Game Overthinker: Sawnic In CRISIS

[Twilight Spines]

I like watching this guys stuff and he may have some good points here (may as i really can't be sure as i am dead tired)

But apart from that too Lazy and Tired to post my opinions on this right now. Maybe tomorrow.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Twilight Spines

[Urtheart]

The sooner Stadium fans realise that they make up probably less than 10% of the sales of any Stadium game, the sooner they will realise why no game will ever be aimed at them again

Just replace Stadium with a different word and you are good to go.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I was kinda hoping he wouldn't fall into the same migratory path as a lot of the media...and he did, sort of. I don't know, but when I thought of him as the Overthinker, I thought he would look a hell of a lot more into the series than how he did, making a more seperate standing of his own than one of the media.

At least he doesn't consider SA1 as shit compared to other outlets, which is good because they're drinking a little too much Haterade. And he thinks the series is one that should be saved, although since he's going to offer his ideas on how to fix the series (like we haven't heard that before), I can only wonder what he's going to say in regards to it. And I can only hope he doesn't go in the obvious direction, which I undoubtedly think he will.

Guess will find in less than a month.

EDIT: Also, what Urth said. It's in my siggie too.

Edited April 1, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Jay T.]

In all honesty, I was hoping this dude wasn't going this far to rant about our favorite blue blur, but he did. It's just that the Overthinker is one of the VERY few people online who puts up very valid points about games on YouTube, while also being humorous and original with his jokes.

One point he did bring up that was valid that Sonic was already in a total mess, story. He has so many different storylines from comics, manga, anime, and cartoons which can lead to SOME confusion with the fans, but they don't really deal with the game. However, fans still branch out due to the differences.

He did bring up a point that Sonic working in 3D would be tougher, since he's a speedy character. Not only that, but most of the stages Sonic and friends go through is pretty much a track, so to say and not full on exploration all the time. It depends on what they're aiming for here. Also, the fact that Sonic does have to rely on his Boost or the Zippers for true speed is kind of disappointing since he never really needed them, but he probably does now.

The only two things I'll disagree with him so far is:

1.) AoStH doesn't really suck. It's really different and wacky, but it's pretty much aimed at a really young audience. You got to give it props though for being more "classic" than the others. I mean, for one, the Casino Night Zone, Chemical Plant Zone, and Hill Top Zone do make an appearance, and the Chaos Emeralds do appear, even though they're different. Sadly, no rings. I hate to admit it though, but watching the series again is kind of tough for me, mainly because of certain things going around if you know what I mean.

2.) Shadow the Hedgehog isn't the worse, but the approach is. In all honesty, every character has to have some kind of counterpart. Mario has Cosmic Mario, Shadow Mario (Bowser Jr.), Metal Mario (not really, but you get it), and even Wario. Spyro the Dragon even has Dark Spyro in the newer series. Crash Bandicoot has Fake Crash, Evil Crash, and Carbon Crash. Sonic pretty much has Metal and Mecha. That's the way I see it at least. The problem with Shadow though was his game, which kind of screwed up a few things and made Shadow a bit too dark, in a way. Now some people just refer to him as the "emo hedgehog," but to be Sonic's counterpart, it make sense his personality is like that...to me at least.

His storyline with the Black Arms was pretty much a hit and miss for me, but it does fill in most of the gaps, but not all. One other problem is that Shadow keeps getting the look that he's overpowered, which is true since he has a wide range of Chaos Emerald abilities, and the rings on his gloves hold back his true potential, making it look like he's stronger than Sonic, and he possibly is.

Well, that's the way I see it. At least the Overthinker isn't acting too purisitic about the series and isn't really bashing on the fans, also he ain't going way off and what not. So, kudos to him there. I'll wait for the second part. That's pretty much going to make it or break it for me.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Jay Tanoshi

[Djawed]

This guy is really not knowing what he's talking about

[Djawed]

But i do agree at the end aBOut after sonic adventure 1

Edited April 1, 2009 by Jaouad

[HungryJack]

At least he admitted he was a Mario fan at the start. And he hated SA2 just because of Shadow? So forget the gameplay, just because Shadow is in it, its bad? That's a pretty lame reason if you ask me.

Edited April 1, 2009 by HungryJack

[Phos]

He's overemphasizing the importance of speed a bit here, but that's no surprise.

2.) Shadow the Hedgehog isn't the worse, but the approach is. In all honesty, every character has to have some kind of counterpart. Mario has Cosmic Mario, Shadow Mario (Bowser Jr.), Metal Mario (not really, but you get it), and even Wario. Spyro the Dragon even has Dark Spyro in the newer series. Crash Bandicoot has Fake Crash, Evil Crash, and Carbon Crash. Sonic pretty much has Metal and Mecha. That's the way I see it at least. The problem with Shadow though was his game, which kind of screwed up a few things and made Shadow a bit too dark, in a way. Now some people just refer to him as the "emo hedgehog," but to be Sonic's counterpart, it make sense his personality is like that...to me at least.

Except Cosmic Mario is a throwaway character deigned to give the player a reason to go through a couple of stages again.

And, outside of Urheart, there's some juicy denial ITT.

[Machenstein]

The Internet is being especially ranty about Sonic today. First Nicochi's rant, then SomethingAwful does a Rom Pit feature on Sonic 2 which makes fun of the modern Sonic games in a tongue-in-cheek manner, and now the Game Overthinker is joining in on the fun. How much animosity towards a blue hedgehog can there possibly be?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the Overthinker on many accounts. But, similar to College Humor's feature on Sonic, he's insinuating that the problem with Sonic is he's an outdated character. No, see, the problem is that's what Sega thinks of Sonic. Otherwise they wouldn't keep having Sonic Team redesign the character so many times. If Sonic truly stayed the way he was in the 90's, your attitude towards him would be similar to your attitude towards Mario or classic Mega Man; more nostalgic leg-humping than you can handle.

There's nothing inherently wrong with Sonic as a character. It's Sega's constant attempts to reinvent him.

[Phos]

Sonic wasn't an outdated character until Sega made him one. Can you put a date on this?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The Internet is being especially ranty about Sonic today. First Nicochi's rant, then SomethingAwful does a Rom Pit feature on Sonic 2 which makes fun of the modern Sonic games in a tongue-in-cheek manner, and now the Game Overthinker is joining in on the fun. How much animosity towards a blue hedgehog can there possibly be?

It's funny tho.

Unlike most of the media who takes a full ride on the bandwagon, the Game Overthinker only takes small trips in it.

Don't get me wrong, he nailed a lot of points dead on, and he isn't insulting any fans. He's generally giving his input of his own opinion.

Unfortunately, while that may be an opinion, he does kinda go on the bandwagon with other folks in regards to the series. Now let's get something straight, the Game Overthinker was suprisingly UNbiased throughout the whole video for four points:

1)Most folks nowadays associate Sonic Adventure 1 with abysmal games such as Sonic 06 on their quality despite the massive timespan between the two, but he didn't do any of that. He says that SA1 was practically the best 3D game despite the flaws for a speed based character.

2)The guy admits the series is still worth saving...however, his reasons for thinking so are unknown at this point. Who knows, while he may think the Sonic cast for example sucks he might actually offer ways to improve them, or he might go along with the bandwagon and say trash them (which won't happen no matter which way you cut it).

3)He didn't criticize anything regarding the character talking...but like point 2 that could change with his second half of the video.

4)He wasn't being a complete classicist. He was concerned for the gameplay and only the gameplay, he couldn't care so much of Sonic being in GHZ or Station Square. Although this part is shifty considering how he said some fads deserve to stay in their period in which they were great.

One part that is really shifty is his approach on the characters. In general he's right: the whole cast sucks! However, I really disagree with him on his view on Shadow, not to say he can't hate him, but it's just that Shadow isn't really the worst character in the video game industry.

While I think they could use some work, because seriously let's face it, it's pretty hard to hate a character when the writing is grand and the character actually becomes cool to the eyes, such as the case with Raiden in MGS4; people hated him for his whininess and all in MGS2, but when he came up in MGS4 performing these superhuman moves too cool for folks to deny, the hate associated with him in MGS2 has calmed down by a lot. The Sonic cast could be the same in that the hate for them could have a massive tone down and a bit more appreciation of them, they were actually well recieved in Chronicles, so who knows.

While he may jump in the wagon at some points, the Game Overthinker still knows what he's talking about. Although this just wasn't what I expected from him...

[Phos]

One part that is really shifty is his approach on the characters. In general he's right: the whole cast sucks! However, I really disagree with him on his view on Shadow, not to say he can't hate him, but it's just that Shadow isn't really the worst character in the video game industry.

While I think they could use some work, because seriously let's face it, it's pretty hard to hate a character when the writing is grand and the character actually becomes cool to the eyes, such as the case with Raiden in MGS4; people hated him for his whininess and all in MGS2, but when he came up in MGS4 performing these superhuman moves too cool for folks to deny, the hate associated with him in MGS2 has calmed down by a lot. The Sonic cast could be the same in that the hate for them could have a massive tone down and a bit more appreciation of them, they were actually well recieved in Chronicles, so who knows.

While he may jump in the wagon at some points, the Game Overthinker still knows what he's talking about. Although this just wasn't what I expected from him...

I found Raiden in MGS4 to be an unflinchingly cynical attempt to get fans to like Raiden, and if you want to make a male character cool, don't stick them in high heels.

However, I really disagree with him on his view on Shadow, not to say he can't hate him, but it's just that Shadow isn't really the worst character in the video game industry.

He didn't say that, or even imply that. In fact, he said that Waluigi beats Shadow at his own game (Being a terrible evil twin).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I found Raiden in MGS4 to be an unflinchingly cynical attempt to get fans to like Raiden

That would kind of be the point. If at first you don't succeed, try a new method. Kojima said that Raiden was practically his favorite character, so I wouldn't blame him for trying to get Raiden to appeal to the crowd.

But besides that, I didn't mean everyone when I said all that. There are still folks who hate him no matter what.

and if you want to make a male character cool, don't stick them in high heels.

Tell that to Vamp. At least Raiden straight, and besides, the heels came with the armor.

He didn't say that, or even imply that. In fact, he said that Waluigi beats Shadow at his own game (Being a terrible evil twin).

Not the way I see it. Either way, he was calling the character as if he were really that big a problem.

Edited April 2, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Dejablue]

Hmmm I wonder what he'll say. I've seen my fair share of "This is how Sonic must be saved!" videos and articles.

My random guess/outline:

"Make Sonic's personality more like Mario's" Eventhough Mario lacks a personality.

"Get rid of at least half the background cast" Especially Shadow.

"No more 3D becuase Sonic Team just cannot get it to work" He may or may not say this Not because he's hard core old school but because thats practicle.

"No more gimmicks." Because only Mario can rightfully have them/ make them work.

And I think he said that Waluigi is the only evil twin character who is WORSE than Shadow.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Dejablue

[lounge]

I'm not even going to watch this. Seeing long-ass youtube vids of fans complaining about sonic gives me a huge migraine.

And they all have the same complaints, like, 95% of the 3d games are abysmal, and have no creativity, have retarded plots and writing because they simply can't understand any of these stories or the morals and purposes behind them.

It's just like one giant, bitchy bandwagon that needs to get flipped over.

[Gamenerd]

I'm not even going to watch this. Seeing long-ass youtube vids of fans complaining about sonic gives me a huge migraine.

And they all have the same complaints, like, 95% of the 3d games are abysmal, and have no creativity, have retarded plots and writing because they simply can't understand any of these stories or the morals and purposes behind them.

It's just like one giant, bitchy bandwagon that needs to get flipped over.

Not really. To be fair, there's about a minute's worth of character hate, but for the most part he's outlining the underlying problems in translating games into 3D, and the shelf-life of a brand based on design. He's far more educated than the average Sonic ranter, to be sure. He didn't take a single shot at the story, he didn't ask for Sonic 4, and he didn't make any throwaway shots at Sonic's fanbase - it was all wholemeal analysis.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Gamenerd

[Phos]

Eh, he says a few things I don't agree with:

Sonic Adventure 2 being ruined by Shadow - It was ruined by Iizuka.

He seems to think Sonic's design was the result of some kind of focus group survey - He was though up between Oshima and Naka, from my understanding, both of them played a part in it, and Yasuhara was probably involved as well.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm not even going to watch this. Seeing long-ass youtube vids of fans complaining about sonic gives me a huge migraine.

And they all have the same complaints, like, 95% of the 3d games are abysmal, and have no creativity, have retarded plots and writing because they simply can't understand any of these stories or the morals and purposes behind them.

It's just like one giant, bitchy bandwagon that needs to get flipped over.

Actually, unlike most folks, this guy knows what he's talking about most of the time.

He barely gives that much hate to the cast, whereas others would have 2 pages on the Sonic characters alone. He doesn't even make a single crack at 3D being the cause of the series failure.

He doesn't talk about the realistic settings vs. the more surreal ones, nor does he make any comparisons with Mario (except for Waluigi being worse than Shadow as an evil twin), and he doesn't fuss at the name change over Eggman's name...atleast not yet.

Just about everything he said was pretty solid. Aside from all that, it's really just a difference on personal taste of the cast.

Now his second video could change a lot of perspectives on this...or leave them the same, having them spread a bit further on Youtube.

[lounge]

Eh, I managed to bring myself to watch it. I predicted I'd hate it, and I did. He wasn't so bad in the beginning, but then he started to annoy me more, and more.

"Shadow SUX!!"

"The entire Sonic Cast is Worthless!!"

"Should sonic be SaVed???"

jeez, give me a break.

[Diogenes]

I think that's more your problem than his. I've been watching this guy's stuff for a while now, and I've found him to be very level headed and reasonable. He's certainly presenting himself a lot better than the generic strawman "Shadow SUX!!!1" guy you're trying to paint him as. At least wait to see the second part before writing off his opinion completely.

Also he did say that he believes Sonic should and can be saved. And I think it's a valid question to ask, anyway. So I dunno why you're nerdraging over that.

[SuperStingray]

Sonic Adventure 2 being ruined by Shadow - It was ruined by Iizuka.

Wait, do you mean SA2 was ruined by Iizuka or Shadow was?

[Phos]

Wait, do you mean SA2 was ruined by Iizuka or Shadow was?

Both.

Sonic Adventure 2 - I'm not going to tell you to stop liking this game, but some of the changes Iizuka made to the formula with this game prevented it from reaching it's potential by a long shot.

Shaodow - If you weren't put off by the dialog or OMFG evil twin status, the sloppy revival will probably do it for you. If that doesn't do it, then where's that damn fourth chaos emerald?

[SuperStingray]

Sonic Adventure 2 - I'm not going to tell you to stop liking this game, but some of the changes Iizuka made to the formula with this game prevented it from reaching it's potential by a long shot.

SA2 may have been the game that brought me into the series, but I can't disagree with that as far as structure goes. I'd probably rather each character have their own shorter storyline than have 3 different gameplay types squeezed into two long ones. That said, I do think many elements such as the Chao Garden and overall level design were vastly improved though.

Shadow - If you weren't put off by the dialog or OMFG evil twin status, the sloppy revival will probably do it for you. If that doesn't do it, then where's that damn fourth chaos emerald?

I never saw Shadow as the evil twin he's often perceived as. He may have seemed that way at first glance, but the fact that he's a hedgehog means nothing characterwise. What makes Shadow not some generic evil twin is that he has his own personality and background that doesn't just take from Sonic's qualities and invert them. In fact, it's hard to really say he's evil period.

That aside, bringing Shadow back is probably the worst mistake made in the series' storyline, perhaps along with the whole Dimension/Future thing. I loved Shadow in SA2, but a canon revival completely stole from the drama provided by the ending of SA2, and almost everything after that either threw out or overly exaggerated virtually every quality of his character I enjoyed in the first place.

Edited April 3, 2009 by SuperStingray

[Rusty Spy]

Both.

Sonic Adventure 2 - I'm not going to tell you to stop liking this game, but some of the changes Iizuka made to the formula with this game prevented it from reaching it's potential by a long shot.

And I'd REALLY want to know how, because to me, this game actually improved upon the formula the most out of all the games that came after it.

Edited April 3, 2009 by VirgoTheCougar

[ovarloard]

And I'd REALLY want to know how, because to me, this game actually improved upon the formula the most out of all the games that came after it.

It was fun, but it could have been even more so. Every one of the games had missed opportunites; this one made the most of them, but wasn't as good as it could have been.