Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Your Vest Friend]

You're thinking of Sonic #243, which was like 5 years ago now.

He's referring to Archie #20 aka the one that was solicited to have a regular story but then changed to the first in a three-part "event". 

[Multikaris]

Who bets that they'll reveal the truth at Comic-Con? 

[Meta77]

Doubt it. But I don't doubt a fan  asking

[Borvoc]

13 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

You're thinking of Sonic #243, which was like 5 years ago now.

He's referring to Archie #20 aka the one that was solicited to have a regular story but then changed to the first in a three-part "event". 

Right. Thanks. I didn't realize that Archie #20 had ever been teased as anything but death drama. Very interesting. I wonder if All New! (All Different?) Archie is already feeling a sag and desperately hoping that short-term train car wreck drama will provide a longer term increase in sales. I'm certain I'm reading too much into this, but I'm biassed against stupid drama stuff. The entertainment industry at large relies too much on killing off characters for emotional appeal instead of just telling good stories. They must really think we're attention deficit or calloused if they think that only death can hold our interest.

*Gets off soapbox*

11 minutes ago, Miru the Living Planet said:

Who bets that they'll reveal the truth at Comic-Con? 

It'd be nice, but I doubt it. I think the current delays are something you resolve as quietly and quickly as possible rather than revealing the solution from a podium. You don't wait 'til Mothers' Day to tell your mom that you're finally going to do your chores; you just do them and then get her something special when the day comes. Then again, you never know what the circumstances are going to be or how things are all going to work out.

[Red Hot Jack]

I have the opportunity to buy some printed comics this time, what issues should I choose? I was thinking some among 195, 225, 230, 250 or one during arcs like Waves of Change, Treasure Team Tango, Shadow Fall or Eggman's Dozen. I'm so undecided, I can only pick 2 or 3 issues max.

[Big Panda]

I'd definately say the two landmarks you listed, especially 225, those two gatefold covers are the best.

[CowabungaCarl555]

Seconding the love for 225, that issue is why I am (was?) collecting this series. 250 is probably the better option, but technically 230 continues on from 225 so if you spring for three and want to listen to me, make it two thirty-three.

[Zaysho]

225 and 230 are great issues (they bookend the "Genesis" storyline and can more or less be read without that due to the soft reset), especially the latter for its conclusion.

If you ignore the whole "Then we ran into legal problems and that killed our original plans."

[IDreamcasterI]

I was at Toys R Us earlier today and I noticed all the racks that had Sonic comics on them have been replaced with other magazines/comics, so even if it does come back I doubt that they'll bother stocking it again.

[goku262002]

They just need spots to fill for the time being, its not like they can reserve that spot for just sonic forever.

[Scritch the Cat]

On 5/25/2017 at 9:54 AM, Miru the Living Planet said:

Who bets that they'll reveal the truth at Comic-Con? 

 

On 5/25/2017 at 10:00 AM, Meta77 said:

Doubt it. But I don't doubt a fan  asking

 

On 5/25/2017 at 10:19 AM, Borvoc said:

It'd be nice, but I doubt it. I think the current delays are something you resolve as quietly and quickly as possible rather than revealing the solution from a podium. You don't wait 'til Mothers' Day to tell your mom that you're finally going to do your chores; you just do them and then get her something special when the day comes. Then again, you never know what the circumstances are going to be or how things are all going to work out.

If the truth is, Sonic is not cancelled, they might.  If Sonic is cancelled, I doubt any of them want to walk into that fist.

I've been thinking a bit about this, and I have to wonder: What if this franchise is headed for a reboot?  I specifically said "franchise" because I don't just mean Arche Sonic; what if the entire Sonic brand is heading for a sort of "concept unification"?  Reading about the infamous kerfuffle with Ken Penders, and how SEGA used the aftermath of that to hand down a lot of mandates to Archie, made me consider that possibility.  A lot of those mandates, such as "No more saying they're set on Mobius", "No killing Sonic or sending him MIA", and "No game-origin characters have relatives or romantic feelings unless we say so first in the games", boil down to bringing the Archie series more in line with the game canon, so audiences can go more easily from one to another--and what if they later decided they wanted to take that concept even further?

Sonic has long been infamous for the rifts between various segments of its fandom, formed as an inevitable result of how big the series was.  They're a big enough issue when they're formed over various divisive elements of the games--for example, less characters Vs more characters, less plot vs more plot, more serious vs more comedic, more platforming vs more speed, boost vs no boost--and with so many different non-game media gunking things up even more, SEGA might see it as in their interest to reign it in with some compromise.  Right now, we have a Sonic TV series wherein Eggman is an ineffectual joke and he's the only human, coexisting with an upcoming game wherein he's the biggest threat he's been in years, and wherein other humans exist (implied, even if not shown).  That's even before noting many of the non-human supporting characters are different between the two; for example, Rouge doesn't exist in Sonic Boom and Fastidious Beaver doesn't exist in the main games.  Then there's the (last we heard) still ongoing Archie series where DIC characters have stuck around, despite not being in any game since Sonic Spinball.  So there's three separate Sonic canons for three separate Sonic fanbases, different enough to make crossover between those fanbases problematic.  Someone coming into Sonic Forces from Sonic Boom might be put off my how menacing SF Eggman is, while people coming into it from Archie might reason that having a version of Robotnik that finally rules most of the world again would be the perfect time to bring Princess Sally et al into the games, and these people could be put off if she's not.

So possibly, what's on the horizon is an event when they shut down what's been going on with Sonic plots up until now, and relaunch the brand with all three canons merged into one with elements from each.  I don't know that this will happen, of course, and it might very well make a lot of people mad, but maybe SEGA feels that's an acceptable cost if it means bringing people together as one consumer base that hadn't been before.  The rationale might go something like, "Sorry Archie Sonic is cancelled, Sally Acorn fans, but you can see more of her when we put her in the games", or "Sorry Sonic Boom is cancelled, Sticks fans, but you can see more of her when we put her in the games."  Sticks already has become a canon-immigrant to both the Olympics games and the Archie series, so that's not infeasible.

[Sega DogTagz]

What makes for a good videogame plot doesn't necessarily make for a strong long term comic and whats good for those two certainly can't always be applied to a Saturday morning cartoon show.

I would severely doubt the Sonic franchise would look toward some universal realignment such as what your suggesting. Laying ground rules across all mediums is one thing, but to effectively neuter the creatives of other branches (other branches that have proved more capable in the storytelling department mind you) is a wasted and fruitless endeavor.

[Scritch the Cat]

You're probably right, when regarding only plots, but other stuff is going on too.  The settings, the characters, and to some extent, the personalities and capabilities the characters have can all cause problems when they deviate between media; the classic example in this series being the "Robotnik Vs Eggman" bit. (Note: Yes; as of the Dreamcast era, both names are canon, but they weren't before that.)  That was caused by SEGA of America substantially altering the backstory of Sonic, and then all of the cartoons made in America took after that.  A lot of people took it as being the story of Sonic so long as video games weren't a very narrative medium, causing a lot of conflict when they eventually became one and Sonic Adventure came out with a stronger narrative focus.  Apparently, SEGA actually pulled the plug on Sonic Underground so as not to conflict with their new definitive take on the brand, but Archie has remained a time capsule from the SoA Sonic Bible era, thus including characters from both Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic the Hedgehog Saturday Morning. 

While that's neat for people who remember those cartoons, by modern sensibilities it stretches the definition of "video game-based comic" pretty far.  Fans of the game series obviously expect more dedication to story when they pick up a book, but being hit with so many characters the games never introduced to them can be rather alienating.  For example, they might be fine with reading a story about a buffoon having misadventures doing something he doesn't understand, but they might wish it was Big the Cat rather than Scratch and Grounder.  They might want Sonic to have romantic feelings, but for Amy rather than for Sally. (This one has worked both ways, of course.)

Also, there's a possibility that fans of the comics could desire the games be more like them, and maybe SEGA would even be alright with obliging that desire to an extent, but I think they'd be taking care to ensure that all parties are cool with it first, lest they risk another lawsuit like the one they got from Ken Penders.  That could be another reason why they'd trim the canons down into what they could get the rights to, and then play up those things.

[Flyinpenguin117]

If SEGA's planning on reigning in the franchise, its not gonna be a unification of all its aspects. Its gonna be a total scorched-earth of everything not in the current games. We're already seeing the games being trimmed down. Plots have been thinner and thinner. Sonic's the only playable character, with Tails and Eggman being the only characters with story presence. Boom's being swept under the rug. 2 of its 3 games have been commercial and critical bombs, with the third having a mediocre reception at best. The comics were canned after a year. The show is the only good thing to come out of it, but its remained in a terrible time slot and probably isn't bringing in anyone who wasn't already a Sonic fan. The comics have had their creative freedom clamped down since the reboot. SEGA wants nothing to do with any comic characters. And now the comics are on a long-term hiatus.

SEGA hasn't particularly cared for anything besides Sonic Team's games, so I doubt they'd have any reservations about scuttling the comics with everything else if they felt it would protect the brand's interests.

[Scritch the Cat]

Yes, if...but all of that that depends on how much better they think the core games are doing than other things.  The policy of only playing as Sonic was born of the last few games where other characters were playable being rushed, unfinished garbage--but Sonic Mania could change that.  Depending on how well a game with additional characters does vs one with just Modern Sonic the Hedgehog, Classic Sonic the Hedgehog, and OC the Animal, SEGA could take a chance on that.  I also think that the SEGA-Sonic supporting cast is substantially safer than the Archie-exclusives.  After all, they're playable in Sonic Runners; as underwhelming as that game may be, and they at least appear everywhere else.

[Sega DogTagz]

2 hours ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

SEGA hasn't particularly cared for anything besides Sonic Team's games, so I doubt they'd have any reservations about scuttling the comics with everything else if they felt it would protect the brand's interests.

Well if they don't care then they should. One of the only things this franchise has left is the synergistic relationship that exists between having your mascot co-exist in so many parallels. Fans of the comics are encouraged and more motivated to draw art, buy the video games, scoop up merch and everything in between. The same is true for fans of the games and fans of the TV show. Despite their differences, it doesn't take a genus to see how they feed into each other.

If SEGA were to start burning those bridges, then you'd be essentially flushing all that free publicity down the drain. Looking at Sega's not-so-deft hand at advertising their products, that synergy in the Sonic franchise would be a terrible thing to waste. They should have every reservation about shutting down the comics because its easily the biggest free advertisement engine they have, considering Boom's lousy channel slot limiting its mass appeal.

[Scritch the Cat]

I'm still wondering what was going through their heads when they said they were officially retiring Big the Cat from the series.  That didn't last very long, but even if they were going to go there, why even declare they were doing it?  Considering they've never been forced to go fishing again, I'm pretty sure even Big's most passionate haters wouldn't decide to give the company their money as thanks for officially retiring him.  On the other hand, the sorts of fans who love Sonic's supporting cast might very well stop supporting them if they see the company as willing to dispense with them.

[Dejimon11]

On May 24, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Ernest-Panda said:

I still don't understand how Sonic being on hiatus could cause it so much damage, and yet the Archie Horror titles are able to come back from God knows how many hiatuses and sell out prompting second printings every single time.

I know I'm reply to a week old comment but I thought that the horror line wasn't doing that well since it came out since the audience was also losing interest. On that note it seems like Sonic isn't the only one that's been on Archie's hiatus list there are other comics that haven't been cancelled 

Edit: Here's a better pic 

 

[Tylinos]

35 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

I know I'm reply to a week old comment but I thought that the horror line wasn't doing that well since it came out since the audience was also losing interest. On that note it seems like Sonic isn't the only one that's been on Archie's hiatus list there are other comics that haven't been cancelled 

Edit: Here's a better pic 

 

Not only that, but Jughead, one of their big main series, has just been removed from the Archie Store's subscriptions page after being missing from solicits for a few months.

[Your Vest Friend]

Wait, Jughead was the series Ian was supposed to be writing for.

That man never gets a break. 

Edit: Although in this case apparently someone was at the weekend event and met Yardley, who said that Archie didn't instigate the Sonic stuff going on. 

[Dejimon11]

12 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Wait, Jughead was the series Ian was supposed to be writing for.

That man never gets a break. 

Edit: Although in this case apparently someone was at the weekend event and met Yardley, who said that Archie didn't instigate the Sonic stuff going on. 

You wanna elaborate on that? 

[RictalRose0]

22 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Also, there's a possibility that fans of the comics could desire the games be more like them, and maybe SEGA would even be alright with obliging that desire to an extent, but I think they'd be taking care to ensure that all parties are cool with it first, lest they risk another lawsuit like the one they got from Ken Penders.  That could be another reason why they'd trim the canons down into what they could get the rights to, and then play up those things.

Why would SEGA pander to comic fans? They are not a particulary big audience. Boom on all it's infamy, is still better know and the TV show is more watched and liked that the comic could ever possibly get. The comic sells what, 5 thousands copies an issue? The show back in season 1 got like an average of one million watchers per episode. And even now on season 2 trapped on a low rated channel like Boomerang it's still more widely know that the comics. Now if only Sega did something to get it out of Boomerang. They would reach a much bigger audience. But Sega doesn't care about the Boom TV show even with the positive feedback it got, what makes anyone think they would really care about keeping something as niche as the comics?

[Borvoc]

On 5/28/2017 at 1:06 AM, IDreamcasterI said:

I was at Toys R Us earlier today and I noticed all the racks that had Sonic comics on them have been replaced with other magazines/comics, so even if it does come back I doubt that they'll bother stocking it again.

Eh. We B Toys will stock whatever sells. If the Sonic book comes back and sells well, it'll get is spot right back. To assume that this spells doom would be like saying that since you ate Chinese while the pizza parlor was closed for maintenance, that means that you'll never buy pizza again.

On 5/29/2017 at 1:42 AM, Sega DogTagz said:

What makes for a good videogame plot doesn't necessarily make for a strong long term comic and whats good for those two certainly can't always be applied to a Saturday morning cartoon show.

I would severely doubt the Sonic franchise would look toward some universal realignment such as what your suggesting. Laying ground rules across all mediums is one thing, but to effectively neuter the creatives of other branches (other branches that have proved more capable in the storytelling department mind you) is a wasted and fruitless endeavor.

Yeah. Nickelodeon apparently tried to run their TMNT New Animated Adventures tie-in comics (which Ian has written for) by IDW pretty tightly within the continuity of the currently-running show until they realized that this heavily limited the writers' creativity and decreased sales. They eventually had to reboot the comics as TMNT Amazing Adventures, where they loosened restrictions, keeping the feel of the show but allowing it to do its own thing, which improved the book and, assumingly, increased sales. (It hasn't been rebooted again yet, though the reboot slated for the associated TV show after the current season will likely change this.)

If Sega were to clamp down too hard, they'd just end up strangling everything—including the games themselves.

[Multikaris]

10 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

Why would SEGA pander to comic fans? They are not a particulary big audience. Boom on all it's infamy, is still better know and the TV show is more watched and liked that the comic could ever possibly get. The comic sells what, 5 thousands copies an issue? The show back in season 1 got like an average of one million watchers per episode. And even now on season 2 trapped on a low rated channel like Boomerang it's still more widely know that the comics. Now if only Sega did something to get it out of Boomerang. They would reach a much bigger audience. But Sega doesn't care about the Boom TV show even with the positive feedback it got, what makes anyone think they would really care about keeping something as niche as the comics?

The comic has lasted much, much longer and doesn't have the infamy of a terrible game. They've also already seemed to try to pander to comic fans once.

 

 

And by the way, Sticks is an exception because she was created by Sonic Team. Not even Bean, Ray, or Lumina can attest to that. If Izuka can be trusted about his opinions on Mania, don't expect to get anything other than references to them ever again. 

 

And I've always been thinking the canning of the Archie comic and condemning Boom to a slow and painful death are part of a project to torch the conflicting adaptations and run. 

[Shadowlax]

44 minutes ago, Miru the Living Planet said:

 

 

And by the way, Sticks is an exception because she was created by Sonic Team. Not even Bean, Ray, or Lumina can attest to that. If Izuka can be trusted about his opinions on Mania, don't expect to get anything other than references to them ever again. 

what did he say about mania?