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Unless Ian says otherwise, I think Advance 3 is essentially replacing the role of the 'Genesis' arc entirely. The only other mention of Genesis Waves that Naugus gives in that exposition-dump is the one from Worlds Collide. It doesn't bother me too much, since I find 'Genesis' to just fit better overall within the old universe than the new one.

Still, it seems like we may now have a clearer image of what Eggman did during that time:

  • Launches first Genesis Wave (Advance 3) which is ultimately undone.
  • Laughs off the powerless Naugus, but loses some tech.
  • Eventually launches his Interstellar Amusement Park plan. (Colours)
  • Gets launched into space and encounters Time Eater. (Generations)
  • Gets out of White Space thanks to Dr. Wily.
  • Sends Tails Doll to Mobotropolis for... reasons? (Maybe Naugus-related)
  • Launches second Genesis Wave in Skull Egg Zone. (Worlds Collide)

And we know what happens after that. I'm kinda surprised at how well some of these pieces are beginning to line up.

 

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4 minutes ago, Captain Metallix said:
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Unless Ian says otherwise, I think Advance 3 is essentially replacing the role of the 'Genesis' arc entirely. The only other mention of Genesis Waves that Naugus gives in that exposition-dump is the one from Worlds Collide. It doesn't bother me too much, since I find 'Genesis' to just fit better overall within the old universe than the new one.

Still, it seems like we may now have a clearer image of what Eggman did during that time:

  • Launches first Genesis Wave (Advance 3) which is ultimately undone.
  • Laughs off the powerless Naugus, but loses some tech.
  • Eventually launches his Interstellar Amusement Park plan. (Colours)
  • Gets launched into space and encounters Time Eater. (Generations)
  • Gets out of White Space thanks to Dr. Wily.
  • Sends Tails Doll to Mobotropolis for... reasons? (Maybe Naugus-related)
  • Launches second Genesis Wave in Skull Egg Zone. (Worlds Collide)

And we know what happens after that. I'm kinda surprised at how well some of these pieces are beginning to line up.

 

Eggman sent Tails Doll to Mobotropolis for revenge against Walter stealing his technology. And I like how they actually acknowledged Wally getting his pre-reboot memories back! (Though I still wish we got more closure on that)

And I gotta say, that's a pretty clever way to explain the origin of Genesis Waves in the new continuity!

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I really don't like the fact that Sonic: Genesis is canon in the new continuity. There's just something that really makes me feel like it doesn't fit in with the new timeline at all. It's probably (actually, now that I think about it, it is) the designs of the characters, namely Sally, Rotor, and Antoine. Saying that Genesis, a story arc that featured the characters looking different than how they appear now, happening in the new timeline just doesn't settle in as easy as Worlds Collide, since Worlds Collide only had SEGA characters (and we know they won't change their designs anytime soon). I think it would be better and wouldn't hurt at all to say Genesis actually never happened in the new timeline, but hey, I'm not the writer. I don't know what Ian has planned.

(also I'm BlueSpeeder and I'm new here so hi everyone!)

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2 minutes ago, BlueSpeeder said:

I really don't like the fact that Sonic: Genesis is canon in the new continuity. There's just something that really makes me feel like it doesn't fit in with the new timeline at all. It's probably (actually, now that I think about it, it is) the designs of the characters, namely Sally, Rotor, and Antoine. Saying that Genesis, a story arc that featured the characters looking different than how they appear now, just doesn't settle in as easy as Worlds Collide, since Worlds Collide only had SEGA characters (and we know they won't change their designs anytime soon). I think it would be better and wouldn't hurt at all to say Genesis actually never happened in the new timeline, but hey, I'm not the writer. I don't know what Ian has planned.

(also I'm BlueSpeeder and I'm new here so hi everyone!)

Well, we don't know if the Freedom Fighters had their classic designs in this iteration of the story, just like how Worlds Collide happened slightly differently post-reboot. 

Also, welcome to the forum!

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12 minutes ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Eggman sent Tails Doll to Mobotropolis for revenge against Walter stealing his technology. And I like how they actually acknowledged Wally getting his pre-reboot memories back! (Though I still wish we got more closure on that)

And I gotta say, that's a pretty clever way to explain the origin of Genesis Waves in the new continuity!

Ah, right. They probably mentioned why Tails Doll was there early on in the reboot. As for the memories, it looked like Wally doesn't actually remember what exactly phazed him, just that something did (and of course, he correctly thought it was related to the G-Waves).

Just now, BlueSpeeder said:

I really don't like the fact that Sonic: Genesis is canon in the new continuity. There's just something that really makes me feel like it doesn't fit in with the new timeline at all. It's probably (actually, now that I think about it, it is) the designs of the characters, namely Sally, Rotor, and Antoine. Saying that Genesis, a story arc that featured the characters looking different than how they appear now, just doesn't settle in as easy as Worlds Collide, since Worlds Collide only had SEGA characters (and we know they won't change their designs anytime soon). I think it would be better and wouldn't hurt at all to say Genesis actually never happened in the new timeline, but hey, I'm not the writer. I don't know what Ian has planned.

(also I'm BlueSpeeder and I'm new here so hi everyone!)

Greeting, BlueSpeeder!

Again, it looks to me like the events of 'Genesis' have basically been replaced with the plot of Sonic Advance 3. So instead of a heavily-abridged version of Sonic 1&2 guest-starring the Freedom Fighters, we get Sonic and Tails travelling through Pocket Dimensions to fix reality. (Oh, and stop Gemerl too.) It seems like Worlds Collide is still treated as just the second occurance of the Genesis Wave, the third being the Super G-Wave that reset all of reality and shattered the planet.

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*That Chaotix solicit*

Um, that's the plot of Sonic Universe 48, with a slight difference.

- Chaotix were tracking down Mighty in the desert region.

- Joined the Desert Egg Legion as part of that plan.

The cover there even has the same bondage idea. This feels like Deja vu. 

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Also, that StH solicit is not changing my mind about not renewing my subscription.

6 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

*That Chaotix solicit*

Um, that's the plot of Sonic Universe 48, with a slight difference.

- Chaotix were tracking down Mighty in the desert region.

- Joined the Desert Egg Legion as part of that plan.

The cover there even has the same bondage idea. This feels like Deja vu. 

:shock:...Da hell?!

 

So, they got captured by an Otter version of Captain Metal? Okay, I'm down for that.

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So Genesis of a Hero is gonna give us a taste of every main classic game? (1, 2, CD, and 3&K) Neat. I'm looking forward to seeing Silver Sonic 1.0 in action! (Though it begs the question of why Sonic fought the prototype after the first real one)

So if part 1 shows us either the beginning or end of Sonic 1 (Depending on whether Sonic fought Eggman or Snively in Green Hill), and part 2 shows us the home stretch of Sonic 2, what parts of CD and 3&K will be shown? (The Metal Sonic race is extremely likely, but 3&K's scene could be anything)

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4 minutes ago, Forte-Metallix said:

So Genesis of a Hero is gonna give us a taste of every main classic game? (1, 2, CD, and 3&K) Neat. I'm looking forward to seeing Silver Sonic 1.0 in action! (Though it begs the question of why Sonic fought the prototype after the first real one)

I think the implied idea behind the prototype was to be a convenient obstacle for Eggman's patchjob "Kidnap Tails and have Breezie lead Sonic along" plan. That plan quickly fell apart when Sonic managed to catch up to Eggman and the Naugus Twins showed up at the Egg Storm Chamber, forcing Eggman to unsuccessfully cut his losses and run.

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I hope that there's actually going to be a genuine detective story told with this Chaotix Arc. Getting rid of Mighty as the center focus was a nice step-up but it'd be perfect if I could get some super sleuthing on top of that.

I don't have any clue what this Genesis thing is. I must have missed something again. Is this going to be a significantly more important story about the past due to it being in Sonic Universe? Like a foundation for stuff in this new continuity?

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

I hope that there's actually going to be a genuine detective story told with this Chaotix Arc. Getting rid of Mighty as the center focus was a nice step-up but it'd be perfect if I could get some super sleuthing on top of that.

I don't have any clue what this Genesis thing is. I must have missed something again. Is this going to be a significantly more important story about the past due to it being in Sonic Universe? Like a foundation for stuff in this new continuity?

I guess. By the way, are you the guy who said he didn't like Mighty that one time? If so, do you elaborating on that?

Also, I'm pretty sure the Genesis thing is going to be in the main book.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I guess. By the way, are you the guy who said he didn't like Mighty that one time? If so, do you elaborating on that?

Also, I'm pretty sure the Genesis thing is going to be in the main book.

Yes, I am. Do I have to elaborate on it? My reasoning is gonna come off as extremely bitter and unrelentingly selfish to you most likely.

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Just now, Dr. Chaotix said:

Yes, I am. Do I have to elaborate on it? My reasoning is gonna come off as extremely bitter and unrelentingly selfish to you most likely.

Maybe? I was just genuinely curious since whenever Mighty shows up, the forum tends to have a positive reaction by default. So having someone state they aren't too thrilled about it is intriguing, if only for the odd man out factor.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Maybe? I was just genuinely curious since whenever Mighty shows up, the forum tends to have a positive reaction by default. So having someone state they aren't too thrilled about it is intriguing, if only for the odd man out factor.

I'm always the odd man out. I've got Charmy Bee as my avatar.

Alright then. This is going to get me into a lot of trouble but fuck it. You asked nicely.

I don’t get Mighty the Armadillo. I never could wrap my head around why the hell he was so popular and It really pisses me off not being able to crack the code on this one.  I’ve been thoroughly convinced that people who say they love Mighty are only saying that based on an idea of who his character could be and not by who he actually is, because who he actually is has never been all that well defined. And this is only within the context of the games. I haven't even started talking about the comics yet.

Character definition wasn't much when he was introduced and yet people still liked Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles fine as characters. There are ways to define who a character is in a 2D game outside of just what their profile says so I figured they must have really liked his. All I got from reading his was that he was a pacifist or something. If there was more to it than that then I never found it out.

I guess other people did because nowadays whenever the guy gets brought up all I hear are outcries for his return. This epic return that's being dreamed up by so many people feels like a weird dream. I’ve asked around too. For years, the answers I’ve gotten have all been, as you might have guessed, very inconclusive. And a little anger inducing to be honest.

Not only are all the reasons extremely vague but they're all the same. It’s either something about how interesting a design he has or the potential he could exhibit should he come back. That does nothing for me because I've always found "potential" to be a relatively useless word when it comes to something as blank as Mighty. If his position were like Fang's, then I'd get it a little more, but the traits he exhibits I've already found explored in existing characters already. Part of why it’s so annoying that the current cast isn't getting any exposure anymore is because they’re all not living up to their own potential. I can use that word for the rest of the cast because I know that they've got something inherently separate to provide that's worth expanding upon. So I also tend to get a little angry when people say he should come back. The clusterfuck of the scrapped characters coming into the mix when SEGA can't even handle the ones they currently have fills me with dread too.

Even more confusing are the things he’s stated to have had potential for. His personality is pretty basic, with bits taken from characters who, again, already exist within the main series. He doesn’t have anything to offer gameplay wise that we don’t already have access to either. Some say they just want him back because he’s “Cool”. That's the one I hear the most often. I dunno how he's cool, he just is. He didn’t need to do anything to be that way but be an old scrapped character from a few games not many have played.

What’s ironic is that the instant he does come back into the games he’ll be given a personality that a lot of people are most likely going to be underwhelmed by. 

So that's just an explanation on why his popularity baffles me outside of the comics. If I missed something super crucial that has never been brought up before when it comes to that (I doubt it) and I didn't mention it here I'm sure someone will tell me about it... and it won't make any sense either. And I'll remain confused in the end.

But part of the reason for his popularity is most likely due to his presence in the comics. For the mainstream crowd, I kind of doubt it though, since no one ever brings up the comics when speaking about wanting him back in all the places I've been. He’s got nothing all the interesting going for him there either. In fact, for me, it was worse. At least (once again) before the reboot. Needless to say, I hated seeing him as a part of the Chaotix. The way I was introduced to the Chaotix as a kid had them as a three man team of misfits that worked off well with one another despite that, which created an interesting dynamic. Unless that was somehow showcased in Knuckles' Chaotix without any dialogue it's not something that exists within the games either. I sure as hell didn't think it worked in the comics. He was so uninteresting and bland. It hurt.
 

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This is going to sound incredibly mean but I found it really hard to take this seriously.

 

Mighty just came off as a character who was incredibly plain but for some reason was also put on a distractedly high pedastol for being incredibly strong. The moments where they made mention of him being so much stronger then Vector and the parts where he was tearing apart tanks and crunching medal just rubbed me the wrong way. It was one of those instances where I couldn't find a way to get past how distracting it was. He was being championed and pushed up front as a incredible influence that deserved more attention then quite a lot of people there and the issues weren't doing a good job of justifying why to me.

In short, his popularity is something I don't understand and he was being shoved in my face all the time whenever I wanted to enjoy a story relegated to the characters I liked. Overexposure to him would have been something I could easily have dealt with had he been interesting but he was about as interesting as a loaf of white bread to me. A character this boring being pushed to the forefront over some of my favorites for reasons I couldn't grasp leads to frustration and that usually leads to anger.

All the Chaotix talk in "Knuckles: The Return" SU Arc felt so alien to me. Every scene with Vector and Ray distracted me. I couldn't help but think to myself, "Why is Ray here? Why is Charmy not here? Shouldn't he be having these moments with Charmy? Everything Ray is saying and doing here is exactly what I'd expect Charmy to say and do. They might as well be the same character aside from the weird stuttering gimmick they gave him." Ray began acting a little different as a character after that arc but Mighty didn't. 

The tip of the Iceberg was that Chaotix Quest Arc. When the cover for that was revealed I got excited, but then I read the description and found out it was a story about them trying to get Mighty back. I tried to deal with it, figuring it still probably be about the three of them on a journey together. And it was for the first two issues. But it very quickly just became a Mighty-centric story about his little sister and Ray and I just didn't give a fuck anymore. 

That and the whole Charmy Mind-wipe thing they did to his then 16-year-old character to make him act like a 6-year-old was something that was really sticking out as a sore spot for his inclusion in anything. You could tell by reading it that they literally only had him here out of obligation and for the sake of having all three of the Game Chaotix on the cover for the sake of marketing. In the book he does nothing and despite the attempts to give him little bits and pieces here and there it fizzles out completely by the third issue when Mighty and Ray have to step in to snatch the plot away. The decision to do that to Charmy's brain will always baffle me as well. The kid was practically a Greek Tragedy figure in the old continuity.

So yeah. I think he's bland and boring and I don't understand why he's popular. Even characters I don't like as much within the fanbase like Silver and to a certain extent Blaze, I can at the very least understand why they're popular. It only got worse when I found an outlet for story-telling within the series in the comics that the games weren't providing and yet I was still stumbling upon this roadblock towards the path of enjoying the characters the way I wanted to enjoy them by being forced to accept that Mighty and Ray were Chaotix members and that Knuckles was their fucking leader.

Lots of things in the old continuity roadblocked me from enjoyment really. I like this new one a lot better, despite some things still being a sore spot for me. At least it seems I can actually ignore Mighty in this universe now. And Master Moss is a great character.

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Woooah...wall of text!

I'm torn being saying your hangup in not your fault but also mostly in your head. You seem to have had a hard time dealing with an old character you didn't really get due to being so used to a newer, hipper world in the games. Almost makes me wonder how you see the other characters with a similar nature....

I think the fascination with Game Mighty in particular is due to the novelty of being a part of the Classic era, as well as the (arguably fulfilled) potential for a neat side character. He was introduced as being a peace loving, if not pacifistic guy who loves to travel the world. The Knuckles, Mighty, and the Chaotix thing is a by product of the original game, which existed for years before the Chaotix were remade as new characters for Sonic Heroes. Thus, a lot of people consider them to be linked as buddy misfits, which combined with his history and similarities to Sonic make him such a interesting character for some. I guess that makes you a wippersnapper. :lol:

In the comic's, his portrayal was...a bit varied. Ken Penders initially portrayed him as being pretty similar to Espio except more lighthearted and with super strength before developing his more well-known personality in side stories, Karl Bollers apparently saw him as a Bruiser who asked questions later, and finally Ian Flynn expanded on the later Ken Penders version which wasn't too far off from the games. So, Mighty is basically an active, but kind guy gifted with super strength that he normally uses to protect his friends and innocents from the forces of evil.

Unfortunately, Knuckles stories in general seemed to have been cursed prereboot because there was just so much lore, character, and "baggage" to contend with and circumstances outside of Mr. Flynn's control meant a lot of things got pushed back. We have the stuff with Albion getting bombed, the Brotherhood of Guardians going missing, the remainder Knuckles's family and the citizens of Echidnaopolis being moved to Albion's ruins on the Day of Transit, that one Nocturnus backup story that got replaced at the last minute, the Dingo Regime being banished to Sandopolis Zone, Knuckles being relunctant to face his people again after what he feels he did, General Von Stryker planning to make a comeback now that the Dingoes have someplace to call home, Dimitri's reformation and assignment to Haven, Dr. Finitevus's plans involving Knuckles and Moebius, the revelation of Enerjak being a cyclical presence, the implications of a longstanding feud between the Echidnas and the Devil Dogs brought about by the secret sins of Albion, Lien-Da becoming Grandmaster and planning to reunite Echidna kind under her control, and finally Thrash's quest and gray vs. grey rivalry with Knuckles, which infamously got butchered at the last minute of Part Two's script.

The Chaotix were grandfathered into the canon as misfit friends of Knuckles who hang out with him and help him protect what's his when not off having their own wacky adventures. So while Julie-Su had family issues brewing in the background and Saffron was mostly just taking care of Charmy before her intended emergency push into action, Vector had a resented past with Downunda that he didn't want anyone to know about, Espio was receiving a decent amount of focus due to his connections with the Shinobi Clan and brief betrayal of the Chaotix, and Charmy had lost most of his people besides Saffron and had his memories jeopardize by Eggman as a demonstration. Charmy in general is a character that doesn't have the best portrayal or reception, so blaming Mighty for the comic's version getting shafted at times is hardly fair.

His reboot portrayal does what I agree is best and has him (and his stalward buddy Ray) off somewhere else tending to his own business while also having past ties to Sonic, Knuckles, and the Chaotix on his resume. And while some may contest the decision to do so, the implications that he had trouble with his temper and strength in the past that he had to find temperance for does give him an implied arc that makes him a little more than a nice traveler with super strength. So, while I do hope you don't let what Hype Backlash you seem to have keep you down forever, he at least has some material to help him stand on his own.

Also, Charmy is one of those game characters I would like to see get some positive portrayal in the limelight, along with Cream, Omega, and Marine.

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14 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

He was introduced as being a peace loving, if not pacifistic guy who loves to travel the world. 

No he wasn't. I'm going to talk in more general terms after, but I'm addressing this first because it's a factual error. His introduction in SegaSonic the Hedgehog gave him zero personality, but what hints we got didn't allude to peace loving maybe-pacifist at all. That was made up for the Chaotix manual. 

And ironically, the rest of the Chaotix (aside from Espio) were brought together by bringing in different concepts from different games, so they weren't even linked in the first place because of their wildly different origins. This is further reinforced by how Espio branched off alone for Sonic the Fighters; no reference had to be made to Chaotix because back then it was a one-time gig and not them becoming buddies. The Western side would have seen very little of this background, but the fact is that what they considered was always going to prove wrong, and them getting attached to the comic Chaotix and projecting it onto the games only compounded things when the inevitable finally happened. 

It's also kind of a cruel irony as well; to reintroduce a character, they all went by the Sonic Team personality, not ones made outside of that (like Chaotix wasn't Sonic Team personalities). But since Mighty has no Sonic Team personality, they'd probably default to the one that wasn't Chaotix because of how it was disregarded for the others. Thus his personality would be that of a tough brute like Knuckles and not the pacifist from Chaotix and the Archie comic, so a majority of Mighty fans would be disappointed anyway. Well, maybe not StC fans.

 

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*walks in with that same link in hand*

...godammit VEDJ-F.

But anyway, that does sadden me a little. I'm one of the few who genuinly loved Genesis as a story. Ah well, time to go and edit several Mobius Encyclopaedia pages... P;

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That reminds me...

When people say "Sonic Team should put [obscure game character] in the games again!", what kind of design/personality are they expecting to see: the comic version, or they're ok with anything as long as the character is in the game? When Honey was introduced in the comic, I've seen a few fans angry at the team for scrapping her, saying the comic treat them better and deserve another chance. And I'm guessing they've been saying it for the other characters too.

Generations referenced the original Mighty&Ray, Bean&Bark (did the game imported the comic's criminal career or they were originally villians?) and Fang/Nack via posters. But since they were created when the whole concept/image of 'Sonic' wasn't set, since the original game didn't give them much personalities and I don't think the comic version will fit the game, if they actually do appear again I prefer their design to be tweaked a little and given completely new personalities to fit the current Sonic game-verse.

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Just now, KoDaiko said:

Bean&Bark (did the game imported the comic's criminal career or they were originally villians?) 

They weren't villains originally, as far as I know.

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