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S0NIC-Keyblade 007

Would Eggman really be happy if Sonic was taken out of the picture?

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This has been on my mind for quite some time now. Eggman claims that he would love to take Sonic out of the picture so he can build evil empire, Eggmanland, but I don't belive that Eggman would really be happy with his long time rival gone and no one left to challenge him. I believe the same can go for Sonic too. I think Sonic would be bored out of his mind if Eggman wasn't there to cause trouble. I remember one scene from Sonic Cronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, Amy said something along the lines of "Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to wake up to Eggman causing a ruckus?" and Sonic replied "I'd get pretty bored to be honest". I can also make a reference from the comics and Sonic X (I know they are not canon to the Sonic games, but I still wanted to mention them). In Sonic Comic #200 when Sonic defeated Eggman and pretty much went insane, Sonic felt a bit of disappointment and regret that Eggman was pretty much done for good (well for that momment anyway). And in Sonic X episode 53 when Sonic fell to earth from space, Eggman was the one person to find him on the ground in critical condition and surprizingly healed him back to health. It seems to me that Eggman and Sonic actually care about eachother despite how much they fight in the hopes of reaching their own individual goals, they seem to enjoy competing against each other and improving their individual skills each time their paths cross. So what do you guys think about this? Do you believe that either one of them would really be happy if they were to get their rival out of the way? Or would they really be depressed now that no one is left to challenge them?

Edited by S0NIC Toadstool

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Well Eggman does have some sort of respect for Sonic. Like in SA2 when he launches Sonic into space with the exploding capsule and thinks he has killed him. He seemed so achieved but at the same time sad (looking slowly down to the side and saying 'Farewell, my worth adversary."

Edited by LunarEdge

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I think he wouldn't. If he did kill Sonic then he'd have no one to fight and would probably grow very bored.

As for Sonic, it's pretty much been confirmed that Sonic does care about Eggman.

Edited by Edge

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When it comes to the games version of Eggman, I think that he'd be momentarily upset but in all likelihood would soon delight in the task of creating and spreading his empire with less resistance. Though I suppose he'd probably start thinking that life is less interesting without that meddling hedgehog.

When it comes to the Sonic X version of Eggman, well, if episode 52 was anything to go by, the guy would be flat-out bored. He was bothered by Sonic's absence so much in that episode that he resorted to causing mischief on purpose in a vain effort to draw Sonic to him and even when he involuntarily succeeded, he had a massive grin on his face. So a good guess is that if Sonic vanished permanently, Eggman's fun would be far less.

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If it was Eggman getting rid of Sonic, he'd momentarily rejoice, then have a BSOD then proceed to take over while still feeling depressed...

now, if Sonic defeated Eggman permanently.... He'd sure be happy for a while, but eventually grow bored... but I'm sure he would find SOMETHING to do. XD

So...... yeah. They'd be bored out of their minds if the other was gone.

Edited by Baking Blue Potatoe

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Let's find out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0VppuyWGMk

No, then Ulala foils his plans.

The thing about this rivalry that's always kind of bugged me is that Sega is trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want to maintain this comical rivalry between the two of them, but they also want to have the stories involve serious business that puts many people in danger. This reminds me of how in order to unlock certain characters in Advance Wars you have a post credits sort of "friendlies" battle with them, but for all intents and purposes, the two armies seem to be using live rounds and people are losing their lives in this lighthearted contest.

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Given all the time and effort Eggman spends creating horrible methods of death for Spiky, it'd be a bit hypocritical of him to mope about afterwards.

yet none of the machines are particularly hedgehog proofed

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Archie Eggman would be overjoyed if Sonic was taken out of the picture. He even went insane at one point because he was sick of Sonic always stoping his plains.

Archie Sonic might feel bad about stoping Eggman, but after all the trouble that Eggman has put him though a part of him would also be glad that Eggman's gone for good.

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Well that depends.

Game Eggman/Robotnik has become so capricious that it's likely from one game to the next he'll flip from cursing Sonic's name with real malice and hate to allying with the blue guy and wanting to give him 'stachey kisses.

Now I know alot of people like the whole "comedic villain" archetype, but I like Eggman as your regular badguy villainly villain, So I'm gonna go with that.

Game Eggman from my opinion would be ecstatic that he'd finally defeated his foe, in time I think that feeling would wane slightly, but I don't think it would ever be remorse or even true feelings, more that he'd miss the thrill of killing Sonic since he can't do it anymore.....kinda like chasing a climax only to have everything after it seem dull in comparison.

But, and this is a huge but, that is all assuming none of the other characters of the Sonic world take action and that is highly unlikely.

The idea of Sonic's death is actually something that has played about in the more out there depths of my mind, not a permanant thing but have him appear dead for a bit only to re-emerge later. Sure they would NEVER do it in the games (they barely did it for a few cutscenes in '06 and that turned out bad) but I've always thought they would've tried it out in the comics.

In my mind if Sonic were to die at Eggmans hands Tails would become utterly devoted to seeing Eggman brought down. He'd drop his happy attitude and become focused on his building of machines, maybe even rivalling Eggman, and use them to counter Eggy's own forces. I see Tails rallying the other characters, pretty much I see alot of story potential and even chracter depth being explored with a "Sonic's death" scenario - but what I don't see is Sonic dying = Eggman automatically wins.

G.U.N for one would have to step up and do something to protect the people once Sonic is gone and not doing all the work.

Now Sonic on the other hand. Well Sonic I see as not really caring much either. If he were to kill Eggman I think he'd crack a few jokes like "What will I do now?" and stuff like that but in the end he's taken out an evil guy responsible for the lives of many, terrorism, capture and imprisonment of his friends, destruction of the planet and mass production of pollution, and the guy that's been trying to kill him since forever.....yeah I'm pretty sure he wouldn't feel too much if any for the guy.

That being said I do think Sonic would miss Eggman for the pure fact of having something fun and wreckless to throw himself at, but I'm sure Sonic could get his adrenaline thrills some other way and I'm sure he'd find something to keep his interest.

So all in all I don't believe either character would feel much, and anything they do feel is hardly altruistic because the "loss" they feel is really only selfish.

I won't even bother with comic or tv Sonic as this is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Given all the time and effort Eggman spends creating horrible methods of death for Spiky, it'd be a bit hypocritical of him to mope about afterwards.

Exactly. This is what I say to fans of the "good guy" Eggman.

I'm a BIG fan of consistancy in games and as soon as you have Eggman one day trying to kill Sonic and the next helping him or even mourning his death, then continuity gets thrown out the window.

It's the reason I hate the Archie comics at the moment. Here's Robotnik; a guy who has made almost every life on Mobius suffer some way or another, an evil evil dictator who wants to take the free will from every other living being on the planet by turning them into his submissive slaves, a guy who has personally destroyed Sonic's family - and Sonic defeats him and feels bad for the guy!? <_<

He should've beat the snot outta him until the last moustache twitches cease, but I know this is a kid friendly comic so it wouldn't happen, but they could've banished him into some hellish zone which has no (known) return instead of treating him like one of the freedom fighters venerated elderly parents and taking care of him - or better still not had Eggman in that position in the first place!

The guy has an IQ of 300 for f-sake!

Surely he'd have some if not many, many fallbacks in case his plans went wrong. A guy this smart should have taken every approach into considration and have set up back up plans and escape plans to deal with it when the time came.

Eh, Eggman rants over.

I still would like to see what would happen in either circumstance (no Sonic or no Eggman) though. Sonic Chronicles ending looked like it was going to show us what Eggman would do with a temporarily absent Sonic...that's close to dead....although that game sucked EPIC balls, but it doesn't seem like we will see what they were trying to do with that ending anyway.

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I'm sure Eggman has grown to see Sonic as more of a rival than an enemy. I think he doesn't want to KILL Sonic, at least subconsciously, but is willing to do so to carry out his plans.

At the same time, I know Sonic would never want to kill Eggman. Not only does he say Blaze's threats in Rush are harsh, but as he says, he's a guy who likes adventure, so why would he want to take out his biggest source of them?

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We've seen what would happen in the short-term if Eggman killed Sonic... at least once, possibly as many as three times. On each occasion he pretty much just continued with his plans as he normally might, without any kind of "I KILLED THE WABBIT" moment. In SA2, after saluting his rival, he immediately turns his attention to trying to get Tails and Amy to give him their Chaos Emerald. In Unleashed (if that counts, since I'm not sure whether Eggman really expected Sonic's fall from orbit to kill him), he seems more troubled by his careless disposal of the Emeralds than he does by Sonic's apparent death. I honestly can't remember what reaction, if any, Eggman has toward Sonic's death in '06, so maybe that's a total 180. In the short term, though, the idea of Sonic dying doesn't seem to trouble Ivo too much.

Without a short-term goal to keep his mind off of it, though, I agree that it'd probably bother Eggman a lot to not have Sonic around. Sure, he tries to kill Sonic all the time, but considering his childishness he probably doesn't consider the consequences of his actions all that much. Besides, if Sonic died, his friends would probably just become a lot more serious and determined: more dangerous than before, probably, and not nearly as much fun to mess with. Eggy would miss the wisecracks.

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one decent robut in an army of useless machines dismantled by a goddamn hedgehog

eggman is probably a masochist

In fairness, Eggman's badniks probably aren't SUPPOSED to be hedgehog-proof because 99.999% of the time their job is to oppress hapless 1-foot-tall forest animals (or ineffectual humans in Soleanna, on occasion). These things they do remarkably well. Eggman wading into combat HIMSELF on a boss machine is the standard response to realizing Sonic's in an area wrecking shit up.

That doesn't work either, but it's certainly designed with killin' in mind.

I'm sure Eggman has grown to see Sonic as more of a rival than an enemy. I think he doesn't want to KILL Sonic, at least subconsciously, but is willing to do so to carry out his plans.

I had an idea that Robotnik would actually prefer to capture Sonic rather than fill him full of bullet-holes. Over the years we've been told that Robotnik's grown to "respect" Sonic; and, not being a fan of the whole friendly villain cliche, I interpret that as the mad scientist respecting Sonic insofar as the hedgehog is a person of mass destruction and a marvel of Mobian biomechanics. Precisely for this reason my idea for the start of Sonic Chronicles 2 was that Ivo shoots down the Cyclone and captures Sonic, but throws him in a lab/jail rather than just capping him in the head. After all, if he understands Sonic better, just think of the upgrades he can build into Metal Sonic!

At the same time, I know Sonic would never want to kill Eggman. Not only does he say Blaze's threats in Rush are harsh, but as he says, he's a guy who likes adventure, so why would he want to take out his biggest source of them?

'Cos he robotizes his friends in walking steel crypts, then burns their forests, levels their hills, drains their rivers, and poisons their seas?

Jolly as he may be, Dr. Ivo Robotnik is not a very nice man.

Edited by Frozen Nitrogen

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First off, I don't like calling Eggman Sonic's rival. Sonic has too many rivals and not enough enemies, but thats for a whole different topic.

Eggman enjoys the challenge of battling Sonic, he doesn't see Sonic as a rival for him to have competition with, rather as a challenge for him to overcome. If he finally defeated Sonic he would probably feel happy that he made it past this challenge and a little unhappy that the challenge is over, but he will still continue his plans, because he knows there are other challenges for him to face in the form of Shadow, G.U.N., Sonic's friends, and the occasional rebellious creations.

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When I think of Sonic defeating Eggman or vise-versa, the cliche that comes to mind is about enjoying the journey as well as the destination. They enjoy the journey of trying to stop each other while it lasts, but if it were to end, they would ultimately be happy they reached their destination.

This applies more to Sonic than Eggman, but I think his motivation for fighting is selfish and selfless. On one hand, he likes a challenge and he likes adventure. The normal, human selfish side of him takes pleasure in this aspect of it. And quite honestly, I don't think he hates Eggman enough to actually want him dead. On the other hand, Sonic genuinely cares about his friends - and the world, for that matter - and so if it came down to need, he would kill Eggman for that purpose.

However, I think we have enough evidence to show that it is worth it to Eggman to kill Sonic, even if he does wind up bored after that. His main goal is not to spend the rest of his life playing win-lose games with Sonic, but to actually build the Eggman empire. That is his primary goal, and despite how he respects Sonic, I wouldn't put it beyond him to try yet again to kill him.

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I really believe that Eggman would be happy, but not for long. Eggman has his ultimate dream of his empire, which sometimes he gets very close to achieving, when Sonic comes and ruins it all. If Sonic was defeated once and for all, Eggman really wouldn't have much else to do after he has taken control of every living creature to do his bidding. Sonic will not bow down and be controlled, which give Eggman the fuel he needs to try to destroy him.

How many times, has Eggman come "close" or in Sonic X and in the comics actually "killing Sonic" only to have the hedgehog come back in a stronger format? There would be much more purpose to Eggman's existence if Sonic was out of the picture. I've always seen the whole Sonic vs. Eggman as:

Eggman has the 7 Chaos Emeralds.

Sonic comes in and takes them.

Eggman gets emeralds away from Sonic.

Sonic battles Eggman and gets some if not all back.

Sonic somehow loses all or some of the Emeralds.

Eggman plots to find Emeralds and takes the ones Sonic has found.

Eggman has all the Emeralds AGAIN.

Eggman uses them in a device or monster to accomplish world domination.

Eggman finds out that his Monster or device is too strong for even him to handle.

SO Eggman somehow aligns with Sonic for the ultimate battle to bring harmony back again. (Even Eggman doesn't want to totally DESTROY the planet; he just wants to dominate it...)

All is at peace.

Eggman gets into his contraption promising Sonic that he will return to finish their "battle"

It all starts OVER again.

This time...Sonic loses the Emeralds.....

So yeah, Eggman wouldn't have much of a job if Sonic was out of the picture. Sonic completes Eggman.

... he'd wind up with SHADOW as his "pet?":blink:

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This is something I've also wondered about as well. I feel it's sorta safe to say the relationship between the two has changed over the years and the they'd have reaction would sorta depend on what version of the characters we're looking at. If we're going by the TV series like Adventure of Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog Sat AM, and Sonic Underground, then I'm sure Robotnik would rejoice at the death Sonic and Sonic would be relieved that the threat is gone and though he'd sorta miss challenge Robotnik posed he'd have other things to turn his attention to.

Now going by the most recent Sonic TV show Sonic X we get a whole different relationship. Several times in that series we had Sonic being sad over the loss of old Eggie and visa versa. In episode 52 I think it was, Eggman went out in his hovercraft shouting challenges over a megaphone. He knew Sonic wasn't there, yet he still did it. He seemed almost lost without Sonic there to challenge him, and though he'd likely get over it eventually it still through him off for a bit. Then there's the part in the space season where Eggman disguises his ship as the Blue Typhoon and takes a hit just so Sonic could escape the planet. Sure we could argue he did this because he wants to be the one to take out Sonic and not some other alien but I feel it's more than that. I tend to look at it like this, looking at the two of them, who do you think will die first? Here we have a 15 yr old who's full of life and has many years still ahead of him. On the other hand, Eggman is obviously older (just how much is anyone's guess) and likely will pass before Sonic does. I feel Eggman's aware of this and knows in all likelihood he'll be the one that goes first. Still that's no reason to simply roll over and give up. No if there's one thing the two of them share it's drive to keep going and have fun along the way. So Eggman is striving to make his mark in the world, if he wins his Eggmanland will become a reality and will forever be a reminder of the things he achieved. If he loses, oh well, he still made a mark in the life of the world's greatest hero and no matter what there's no way Sonic will ever forget him.

Turning to the games now I've noticed Sonic X's version of Eggman seems to be more like where the games are going with the relationship. In Unleashed Eggman even admits to his little Robot sidekick that he wanted Sonic to be around for some challenge, a concept the Robot could not understand in the slightest. Yet if we go back in time to SA2 we see Eggmans more like the SAT AM Robotnik and doesn't really seem to mind that Sonic's gone.

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'Cos he robotizes his friends in walking steel crypts, then burns their forests, levels their hills, drains their rivers, and poisons their seas?

Jolly as he may be, Dr. Ivo Robotnik is not a very nice man.

I'm not exactly confident that those small animals are Sonic's friends so much as bystanders. There are a lot of them and Sonic doesn't really seem aquainted with them. Even in the Rush games where Eggman resorted to using animals AND there's dialogue in the story, Sonic doesn't even bring up the fact that his nemesis has gone back to harvesting animals as a power source/processor/whatever and, again, seems awfully forgiving towards him. I guess Sonic's relationship with the animals doesn't exactly excuse Robotnik, but I don't really remember any hill leveling, river draining and sea poisoning. I guess Eggman's inents and personality were much vaguer in the original games, but all the same, he seems a lot less willing to nuke cities and level forests.

not being a fan of the whole friendly villain cliche

Since when are "friendly villains" a cliche? The only "friendly villains" I've ever seen are no more than comic relief. If you mean "villains-turned-rivals" then I might see where you're coming from, but I think it's a better alternative than the overplayed "puppy-kicking-douchebag-tries-to-take-over-the-world-without-any-clear-background-or-ulterior-motive" cliche.

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