Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Borvoc]

Hey, @Ernest-Panda. Do you think you could put colored eyes on the Fulop lawsuit too? I have a feeling that might also help. I'm not sure what color would be best.

Edit: All things being equal, we could assume green.

[JC_Mike]

4 hours ago, Zaysho said:

As I recall, the creative team had to fight to keep the FF in the reboot.

You know, I really wish that Ian or anybody else on the creative team (at the time the reboot occurred) would/could give more info on just the reasons why they needed to fight. I hold the belief that it wasn't exactly because they hated the FF because Penders wrote much of the backstories for them; but rather that they were uncertain that they could still use them after the fact. I don't really like how Jon Gray used the word "fight" to describe what had happened because it implies that there was a lot of shouting and anger and short-fused executives who basically threw up their hands and said "Fine! Whatever, use them". Granted that could have been unfortunately the case back then. But now, with both companies having gone through a lot in the past 3 to 4 years, I can't seem to find a reason as to why they would want them removed now. Though its likely that we will never know what really happened around that time.

[ChromeDome93]

Hey everybody. I know I'm a bit of a nobody here as I've only posted a few times before, but I hope you take a look at what I'm laying out in the post below. I think if you look at things from a business stand point and remove the fandom from it, you'll start to see how my theory comes together.

You can read my previous posts on this subject here:

Everything that has occurred since late December involving Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog comics points to SEGA pulling the license from Archie unexpectedly at the end of 2016.

FACT: Archie was leading up to issue #300 of the ongoing series and issue #100 of Sonic Universe. Both of these key milestones were due out this year and would have been big sellers. Anniversary issues always sell well, and it's rare for any comic book series to reach those types of numbers these days.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: Archie would have these issues built into their projections for 2017. They would expect to sell X number of copies and would need $Y funds set aside for paper, printing, shipping, art costs, etc. Their subscriber base was growing and they rely upon renewals every month to bring in more revenue that they can use to produce future issues of the series, pay off debts, pay employees, etc. The books were a safe bet according to Archie, until they had the rug pulled out from under them.

FACT: New issues of SONIC, SONIC UNIVERSE, and SONIC MEGA DRIVE were being worked on up until the end of the year. We know this based on the release of covers in the January, February, March, and April solicits. The normal time-frame for an issue is 1-2 months from script to final product. The final issue of the SONIC MEGA DRIVE mini-series of one-shots was well in the works. Archie had to pay their freelancers to work on these assignments, including cover artwork, which means they were expecting to get a return on their investment.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: Freelancers have mentioned that they have stopped working on the titles and need something to replace the income they would have normally been receiving from working on these titles. If Archie had in fact planned on killing these books as some of you say, they would have told the artists ahead of time so they could look for additional work. As it stands, Ian and Ryan have received other assignments in the meantime, but Ian was always capable of working on multiple series at a time (see: Sonic/Sonic Universe/Boom/Mega Man). The statement that Tracy put out from Archie last month shows that Archie and SEGA are still in communication about the books.

FACT: It's a popular theory that the RIVERDALE tv show and comics are what led to the current situation. I don't think that's the case, and here's why: Riverdale launched in late January and was renewed in March. Work on this show went back several years, with the show filming in mid 2016. There was no guarantee that this show would do well, and as it is licensed through The CW, it's not something the majority of Archie's employees are working on. Their CEO and Chief Creative Officer are the two people from Archie who are directly involved with the show and their involvement in the comics side isn't as big as you might think. They're more focused on running the company and overseeing outside ventures like potential future TV shows, cartoons, plays, etc than they are in actually working on and producing the comics.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: Riverdale's ratings aren't lighting the world on fire and while it's been renewed for a second season, there's no guaranteed income associated with the show beyond the life of the production. If the show ends, any funds they would get from The CW for using the license would dry up. No show = no money

FACT: The last time the Archie brand was this relevant was probably in the 1960s. With increased exposure, their followers on social media have increased, new websites cover their products, and more people are paying attention to the brand and the characters.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: A rising tide raises all ships. The increased attention to the Archie brand as a whole would have meant increased attention for the Sonic comics as well. If Archie could head into the summer with a successful season of RIVERDALE completed, SONIC MANIA tie-in comics and SONIC FORCES tie-ins, they'd be involved in multiple areas: TV, video games, and comic books.

FACT: Like any company, Archie Comics relies on a steady stream of revenue to keep things going.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: It's no secret that they've had issues with finances in the past (see: the Kickstarter, which, despite what some people say, had nothing to do with Mega Man getting canceled. I've been told that was due to the license fee from Capcom putting the book into unprofitable territory.) Suddenly canceling their Sonic comics, which sell WELL and make them money, would mean they're getting rid of a sure thing for...what? Riverdale licensing fees from The CW? It would affect their bottom line too much for them to suddenly and without warning, cancel multiple issues while in production and not make a mention of it at all.

FACT: Archie and SEGA have not made any mention of Sonic or replied to any fans on social media about the issue since it began. Callers who reach the customer service department have received conflicting reports on the exact status of the comics. Ultimately, they've issued no comment on this matter except for the statement that Tracy shared about Archie and SEGA having discussions about the comic.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: If Archie is done with Sonic and the books are for sure done and gone, they would have a plan in place for all their subscribers and customers. Through either refunds, credit, or transferring their subs onto another book, they would have made that news well known early on, like they did with MEGA MAN and SONIC BOOM. Subscribers had their balance transferred to other titles when those books ended. The fact that Archie hasn't started issuing massive refunds means they're still trying to get SEGA to re-issue the license and let them continue publication. They likely have been instructed not to make any mention of the title or respond to anyone until the situation gets sorted out or things continue to blow up.

I think we'll see in the next few days or weeks how things go. If Archie releases a statement soon, we'll know one way or the other how things go. If they say something about "talks ongoing between Archie and SEGA", then I think you'll realize that this situation falls more on SEGA's lap than anyone else's.

IN CONCLUSION: If you really love these books, and I know so many of us do, we need to let SEGA and Archie know how much they mean to us. Reaching out to the social media accounts of ARCHIE and SONIC can only do so much as the people who run those channels are usually the last person in charge of any kind of decision making. I'd suggest writing letters and emails to both companies letting them know how much you want these books to continue and what they mean to you. And just remember, there are fans of SONIC at both Archie and SEGA that are probably just as frustrated about this as all of us. 

I hope you all gave this a read. Feel free to share it on other forums and let me know what you think.

 

 

[Dejimon11]

8 hours ago, Remynaka said:

The big question is does IDW or any other company WANT to do sonic comics? That's what I'm worried about, and can anyone else do the comic justice and not make it into a for kids only book that'll last for only like a season? I think Archie got away with so many issues - actual comic issues - is cause Sonic was their best selling book. I don't think Sonic would sell well under any other company.. I could be wrong but who knows. I'm just throwing snow balls here' - insert chicago accent-

IDW has done weirder things things and are pretty much kings of licensed books also considering how big of a name Sonic is I think most publishers would jump at the chance to get it. This comic has been running for over 24 years and and even tho Archie is irrelevant as hell nowadays it proves that there's still an audience for a Sonic comic. Imagine if SEGA were to be with a more well known company that would benefit them a lot. 

7 hours ago, Kintor said:

It's honestly still something of a mystery to me how Archie got the Sonic licence in the first place. In the 90s Sega could have gotten anybody, I mean anybody, in the comics industry to make Sonic tie-in material. For whatever reason Archie got the go ahead. Yet this relationship between Sega and Archie ultimately surpassed all expectations. At the time I don't think that anyone could have imagined that Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog would go on to become one of the longest running comics ever seen.

I don't think you realized the time period when the comic was made. This was back in the early 90's IDW and Boom Studios weren't a thing and Image comics had just started. Believe it or not this was at the time when Archie was big and the only reason why SEGA went to them in the first place was because they were the family friendly company. Also let's be real Marvel and DC at the time wouldn't have cared for it since they liked to focus on their original IPs. 

[JC_Mike]

That was a very good analysis you made there ChromeDome93. I do want to point out that Sega, or more specifically Aaron Webber has pointed out that they know that a lot of people have been asking them about the situation and they would let us know as soon as they have an update. The comics essentially are advertisements to the games with a continuous narrative and structure that has received numerous praise from the fans despite shortcomings in the past (i.e the Reboot).

Therefore, as I said in the past, it would not make any sense for them to just take that away because Archie got sued again. It's unfortunately really easy for companies to get into lawsuits in the US. Some dumb rich kid who has a Sonic OC could sue Archie and Sega because a character kind of looked like their OC, its that stupidly easy. So for Sega to just get "fed up" with a lawsuit is absurd because its real easy for them to get into another one over an even stupider reason. Thankfully lawsuits take way too much time, effort, and money for people to even care, but it could still happen.

Like you said, the sonic comics sell well enough, since Sega takes a cut from each comic that is being sold its seriously just free money to them. All they have to do is just approve ideas for the comic and Archie pretty much just handles all the dirty work. It's not like the lawsuit is hurting Sega either, its more of Archie that getting the punches (despite Scott wanting to keep Sega in for the $$$).

Also I wanted to point out that as part of this whole lawsuit, there is another lawsuit involving Archie suing Scott Fulop for slander that started in January. Like I said, its part of the whole lawsuit between Narrative Ark and Archie, so its not exactly separate. Which could be a good reason for the hiatus, as they would need to try and mitigate damages and they probably haven't found a way yet or have found another company to temporarily publish the comics and that is what the email is about.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

8 hours ago, Dejimon11 said:

IDW has done weirder things things and are pretty much kings of licensed books also considering how big of a name Sonic is I think most publishers would jump at the chance to get it. This comic has been running for over 24 years and and even tho Archie is irrelevant as hell nowadays it proves that there's still an audience for a Sonic comic. Imagine if SEGA were to be with a more well known company that would benefit them a lot. 

I don't think you realized the time period when the comic was made. This was back in the early 90's IDW and Boom Studios weren't a thing and Image comics had just started. Believe it or not this was at the time when Archie was big and the only reason why SEGA went to them in the first place was because they were the family friendly company. Also let's be real Marvel and DC at the time wouldn't have cared for it since they liked to focus on their original IPs. 

Archie was probably the lowest bidder, too.

[Kintor]

8 hours ago, Dejimon11 said:

I don't think you realized the time period when the comic was made. This was back in the early 90's IDW and Boom Studios weren't a thing and Image comics had just started. Believe it or not this was at the time when Archie was big and the only reason why SEGA went to them in the first place was because they were the family friendly company. Also let's be real Marvel and DC at the time wouldn't have cared for it since they liked to focus on their original IPs. 

Family friendly? You're kidding right?

Sega in the 90s was not a family friendly company. Sega's public image was all about being cool; pushing the boundaries of what was socially acceptable in video games. Sega's greatest triumph was successfully showing the world that video games could be played by teenagers and adults, not just children. Sonic the Hedgehog was also a big part of that as well, sure Sonic was a 'cartoon character' but he was also a cool pop-culture icon that nobody would be afraid to mention in public amongst adults. That's the important thing to understand about Sonic's reputation in the 90s; he quickly became more than a video game character and emerged as a hip celebrity in his own right. Everybody from pop stars like Michael Jackson to sports stars like Ayrton Senna wanted to be directly associated with Sonic. 

So there is no doubt at all that Sega could have chosen anybody in the comic industry to make licenced Sonic products. Image Comics (of Spawn fame) got started in 1992; they could've easily done something with Sonic (beyond that one crossover which shall not be named). Another good bet would've been Valiant Comics (X-O Manowar), who'd been active since 1989 before being bought out by Acclaim in 1994. As for the 'big two' they could've been brought on board to do a Sonic comic. After all, given the poor state of Marvel's finances in the 90s they would've leapt at the Sonic licence with the desperation of a drowning man. While DC in the 90s was in a better position they've never been one to refuse the chance to publish a licenced comic separate from their main universe.

Of course, Sega did go with Archie in the end; which has always been something of a strange relationship. Archie being trapped in the 40s/50s, while Sega being the epitome of 90s cool. But I suppose that Archie was trying to diversity in the 90s, with the whole Archie Adventure Series label being an attempt to do just that; Archie even published a successful Ninja Turtles comic from 1988-1995. That was probably a point in Archie's favour, they could reasonably argue to Sega that they were trying to shed their burdensome family friendly image and become something more acceptable to 90s pop culture. A pity then that Archie was never able to escape their past, that family friendly image will be the death of them as a publisher before much longer.

[Meta77]

15 hours ago, ChromeDome93 said:

Hey everybody. I know I'm a bit of a nobody here as I've only posted a few times before, but I hope you take a look at what I'm laying out in the post below. I think if you look at things from a business stand point and remove the fandom from it, you'll start to see how my theory comes together.

You can read my previous posts on this subject here:

Everything that has occurred since late December involving Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog comics points to SEGA pulling the license from Archie unexpectedly at the end of 2016.

FACT: Archie was leading up to issue #300 of the ongoing series and issue #100 of Sonic Universe. Both of these key milestones were due out this year and would have been big sellers. Anniversary issues always sell well, and it's rare for any comic book series to reach those types of numbers these days.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: Archie would have these issues built into their projections for 2017. They would expect to sell X number of copies and would need $Y funds set aside for paper, printing, shipping, art costs, etc. Their subscriber base was growing and they rely upon renewals every month to bring in more revenue that they can use to produce future issues of the series, pay off debts, pay employees, etc. The books were a safe bet according to Archie, until they had the rug pulled out from under them.

FACT: New issues of SONIC, SONIC UNIVERSE, and SONIC MEGA DRIVE were being worked on up until the end of the year. We know this based on the release of covers in the January, February, March, and April solicits. The normal time-frame for an issue is 1-2 months from script to final product. The final issue of the SONIC MEGA DRIVE mini-series of one-shots was well in the works. Archie had to pay their freelancers to work on these assignments, including cover artwork, which means they were expecting to get a return on their investment.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: Freelancers have mentioned that they have stopped working on the titles and need something to replace the income they would have normally been receiving from working on these titles. If Archie had in fact planned on killing these books as some of you say, they would have told the artists ahead of time so they could look for additional work. As it stands, Ian and Ryan have received other assignments in the meantime, but Ian was always capable of working on multiple series at a time (see: Sonic/Sonic Universe/Boom/Mega Man). The statement that Tracy put out from Archie last month shows that Archie and SEGA are still in communication about the books.

FACT: It's a popular theory that the RIVERDALE tv show and comics are what led to the current situation. I don't think that's the case, and here's why: Riverdale launched in late January and was renewed in March. Work on this show went back several years, with the show filming in mid 2016. There was no guarantee that this show would do well, and as it is licensed through The CW, it's not something the majority of Archie's employees are working on. Their CEO and Chief Creative Officer are the two people from Archie who are directly involved with the show and their involvement in the comics side isn't as big as you might think. They're more focused on running the company and overseeing outside ventures like potential future TV shows, cartoons, plays, etc than they are in actually working on and producing the comics.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: Riverdale's ratings aren't lighting the world on fire and while it's been renewed for a second season, there's no guaranteed income associated with the show beyond the life of the production. If the show ends, any funds they would get from The CW for using the license would dry up. No show = no money

FACT: The last time the Archie brand was this relevant was probably in the 1960s. With increased exposure, their followers on social media have increased, new websites cover their products, and more people are paying attention to the brand and the characters.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: A rising tide raises all ships. The increased attention to the Archie brand as a whole would have meant increased attention for the Sonic comics as well. If Archie could head into the summer with a successful season of RIVERDALE completed, SONIC MANIA tie-in comics and SONIC FORCES tie-ins, they'd be involved in multiple areas: TV, video games, and comic books.

FACT: Like any company, Archie Comics relies on a steady stream of revenue to keep things going.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: It's no secret that they've had issues with finances in the past (see: the Kickstarter, which, despite what some people say, had nothing to do with Mega Man getting canceled. I've been told that was due to the license fee from Capcom putting the book into unprofitable territory.) Suddenly canceling their Sonic comics, which sell WELL and make them money, would mean they're getting rid of a sure thing for...what? Riverdale licensing fees from The CW? It would affect their bottom line too much for them to suddenly and without warning, cancel multiple issues while in production and not make a mention of it at all.

FACT: Archie and SEGA have not made any mention of Sonic or replied to any fans on social media about the issue since it began. Callers who reach the customer service department have received conflicting reports on the exact status of the comics. Ultimately, they've issued no comment on this matter except for the statement that Tracy shared about Archie and SEGA having discussions about the comic.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: If Archie is done with Sonic and the books are for sure done and gone, they would have a plan in place for all their subscribers and customers. Through either refunds, credit, or transferring their subs onto another book, they would have made that news well known early on, like they did with MEGA MAN and SONIC BOOM. Subscribers had their balance transferred to other titles when those books ended. The fact that Archie hasn't started issuing massive refunds means they're still trying to get SEGA to re-issue the license and let them continue publication. They likely have been instructed not to make any mention of the title or respond to anyone until the situation gets sorted out or things continue to blow up.

I think we'll see in the next few days or weeks how things go. If Archie releases a statement soon, we'll know one way or the other how things go. If they say something about "talks ongoing between Archie and SEGA", then I think you'll realize that this situation falls more on SEGA's lap than anyone else's.

IN CONCLUSION: If you really love these books, and I know so many of us do, we need to let SEGA and Archie know how much they mean to us. Reaching out to the social media accounts of ARCHIE and SONIC can only do so much as the people who run those channels are usually the last person in charge of any kind of decision making. I'd suggest writing letters and emails to both companies letting them know how much you want these books to continue and what they mean to you. And just remember, there are fans of SONIC at both Archie and SEGA that are probably just as frustrated about this as all of us. 

I hope you all gave this a read. Feel free to share it on other forums and let me know what you think.

 

 

You can let Sega know all you want. But the sad fact is if they choose to end it. It ends.  It's no different than the pso crusades stateside mess or a company ending a popular show. Can it come bsck. Yes. Look at zim and jack.

But I'd hate to see it end seeing as I've been with the comic from it's first print but currently I consider it lightly dead. You do not hold off a comic this long and not talk about what's going on. The cheeky were looking into it responses seem odd. Lord if we have gave partners st my office that response you could expect a firing or lose of a contract.

[Borvoc]

@ChromeDome93 Welcome aboard, though I'm not sure I'm the right one to welcome you, being new myself. I think all but one or two of my posts to this forum are in this very tread, and I'm largely just here to monitor the current situation with the Archie Sonic comics. (Not that I necessarily won't stick around afterward, now that I'm here.) Nonetheless, nobody is a nobody!

I still think the main takeaway here is that the idea of Sega pulling the license from Archie is still just speculation, educated or not, and that even if it is true, we still don't know why. Is Sega unhappy with Archie? Maybe. Do they hate the Freedom Fighters? Maybe, but that's a long shot. Do they want to pull the comic from Archie permanently? Maybe. Or maybe they're covering their butts temporarily until the legal stuff blows over.

That latter possibility is the one I'm still subscribing to for now, as it's the least destructive possibility. I think that unnecessarily fearing (or for those who hate the book, hoping for) the worst can lead to unnecessary panic which can actually become its own narrative and negatively impact the book's real fate.

Hopefully Sega knows that people enjoy the books and support Archie, and hopefully Sega will act accordingly. I've already reached out to them on Twitter, which is not a thing I do, to state my own enjoyment of the book. Others may do the same if they feel like it, so long as no one makes a nuisance of himself. Otherwise, we're all just waiting, speculating, sharing news, and reminiscing about the good old times until the final word comes out.

[Your Vest Friend]

I'm really bored right now, so I'm doing some thinking warm-ups to try and fire off the synapses again. 

One thought did cross my mind in the process though; Iizuka-san. 

I know it seems random but bear with this thread of thought for a minute. Iizuka moved to the US and got directly involved with SoA in March 2016, correct? While he's been to the US for business twice before (the first for Sonic 3 and Knuckles with Naka's part of SEGA Technical Institute, the second for a period between Adventure 2 and Rivals 2 with SEGA Studios USA), this is the first time he's really gotten involved with the American side of things as the other two times were away from SEGA of America. While not necessarily his first exposure to the comic outright (because I'm sure people have shown him at Summer of Sonic and Sonic Boom conventions), it is probably the first time it's been brought up as part of work. And of course, even with the comic being closer to the games than before the reboot, it's still an outlier when you consider that SEGA/Sonic Team have devised a whole strategy around there being certain brands of Sonic. We know that the comic spent years coasting by under Penders because nobody was actually watching them, so could the principle hold true again, and it got caught out because of this move? 

[Borvoc]

That's an interesting thought, @VEDJ-F, and it could be true. My question would be why Archie Sonic couldn't be its own brand like Boom is if Sega really thinks it's necessary to separate it out like that. If Sega really does think the books are to far out there, which I disagree with, I think it would be more productive for them to guide them closer to what they want using mandates, etc., instead of shutting the comic down cold (which is more something you would do under legal trouble). In the end, any new interpretation or trans-media adaptation of any IP is going to need to be its own canon; otherwise, it can't tell its own stories and ends up failing, as we saw with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: New Animated Adventures before it had to branch out with more freedom in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Amazing Adventures.

[Your Vest Friend]

From Sonic Team's perspective, it's probably not distinct enough. Currently it tries to have all the modern games canon, but also tries to have all the classic games canon (including ones not even considered part of the classic series now), but also tries to bolt on two dead continuities (SatAM/AoStH), but also has its own exclusive elements. In terms of branding, it's a Frankenstein's monster of different brands from all over the place which, given how much importance Sonic Team have put on the differentiation of the different brands, isn't what they want. The only solution to that would be to decide a brand and stick to it, which would likely mean a cull with even more guts spilled than the reboot we got, at which point it basically loses its identity as Archie Sonic. It doesn't help that each of the different brands have a different looking Sonic between them, while Archie very much has modern Sonic and classic Sonic's visage. A different canon would probably require an altogether different approach. But since Sonic Team don't want four branches, and they don't seem to be interested in the comic as an avenue for the established branches...

[Borvoc]

@VEDJ-F Yeah, but the comic puts its own spin on each of the things it's pulling from—which is what comics do. The books don't claim that the Sonic games are canon so much as that a version of the games is canon—or that something similar to the games happened, but with differences. If Sega wants all the different versions of Sonic to be visually and ideological unique, then they're all going to have the same problems that Boom has. Like maybe instead of sports tape everywhere and an inflated Knuckles, we can have everybody wearing hats and an obese Tails—fans are going to have a problem with that, and it's not going to feel like Sonic anymore.

I'm not disagreeing with you, @VEDJ-F (can I just call you Ved? I want to call you Ved,) so much as I'm disagreeing with this hypothetical Sega's views regarding brand management. Putting a spin on everything within a franchise while trying to stay as true to it as possible, visually and otherwise, is what adaptations in general and comic books in specific do, and the more they do that, the more successful they can be.

Edit: Another thought is that the more distinct you make the comic, the less it's going to draw in fans of the games, and the less the games in turn are likely going to be able to draw in fans of the comic. One could even argue that this was on some level a problem with the pre-Ian or even pre-reboot book.

Edit 2: Unless you're saying that Sega may want to make the comic canon to the games (which would greatly restrict storytelling), which I believe would kill the comic—or maybe killing the comic cold is exactly what they want. Just get rid of that Archie Sonic altogether. I'd much rather they let Archie Sonic keep doing what he does and even take notes on what Archie does right that Sega doesn't.

[Your Vest Friend]

Ved's fine. As long as it's not Rose. 

I was talking more image than anything. The problem is that SEGA isn't really too versed with the nuances of comic adaptations, nor does Sonic Team really care for different places having a different interpretations of Sonic if it isn't supposed to be part of a different brand (see: The classic localisations they dropped the minute Adventure hit). They're no Hasbro or BBC in terms of flexibility with their properties either (and for the former that's saying something).

I guess a lot of it comes down to clash of ideologies, which is something Archie just can't win when it comes to Sonic the Hedgehog if the source of the conflict turns out to be Sonic Team. 

A little tangential but related to clashes, but SEGA picking up notes on how to write things from the Archie comic was always unlikely at best. Using Iizuka as an example here, you have two problems;

1. He may not even understand what he's reading (at times); he's not a novice at English, but he's not fluent either. Plus, writing structure that seems fine in our language may seem odd to someone whose native tongue is something else (there are some bits in the comic that do go pretty heavy on slang, for example). 

2. There's no guarantee that even if he understood it, he'd like it; Take Sonic the Hedgehog #268 (aka the first part of Champions). To many it's a fantastic display of comic writing, but in it you have Sonic with the SatAM cast, a flashback to classic Sonic with the AoStH cast, lots of characters SEGA don't use any more, a direct adaptation of a game SEGA consider irrelevant to Sonic's image, and certain parts that show contradictory characterisation to what Iizuka personally wrote (yeah, showing Espio with a gambling addiction to the guy who wrote Sonic Rivals 2 is a surefire way to show you're not doing your homework*). It's something often overlooked, but it's important.

If it was due to this move, that would be the ultimate irony for the comic though; a lot of Archie fans wanted Sonic Team to see the comic for themselves to expose them to it, and they got what they asked for...

* I know it was Ian trying to give Espio a character quirk and not him not doing his research, but it amounts to the same thing.

 

[Borvoc]

More interesting points, and you're right, @VEDJ-F, the idea of Sega taking a lesson from Archie is a pipe dream. Even beyond the reasons you state, Japan can seem to be very insular and resistant to external influence. I guess I'm just trying to illustrate that by hypothetically killing the comic, Sega would in some ways be destroying an outlet that is currently being more true to the brand than Sega itself is. Specifically in terms of the recent games, it's Sega that's been throwing things out there with poor humor, context, and design whereas it's been Archie that's been trying to continue to carry the feel of the classic and Adventure games, and to an extent Unleashed.

Mr. Izuka destroying the comic would be ironic, though, for the reasons you mentioned. Since Sega seems to have no problem letting Westerners create stories in Boom and in the recent games that don't carry the same feel as previous Sonic stories and games, it would also be ironic for them to take down the one Western interpretation of the brand that arguably stays the most true to its source, at least in overall storytelling and feel.

[Tyranno]

I really don't think we should be creating conspiracy theories about Sega, and I think that's the last thing people working on the book would want.

[Your Vest Friend]

I'm rationalising how SEGA could turn around and cancel the comic through strong-arming the franchise based on the possible cause of the events going on now being caused by them, even though the whole Boom thing was three years ago now. I'm not trying to make conspiracy theories. 

There's still the Fulop possibility, and it's sad how everyone's dogpiled on Fulop and Penders for that even though it's not confirmed to be the root. 

[JC_Mike]

One small thing to note about Izuka-san. He did bring several of the sonic comics with him when he went to Japan for the Sonic Cafe. IIRC, he brought them to show them off to the Japanese sonic fans, showing off what's going on internationally. One of the things I thought was funny was one of the comics he brought with him was Issue #267 which was mostly a freedom fighter centered story (and also the one that sparked many...debates about Sally).

While I get that some could argue "well he just took the nearest issues he could find, he doesn't understand or care what's in them" It's the fact that is showcasing some of the merchandise that the Americans have created that aren't exported to Japan. So I assume he has somewhat of a grasp on what's going on with the brand internationally, at least as far as the comics are concerned.

Also he did go up to Penders booth at Sonic Revolution when he and Webber crashed the party. Make of that what you will.

 

[BlueSky]

On ‎19‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 0:36 AM, Borvoc said:

I'm still holding out for the comics to return, but since we don't really have any idea on a time frame (or anything else, really), I'm not holding my breath either—at least not in the sense of expecting any news in the immediate future. For those who are getting stressed waiting for an update, I recommend, as a fellow fan, that you find something else to do that you enjoy and check back in less frequently. Most of us here are probably Sonic fans in general (not solely fans of the Archie books), so even if you stop tracking this issue completely, we're all going to get the same news when it drops and makes its way though Sonic-related social media and news and fan sites.

Well, call me a stupid pseudofan or whatever (all who disagree very strongly) but... I for one am leaning more towards the comics than the games since I like the character representations and plot in general more in there than in games. Sega will really need to sell me for the Forces if they want to keep having me as an active fan. I actually got interested in comics first, even when I had some knowledge of the games already. Cancelling the comics as we know them today would very likely lead me getting more and more away from the swing of things considering the franchise. Sega would've "come to the point where" they're "losing their "grip" on me after all. They'll need to "go on till the winter gets" them though.

(Look, I did it again, I just advertised a Norwegian band that US thinks of as a one-hit-wonder... Such a great song indeed...    )

Like they'd care for one Finn's opinions though, they'll get money otherwise so my opinions aren't not that high on their priority list let alone they even knowing about them in the first place...

And I highly recommend that "get something else to think of" part for everyone having problems. If you can't come up with anything, I can recommend Galilei and Lorentz transformation calculations, they're great since they're actually pretty easy to ponder with. I love them,

About using term "fighting" on the context of keeping the FF in the book; first; I'm very happy they stood their ground on this one, good for you guys. Second; call me crazy/oddball for saying this (I can get why some will totally disagree with me here, I'm the odd one here, I know) but for me using that term feels like they were just being more stern with this aspect than in "hey let's have a downplayed Mephiles as a nemesis for Shadow in this Universe story arc" for example. I hear no shouting, just manly men discussing sternly about their opinions: "We want to keep the FF." "That's not what we had in mind, would you rather not?" "We've made our minds, trust us this will work better if we keep them." "Are you certain about this?" "Yes, we're not moving with this one, look all these cool redesigns!" "Very well then, just don't screw this up." "We wont. Probably..." -> This is how it should go were the world perfect...

I should write a fanfic about my "this is how I think it should've happened were it done in a cool way. This is so golden... not really, just some stupid speculation. Kids who read this; don't take this seriously, I was just having a fantasy all right? One can always dream, right? Right?

[Borvoc]

3 hours ago, JC_Mike said:

Also he did go up to Penders booth at Sonic Revolution when he and Webber crashed the party. Make of that what you will.

Wait. Mr. Izuka and Aaron Webber stopped by to see Ken Penders at Sonic Revolution? Was this after all the legal trouble? Huh. It was. That's interesting. Maybe they were just saying hi?

@BlueSky I'm looking forward to your Sega/Archie fanfiction.

 

[JC_Mike]

1 hour ago, Borvoc said:

Wait. Mr. Izuka and Aaron Webber stopped by to see Ken Penders at Sonic Revolution? Was this after all the legal trouble? Huh. It was. That's interesting. Maybe they were just saying hi?

@BlueSky I'm looking forward to your Sega/Archie fanfiction.

 

Yes, it was at last year's Sonic Revolution. I don't know if Aaron visited, but here's the picture of Penders reaction.

[Big Panda]

"Oh shit I'm screwed"

[DabigRG]

26 minutes ago, JC_Mike said:

Yes, it was at last year's Sonic Revolution. I don't know if Aaron visited, but here's the picture of Penders reaction.

 

20 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

"Oh shit I'm screwed"

Yeah, prettymuch! I'm sorry, but that face is priceless.  

EDIT: Okay, 3 things

1.What is Lara-Su wearing?

2.Why does he have Sonic Archive stuff on his table?

3.It's odd to see without his mustache.

 

[horridus]

5 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

Yeah, prettymuch! I'm sorry, but that face is priceless.  

EDIT: Okay, 3 things

1.What is Lara-Su wearing?

2.Why does he have Sonic Archive stuff on his table?

3.It's odd to see without his mustache.

 

1. A rather revealing bikini that is evidently part of an utterly crucial scene in the book and so totally justified as being a part of the major unveiling of her character. He's touted it as practical sportswear despite it being damnningly clear that the friggin' thing is purely designed for titilation. In some circles it is known as 'the Sukini'. 

2. Sonic stuff sells, and he has a greatly diminished sense of irony.

3. Yes. Yes it is. 

[Big Panda]

They're Archives volumes that contain the stuff he wrote, so he kinda has the right to.