more maybe some kind of uneasyness ?). 

And I would love some original team-up arc with Cream in a Sonic Universe, one day.

 

To talk about the Sth 281 : I like how Tails said that when Bunnie was found by Rosie, he got like a big sister. So I assume we can speculated that Rose looked after Tails when he was a kid (well, even more a kid) ? I know SEGA will never allow us to explore the past of SEGASonic characters, but it's cool to see that Flynn can try to play with the mandate a bit. Also, I hope that whole she-don't-know-her-origins-deal will have an answer one day.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Regarding Cream

1 I believe Flynn shoot himself in the foot making team so big, it's natural that someone has to do less. Nicole had only one story when she does something important: the one with pretty cave (unless you count Sonic Universe). Chip didn't do anything important never, just tiny "help here, do that". And Cream...send help in "Ambushed". Yeah, she is the the lowest priority in the team (1 Sonic 2 Tails, Amy, Sally 3 Core FF 4 Cream and Big, but Flynn gives him extra love). Shadow had even less time during 200-247, not mentioning Blaze during... always. Of course I see the difference here: Shadow didn't appear in every issue saying "wow, cool action. It sure would be nice joining in." But balancing all characters is hard, and making good story bigger priority.

2 I agree with Kazh, it's "in character" for Sally to protect Cream like that. She is the responsible one. Also, like I said in other topic, it's obvious that Cream can fight, but her feats are vague. In all games she had some help (yes, I do count Advance 2. Sonic & the gang are in this game, it's possible they took down all biggest threats). Still, that's just excuse. She could as well be part of the action with Sally just observing if she's fine and that would be "in character" too. It's obvious that Flynn just doesn't want to use Cream. Maybe because "see above". I'm guessing that Flynn has plans for her, but she joined in 256. Two years is a long time to sit on her bum and make coffee.

[Heckboy]

I feel like shoving everyone into one big team does kind of limit things. Maybe it'd be better if Cream just showed up when she's relevant instead of just having her be there constantly to go "when can I do something?"

[Kaotic Kanine]

I normally don't think having a big main cast is a problem (I go by the saying "the more the merrier") but, now that I think about it, it is very hard to pull off in a comic book with limited pages and is on a monthly release. If the scenes in a story (or the story itself) could become bigger and we didn't have to wait nearly as long for their release, we could potentially get to see more of our favored characters and they can get to do stuff. But alas the comics right now are too small to give all or even most of them ample spotlight and if the character(s) in question are on the "low priority list", we have to wait for half a year or maybe even two years for them to actually do something (and keep in mind, I've been waiting for Cream to have significant action in the comics before the Reboot was even announced, so imagine my level of impatience right now). Things probably wouldn't be so bad if we had plenty of spin-offs to give focus for the other characters but we only have one (Sonic Universe). The huge delay in releasing the comics since before the start of this year didn't help matters at all. 

Okay, I guess I'll accept that it makes sense for Sally to be like this with Cream. In fact, maybe I wouldn't be so upset with this development if it didn't go on for so freaking long, didn't occur during two huge events (Shattered World Crisis and World's Unite, the former being a highly important one that defines the status quo for the comic in a manner of speaking), and if Cream was being compensated as this development goes on. Like, this whole shindig should've ended immediately after 267 (or better yet should've occurred after SWC ran its course) and Cream should've gotten very nice development/treatment as this went on. Instead, this continued until 281 (but even then, how do I know Cream won't be booted back to Sky Patrol immediately after the preview scene ends and then I have to further wait until 283 or "Panic in the Sky") and nothing good has happened to Cream during this nor is she getting anything good out of this.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The only problem with a large cast is planning. It generally doesn't matter how big or small the cast is - generally, because a large cast does need a certain amount of time to effectively plot, as World Unite has shown when you don't have enough - but it does matter if you can't prioritize them within what your putting them into.

Compare Flynn's handling of Cream - or any Sega game character, Big the cat especially. Since arguably Heroes, she was poorly utilized, and her role not as noticable. You could almost write her out of the plots and you could barely see any effects. Here? Even when they have little screentime, there presence has some weight or energy to it. Cream in the Champion arc getting pissed off at Honey's cheap shots towards Tails has a lot of energy despite having such small presence in it. I actually notice Cream is around when she's show.

[MetalSkulkBane]

17 minutes ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

 Even when they have little screentime, there presence has some weight or energy to it. Cream in the Champion arc getting pissed off at Honey's cheap shots towards Tails has a lot of energy despite having such small presence in it. I actually notice Cream is around when she's show.

That was Skelly, with her art everything is energetic and memorable. Other examples.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

10 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

That was Skelly, with her art everything is energetic and memorable. Other examples.

Oh really? She wrote that arc? Wasn't paying attention to that. Lol

Well, my other examples are from Pre-SGW, so I'm not sure how much that would matter.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Without the script, we actually don't know if it was Ian or Skelly. Judging by his old scripts, Ian does tend to not leave much interpretation room to the artists, so he likely specified how Cream'd be acting, but who knows, the scriptbits stuff was from ten years ago, maybe he's Mark Millaring it now. Or doing the reverse and Alan Mooring it.

[Dr. Detective]

To me, a large cast is never an issue. In fact, I always see an opportunity to do more with the more you have. My problem only comes in when you have so many of them within the same team, holding the same positions. It's another reason why I appreciate having characters like Team Dark and Team Chaotix around. Their motivations allow them to be a lot more flexible with what they do and where they go.

Anyway, I'm actually really enjoying this Eggman's Dozen arc so far. I will say, it's admirable just how much of a monster Eggman is in this comic. I probably wouldn't manage his character in this exact manner but preferences aside, he's making it work. 

[Mauro Fonseca]

Saying just "a large cast" by itself is such a vague notion I don't think it can genuinely be or not be an issue, because you need to take more into account. Disney Comics have a huge cast, but they've also got a format that allows for various stories focusing only on a few of the huge cast at once, for an example. I think the problem that's trying to be conveyed here is that by making so many characters part of the FF, they're not just a large cast but there's also an expectation of importance and relevancy that doesn't allow as easily to let some slide back for the purposes of focusing on others.

[E-122-Psi]

20 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

Sally tend to have some trait that are unhealthy (for instance, how she can act way more recklessly when only her life is in line), but I would say it's normal when we consider her age (16 y-o, I think ?), and her history with the invasion of Mobotropolis. Of course, it don't mean that it doesn't have to change, as it would be an interesting evolution of the two characters... That's why seeing her in battle is cool, because it show that it's not an "absolute no" (but more maybe some kind of uneasyness ?). 

I think the key problem is that little development comes from this. The only time any of woes are put in spotlight is when she has an angst fest and the others have a 'don't be so hard on yourself' speech. The whole idea of her acting recklessly I suppose could be made in character if they just lampshaded the whole hypocrisy of it and made her compare ideals, but it's never treated that way. Hell the nearest to such a case was when SHE called out NICOLE over being a hypocrite.

There's just this whole ongoing unwillingness to really dissect Sally's flaws, as if they don't want any of the cast questioning or tearing into her. She has to be so humble as to come to this realisation herself or nothing comes from it. That's why the Cream debate isn't getting anywhere, we don't see Sally starting to ponder over Cream's abilities or get into any debate or argument over whether she is right or wrong. It just is and then suddenly it isn't, because the in-between would mean stating Sally is WRONG about something without her saving face.

 

[Dr. Detective]

I've never been a fan of the whole Freedom Fighters thing in general really. I've always liked the idea of the stories just following the scrappy outings of Sonic and Tails as they take on Eggman in a more unorthodox manner, traveling the world, meeting people, and getting a helping hand when there's someone who can provide one. 

This whole, "Meanwhile in the hall of justice" Superfriends thing they're doing kind of just makes them all feel like they're clocking into work as agents or something. For as long as I've been reading them, I've never been able to fully get on board with it and I'm certain I never will. Oh well.

[E-122-Psi]

I will say I prefer interpretations that focus more on individual characters and goals rather than just being sent into missions as groups.

I think this is why the Sonic Heroes style teams got old after a while in the games too. It diminished characters mattering on their own, usually just being this main hero and their two sidekicks.

[Arranos]

I really don't know what to say here.

The way that I see it, I actually don't notice that Cream isn't doing anything.

...Wait...

Okay, I know that Cream isn't really shown to be doing anything & the others see her as a defenseless kid, but going off game logic (and assumptions), Cream was one of the twelve characters that took part against the battle of Metal Overlord. She was also part of the Advance and Rush series for a while, so the way that I see it, she had more personal experience in those events than the other Freedom Fighters. Of course, this could have changed in the comics, so this would be a mute point.

I have noticed that there has been some type of "Appearance Tier" that the comics implement in order to get more people to get comics. I feel like this is mainly for game characters, so this is the tier list I believe is shown:

Tier 1: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Dr. Eggman and Shadow.

Tier 2: Metal Sonic, Amy, Blaze, and Silver.

Tier 3: Rogue, Omega, Espio, Charmy, Vector, Cream, Big, Jet, Storm, Wave, and Marine.

Tier 4: Mighty, Ray, Nack, Bark, Bean, Honey, Gemerl and other obscure game characters.

Feel free to disagree with me and say what I did wrong.

[MetalSkulkBane]

On 5/10/2016 at 7:58 AM, Arranos said:

I have noticed that there has been some type of "Appearance Tier" that the comics implement in order to get more people to get comics. I feel like this is mainly for game characters, so this is the tier list I believe is shown:

Tier 1: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Dr. Eggman and Shadow.

Tier 2: Metal Sonic, Amy, Blaze, and Silver.

Tier 3: Rogue, Omega, Espio, Charmy, Vector, Cream, Big, Jet, Storm, Wave, and Marine.

Tier 4: Mighty, Ray, Nack, Bark, Bean, Honey, Gemerl and other obscure game characters.

Feel free to disagree with me and say what I did wrong.

Mostly nitpciks but:

1I feel like Chaotix as a team are Tier 2

2 Marine should be lower

3 I'm not sure if tier 4 even matters. Are Gemerl or Bean even hot enough to attract readers? At least comparing to non-games characters, like Breezie or Eclipse?

[Singapore Sling]

5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Are Gemerl or Bean even hot enough to attract readers?

Well, I'd fuck them.

[Dee Dude]

5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 Are Gemerl or Bean even hot enough to attract readers? At least comparing to non-games characters, like Breezie or Eclipse?

Well Bean definitely gets my attention, that's for sure. 

[Your Vest Friend]

The serious answer is no. They have about as much pull as any Archie original to the general audience. 

[Drawloverlala]

wow! Adam Bryce Thomas drew these! 

how fancy <3

 

[Your Vest Friend]

Looks quite off the style to me. Don't particularly fit.

[KoDaiko]

Oh, glad I wasn't the only one who felt that. It's really minor, probably because of the proportion (especially Bunnie), shape (the legs to be specific) and less-sketchiness. It's nice though.

[RobotnikHolmes]

5 hours ago, Drawloverlala said:

wow! Adam Bryce Thomas drew these! 

how fancy <3

 

Missed out this fluffball

[Heckboy]

Someone got 281, it seems, since I found this. I cropped it a bit since I wasn't sure if full pages are allowed. Anyway, here's Dulcy

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