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goodone121

change something in a Sonic game's story

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I would like you to change something small-to-moderate in a Sonic story.

I would have set one of Unleashed's "Temples of Gaia" on Angel Island.

It just seems a good place, being ancient and mystical. (Of course, Sonic would meet Knux).

The hub would be the Mystic Ruins, BTW.

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I would've made Eggman the final boss of Unleashed. I think Dark Gaia was a rather flat villain with no sign of a personality. So yeah.

Also, those implied death scenes from Shadow the Hedgehog? Those sucked. I'd have removed them. There should've been a "Help Eggman" ending honestly.

Metal would've never rebelled. He and Eggman are best as a team.

Eggman would get more character development all around.

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I would've made Eggman the final boss of Unleashed. I think Dark Gaia was a rather flat villain with no sign of a personality. So yeah.

Metal would've never rebelled. He and Eggman are best as a team.

Those would have turned it into shameless self promotion for Eggman at the cost of the story's themes and what it had set up from the very start.

And that just makes Metal Sonic an extension of Eggman and rather flat.

Gordo, do you base these decisions on what works for story and characterization, or how good they make Eggman look?

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Most of it has to do with developments around Shadow. The history of the ARK. When was Black Doom contacted, did GUN attack Shadow or the Biolizard, are the Chaos clones part of Project Shadow, and if Gerald's revenge was plotted after Maria's death then why was Shadow present on the ARK?

And so on with the inconsistencies.

Lastly, Shadow would never work for GUN, I'd give him something else to do. I mean, he's more the type to shoot back at the cops. And just because he's got questionable morality, he'd still probably never work for the guys that ordered him created and then killed the closest thing to family he had.

Let's not forget keeping him in storage for 50 years. Like Omega has something to complain about, Shadow was locked away for 50 years!

Edited by Badnikz

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SA2: Shadow dies. Unambiguously.

Heroes: Reveal that Metal was impersonating Eggman halfway through the story and rewrite the remaining half accordingly, including at least one fight against Metal Sonic (not as a giant junk monster, and ideally in his classic design rather than the goofy "Neo" one. In fact, ditch the Neo look entirely)

ShtH: (Assuming the SA2 one doesn't happen) Shadow turns out to be an android and/or there is also an evil side Last Story (ideally wherein Shadow still kicks Doom's ass, because seriously, fuck Doom)

'06: (assuming I can't just erase the game entirely) Blaze isn't in it. At all.

Rivals 1 and 2: Nega isn't in it. At all.

Zero Gravity: No alien business.

Unleashed: Eggman controls Dark Gaia up until the end; final boss is one of Eggman's machines combined with Dark Gaia's power.

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I would've liked if Blaze had Elise's role in '06 as the princess and vessel of the Iblis. Just let her be a fire badass and set it in her dimension so as not to fuck up the continuity of the Rush games.

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I would've made Eggman the final boss of Unleashed. I think Dark Gaia was a rather flat villain with no sign of a personality. So yeah.

Also, those implied death scenes from Shadow the Hedgehog? Those sucked. I'd have removed them. There should've been a "Help Eggman" ending honestly.

Metal would've never rebelled. He and Eggman are best as a team.

Eggman would get more character development all around.

Dude, if you had your way, he'd be the star of the whole damn series. -_-

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I'm surprised at how everybody's contributions would really have changed the stories and themes...it's really made me think about them and half of them I can't work out whether they're good or bad.

Most of my changes would probably be based around what would personally make me happy, not what I think would be best for storyline in general, because I think a lot of the time they got it right.

For instance, I wish Shadow had stayed dead and they maybe had little references to his memory, like the Shadow Androids and things like that...or even nothing at all. But thinking of how the games are now, I find it hard to imagine them without him. And this is even coming from someone who doesn't really like Shadow all that much. He just sorta...feels homey about the series now. I know that's a really childish way to look at it, but hey, that's me :P

I respect Sonic Team's choice to have no real, tightly-knit continuity, with the amount of characters and storylines we already have it's clear to see why they think it'd be too confusing for new players. And there's probably some other issues like rights to the stories of the old games and all that stuff... But I'm still a selfish person who'd like to see something like Sonic still wearing Chip's bracelet in a future game or something like that.

The only other actual storyline change I'd implement would be in Chronicles. I really don't like how they kinda ripped off Archie's storylines a little and brought back the Echidnas. I really found a lot of appeal in how Knuckles is (was) the last of his kind, the last reminant of an ancient culture and history that still impacts the world today through the Chaos Emeralds and stuff like that...I really liked their original storyline and I felt that Chronicles destroyed the feel of it for me. But then I STILL don't know if that game is canon or not (I tend to lean towards it just being a spin-off) so who knows. Great, now I'm gonna be thinking about this stuff for ages!

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Adventure 2: Shadow dies and never came back alive.

Shadow the Hedgehog: Turned out Shadow was a fake and committed suidice.

Sonic '06: NO ELISEXSONIC scenes. Makes me puke. =/

Unleashed: Eggman was the real main villain, Perfect Dark Gaia controlled by Eggman, and had Eggman's help into defeating Light Gaia (Chip) and Super Sonic.

Edited by Spicylicious

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Those would have turned it into shameless self promotion for Eggman at the cost of the story's themes and what it had set up from the very start.

And that just makes Metal Sonic an extension of Eggman and rather flat.

Gordo, do you base these decisions on what works for story and characterization, or how good they make Eggman look?

The theme of Heroes was Metal Sonic's betrayal? I thought it was teamwork. Thus, Metal and Eggman working as a team seems to fit far better than Metal Sonic going rogue.

I don't see the problem with Unleashed either. Dark Gaia was a roaring mindless monster, an almighty idiot typical of recent Sonic villains. If Eggman managed to amass control of the stupid beast, would it be any less relevant to the plot? I don't think so.

Story and characterization? Yes. Eggman has a personality, and Dark Gaia has "raaaawr i kill you." Metal Sonic could've still had a dynamic personality as a loyal accomplice to Eggman's plans, and fit the aforementioned "teamwork" theme.

I think my suggestions are entirely justified based on this, without a trace of fan bias. (Not to say I don't have fan bias, but these suggestions stand on their own without it)

Dude, if you had your way, he'd be the star of the whole damn series. -_-

No, but he'd at least be more prominent in it, like the founding major character he is... And he'd get his own game too, but that's going on a tangent from this topic.

Edited by El Gran Gordo

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I would've liked if Blaze had Elise's role in '06 as the princess and vessel of the Iblis. Just let her be a fire badass and set it in her dimension so as not to fuck up the continuity of the Rush games.

Hah. Yeah. with some tweaks the entirety of 06 could have been Blaze's origin story.

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well of course. A LOT of tweaks.

Buuut there are a decent amount of SonicxBlaze shippers around *MAULED*

Also I wish Dark Gaia had at least been sentient. Even Chaos had more will power than that ugly beast in Unleashed.

Unleashed also would have had Nack the Werehog Hunter :P

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Ideally: Much like removing an infected part of someone's intestine, I'd cut out everything post Sonic 3K and pick up from there. The otherworldly nature of the Chaos Emeralds has been removed via explanation, replication, and then another, different, explanation. Much like in the ABC shows, Sonic's characterization has been boiled down to "likes chili dogs". I don't know what they were going for, but it strikes me as an attempt to pander to old fans without actually making a game that appeals to them for it's gameplay (Hai guz, SOnics got a chlie dog, ani't it just like oald tiems? C: -Sega ). I would re introduce Shadow, except I can't think of a way to finish the sentence "Shadow's not a terrible character because..." I only thought about it because he's been rather amusing in Sonic Universe lately.

I don't want to wipe out Night of the Werehog, though. It's the best thing to be associated with Sonic since '99. So...

SA2: Gone.

Sonic Heroes becomes Chaotix 2. Espio remains a hot blooded berserker (not quite as hot blooded as Kamina from Gurren Lagann), Vector remains actually looking like a crocodile, but I don't think they changed Charmy much. Not sure what to do with Mighty. Good ending revels Sonic was wearing hair (quill?) extensions and green colored contacts, revealed in a similar fashion to those extra videos in Unleashed. Actually, everyone was wearing contacts as well, but none of them fit right, so they blurred their vision, so none of them know that anyone else was wearing them. They are never seen again. Yes, I hate the green eyes that much.

They actually call him Robotnik once in a while. It doesn't matter if that's his real name if no one ever says it.

ShtH: Gone

06: Gone

Sonic Unleashed: In Adabat's temple, the voice does not tell him he is Light Gaia, it's exact words are "You're just the moderately annoying tutorial character. Now go tell Sonic where the last level is". Chaos Emeralds have nothing to do restoring the Planet, but they have that capability. In fact, that's Professor Pickle's exact words. In fact, those are his only words, most cut scenes have no spoken lines, like "Night of the Werehog". Dark Gaia was created by Eggman's lazor gun. Werehog is activated not by night, but by being near one of the temples. The Werehog is essentially a special stage. The "Got an Emerald" sfx is Canonically played (as in, the characters hear it) when a chaos emerald is restored. Restoring the Chaos Emeralds is a more pressing matter than the planet (the peaces fall down on their own). Sonic develops an immunity to terrible gimmicks during his brush with lycanthropey. Eggman gets re inflated. It seems someone let all the air out of him (maybe Sonic pulled a prank on him?).

Editing this a bit: Shadow would be an unlockable character (not part of the storyline) in both versions. He might get a DLC mini story here and there (or just an unlockable "extra episode", I hate DLC). The tone of this story would be similar to what's been happening to him in Sonic Universe.

Edited by Phos

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The theme of Heroes was Metal Sonic's betrayal? I thought it was teamwork. Thus, Metal and Eggman working as a team seems to fit far better than Metal Sonic going rogue.

I was talking about Unleashed with the themes, but... fine, I'll play this game.

The power of teamwork is best shown when it goes up against its opposite. Having Metal Sonic forsake his maker and all others when Sonic overcomes him with the strength of himself and his companions provides a counterpoint; the idea of teamwork ends up defeating the idea of isolation.

Having them work together makes it a good and evil story.

But regardless. Your main objection to Metal Sonic's characterization is that it shows disrespect to Eggman. But when Metal Sonic is Eggman's servant, he's... he's EVERY SINGLE BADNIK EVER, just with a cooler metal shell. Metal's story in Heroes is about him trying to escape his limitations, become the ultimate robot, and put his rivalry with Sonic to rest.

It's confining and limiting to just make him Eggman's underling. How can he reach his full potential if he's just someone's slave?

I don't see the problem with Unleashed either. Dark Gaia was a roaring mindless monster, an almighty idiot typical of recent Sonic villains. If Eggman managed to amass control of the stupid beast, would it be any less relevant to the plot? I don't think so.

It's not always NECESSARY for something to be sentient. Frankly, storytelling structure does not ALWAYS advocate that every figure in a work has to be dynamic, personable entity. That's trite and overly traditional.

Dark Gaia was a force of nature. Part of the cycle of the planet's destruction and rebirth. Unleashed emphasizes this HEAVILY.

If Eggman were in complete control? They are not defeating a force of nature. They are defeating Eggman. That jives on the entire idea.

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But when Metal Sonic is Eggman's servant, he's... he's EVERY SINGLE BADNIK EVER, just with a cooler metal shell. Metal's story in Heroes is about him trying to escape his limitations, become the ultimate robot, and put his rivalry with Sonic to rest.

It's confining and limiting to just make him Eggman's underling. How can he reach his full potential if he's just someone's slave?

We have no way of knowing that. Before Heroes, Metal's entire characterization was conveyed through mime, like everyone else.

He could've been introduced as a sentient loyal character, much like SA-55("Ergo") in Unleashed was(Not to mention Captain Whisker and his crew, who were also dynamic characters with colorful personalities). They managed to be distinctly non-robotic robots, and worked for Eggman. I don't see why Metal Sonic can't be sentient and loyal at the same time. It's not like betrayal was the only way to give him a personality.

This also goes under the implication that Eggman sees his robots as slaves. I won't argue too much on this, but remember Sonic Adventure, Eggman says "I'm proud of you, Gamma!" See, he respects his robots. You don't praise people you consider your slaves, you praise people you respect on some level.

Edited by El Gran Gordo

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Sonic Heroes

Shadow should have crushed Omega right then and there. Then I wouldn’t have to put up with all this “Omega can defeat Shadow in the future” stuff. I’d like to see Omega do that.

Unleashed also would have had Nack the Werehog Hunter :P

That would have been cool too. Off all the retro characters, I think Nack has the best shot at making a comeback. I’d have him as a side villain in a heartbeat.

Buuut there are a decent amount of SonicxBlaze shippers around *MAULED*

*Shifty eyes*

Yes we are everywhere…..

Wait, did I just say we?? :P

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I think it's implied that the Chaos Emeralds are also sort of a force of nature. Extra Dimentional Nature, no less.

E: ninja'd. This post is directed at Razorsaw.

E some more: Hmmm. The Werewolf hunter is an idea I had a few months before SU shipped. I was imagining some kind of Hoss Delgado kind of thing, though.

Edited by Phos

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Okay?

Point being, that Eggman's plans rather consistently employ the use of, or involve attaining, these forces of nature. Dark Gaia is, for all intents and purposes, a big ugly snarling power source of comparable use to the Emeralds, with the inconvenient addition of extremely mild self-awareness(Presuming it had even that).

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1. Rewrite EVERY GAME (starting with little, minor, or NO madifications to Sonic1, Sonic2, or Sonic3&K, for starters) to that there's no even possibility of continuity errors. In fact, no cutscenes to drive the story along. Only the jumps to the next zone, like in Sonic3&K, are really necessary.

2. Limit the number of new characters. How many OLDER characters have vanished from the light of day? Mighty, Bean, Nack, Bark, Honey -- The list goes on. AND THEN NEWER CHARACTERS? Give us a break, Sega! You make it seem like it's normal to the Sonic universe to have so many "anthros" runnin' around! Recycle or replace older characters! Simple as that!

3. Erase:

- Sonic Next Gen

- any Sonic game that has little or nothing to do with the actual development of the main cast of characters (Sonic Labyrinth, the Sonic Riders series, ETfreakin'C)

- the characters that are only there for certain consequential events (Silver, the Babylon Rogues, Bomb and Heavy, Marine even?)

4. NEVER MAKE A 'SONIC X'-BASED GAME. That would be official suicide.

5. Make Amy more freakin' mature.

6. Keep to the original formula. Speed, Rings, spindash, loop-de-loops, Special Stages with Chaos Emeralds, Super Sonic transformations mid-level available after getting all 7 Emeralds. Stuff like that.

7. Keep the SPEED UP! Sonic's the main character, so speed is the priority!

8. Speaking of Chaos Emeralds, MAKE THEM THE ONLY MAGICAL ITEMS IN THE GAME. PLEASE!

9. Don't make Eggman an ally. It only means he can't focus on his goal. At the end of SA2, it looks like he parts from the rest on the best of terms. STUPID.

There, I'm done.

Edited by ChaosMiles07

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Point being, that Eggman's plans rather consistently employ the use of, or involve attaining, these forces of nature. Dark Gaia is, for all intents and purposes, a big ugly snarling power source of comparable use to the Emeralds, with the inconvenient addition of extremely mild self-awareness(Presuming it had even that).

A normally dormant power that's used consciously as a mortal as a tool doesn't fill the same role as a conscious, if unintelligent creature that destroys because it is cosmologically meant to.

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