DmC: a new Devil May Cry

[Nintendoga]

So, from somebody who doesn't hate the new game just because of new Dante, and from somebody who isn't a newcomer to the series, how is the demo? How does it seem to fair against the other DMC titles?

I'd play it but I was actually one of those dumb-asses who put their real age on Xbox Live when I first joined.

[Eternal EX]

So, from somebody who doesn't hate the new game just because of new Dante, and from somebody who isn't a newcomer to the series, how is the demo? How does it seem to fair against the other DMC titles?

I'd play it but I was actually one of those dumb-asses who put their real age on Xbox Live when I first joined.

On a serious level, this game isn't bad at all. If you can get past the very medicore script and Dante's new look, you may find something good here. The visuals are great. Capcom using the Unreal engine was smart. But the jumping physics are still blah.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Making it a prequel wouldn't change the plot really. There is also zero harm in an alt universe retelling as it doesn't tarnish official canon. Official canon established by a bald man that works at Platinum Games now. I am having trouble parsing the meaning of this sentence in my brain but I think I've responded to your point.

Actually, no you didn't because my point was about the execution of the concept whether it was a prequel or a alternate universe.

In the words of the great Hideki Kamiya

"Use your own brain."

"Why don't you imagine by yourself?"

"only Dante knows"

https://twitter.com/...tus/25669823717

https://twitter.com/...tus/25008011501

https://twitter.com/...136464626913280

Even better, ask Kamiya yourself.

Okay...that's pretty much dodging my answer to your question when you asked why should we have a prequel before DMC3.

And I'd still rather have a game show me what happened regardless of how much "using my imagination" I would do.

Having untold aspects of the story, or events or backstory not explicitly stated throughout the game is not a bad thing. Especially when whatever dante or vergil happened to be doing before DMC3 isn't particularly interesting to begin with, otherwise they would have mentioned it in another game somewhere already.

And neither is having those aspects of the story, or events, or backstory fleshed out from a further prequel.

Also why would this game being canon be a good thing in any way shape or form? Isn't this thing being reviled due to it's presentation and apparent plot?

Yeah, after they told us it wouldn't be a prequel in telling us it would be an alternate universe. This game as it is now wouldn't have been good as canon, but we weren't expecting the things that came beyond the announcement after getting details of it being a prequel.

But he was already like.... 18 or something in DMC3. It doesn't make sense with his appearance for him to be any younger or smoking if he already got over it by DMC3. Where he was already ludicrously young. Him having the devil trigger when he gets it in 3 wouldn't make sense either.

Then he could have been 17 in a prequel set before DMC3, and considering we don't know anything about what happened before that beyond him not seeing Vergil for a year or his mother dying I fail to see how it wouldn't make sense for him to be any younger or smoking for whatever reason they gave us. The guy said he had powers even when he was a kid right at the beginning of DMC1, why don't we "use our imagination" to help make the prequel explain those bits more?

It basically solves a lot of problems having it in an alt universe. I imagine the decision was made when someone at NT figured out how idiotic the story would seem otherwise.

Then they should have told us clearly at the beginning, or told us they changed it because there were issues with the way they were carrying the plot rather than tell us left field that this would be different and thought that the old Dante wouldn't be as cool.

That is complete speculation on the author of that article's part.

Not really.

There's a reason people made those kinds of assumptions to begin with.

1. so they responded to critique and fixed the problem many fans had and that's a bad thing.

The only critique they responded to and fixed whatever problem the fans had was that Dante had black hair and his Devil Trigger would make him have his white hair.

the nero point is completely irrelevant.

No, you're just overlooking the point. The Nero point is an example of how this game may not be hated as it is simply because of the change in setting or even character design, although that's not entirely a guarantee given the mixed initial reactions.

2. Yes there is because it's stupid.

This response you gave me is stupid.

3. No they weren't. Everyone hates it now and they hated it then. Everyone. Like everywhere. On the internet. You can even see it in this thread every two posts or so when people shit on the game for no reason other than it's aesthetics. Of all the shaky arguemnts to use "DmC should be canon" is some shaky ground indeed.

Really? Because when they first saw it, reactions were definitely mixed, from excitement to uncertainty to disgust even in this thread. Also in this thread, when people heard wind of it being a prequel, you can hear some of them saying that their anger at the changes have subsided. It was until they started announcing details in conflict with what the fans were going along with that people started becoming upset again before everyone started hating it again almost unanimously.

Edited November 23, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Candescence]

On a serious level, this game isn't bad at all. If you can get past the very medicore script and Dante's new look, you may find something good here. The visuals are great. Capcom using the Unreal engine was smart. But the jumping physics are still blah.

Using an engine that limits framerate to 30fps rather than the 60fps that an action game like Devil May Cry needs is smart, now? They could've easily achieved much better results with one of Capcom's in-house engines.

And no, the visuals are not that great. The character/enemy models are garbage compared to DMC4, and Limbo is highly, highly overrated, and the environment changes are as scripted as fuck, I hear that the environment can't actually kill you unless you fall into a pit. The part where the walls close in on you? Can't kill you either, it just waits for you to hit the next event flag before it moves.

[Kuzu]

Ya know, treating people like they're wrong for liking this game isn't exactly helping the problem.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

As much as I'm disappointed with how the chose to do the continuity I'm not gonna up and say the gameplay is bad to keep hating it. When I play the demo and see if it's decent I'll give it a star. I won't let my judgement of the story cloud my views of the gameplay if it actually manages to stand strong.

[Remy]

Took me a minute or two to find the names, but here we go. Heavenly Sword's script was completely redone by Rhianna Pratchet. Enslaved's was redone by Alex Garland. It's basically the similar to how other people reined in George Lucas' stupid shit while he was making the Star Wars prequels and then later people stopped reining him in and that's how the stupid changes in the remastered films and the prequels happened, and showed that Lucas couldn't write a script for shit. Same thing here, except on a much bigger scale. Garland was the guy who said that stuff about Monkey originally being a dick, and obviously he reined in Ninja Theory enough so the plotline was better than crap... Didn't stop the ending from being terrible, it seemed. Either way, they're both single-handedly responsible for the quality of the scripts in Ninja Theory's previous two titles.

This is the first time Tameem has actually tried writing a script without help from anyone who actually has a fucking clue, and it shows. In a video on an earlier page describing why the new Dante's character is terrible, the guy talking expressed complete bewilderment over how the writing quality could suddenly plummet from Ninja Theory's earlier efforts. There's a good reason for that.

Thanks. Well I guess we can only hope some of the script has gone through that kind of rewrite. If we're still suffering a Tameem fronted disaster this game is doomed.

Actually, no you didn't because my point was about the execution of the concept whether it was a prequel or a alternate universe.

That is such a completely useless and vapid point to make in any kind of discussion because it's impossible to argue against. Of course this game would have a good story if the concept was executed well.

But here's the thing, it's not executed well. Do you think the first trailer with meth addict dante flicking cigarettes was executed well? I don't think so. Which brings me to my next point: Who cares?

I'd rather talk about what the game is, then what it could be, maybe, if it was written well.

And neither is having those aspects of the story, or events, or backstory fleshed out from a further prequel.

Sometimes it is.

The only critique they responded to and fixed whatever problem the fans had was that Dante had black hair and his Devil Trigger would make him have his white hair.

Cigarettes. Sense of humor.

Not really.

There's a reason people made those kinds of assumptions to begin with.

"Occupation: Head of Marketing - Capcom"

http://www.capcom-eu...ile.php?u=29251

Forgive me if I don't take that guy's word as the gospel. You know essentially what his job description is? Telling people what they want to hear, and if you believe the BS he’s shoveling out you’re a sucker. Fuck marketers.

No, you're just overlooking the point. The Nero point is an example of how this game may not be hated as it is simply because of the change in setting or even character design, although that's not entirely a guarantee given the mixed initial reactions.

Capcom had so little faith in Nero as a character they

1. Canned his planned trilogy
   
2. Cut out the second half of the game and shoehorned Dante in.
   

So that's not really a good example. If you want to sell me on this you're going to have to use an example of this that's actually a success. And no, I don't class "not everyone hated it" or "i liked it" or "mixed reception" as an example of success. That's still failure. Just not a complete disaster. The problem with doing something like this is that, generally speaking fans aren't going to like it. Nero and this Dante are kind of in the same boat, although obviously approaching the situation from completely different angles, with new Dante being more drastic.

Both characters are attempts at replacing the old Dante with a cool or hip, younger alternative. Nero being the Japanese take on that, and Donte being the west's For what reason I have no idea considering the original Dante's popularity. I also have no idea why they felt the need to ditch Nero so quickly, but the fact is they did. Was this the subject of a focus test somewhere? Clearly DMC4 didn't meet sales expectations somewhere.

*intermission*

Really? Because when they first saw it, reactions were definitely mixed, from excitement to uncertainty to disgust even in this thread. Also in this thread, when people heard wind of it being a prequel, you can hear some of them saying that their anger at the changes have subsided. It was until they started announcing details in conflict with what the fans were going along with that people started becoming upset again before everyone started hating it again almost unanimously.

What? I remember people being infuriated that it was a prequel.

*post resumed*

Regarding your point about why they couldn't go back further- it's because it is ridiculous to imply that within the space of a year not only does he quit smoking but his entire personality changes. The changes to the character in the initial DmC reveal trailer are far too drastic to write off as happening within a year before DMC3, and he looks far too old to make the time gap between the games much longer then that.

The idea to launch this game as a prequel was poorly conceived in the beginning, and has me wondering if anyone involved in the game knew about DMC3 to begin with. If the development team stated they wanted to reinvent the character for today's perception of cool why not reboot it to begin with? I find it interesting that you want this to be in universe so badly, or would prefer it to be in universe. do you not care about character integrity? Making wisecracking smartass dante into a moody douche didn't work in DMC2 and it didn't work here. It contradicts his existing character so severely the only result you're going to get is a completely awkward feeling of the game being disconnected.

It makes more sense to just reboot the whole world if you're going to drastically rewrite the lead. You don't have to worry about fitting anything in with anything else because it doesn't need to fit. They can do whatever the fuck they want with Donte because he's a different dude. He can smoke, he can have a sidekick, a shitty personality, black hair, whatever.

You can shoehorn in your shitty angel/demon nephelim plot because hell, you can do whatever he's a new guy.

Which kind of makes me think. I wonder if they were going to go with the angel/demon thing before they went out on a limb and said it's in another universe. That contradicts DMC1 so hard it isn't funny. I guess the scythe/axe thing would have had to have come out after they decided to retcon his birth.

Setting it in another universe is about the only smart decision they've made so far. If this whole thing fails they can just go back to the main series with literally zero damage done. Even if for some reason Capcom doesn't seem to be able to make a sequel set directly after or around the same time as DMC1.

Also, regarding the plot Carbo basically said a lot of what I was trying to get across earlier except through the lens of someone that can actually communicate effectively as opposed to my already stunted brain being filtered through me being up at 2am typing because I can't sleep.

This is something of a strawman since as far as story goes this was never the real problem nor draw when it came to the remake or the original games. The important thing is character, and DMC is and has always been character driven above all else as far as narratives go. Stories can barely bank on surviving without a good protagonist, and in the place of a wisecracking lovable scamp, we have a dropout asshole who clocks-out bouncers in order to scribble "fuck you" on invitation lists because he's hardcore, yells profanities and thinks he's hot shit by giving himself a bunch of cool titles.

This is kind of what I was trying to get at but I think I posted before actually writing it in. The actual plots in these games are paper thin, generally and take a backseat to anything else in the game. The important thing is definitely character, with the plot mostly serving as a tool to get the cool character to do cool things.

I don't have an issue when people say new Dante is a dickhead. Because he is. The one liner around the boss fight in the demo ( "Dante the DEMON HUNTER Got a nice ring to it right?!" ) was some seriously lame dialogue, alongside the artful exchange beforehand of FUCK YOUs kind of reads like something I would have wrote in highschool whilst going through a rough patch. It's vapid, it's souless and it's shitty. It's not funny because it's so cliche. This character is obviously not as good as the OG and never will be. He sucks.

But the core difference here is they're not exactly making, from the looks of it, a completely character driven game. Dante himself doesn't appear to talk much in the demo outside of the boss dialogue, and the overarching plot seems to do more with the they live style take over of the world then anything personal with dante, with the big players looking more like Vergil and Dante's sidekick then he himself, who appears to be mostly along for the ride. Whether this is good or bad is up to you.

I have an issue with people implying the actual plot of DMC was worth anything up to the point. I don't mind if people hate new dante.

And no, the visuals are not that great. The character/enemy models are garbage compared to DMC4, and Limbo is highly, highly overrated, and the environment changes are as scripted as fuck, I hear that the environment can't actually kill you unless you fall into a pit. The part where the walls close in on you? Can't kill you either, it just waits for you to hit the next event flag before it moves.

So? it looks awesome? isn't that enough? You know what's a far worse way to do environmental hazards? DMC4 with it's miss a grapple> fall into a pit and fight 7 enemies or it's disappearing floaty platforms, or it's dice game. At least this game isn't completely aggravating when all you want to do is progress.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

That is such a completely useless and vapid point to make in any kind of discussion because it's impossible to argue against. Of course this game would have a good story if the concept was executed well.

Remz, dude...that is the most cowardly and ridiculous rebuttal to make, and is fallacious to boot. By that logic, anything you can’t argue against is vapid and useless. Nevermind that one point behind making a strong argument or strengthing one is to make it so that it is harder for someone to argue against.

But here's the thing, it's not executed well. Do you think the first trailer with meth addict dante flicking cigarettes was executed well? I don't think so.

No I don’t think so either, but considering that at the time of the trailer we had very little information on it, I was hoping that further details would make up for it. They initially did before we were told something else.

Which brings me to my next point: Who cares?

Obviously the many people complaining about it, for one.

I'd rather talk about what the game is, then what it could be, maybe, if it was written well.

If that’s the case then you jumped into the wrong argument because my whole beef is just with the story.

Sometimes it is.

And sometimes it isn’t.

You wanna play this game all day with me? Come at me, bro.

Cigarettes. Sense of humor.

lol Okay, I’ll admit, I overlooked those two things…my bad.

"Occupation: Head of Marketing - Capcom"

http://www.capcom-eu...ile.php?u=29251

Forgive me if I don't take that guy's word as the gospel. You know essentially what his job description is? Telling people what they want to hear, and if you believe the BS he’s shoveling out you’re a sucker. Fuck marketers.

Still doesn’t help their case one bit. Yeah, I’ll go on and admit I believed it right off the bat, but when you hear it at the time you have little details on it and the game sparks a major stir among fans I honestly wouldn’t blame them for taking it at face value for reassurance.

Capcom had so little faith in Nero as a character they

1. Canned his planned trilogy
   

He had a planned trilogy?! That’s news to me. I figured they’d use him more, but not for a whole trilogy.

At any rate…

If you want to sell me on this you're going to have to use an example of this that's actually a success. And no, I don't class "not everyone hated it" or "i liked it" or "mixed reception" as an example of success. That's still failure. Just not a complete disaster. The problem with doing something like this is that, generally speaking fans aren't going to like it. Nero and this Dante are kind of in the same boat, although obviously approaching the situation from completely different angles, with new Dante being more drastic.

Well then unless you’d allow me to go outside of this series for an example of a drastic change being a success, I can’t give you one for the DMC franchise considering it has so few titles before this one to make that point.

What? I remember people being infuriated that it was a prequel.

Really? Then we must have been looking at two different groups. On here, responses of it being a prequel settled down a lot of rage before they yanked that chain back, and on other parts of the internet the responses were mixed between "okay, cool" to “fuck that, this isn’t Dante”.

Going even further are fans who would have been more than okay with this design with the exception of the hairstyle and British stitching on his jacket. So clearly they tugged on a lot of legs with the prequel statement.

Regarding your point about why they couldn't go back further- it's because it is ridiculous to imply that within the space of a year not only does he quit smoking but his entire personality changes. The changes to the character in the initial DmC reveal trailer are far too drastic to write off as happening within a year before DMC3, and he looks far too old to make the time gap between the games much longer then that.

The idea to launch this game as a prequel was poorly conceived in the beginning, and has me wondering if anyone involved in the game knew about DMC3 to begin with. If the development team stated they wanted to reinvent the character for today's perception of cool why not reboot it to begin with? I find it interesting that you want this to be in universe so badly, or would prefer it to be in universe. do you not care about character integrity? Making wisecracking smartass dante into a moody douche didn't work in DMC2 and it didn't work here. It contradicts his existing character so severely the only result you're going to get is a completely awkward feeling of the game being disconnected.

It makes more sense to just reboot the whole world if you're going to drastically rewrite the lead. You don't have to worry about fitting anything in with anything else because it doesn't need to fit. They can do whatever the fuck they want with Donte because he's a different dude. He can smoke, he can have a sidekick, a shitty personality, black hair, whatever.

You can shoehorn in your shitty angel/demon nephelim plot because hell, you can do whatever he's a new guy.

Which kind of makes me think. I wonder if they were going to go with the angel/demon thing before they went out on a limb and said it's in another universe. That contradicts DMC1 so hard it isn't funny. I guess the scythe/axe thing would have had to have come out after they decided to retcon his birth.

Setting it in another universe is about the only smart decision they've made so far. If this whole thing fails they can just go back to the main series with literally zero damage done. Even if for some reason Capcom doesn't seem to be able to make a sequel set directly after or around the same time as DMC1.

Thank you. Now this is a much better response than “lol, it’s stupid” like you did previously, and when you actually put it like that I think I can come to an agreement with you about this a lot easier.

I wasn’t being too clear, because really I wasn’t going to expect him to be 17 and smoking or go through a drastic personality change through a whole year in a prequel to DMC3. I’d expect something like that to be further back, and considering that this game in particular was said by the marketer that this would be Dante as a teenager I would expect anything from a 15 to 17 year like I did at first.

I don’t think the idea to make this a prequel at the beginning was stupid. I was actually more in defense of this game prior to hearing news that this Dante would be half-angel, and still with the thought of this being a prequel in mind. Nothing made me suspicious prior to that point that they were doing something completely different from what I was going to expect.

I still question whether this was a smart decision, because while you can shoehorn what-the-fuck-ever into an alternate universe setting, I can’t help but think that they only shot themselves in the foot having the marketer initially explain that this was going to be a prequel. I’m not entirely confident that going right off the bat that this would be a new universe would’ve been good either, but I could guess that things could have been different had they did that to begin with. There’s no doubt people would vocalize their dislike of it, but to their benefit they wouldn’t have the fans get even more angrier feeling like they were lied to about this.

Edit: took out that last quote. I think I was pushing buttons a little too much there.

Edited November 23, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Alice Twilight]

When I first played DMC I always wanted a game based on Sparda.

[Phos]

I liked Nero because his sword had an engine in it.

When I first played DMC I always wanted a game based on Sparda.

Man that would be bananas. Wasn't that only 200 years before DMC 1? Would Sparda be using his demon powers to fire muskets full auto?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It was 1000 years last I checked.

Edit: Scratch that, it was 2000 years.

Edited November 23, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Alice Twilight]

I liked Nero because his sword had an engine in it.

Man that would be bananas. Wasn't that only 200 years before DMC 1? Would Sparda be using his demon powers to fire muskets full auto?

In the last level of DMC Dante's devil trigger is in the form of his father.

He shoots balls of energy/fire, when you're doing that on rails boss fight and when you're on foot (in DT form mind you) that's pretty neato, the Sparda sword also shows it's full power.

heh, wish that sword was usable again, last time we could use it was when you unlocked Trish in Devil May Cry 2.

anywho

You can also unlock a skin for Dante that's of his father, his devil trigger is almost the same

IIRC you can only use guns and not the abilities in the last boss battle.

His shadow is pretty neat when you choose that skin...it's Sparda in DT form.

Oh and to answer your question the opening cutscene says "2 milleniums ago" Well that was when the war between the demons and humans started/ended.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Hatsune Miku/Alice

[Soniman]

I liked this demo, whoops.

[Falco]

So I played the DmC demo. It's pretty fucking shitty. Doesn't feel like a Devil May Cry game.

-combat is slow and sluggish to old DMC, and it doesn't run at 60fps, so the input time is slower

-button inputs sometimes just do not register

-heavy/light combat stances ripped straight from Heavenly Sword

-Demon Stance standard weapon (the Arbiter) does WAY too much damage

-Angel Stance grapple lets you stay in the air for way too long (was in the air for three minutes on the demo's Son of Sparda mode)

-guns are diddlying useless now

-no styles, combat is a mixed bag from each style but this, again, takes away combo variation

-the style meter is no longer based on creativity, just based on how much damage you do

-enemies take way too long to attack, sometimes 4-6 seconds

-parrying is weird because it can sometimes just randomly happen because of the way it works

-Devil Trigger feels dumb now, slows down time, yet sends the enemies into the air, and there's no explanation as to why new Dante looks like old Dante during DT

-evading is no longer R1+X+direction, it's R1 OR L1

-no lock on, stinger is now Direction-Direction-Triangle, so you can't really aim with it, guns have the same problem

-no taunts

-on Son of Sparda difficulty, there are weapon specific enemies. This takes away move creativity, especially the ones you can only use the Arbiter on

-launching enemies into the air is now a one button process (Circle)

-in the boss fight, you can exploit it with the parrying so you are just standing around waiting for the Succubus to attack

-story wise, from what we've seen, and what's leaked, it's fanfiction tier

-the game just feels easy. If I was playing DMC4 on Son of Sparda mode, I'd be getting diddlying destroyed, yet I died once in the Succubus fight and never during the Under Watch segment

-Limbo segments don't really give you a sense of urgency, the walls will close on you but you have a bit of time

-getting the higher ranks on the Style Meter aka the S ranks (renamed to Savage, SSadistic, and SSSensational) doesn't feel nearly as rewarding as it did in the older titles

-I can't jump cancel but judging from videos it's only available for certain moves

+as you move up the style meter, more parts (guitar, drums, vocals, etc.) get added to the music. this is a nice incentive to do well.

+enviromental design is very well done, colors are extremely vibrant

+graphics for the most part look nice, shading could use some work though

I've made my decision. It's a shitty God of War clone, and personally, calling it Devil May Cry is blasphemous. This is not DMC, this is not fast paced Japanese action, this is shit. At least Metal Gear Rising comes out a month later.

[Chooch]

Yeah, I was actually telling my best friend that the game feels like Heavenly Sword 2.

The original Heavenly Sword was not a bad game in any sense of the word, but it was generally unremarkable and not really comparable to stylistic action games like Devil May Cry.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Chooch

[Detective Shadzter]

Both available at GameStop UK.

Xbox 360:

http://www.gamestop.co.uk/Xbox%20360/Games/12011/dmc-devil-may-cry-preorder-bonus-packs?previousUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamestop.co.uk%2FSearchResult%2FQuickSearch%3Fq%3DDMC%20Devil%20May%20Cry%26inTitle%3DTrue

PS3:

http://www.gamestop.co.uk/PlayStation%203/Games/12020/dmc-devil-may-cry-preorder-bonus-packs?previousUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamestop.co.uk%2FSearchResult%2FQuickSearch%3Fq%3DDMC%20Devil%20May%20Cry%26inTitle%3DTrue

They have the Son of Sparda Edition, too.

Xbox 360:

http://www.gamestop.co.uk/Xbox%20360/Games/44031/dmc-devil-may-cry-son-of-sparda-edition?previousUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamestop.co.uk%2FSearchResult%2FQuickSearch%3Fq%3DDMC%20Devil%20May%20Cry%26inTitle%3DTrue

PS3:

http://www.gamestop.co.uk/PlayStation%203/Games/44030/dmc-devil-may-cry-son-of-sparda-edition?previousUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamestop.co.uk%2FSearchResult%2FQuickSearch%3Fq%3DDMC%20Devil%20May%20Cry%26inTitle%3DTrue

[turbojet]

I forgot to post my rant here.

So I played the demo and I must admit that this was the most mediocre thing that I've played in awhile. It did exceed my ridicously low expectations gameplay wise, but I fully expect that this half-assed attempt at a "social commentary" of a story will bring down any enjoyable experience that the gameplay might present so it is whatevs. Now I'm honestly perplexed where the DMC4 comparisons are coming from or when story all of the sudden became important to the video game playing community. I mean I thought what differentiated this medium and movies was that you create the experiences in them, not simply have the experience shown to you.

I admit that the previous DMC games had little to no plot in them, but so the fuck what? All you needed was an excuse to slay some metaphysical abominations with awesome. Whatever motivation you may have been given was overshadowed by pure visceral desire to fuck shit up in the most fantastic way possible. This demo did not allow me that satisfaction. DMC4 did. Regardless of the new Dante, there is something wrong with this when I, the player, feel like I'm just mindlessly hacking away at shit just for hacking away. There is not much differentiation in combos and when you do try to mix it up between the Rebellion, Heavenly Scythe, Hellish Scythe, and grapple combos, it feels oddly reminiscent of Heavenly Sword. Hell, that grapple chain sword thing screams Heavenly Sword since it's main function is to pull enemies towards you. The Demon Scythe is the heavy while the Heavenly and Rebellion combos are pretty much the speed combos. This is Heavenly Sword without the counter mechanic that made the game pretty much easy mode. DMC4's Nero was different because it felt so damn good to fight with him. His motivation may have been cheesy as all hell, but fuck it, I enjoyed the shit out of it. Unlike this game, there were nuances in Nero made him so damn fun to play. I remember beating the shit out of some poor bastard until only a sliver of his health was left and had Nero fire off a charged shot which a delay in them before they exploded. In this delay, I had Nero clap and applaud the fucker's eventual demise. Style points were rewarded. Or the Angelo Credo's boss fight when he was about the chuck his sword at you? Nero can catch that son of a bitch with his Devil hand and chuck it right back at the bastard. I recall these experiences that game allows me to do more than some overly convoluted story. That's why video games are video games.

[Voyant]

I wonder how many people going in hating the game already gave it enough time to achieve this level of gameplay.

I can see some of Heavenly Sword in it though despite it being much more satisfying and faster, but that doesn't mean it can't be a decent entry in the franchise.

Honestly though the biggest problem I have with the game is there being no lock on. You can see some of those issues in the vid below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9wth1Wk3EM&feature=plcp

Edited November 26, 2012 by Voyant

[Balding Spider]

Tried downloading the demo four times already and each time I get a error. Clearly something doesn't want me playing this game.

[Remy]

I wonder how many people going in hating the game already gave it enough time to achieve this level of gameplay.

I can see some of Heavenly Sword in it though despite it being much more satisfying and faster, but that doesn't mean it can't be a decent entry in the franchise.

Honestly though the biggest problem I have with the game is there being no lock on. You can see some of those issues in the vid below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9wth1Wk3EM&feature=plcp'

To answer your first point, not many. Half the people complaining about how much this game sucks will not be at the level to make videos like, especially as funnily enough, DmC is probably the easiest game yet to look awesome in, considering how easy moves flow in to each other, and the variety of tools you have in the demo. Yet they still complain.

Speaking of I'm trying to get through that video, and I was dealing okay with the guy's head up the ass attitude for about the first seconds or so until he suggested turning the music down.like this is something that isn't a problem with the entire fucking series.

Devil May Cry 4 probably has the most obnoxious, overused fight theme in any game I've played ever. Every single non event of a battle in this game, that doesn't happen to be a boss fight plays the same obnoxious, idiotic, repititive, waste of time shitfest of a song that is Time Has Come.

thetimehascomeandsohaveithepainresidesandmybraindiesiseethefearwhenilookinyoureyesthissongfuckingsucksandadevilmaycry.

fuck bayonetta had like 11 fight themes.

My biggest problem with guys like the one in the video is that they appear to have no fucking idea what they're talking about. Hell. I’m going to watch this video and write down what I think as I watch it.

I want to point out that his point about "without lockon you can't have directional inputs for your moves" is completely horseshit. Seeing as Bayonetta, despite having a lockon button also allows you to use every single move in the game without using the lock on button. it makes use of both pauses, directional inputs, and two buttons to add more moves then pretty much every other devil may cry game put together.

It's also such a moot point considering by removing lock on (and adding the launcher button) you lose maybe... 4 moves total? I bet he couldn't even name the moves he's so shattered losing to begin with. It's a shallow pedantic thing to complain about.

Lock on is handy, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't use it, but the only time during bayonetta I bother to lock on is when i want a quick launcher. Which is usually be just holding it briefly as a modifier for my attacks... which is, oh my god. exactly like the demon angel stance system he hates! more or less! wow!

The only reason lock on is even such a big factor to begin with in DMC is the auto lock on systems in the old games sucked fucking ass. There's a reason Kamiya moved things like the launcher and other moves out of the lock on ghetto when he made Bayonetta- it's a hacky solution to the shitty auto targeting of the time. Lock on becomes far less necessary if you have a reliable intuitive auto lock-on system in place instead.

He says there's two buttons for dodging and complains about it. That's hilarious What do you think is a more important function to have at a press, dodging or manual lock on?

I say dodging, every single time. I've been playing DMC4 this last week and

-fuck his voice is so fucking annoying did he seriously just wank over style switching and the fucking pandora, jesus how does anyone take this guy seriously-

but anyway yeah I've been replaying DMC4 this last week, and until you get to dante and the trickster style, dodging is a royal pain in the ass.

For starters, it's useless until you buy one upgrade and the invincibility becomes decent, but even then you can only dodge side to side until you upgrade it again, which gains the ability to dodge backwards. Even then, before you dodge you have to first lock on, then press a valid direction and the a button, usually used for jumping before you actually dodge.

DMC4 can have a break because it's pre bayonetta, but in a post Bayo world that kind of obtuse dodging is completely unacceptable. Dodging is your only defense so why should it be obscured? DMC vets will argue the old way is good enough but that's bullshit, dodging with a simple button press is one of the many, genius design decisions that make bayonetta what it is. Which for those of you not keeping up is, the best action game ever made, more or less.

Yes, having it on two buttons is overkill, and yes perhaps one of them could have been relegated to a lock on button, but having an easily accessible dodge is not something worthy of his snarky "I don't understand their logic" reply to the doubling up. Perhaps the reason he doesn't understand is because he's generally clueless? Maybe the reason there's no lock on is because they're trying to ween people off of the relics of last generations poor game design decisions? Whatever.

He's so off base about everything it makes me laugh. Like he writes off the scythe as being boring, weak and useless when virtually everyone I've talked to that likes these sort of games thinks it's awesome. He's mildly right about the axe being overpowered, but not in the way that he thinks.

The cutscenes are infact skippable. And it's some snark to complain about unskippable cut-scenes in bosses when favorably comparing to DMC4- which is filled with Nero's lengthy, unskippable grapple moves/finishers during boss fights that do awesome damage and give you awesome grade. Bleh.

He then goes to talk about how the mechanics need to be improved, whilst not mentioning why or how

He then states the game is nothing like devil may cry, atop great looking combo footage that looks about devil may cry

He then goes to just ramble on about the legacy of the series, treating three like jesus whilst ignoring the fact the games bone crushing difficulty and obtuse mechanics made it impetenertrable on release to many, and that it actually had a pretty mixed reception.

Hell, he's talking about the style switching in 4 like it was actually well thought out instead of an awkward shoed in mechanic from three. Why could the Trickster style be integrated into a dedicated dodge button ( like bayonetta), why couldn't swordmaster's moves be put into the normal rotation of moves (like bayonetta) Why is aerial rave exclusive to swordmaster? (unlike bayonetta) Why isn't gunmaster's moves available always as well? (like bayonetta?) Hell, every single DMC style is integrated, more or less entirely into Bayonetta without the need of dedicated switching styles, because, unlike DMC4 it was designed by competant staff as opposed to a bunch of hacks coasting off of the work of a genius.

Fuck. I just got to the bit at about 10 minutes where he's asking rhetorical questions and now I want to shoot myself or reach into my monitor and strangle him

How does the dude in this video get though an entire clip like this without even mentioning Bayonetta once? How can anyone who allegedly knows enough about, or plays enough games in this genre to make a video dissecting a new release get through a comparison video without drawing a single one towards the masterpiece, the perfection of the gameplay systems DMC1-3 were building up to? I'm honestly baffled. If you're doing any kind of look into the mechanics of the stylish action surely you have to have played it once. It's almost irresistible to mention it.

And then I saw it at the end, when he mentioned megaman legends, resident evil, metroid, star wars, fzero, chrono break, god hand 2 and 2d Zelda. he's just a dumbass band-wagoner trying to score views for his channel, based of 5 minutes of researching by reading forum posts and e drama. disgusting. Manipulative.

TL;DR- Play Bayonetta. for whatever reason.

[Carbo]

I want to point out that his point about "without lockon you can't have directional inputs for your moves" is completely horseshit. Seeing as Bayonetta, despite having a lockon button also allows you to use every single move in the game without using the lock on button. it makes use of both pauses, directional inputs, and two buttons to add more moves then pretty much every other devil may cry game put together.

It's also such a moot point considering by removing lock on (and adding the launcher button) you lose maybe... 4 moves total? I bet he couldn't even name the moves he's so shattered losing to begin with. It's a shallow pedantic thing to complain about.

Lock on is handy, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't use it, but the only time during bayonetta I bother to lock on is when i want a quick launcher. Which is usually be just holding it briefly as a modifier for my attacks... which is, oh my god. exactly like the demon angel stance system he hates! more or less! wow!

The only reason lock on is even such a big factor to begin with in DMC is the auto lock on systems in the old games sucked fucking ass. There's a reason Kamiya moved things like the launcher and other moves out of the lock on ghetto when he made Bayonetta- it's a hacky solution to the shitty auto targeting of the time. Lock on becomes far less necessary if you have a reliable intuitive auto lock-on system in place instead.

I think you're really nitpicking a detail within a larger picture, that being that how, in any possible way, does a game not benefit from a lock-on? Especially a third dimensional brawler? I remember you complained earlier about the launcher being reassigned to a dedicated button but it's mostly thanks to a dedicated lock-on that most of the moves have been reassigned to some less fluid options - but apart from that a lock-on is quintessential for movement, focus and strategy which he went through pretty well in his video.

I can go on about how I think the Stinger was pretty much perfect in usability but I think just debunking one vital aspect of the lock-on mechanics virtues in this type of game is not exactly disproving the case. Why in the world wouldn't you want a lock-on in this game?

And then I saw it at the end, when he mentioned megaman legends, resident evil, metroid, star wars, fzero, chrono break, god hand 2 and 2d Zelda. he's just a dumbass band-wagoner trying to score views for his channel, based of 5 minutes of researching by reading forum posts and e drama. disgusting. Manipulative.

You seriously don't think that part was made in jest? lmao

I think this is ironic coming from someone who doesn't like the game but chill out man.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

To be honest, I still have yet to play Bayonetta, so I'm guessing maybe I should play that first before trying this demo out to make a better judgement?

[Remy]

I think you're really nitpicking a detail within a larger picture, that being that how, in any possible way, does a game notbenefit from a lock-on? Especially a third dimensional brawler? I remember you complained earlier about the launcher being reassigned to a dedicated button but it's mostly thanks to a dedicated lock-on that most of the moves have been reassigned to some less fluid options - but apart from that a lock-on is quintessential for movement, focus and strategy which he went through pretty well in his video.

I can go on about how I think the Stinger was pretty much perfect in usability but I think just debunking one vital aspect of the lock-on mechanics virtues in this type of game is not exactly disproving the case. Why in the world wouldn't you want a lock-on in this game?

Yeah, pretty much I agree that the game could have a manual lock on and it would not hurt, and would even improve the game, I guess, but my point still stands. It's not such a vital core element of the game that the rest of the game automatically becomes shit without it.

You can still move, focus, and strategize in Bayonetta without using the hard lock because the soft lock system is just as good for those things due to the nature of the game. If anything, the thing that makes the soft lock somewhat annoying in DmC is the lack of any indication as to who you're targeting. If it had something like the former's lipstick indicator the game would be improved and I think you'd be hearing a lot less complaints- even if I don't think the situation is as bad as it's made out to be. It's not like they gutted lock on and didn't replace it with any alternative. Compare DMC4 without using lock on to DmC without lock on- they play completely differently and it's miles easier to manage in DmC.

It's not quintessential, because with decent auto lock on and character controls you can do just as well without using it- see, bayonetta.

Furthermore, can you imagine this how annoying this game would be if you had to hold down LB and like.... LT to lock on and hit someone with an angel weapon? Or LB-LT-RB to angel dodge? Christ.

The main thing that annoys me is that people feel the need to discuss how amazing manual lock on is as if it's some amazing core feature. It's a relic. It's a sometimes handy relic, but it's still mostly a relic that people have become accustomed too after years and years of gaming. If you want to talk about real issues with the game the Red/Blue guys are a valid concern considering how fucking annoying their auto parry is, as is the broken, way too easy grade system, and the super duper more overpowered than witch time Devil Dodge. Almost all the conversation I see around this game and it's changed mechanics seem to center around the lock on, and that gives me the shits.

So yeah, pretty much, would be okay if it was in, no big deal if it wasn't.

also also, you can do the stinger in Bayo, both with and without lock and while it is kind of a little hard to get used to after years of dmc muscle memory it works just as well.

and also also also the dedicated launcher/downer thing kind of grew on me after i had a few more tries at the demo. It kind of works having altitude changes on a dedicated button. I was initially annoy thinking it cut in on the move list- but I had forgotten DMC only has one attack button anyway, usually.

To be honest, I still have yet to play Bayonetta, so I'm guessing maybe I should play that first before trying this demo out to make a better judgement?

If you play Bayonetta every game after is going to appear inferior. Take that as you will.

[Dobkeratops]

Lock-on is as much as a relic as life indicators/bars. I can't fathom how someone would defend the removal of a feature that, while not essential, it's a staple of the genre and increases your toolset a lot. Isolating a single target from the rest, air juggling and juking it is pretty much DMC101 and it helps deal with the camera (traditionally horrible in 3D action games) so that your right thumb can be where it belongs: in the face buttons. I expect this mechanic on my DMC-type games just as much as I do expect devil triggers, bullet-time air stalls or style ratings.

Let's see.

Positives of having a manual lock-on button:

- Perfect focus on single targets of your choice. Want crowd control? Don't press it.

- Allows for directional sensitive inputs with little to zero margin of error, expanding the moveset

- Alleviates camera issues

Positives of not having a manual lock-on button:

- You can assign the button to something else (unused in DmC)

- ????

So, can you make a combo heavy game without it? Sure.

Will the game be significantly worse for it? Of course.

Why would you even do that? I HAVE NO CLUE.

(Do however note that this is just another thing DmC does wrong when it comes to being DMC, not the main reason)

[Remy]

. I can't fathom how someone would defend the removal of a feature that, while not essential, it's a staple of the genre and increases your toolset a lot. Isolating a single target from the rest, air juggling and juking it is pretty much DMC101 and it helps deal with the camera (traditionally horrible in 3D action games) so that your right thumb can be where it belongs: in the face buttons. I expect this mechanic on my DMC-type games just as much as I do expect devil triggers, bullet-time air stalls or style ratings.

Primarily arguing the point because I find it fun to play devil's advocate, lol but It's still far more interesting to talk about mechanics then complaining about Donte.

Positives of having a manual lock-on button:

- Perfect focus on single targets of your choice. Want crowd control? Don't press it.

- Allows for directional sensitive inputs with little to zero margin of error, expanding the moveset

- Alleviates camera issues

1. Would be good if the games followed it more often. Nero's Stinger equivalent is a crowd control move only usable during single target long on... for some reason

2. Would also be good if inputs weren't still relative to whatever direction you're facing at the time, and still inexplicably finicky when it comes to the <-, -> inputs.

3. Is true. When the camera focuses properly.

The camera doesn't really seem to be influenced much by the lock on in DMC 4- considering the game is primarily fixed camera angels that are awful and unmanageable no matter what you do. If it was particularly hard to isolate enemies in DmC I would probably agree with this, but the game still makes it almost too easy to style the fuck out of it's enemies... and the camera in DmC kind of ducks around and focuses on whatever you're closest too, and it seems extremely hard to hit the wrong target. Occasionaly shit is out of screen and out of focus but it usually only happens briefly.

And regarding the pros.

- You can assign the button to something else (unused in DmC)

- ????

There's also the other big plus, not having to worry about manual targeting and camera control means you can concentrate on the the actual game more, instead of having to switch targets. I know I like not having to deal with locking on .

Still, yeah having hard lock on would be fine, but it's not so bad without it. It's nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be. The game is not unplayable as a result.