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Man almost 10 years later and poor Ian still cannot escape House of Cards

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3 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Man almost 10 years later and poor Ian still cannot escape House of Cards

The thing about Comic books is that nobody ever really forgets. Ever. Its why Hank Pym is still kind of a controversial character today lol.

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4 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The thing about Comic books is that nobody ever really forgets. Ever. Its why Hank Pym is still kind of a controversial character today lol.

Well I mean there's a diffrence in getting in a two issue tussle with your bestie and being a unrepentant wife beater but YES you do have a point xD

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19 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Man almost 10 years later and poor Ian still cannot escape House of Cards

Ten years later, people are still talking about how bad '06 was.

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13 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The thing about Comic books is that nobody ever really forgets. Ever. Its why Hank Pym is still kind of a controversial character today lol.

Comics, video games, movies etc. Especially since this is Sonic that were dealing with you always remember the bad stuff. 

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To be fair, we remember Flynn's mistakes, but we're still his fans. Obviously we remember good he made.

There is just less to talk about good stuff. If it's good, it's good. If not you can ask why it's bad, how to fix it, was there anything good about it, defend it, etc. Smarter person would probably dissect SU 1 properly, but all I can say is "Omg, Marine is funny, all my fav characters are here, so cool, 5 stars"

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10 hours ago, Soniman said:

Man almost 10 years later and poor Ian still cannot escape House of Cards

Well it keeps away the whole "Ian is perfect and can't do any wrong" strawman detractors often give his us, so I say it evens out when his own fans never let Ian live it down yet we still support him despite noting his flawed moments.

And you know what's funny? I think Ian handled the (botched) attempt at a legit Sonic vs Tails moment much better than how it was done in Lost Worlds despite the Fiona thing. A kid still hurting from a broken heart is much more believable than him being immature out of the blue for his brother figure randomly not trusting him - hell, even adults suffer from heartbreaks.

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11 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Well it keeps away the whole "Ian is perfect and can't do any wrong" strawman detractors often give his us, so I say it evens out when his own fans never let Ian live it down yet we still support him despite noting his flawed moments.

And you know what's funny? I think Ian handled the (botched) attempt at a legit Sonic vs Tails moment much better than how it was done in Lost Worlds despite the Fiona thing. A kid still hurting from a broken heart is much more believable than him being immature out of the blue for his brother figure randomly not trusting him - hell, even adults suffer from heartbreaks.

Tails vs sonic was the only good thing that came out of that

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32 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Tails vs sonic was the only good thing that came out of that

Objection!

You're forgetting about my fav Preboot Archie exclusive character: Elias. He doesn't even wants to rule, but papa and duty forces him to fight for it. It's hard to not sympathies with him.

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5 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Objection!

You're forgetting about my fav Preboot Archie exclusive character: Elias. He doesn't even wants to rule, but papa and duty forces him to fight for it. It's hard to not sympathies with him.

True, I can't believe I decided not to mention him that much.

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15 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Objection!

You're forgetting about my fav Preboot Archie exclusive character: Elias. He doesn't even wants to rule, but papa and duty forces him to fight for it. It's hard to not sympathies with him.

You know what yea

I actually like him more than sally.

Can we trade penders him for sally.

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1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

You know what yea

I actually like him more than sally.

Can we trade penders him for sally.

Considering he made the character for Karl Bollers and Sally, who is technically his basis, was made for the cartoons, no. You don't like the reboot Sally?

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1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Considering he made the character for Karl Bollers and Sally, who is technically his basis, was made for the cartoons, no. You don't like the reboot Sally?

I hate preboot sally

And reboot sally is nothing, they made her flawed but her flaws did nothing for me. She isnt bad but just nothing, i feel the same about the rest of the ff sans sega bros. They feel underdeveloped and nothing but they try to get reactions out of me...but nothing. Rotor is on a whole other level of bad though ( to be forreal, I think they they could have tossed him,) but yeah.

I didnt like sally at all preboot, and for me the only good thing she did was on and off date sonic, so amy kinda got over it and became a cooler character because those developments. But with relationships gone, theirs lives and motivations rebooted. She cant do the one thing i found her useful for nor do I find her useful now.

To say that I dont like reboot sally seems dishonest, I continue to question why's she still here and thats what I dont like. 

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So being the team tactician isn't useful?

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17 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

So being the team tactician isn't useful?

Yes.

She has the same problem, as rouge, which is she is supposed to be a valuable member of the team, but she isn't. She hasn't really done anything for me, that has made me go " ok this is why you are on this team. ". While yes, in rouge's case she's on the team with a literal actual robot and someone who seems beyond confident in combat, but at least they try to put her as a voice of reason, but she isn't put in a position where sensible mind... is ever useful or right hell in the last sonic universe she already made the mistake of going with amy that already isn't working out.  Even when she was actual right, she was completely useless in combat and broke her arm.

Same with sally, you call her a tactician but if you ain't tactician very good, or even at all , and even more so in a compelling way... what does that title mean. She doesn't seem like she's weaving elaborate plans, for the most part all the plans for the last while ended up as " werewolf sonic does thing " and that's been the long and the short of it. Like give me a compelling believable story where she is the most useful, but that can't happen, sonic has to be, because he's sonic. Same with rouge and shadow.

When I see full on carrying multiple squads at once, tacticianshop , i'll give her her credit. Until then that title means fuck all. 

its about showing not telling all the time in this medium, and Ian kind of seems to have a problem with that, in general

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On 7/24/2016 at 2:25 AM, Predabros CC14 said:

Heard you peeps like #284 peeks:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

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This line just exudes Shardiness. XD

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"SMASHING! YOUR FACES IN!"

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Bit more refined than his magical flying underpants. XD

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Also, Off-Panel:

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Enjoy!

 

I should not have read that panel in Tim Curry's voice.

I shouldn't have. But I did anyways and laughed.

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53 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Yes.

She has the same problem, as rouge, which is she is supposed to be a valuable member of the team, but she isn't. She hasn't really done anything for me, that has made me go " ok this is why you are on this team. ". While yes, in rouge's case she's on the team with a literal actual robot and someone who seems beyond confident in combat, but at least they try to put her as a voice of reason, but she isn't put in a position where sensible mind... is ever useful or right hell in the last sonic universe she already made the mistake of going with amy that already isn't working out.  Even when she was actual right, she was completely useless in combat and broke her arm.

Same with sally, you call her a tactician but if you ain't tactician very good, or even at all , and even more so in a compelling way... what does that title mean. She doesn't seem like she's weaving elaborate plans, for the most part all the plans for the last while ended up as " werewolf sonic does thing " and that's been the long and the short of it. Like give me a compelling believable story where she is the most useful, but that can't happen, sonic has to be, because he's sonic. Same with rouge and shadow.

When I see full on carrying multiple squads at once, tacticianshop , i'll give her her credit. Until then that title means fuck all. 

its about showing not telling all the time in this medium, and Ian kind of seems to have a problem with that, in general

Lol, dude all I can day is thst you make absolutely no sense with that critique and are just coming off more spiteful than anything expecting even more from Sally than Sonic himself. And that's saying a lot as it is.

Not even going to address your points on it either, since not only are you being dishonest but anything useful she actually  has done means nothing to you.

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1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

She doesn't seem like she's weaving elaborate plans, for the most part all the plans for the last while ended up as " werewolf sonic does thing " and that's been the long and the short of it. 

Which plans and which stories did this happen in?

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27 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Lol, dude all I can day is thst you make absolutely no sense with that critique and are just coming off more spiteful than anything expecting even more from Sally than Sonic himself. And that's saying a lot as it is.

Not even going to address your points on it either, since not only are you being dishonest but anything useful she actually  has done means nothing to you.

To be spiteful requires a disdain for this character. I i want to like the ff, except rotor you can call me spiteful towards rotor throw him in the garbage.  I dont feel like they are giving her enough credit, this isnt spite. This me wanting the character and rouge to actually be better.

 

As to your "does nothing compelling to me" yes.I said that from the beginning,this is how I feel, if you feel differently thats fine. Dont know why you needed to say that.

Why not instead of being dismissive and stuff, communicate.

Dissagree tell me why?

Just trying to be friendly.

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Oooh, Sally discussion. Too bad topic will any minute change to StH 284.

I think most of us can agree than pre-Flynn Archie Sally wasn't that great. She ether whined, cried or was part of Sonic/Sally/Geof/Mina/Khan/Antoine love hexagon. I can't think of a single story  where she did something really clever or badass

The interesting part is comparing Satam Sally and Flynn Sally. The first one was star of the show. She was the smartest, all the drama resolved around her, Sonic had real chemistry with her... but she also felt kinda 'mary sue-ish'.  Maybe it's because I grew up on Dreamcast Sonic, but I always hated how dumb they made Sonic, just to make Sally look better.

Flynn did everything to fix those problems. Sonic is not dumb, but Sally still gives all the orders and solves intellectual problems (wolf/felidae war, taking down Egg Phoenix etc). She also makes mistakes and show weakness from time to time, to prove she's a person (I do wish she didn't need a hug every time she messes up though. 209, 256, 267, I hope she skips that phase in upcoming tragedy.) But game has changed, and with weaknesses she lost many of her assets. Her banter with Sonic is a lot weaker, but bigger problem is that she's no longer star of a show. Tails Rotor, Bunnie and Nicole take much more screen time than in cartoon, there are Sega characters, Archie characters, etc. That's why preboot Sally gave orders, but rarely was part of the action, and reboot Sally can kick ass, but she doesn't have any conflicts/drama/arcs focused around her. Lastly, Satam Sonally were a team, an equals. He would impress her, she would impress him, but at the show finale, they both defeated Robotnik. Now Sonic is the man, with Sally being first of his many sidekicks (with Tails and Amy sharing this spot). Over all she's still strong fighter and competent strategist, but I doubt anyone will fall in love in her now. It would be like becoming Shadow fan after playing only Heroes or Dark Brotherhood.

Over all I don't hate her, but never seen the appeal, there are more colorful, more badass, more complex characters then her. Maybe she just needs a story to herself, that focuses on her drama, not Nicole , withe her taking down the villain, not Sonic.

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Has anyone re read the story where Knuckles and Sally reminisce on old times and then had a falling out because Knuckles wouldn't join her cause? 

Sally is actually a huge bitch in that story because she unfairly gets on Knuckles case because he didn't help her convince the Brotherhood to help her join the Robotnik war. Even though Knuckles at the time had near no influence on what the BoG went about their descion making and he couldn't change a system overnight. But yet Sally doesn't respect or sympathize with Knuckles, she's just mad she doesn't bend down to HER needs and wants,if he's not with her he's against her by her logic. 

Sally pulled similar shit  when she had the fucking gall to get mad at Sonic for wanting to be a hero and save lives over being by her side. But the narrative always made us want to believe that she was justified in both these instances. 

My point is that although Ian had a lot of problems writing Sally I never thought she was an awful person at least 

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5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Yes.

She has the same problem, as rouge, which is she is supposed to be a valuable member of the team, but she isn't. She hasn't really done anything for me, that has made me go " ok this is why you are on this team. ". Even when she was actual right, she was completely useless in combat and broke her arm.

Same with sally, you call her a tactician but if you ain't tactician very good, or even at all , and even more so in a compelling way... what does that title mean. Like give me a compelling believable story where she is the most useful, but that can't happen, sonic has to be, because he's sonic. Same with rouge and shadow.

When I see full on carrying multiple squads at once, tacticianshop , i'll give her her credit. Until then that title means fuck all. 

its about showing not telling all the time in this medium, and Ian kind of seems to have a problem with that, in general

On Rouge, she has a multitude of skills that Sally either doesn't have or that Rouge doesn't use very often because she is only occassionally put in a situation where she can utilize them, so I don't think they're really comparable.

The broken arm thing is definitely being very unfair though, considering she was up against a villain who is custom made to be able to neutralize Shadow, who is mostly likely far more powerful than she is. And that's without the new powers he had just used for the first time.

Same with the tactician thing; you see to be setting incredibly high expectations for Sally to impress you, especially since she'd rarely be in a situation where she could order multiple squads without stealing up the spotlight.

However, you are absolutely correct about the show don't tell thing. I suggest writing in to Archie asking for Sally or Rouge to get some proper pagetime and focus so those abilities may be put ot use.

 

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Why on earth are we giving shit for Rouge being "useless" in that fight when it was the same fight where Omega got his fucking robot heart ripped out? If anything I thought it was badass of Rouge to  bounce back and FIX her broken arm because she didn't have the time to waste bring injured 

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Not to mention that even both Knuckles and Shadow together coudn't beat Eclipse with his Dark Wisps. So blaming Rouge for not be able to stand against him is pretty unfair.

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Okay, so I got 284. The real Ian's back, everyone!

Lol, not that he wasn't there, just saying that after several previous issues of rushed pacing and lackluster moments it feels good to see Ian have more room to flesh things out and let loose within the confines of the setting. 

Let's start off with the pacing, since that was the main problem with previous issues post-Worlds Unite. Not a single moment feels wasted. This is really saying something given the large cast this single issue has:

  • Sonic, Tails, Sally, Rotor, NICOLE, Bunnie, and Chip on the FF side (7 characters)
  • Battle Lord XV, Speedy, and Phage for the Eggman/Armada attack force (3 characters - 4 if including Tails Doll)
  • Gemerl and Nigel Acorn for the defending team at Mobotropolis (2 characters)
  • and Metal Sonic, Carrotia, Bearenger, Fockewulf, Nack, Bean, and Back for the Mobotropolis invasion force (7 characters)

A whopping 19 characters condensed intp one issue that isn't divided into two separate sub-stories. And given how it switches from one place to another, it definitely feels like a coordinated attack of Eggman's. Which brings me to the next part.

The premise. Eggman makes a pre-emptive assault on both the Freedom Fighters and the Kingdom of Acorn to get the key artifacts of this entire adaptation: the Chaos Emeralds, the Gaia Keys, and perhaps more importantly, Chip/Light Gaia himself! Previous issues went about on search missions and humanitarian aid (somewhat) in which the former lacked a lot of punch while the latter made up for it in bonding and worldbuilding. Rather lacking as far as general storytelling goes, which isn't helped by how much they dragged on, so this is certainly refreshing and fully of energy to see it all culminate to this moment and is a rather excellent build-up to the climax. While Eggman himself doesn't make an appearance, his forces do, and in a way that tilts all of the failures and setbacks Robotnik suffered back into his court.

The issue itself is intense for the beginning of a four-parter, reminiscent of Eggman's victory back in 175 when he destroyed Knothole and beat Sonic one-on-one. Here, Eggman triumphs once again over Sonic and his friends, albeit indirectly through the Battle Birds, Phage, Team Hooligan, Team Witchcarter, and Metal Sonic. In a way, the scale here feels larger, although less personal at the moment since Eggy isn't present to do it himself (for now). The events that took place were already outlined earlier, so I'm not going to bother repeating what was already said. In short, the Freedom Fighters are overwhelmed and are heavily beaten in their fight with the Battle Lord.

Now the most surprising part came from King Nigel Acorn, who ends up showing himself as quite a badass. This guy stares down Team Hooligan, and nearly wins with his energy sword and shield (damn that is badass) while outnumbered 3 to 1 - he takes down Nack and shieldbashes Bean, but Bark hammers him to the ground.

All of this makes me eager to see part 2.

Now, there were some nitpicks that weren't that big an issue but were confusing at times. I'm not usually one to complain about coloring, as that is my weakest part ot criticize, but the opening scene where Hooligan and Witchcarter are attacking Mobotropolis felt iffy and hard to make out the characters. That might just be me tho. Also, one of the scene transitions where Gemerl tries to stop Metal Sonic, only to be held back by Team Hooligan and Witchcarters was hard to make out, and they don't even show Bean busting open the vault (come on, we've gotta see that part at least) or Metal and Gemerl impacting as they fly at each other. Like I said, these are nitpicks, but they could have really added to the moment.

All in all, this is what we've been waiting for guys! Here's to part 2!

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