change something in a Sonic game's story

[Phos]

Why would it be so hard for Sonic to beat Eggman if he was controlling Dark Gaia? He beat Dark Gaia when it was on it's own, it's not like it's Galactus or anything.

[JezMM]

1. Rewrite EVERY GAME (starting with little, minor, or NO madifications to Sonic1, Sonic2, or Sonic3&K, for starters) to that there's no even possibility of continuity errors. In fact, no cutscenes to drive the story along. Only the jumps to the next zone, like in Sonic3&K, are really necessary.

I can't imagine anything more boring. You really think every game should be just Sonic running off to bop Eggman? This time it's in a city, this time it's in the ARK... this time it's in the sky, and this time it's in EggmanLand... and yet...***

2. Limit the number of new characters. How many OLDER characters have vanished from the light of day? Mighty, Bean, Nack, Bark, Honey -- The list goes on. AND THEN NEWER CHARACTERS? Give us a break, Sega! You make it seem like it's normal to the Sonic universe to have so many "anthros" runnin' around! Recycle or replace older characters! Simple as that!

It is normal for the Sonic universe to have so many anthros running around, yes. There still isn't THAT many anyway.

3. Erase:

- Sonic Next Gen

- any Sonic game that has little or nothing to do with the actual development of the main cast of characters (Sonic Labyrinth, the Sonic Riders series, ETfreakin'C)

***...continuing answer to point 1, and yet here you think character development is important. How can do you that with just transistions from zone to zone? And besides, Sonic Riders had a fair bit of character development, or at least showing off the personalities of the heroes more in all the little incidental cut-scenes. Especially Amy and Eggman in Riders ZG.

- the characters that are only there for certain consequential events (Silver, the Babylon Rogues, Bomb and Heavy, Marine even?)

4. NEVER MAKE A 'SONIC X'-BASED GAME. That would be official suicide.

5. Make Amy more freakin' mature.

She's not meant to be that mature. She's 12. That's just throwing away her established character. It's like saying "I don't like Shadow being serious. Make him more fun." just because you don't like seriousness.

6. Keep to the original formula. Speed, Rings, spindash, loop-de-loops, Special Stages with Chaos Emeralds, Super Sonic transformations mid-level available after getting all 7 Emeralds. Stuff like that.

Most of that stuff still exists. In fact, Super Sonic in levels is the only one yet to be intergrated into any of the modern games.

7. Keep the SPEED UP! Sonic's the main character, so speed is the priority!

...They are? lol

8. Speaking of Chaos Emeralds, MAKE THEM THE ONLY MAGICAL ITEMS IN THE GAME. PLEASE!

Again, they always are. Secret Rings and Zero Gravity were rare exceptions.

9. Don't make Eggman an ally. It only means he can't focus on his goal. At the end of SA2, it looks like he parts from the rest on the best of terms. STUPID.

Eggman isn't evil. Just a bit self-centered and powerful. After such an emotion evoking event of his Grandfather trying to destroy the world and him remembering his childhood, of course he's going to get a little soppy and care not for Sonic for a little bit. He's a person, he has emotions.

There, I'm done.

^ Added my thoughts in quotes. Though my overall thought is why not just play the old games more?

I can only think of one thing I'd change at the moment personally. I can deal with Eggman being upstaged again in Unleashed, but I wish he had yelled "NOT AGAAAAAIN..." instead of "WHY MEEE..." when he did get betrayed. At least give me the comfort of Sonic Team being knowledegable of it and being able to parody themselves a little bit due to it becoming so formulaic.

Edited March 6, 2009 by JezMM

[Ryusuke]

The one thing I won't change is the episodic nature of the series. What I would change though, is that I bring the edginess of Sonic in Black Knight to the other games. The Shadow we know is simply a clone. Chaos Emeralds won't be the deus ex machina of the day. Sonic 06 didn't happen...techinically it never did canonically. Eggman won't constantly being staged by the monster of the week. Yadda ....yadda...yadda.

[ChaosMiles07]

-deleted-

Edited March 6, 2009 by ChaosMiles07

[Tyranno]

Why would it be so hard for Sonic to beat Eggman if he was controlling Dark Gaia? He beat Dark Gaia when it was on it's own, it's not like it's Galactus or anything.

It's not a matter of how easy it is, it's a matter of how it's done and in what manner.

[Thirsty Pocket]

I would have Mephiles be a puppet to Eggman.

I really think, that for once, the "monster of the month" character really should be upstaged by Dr.Robotnik.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Lando The Bat

[Phos]

It's not a matter of how easy it is, it's a matter of how it's done and in what manner.

Ok, I though you were claiming that Super Sonic couldn't beat Dark Gaia if Eggman were still in control of him (or something like that). If you want the enemy to be a force of nature, isn't that basically like the disaster movies that permeated the 90's? It didn't make sense when they tried to make tornado's the villain in Twister, saying that the villain is "bad weather" is kind of lame, and I definitely don't want an animal cracker scene!

[SuperLink]

Change something? I know Sonc 2006 never happened, but it made the horrible mistake of introducing Silver, and royally fucking up Blaze's storyline.

FIX BLAZE'S STORYLINE.

Other than that, I'd have made Shadow an android, left him dead, or not given him as big a part as he has now.

Ah screw it, to be honest I like that Shadow is still around, and I don't know why; but he seriously needs less emphasis.

GIVE TAILS MORE STORY EMPHASIS.

EDIT: And get rid of any Super that isn't Sonic.

Edited March 6, 2009 by SuperLink

[ChaosMiles07]

And get rid of any Super that isn't Sonic.

And all other Sonic forms. There can only be two: Sonic and Super Sonic.

Well, maybe Hyper Sonic can stay... but no more Werehog/idiot transformations, please?

[SuperLink]

Meh, I hate Hyper Sonic. He's non canon anyway IMO. Werehog's not a problem, since he's not all powerful or anything. Darkspine Sonic looks pretty cool, and he'll easily never appear again.

[Tyranno]

Ok, I though you were claiming that Super Sonic couldn't beat Dark Gaia if Eggman were still in control of him (or something like that). If you want the enemy to be a force of nature, isn't that basically like the disaster movies that permeated the 90's? It didn't make sense when they tried to make tornado's the villain in Twister, saying that the villain is "bad weather" is kind of lame, and I definitely don't want an animal cracker scene!

There's a huge difference between a mystical creature that's part of a cosmic cycle and smacking science around with a bat and making movies like "Twister" and "The Day After Tomorrow" where nature seemingly develops a mind of its own and destroys stuff.

Monsters like Dark Gaia also have a mythological tradition in and of themselves.

[AdventChild]

SA2 - Shadow dies and stays dead. End of story.

Sonic Heroes and other Sonic game with Knuckles - Give a reason why Knuckles isn't guarding the ME.

Sonic '06 - No humanxhedgehog relationship, just please.

[123654]

The characters and writing in Heroes would be improved. I'd give anything for them to go back and make the dialog and story better. Heroes actually had an OK story, but the terrible script made it suck.

I can only think of one thing I'd change at the moment personally. I can deal with Eggman being upstaged again in Unleashed, but I wish he had yelled "NOT AGAAAAAIN..." instead of "WHY MEEE..." when he did get betrayed. At least give me the comfort of Sonic Team being knowledegable of it and being able to parody themselves a little bit due to it becoming so formulaic.

That would have been great. I think Sonic games need to have more self-deprecating humor.

[Lukar]

Make all endings of Shadow involve Eggman dying. Kidding.

As much as I think Eggman is good-yet-annoying, the next main game needs to take something from Shadow (Partially) and Black Knight and make the main villains NOT involve Eggman in ANY way, shape, or form. Make him have a more minor role for once.

Oh, and fix the messed up plot that came up after Rush and '06.

[Dr. Mechano]

As much as I think Eggman is good-yet-annoying, the next main game needs to take something from Shadow (Partially) and Black Knight and make the main villains NOT involve Eggman in ANY way, shape, or form. Make him have a more minor role for once.

For once? He's had minor roles a lot lately.

If anything, he's just begging to be the main villain in a 3D title, as he's yet to do this.

[123654]

I'd like to see Eggman Nega in a 3D game. I actually like him better than Eggman. Just because of his gray beard and costume, mostly. lol

But Eggman needs a major role. I am sort of tired of seeing him pushed to the side.

[Diogenes]

As much as I think Eggman is good-yet-annoying, the next main game needs to take something from Shadow (Partially) and Black Knight and make the main villains NOT involve Eggman in ANY way, shape, or form. Make him have a more minor role for once.

I'm with Gordo; Eggy's been on the short end of the stick often enough. If you really need a "for once", he's got nothing to do with the plot in Rings and he doesn't show up in SatBK at all, so problem solved.

Myself, I wouldn't mind the occasional game without Eggman being important, but they really need to start giving him what he deserves first. He's been upstaged by other villains/monsters far too many times, and is very rarely the one who's actually in control.

[SuperStingray]

The theme of Heroes was Metal Sonic's betrayal? I thought it was teamwork. Thus, Metal and Eggman working as a team seems to fit far better than Metal Sonic going rogue.

Metal Sonic could've still had a dynamic personality as a loyal accomplice to Eggman's plans, and fit the aforementioned "teamwork" theme.

Perhaps. But I still think Metal Sonic's betrayal is both an extension of his own character as well as Eggman's. You could really see how Eggman was genuinely disappointed that Metal Sonic betrayed him when he was talking to Chaotix, he wasn't just mad. Plus, along with Gamma and Omega, it shows that Eggman doesn't seem to have a problem with programming his robots to be able to mutiny.

I don't see the problem with Unleashed either. Dark Gaia was a roaring mindless monster, an almighty idiot typical of recent Sonic villains. If Eggman managed to amass control of the stupid beast, would it be any less relevant to the plot? I don't think so.

Story and characterization? Yes. Eggman has a personality, and Dark Gaia has "raaaawr i kill you."

The only other "almighty idiot" the series really ever had when you think about it was Iblis. Chaos had development. Biolizard had control and presence on behalf of Eggman's grandfather, Metal Sonic, as stated, showed character in Heroes. Black Doom, though cliched and just sucky, had an important role. And Mephiles was a magnificent foil for Shadow, as I explained in a long post I made (before the server got amnesia).

And in the end, Final Boss =/= Main Villain. As Paper Mario: TTYD, Halo 3 and Half-Life, among others, show, whoever you fight last is not necessarily the antagonist. Even if he was pushed aside by Dark Gaia, he's STILL respectable through the story and he STILL is a prominent and well developed character. If anything, this getting knocked aside was good for his character because, as the last scene with him and Ergo showed, he's realized that the plan flopped because of his "leaping before looking" actions. Or at least Ergo tried to tell him so.

[Diogenes]

And in the end, Final Boss =/= Main Villain. As Paper Mario: TTYD, Halo 3 and Half-Life, among others, show, whoever you fight last is not necessarily the antagonist.

Even considering this, Eggman gets kicked around far more often than not. He was in full control for most of SA, but beyond that? SA2, spent the whole story being manipulated by Shadow who had been manipulated by Gerald. Heroes, locked in a closet the whole game. ShtH, he's barely even relevant. '06, he's only really important to one of the three stories, and Unleashed, he's only important during the day, which is significantly shorter than the night.

[SuperStingray]

Even considering this, Eggman gets kicked around far more often than not. He was in full control for most of SA, but beyond that? SA2, spent the whole story being manipulated by Shadow who had been manipulated by Gerald. Heroes, locked in a closet the whole game. ShtH, he's barely even relevant. '06, he's only really important to one of the three stories, and Unleashed, he's only important during the day, which is significantly shorter than the night.

I can see what you mean for Heroes and Shadow, but I don't see how relevance to the story equates to being "kicked around." And as for SA2, he was really in full control, even to the end. Shadow gave him the tools for conquest, but Eggman really carried out everything. And even though Gerald may have been the "mastermind," Eggman was still the leader when they were heading to the cannon's core.

That said, I do indeed want to see him as a more relevant character. As much as I like many other characters and the last thing I wish is for them to be abandoned, I'd really like to see a game or two with just him and Sonic.

Edited March 7, 2009 by SuperStingray

[Dr. Mechano]

SA2 is a game I won't complain about because they developed his character so much. He didn't need to be the villain because, in the end, he was one of the heroes for that particular game. The game expanded his personality and delved so far into his inner motives that it stands alone as a great focus game for him.

Which to me is what it's all about. I don't care if Eggman's the main villain or not, though that role IS good for him getting lots of focus. Whether he's the antagonist, protagonist, or something else, as long as he gets decent screentime, and is portrayed as a deep, interesting, and humorously charming character, I'll love the role.

Unleashed did that well enough, though I still think Dark Gaia was a rather cheap villain who deprived Eggman of what could've been a very plausible main villain role. Maybe next time, I guess.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

First off, I would keep the whole Classic Trio cast from EVER happening.

SA2: Shadow's "death" stays the same, because I can't help but think that Sonic Team was trying to toy with our minds about that "death" scene. (It was a flash of light at the end. If it wasn't, there wouldn't have been anything ambiguous with his death.)

Sonic Heroes: better plot. One without Team Sonic's cheesy lines of TeaMWuRK! And have a scene that actually shows Shadow's survival of his "death" in SA2.

ShTH: Since Heroes would cover Shadow's survival, everything about the whole Black Arms ordeal - gone. That was seriously unnecessary and junky.

Sonic 06:...Less stating the obvious and better writing. Everything else (non-gameplaywise) is okay. Seriously folks, if you think the Sonic x Elise kissing scene was bad, look on the bright side: at least it wasn't a frog she kissed *hint hint*.

Sonic Unleashed: Let's have Eggman actually CONTROL the goddamned beast this time, or atleast give the monster a week thing a break for a long while.

Aside from that, it's good for me.

[Reading]

The foremost gripe I have with some recent Sonic stories is that they're not explained enough. Where did Solaris come from in the first place, and why was he/Mephiles trying to destroy the world, anyway? Elise sort of touches on this when she mentions Solaris and explains the royal family of Soleanna were told that "his wrath would destroy the world", but it would be much more interesting if it was explained how the royal family came into possession of the Flame of Solaris, and who gave it to them, and how that person knew about it, etc. I think it could've made for a more interesting and epic plot.

Of course, I'm a writer, so I naturally lean toward the story aspect of games. I'd give each Sonic game a distinct and more complex plot of its own, instead of having Eggman trying to activate this...well, I don't think it needs to be said again. I don't like to use the same villain multiple times, but Eggman's pretty much a staple of the Sonic diet, so I'd keep him for some games but invent my own villains for others. Of course, now it's just another If I Ran The Franchise...

Even more than the plots, however, I would rigorously improve the quality of writing in the cutscenes and events. Sonic Unleashed did a better job of injecting some personality and life into the characters instead of "Go to this place at this time." "OK." with an occasional attitude-y remark from Sonic just to lighten the mood.

[SchemingMinor]

Sonic 06': I would incorporate an epic plot twist. For once, Robotnik is sick of being overthrown by the "monster of the week" and takes matters into his own hands.

*gasp* You get to fight as Robotnik doling out the punishment against that Solarius beast. In full super form. He's not gonna take it anymore. Nope.

Could work for any of the then and future Sonic games with the monster stigma.

Sonic Unleashed: Take out the Werehog, Chip, Dark Gaia. Make it just plain Sonic vs. Robotnik. Gooooood nostalgia. When was the last time we had a plain Sonic/Robotnik game without any other villain or cheesy plot device in the way?

But then you wouldn't have Unleashed, would you? That just defeats the purpose, though.

Sonic Heroes: Change the godawful lines. That's all.

[-Mark-]

Shadow stayed dead in SA2 and Shadow the Hedgehog didn't happen.

Seriously, I still sort of find it hard to believe that that plot is actually canon, even three years on.