Sonic 4 said to have "few to no physics changes"

[Shade Vortex]

I can't imagine anyone wanting that. With a boost the levels would have to be build for it and we really would have Rush 3 which is not what is wanted from S4.

And yet we have people calling Sonic Colors -more- classic than Sonic 4, which is hilarious. But I guess I was being a bit unreasonable to say that many people would prefer a boost. Anyways,I was speaking about ground level routes. I usually take those myself, so I wonder how many speed boosters there will actually will be.

Honestly, in the Classic games, I remember stages having what, 3 speed boosters at most? I could be wrong. But Splash Hill definitely has too many.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Shade Vortex

[Blue Blood]

And yet we have people calling Sonic Colors -more- classic than Sonic 4, which is hilarious. But I guess I was being a bit unreasonable to say that many people would prefer a boost. Anyways,I was speaking about ground level routes. I usually take those myself, so I wonder how many speed boosters there will actually will be.

Honestly, in the Classic games, i remember stages having what, 3 speed boosters at most? I could be wrong. But Splash Hill definitely has too many.

People are calling Colours more classic because it's staying true to Sonic formula and just spicing it up in the ways. New abilities that just expand on Sonic's moveset, new level ideas, classic concepts (OHNO Eggman stole the cute... animal... alien things...) S4, or E1 for now, isn't those things or is so much those things so much it's like a remake. That's just an opinion though. After such a massive break since the classic games, it makes sense for things to be very samey. If Sonic 4 happened back in the nineties the rehashes would annoy me. It seems like they're a design choice this time around.

About speed boosters though. Not only were the fewer in number before, but they were used differently. They were exclusive to just Chemical Plant (and Launch Base to an extent) in the classic games, were definitely fewer in number and were used for high speed madness rather than just to guide you. Other sorts of speed boosters, like the ones in Hydrocity and Flying Battery worked very different to the standard ones.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Blue Blood

[Sean]

Believe me, guys. It would be just as bad having the boost ability over boost panels. Ever tried playing the Rush games without the boost? You'll be greeted with strings of ground-ridden enemies that are too hard to avoid unless you're boosting right through them.

[DistantJ]

But I know, it's not the Mega Drive original engine. I guess we all have to just chill out and accept that there are two camps of people here - one that's concerned primarily on the engine, and another that's concerned primarily with the overall gameplay and fun of the title.

Well said.

I think the problem here is that we have so many 'fan gamers' (creators of fan games) here - as you know, Dread, I used to be one myself, back when this site was being put together, but Sonic fan gamers have now studied the Sonic engines pixel-by-pixel in order to try to replicate them in their own games and now when they look at anything Sonic related they're seeing an engine and not a game. I mean with the speed boosters, we could complain just as much about how the Spin Dash introduced in Sonic 2 removed the challenge of using physics and momentum to get Sonic rolling and things as well. I mean... How many people, REALLY, when they were 8 years old, thought that the highlight of Sonic 2 was a couple of half-pipes you could roll around in?

People need to get over the physics and start seeing the bigger picture. The engine is made for the level style, and the level style is made for the engine. Things change. The levels are layered, multi-route, and challenging, there's some awesome attention to detail and a perfect mix of nostalgia and newness. It saddens me to think that so much of the fanbase have been reduced to a nit-picking obsessives when this awesome looking game is just a couple of months away.

We haven't even played the game yet, fellas. It might be more fun with these physics. Ever thought of that?

Edited September 24, 2010 by DistantJ

[Blue Blood]

We haven't even played the game yet, fellas. It might be more fun with these physics. Ever thought of that?

No because we know that's not true.

[Spooky Mulder]

No because we know that's not true.

How do we KNOW that?

[Blue Blood]

How do we KNOW that?

Because the physics affect all the things that make Sonic, Sonic. Also, I've played the Rush games without the boost.

[Spooky Mulder]

Because the physics affect all the things that make Sonic, Sonic. Also, I've played the Rush games without the boost.

First, that doesn't make them not fun and second, Rush's physics are worse than Sonic 4's and the level design is just terrible it's hardly fair to say Sonic 4 is Rush minus the boost.

[Blue Blood]

First, that doesn't make them not fun and second, Rush's physics are worse than Sonic 4's and the level design is just terrible it's hardly fair to say Sonic 4 is Rush minus the boost.

I didn't say it'd not be fun, but just less fun. Rush's physics are exactly the same as S4's anyway.

[DistantJ]

I love Sonic Rush because of the way it plays. I think it's much more fun to be able to run and run and run, and it can still be very challenging. Therefore I'm sure this game will be fun.

God, you people, really. Play the game before you decide, then if you don't like it, oh well, it's not for you!

[Aquaslash]

You forget, some people here actually HAVE played the game already. Most of them say that compared to the older games, something's off. Even a previewer has said this.

I already know right now, I'm NOT gonna be too thrilled about rolling and bouncing being gimped until I transform. You may have been too garbage of a player to really utilize them, but they've become second nature to me now.

[Patticus]

Reading this post on GRcade doesn't really fill me with confidence, RE the unchanged physics:

So it still has the rubbish and broken Momentum and Physics? No sale, it just isn't as fun to control as any of the other Sonic games, I thought it was a bug when I stopped instantly in mid air and fell to the ground when releasing the stick.

Fucking hell, Sega. *Facepalm*

When the game detects you're not holding the stick left or right, it's not gradual, it just instantly stops you in midair. :fp: :fp:

Watch from 1:10, you'll see me run and jump midair then instantly stop, also, with the spin dash over the edge.

Really annoyed the delay was to change the levels and not this. >=(

http://grcade.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16576&start=835

I see what he's annoyed at. Where's the momentum in spin dashing over a ledge and then insta-stopping? In any other game, particularly (but not exclusively) the early games they claim this to be a true sequel to, you'd be careening along at a cracking pace, but this one denies you the pleasure. What a dick move.

[Blue Blood]

The terrible slope behaviour is at least ignorable. I mean, it's bloody awful but at least you can ignore it a lot of the time. The mid-air inertia on the other hand is going to suck hard in any situation and it's going to work a nightmare on Casino Street especially.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Blue Blood

[speedfreak]

It is a bit concerning, but I usually held the direction I was flying in anyway. I'm not sure how I'll really feel about this until I get my hands on it.

[Scar]

EDIT:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

That video was made in July.

The 6th of July.

That was close to 3 months ago......

I doubt that it was the final build

Edited September 25, 2010 by Scar

[Blue Blood]

You can tell it wasn't simply looking at the lack of blur on Sonic. But you can see the same problem in Ruby's video (less obvious as he's speed-running), and not to mention that the game hasn't received any major physics changes.

[Scar]

You can tell it wasn't simply looking at the lack of blur on Sonic. But you can see the same problem in Ruby's video (less obvious as he's speed-running), and not to mention that the game hasn't received any major physics changes.

True, but it is still an old build.

It also depends on what qualifies as a major physics change.

I don't think adding mid-air intertia, reducing roll-friction is a major change. It won't be affected by level layout, and the at most they'd have to change the position of some Bubbles.

On the other hand changing the entire physics engine is major, as it will be affected by level layout and not just badnik placement.

Un-curling isn't even a physics problem and is unaffected by anything.

[speedfreak]

Is it even possible to make minor physics changes? If so what would be considered minor? I thought that with something like that it was all or nothing.

Having no inertia in the sir really does change things up from the classics quite a bit. I mean all that stuff about going back to the classics seems to have amounted to nothing more then superficies things. Though I still think it looks fun personally.

[DistantJ]

You may have been too garbage of a player to really utilize them

You're resorting to telling me I'm crap at the game now just because I don't share your ridiculous nitpicks? Forget it. Your loss, I'm going to be the one having fun, then going out and doing something with my life rather than being bothered by such trivial things.

*leaves topic cause he can't see it going anywhere positive*

[Sean]

Jesus christ, both of you lay off each other's throats. DistantJ, you're not doing any better by saying people have no life for being bothered by certain things in this game. "Doing something with your life"? Wow, sure is serious business in here guys.

[DistantJ]

Sorry, I really do feel that way though. I am being a bit out of line but I think this whole thing is crazy... Talking about the 'physics' of a game, noticing how a character responds to stopping the analog stick in a jump etc. in a game which isn't even released, it just seems absolutely barmy to me. So I'll leave the topic because I don't think I have anything productive to say about it all.

[Aquaslash]

Your loss, I'm going to be the one having fun, then going out and doing something with my life rather than being bothered by such trivial things.

>implying I won't have fun with this game

*spoiler tagging as a precaution*

Son, do you know who you're replying to?

Perhaps you didn't learn that Super Sonic is fully playable in this game. (maybe avoiding spoilers which makes this useless XD)

Let me repeat that, with added emphasis.

Super Sonic is usable in regular platforming gameplay for the first time in 13 years. (yes I allotted Sonic R in there)

If you honestly think this will not be my new favorite game forever and ever and ever, then you haven't known me long enough XD

Edited September 26, 2010 by Aquaslash

[Tornado]

Here's something interesting that I noticed while I was digging around trying to find an old post that I made (for the record, I never found it):

Back when the "Sonic 4 is Sonic Rush 3 Without the Boost" arguments happened, most of the big fights about this game were basically about whether it looked like it used the Sonic Rush engine. At the time, the popular arguments used for supporting the game were "No it doesn't, because it doesn't have boost" and "We really can't tell if it does or not" (I happened to agree with the latter). Despite this, the reason that this distinction was important was obvious to all involved in the discussions, regardless of where they came down on the issue. Very few people thought (or at least actively voiced the idea) that the game actually being based on the Rush engine wasn't cause for concern.

And yet, funnily enough, now that we know that it does use the engine in question, the arguments that are supporting the game have shifted to "What difference does it make?" It makes me wish I was a psychology major.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Tornado

[Scar]

Here's something interesting that I noticed while I was digging around trying to find an old post that I made (for the record, I never found it):

Back when the "Sonic 4 is Sonic Rush 3 Without the Boost" arguments happened, most of the big fights about this game were basically about whether it looked like it used the Sonic Rush engine. At the time, the popular arguments used for supporting the game were "No it doesn't, because it doesn't have boost" and "We really can't tell if it does or not" (I happened to agree with the latter). Despite this, the reason that this distinction was important was obvious to all involved in the discussions, regardless of where they came down on the issue. Very few people thought (or at least actively voiced the idea) that the game actually being based on the Rush engine wasn't cause for concern.

And yet, funnily enough, now that we know that it does use the engine in question, the arguments that are supporting the game have shifted to "What difference does it make?" It makes me wish I was a psychology major.

Makes me wish people didn't look into this too much.

Argument sqitching and changes in perspective based on new information and evidence is the natural and logical thing to do.

[Tornado]

Argument sqitching and changes in perspective based on new information and evidence is the natural and logical thing to do.

In this case it really isn't. It seems to be more like obfuscating the original arguments (which were generally "Sonic Rush engine would be bad for this game to have, but we don't know if the game is using it," and later "it uses the Rush engine, but the game's delay will allow it to be changed") just to defend the game. I would call it hypocrisy, but I wasn't paying attention to the posts enough to discern if anyone in particular actually had a roll reversal about the subject.

I mean, there is quite a big difference between defending the game because a hugely divisive problem would be changed in the final game, and defending the game because the hugely divisive problem was never a problem in the first place. And I haven't seen any hard evidence that would explain why the switch would actually occur. There have been some glowing previews, but there have also been some that mentioned some oddities.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Tornado