Where do you think Sonic should go from here?

[Gamenerd]

Some of you may not like it, but Sonic has a style of gameplay that is, by the looks of it, here to stay. Whilst there has been variations on the formula, Sonic has been pretty consistent recently; Rush, Rush Adventure, Unleashed Daytime, and of course Colours all have a consistent style of gameplay, with some tweaks, and 3D sections in the latter two. Even Sonic 4, though some of you aren't fans of it, follows the kind of conventions that these games have been setting (bar a boost button), and between Colours and 4 we've been seeing the revival of old-school badniks and concepts. Some fans aren't happy with all this, but the one thing we know for sure is that Sonic is onto a winning formula - or at least, the best formula he's had since the Genesis days (or the Adventure games, if you really want to argue their case). He's also got the Riders games as a subseries but thats a story for another day.

Sonic's got something good and he's sticking to it. We can already predict that the next few Sonic games, other than the Sonic 4 episodes, will likely fall into the conventions of Colours; a mix of 2D and 3D gameplay, a mix of old and new in terms of ideas, and the kind of design philosophy that has been making Mario a success with his Galaxy and NSMB titles. This brings me to my next question:

What do YOU want to see Sonic do next?

Now that Sonic's got some groundwork to stand on, it's easier to make predictions and come up with ideas for where he's going next. A Colours sequel with even more Wisps? A game that uses the Unleashed/Colours gameplay with old levels implemented? Something new that takes advantage of one of Sonic's key traits but keeps the same engine? Or even, another installment in the ever-confusing "Nega/Sol/Future/Parallel/Blaze/Silver" saga? It's all up in the air. What kind of game do you personally want to see Sonic do next?

Maybe you want a Sonic game that focuses on music as a gameplay element, or one that has a new gimmick to replace the Wisps - after all, they are probably a one-time thing and in the next game, Sonic will need some new exploration gimmick or colourful idea to stop the formula going stale, as you guys seem to think Sonic 4 is (I love Sonic 4 myself, so let's leave arguments about that out of this topic).

Whatever your thoughts are for Sonic's progression as a franchise, concepts that SEGA should carry forward, or even specific game ideas, feel free to share. I will say one thing; don't let this thread deteriorate into "I want a REAL Sonic 4", "the Colours formula can fuck itself" or "COLOURS BUT WITH MORE LEVELS, CREAM AND SILVER AS PLAYABLE CHARACTERS AND A CHAO GARDEN".

Keep it classy, guys.

[Core]

Whatever your thoughts are for Sonic's progression as a franchise, concepts that SEGA should carry forward, or even specific game ideas, feel free to share. I will say one thing; don't let this thread deteriorate into "I want a REAL Sonic 4", "the Colours formula can fuck itself" or "COLOURS BUT WITH MORE LEVELS, CREAM AND SILVER AS PLAYABLE CHARACTERS AND A CHAO GARDEN".

That's probably a stupid question, but, what's wrong with those statements?

[Gamenerd]

That's probably a stupid question, but, what's wrong with those statements?

[speedduelist]

I want SA3. and another sonic colors styled (opinion could change if sonic colors level design fails).

because i like the adventure series and the classic games (such as sonic 3 and sonic 2).

sonic 4 is great, but its not sonic 3's sequel that is of course if sonic 4 episode 2 has some thing to say to convince me to change my mind...

just my opinion.

Edited October 27, 2010 by speedduelist

[Badnik Zero]

Well I recognize several good styles Sonic's had over the years. First it was classic, then Adventure, and now the boost style. Each of those has its stale iterations, so I hope the boost style doesn't go that way eventually. You know they'll run out of steam and start pulling crazy ideas out of hats or something. That would be bad.

It'd be nice if they tried to pull it together in a nice package while adding to it. I love the open worlds of the Adventures, I want something large like the Mystic Ruins hub again. The platforming's already making a return in Colors. Maybe if they decide to use alternate characters like Silver or Shadow again they'll use an open world, like the SA2 treasure stages. There was an idea I had when the 20th anniversary rumor surfaced about the collection of old levels. They could make a world tour style game like Unleashed, only instead of real places they would use areas from Sonic's best games across Sonic history. That's my fan dream right now and it'd be perfect for a landmark year like the 20th.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Dabnikz

[Icecoldfrieza]

I would like to see the next main series game involve more characters. I know there are people who prefer Sonic-only games, and that's fine. The thing is, we've had them for a while now. Secret Rings, Unleashed, Black Knight (for the most part), Sonic 4: Episode 1, and now Colors have all been Sonic-only games with relatively simple stories. Sega said they want to cater to as many parts of the fanbase as possible. But what about the part of the fanbase that wants more characters and a deeper story? It seems we aren't being accounted for.

I'd like to see Team Dark appear as part of the story, as well as the Chaotix. And I would like a story of the calibur of the Adventure series. I know for a fact that I'm not the only one who feels this way. How do I know? Look no further than the reception Free Riders is now getting. Many fans jumped for joy at the sight of Metal Sonic, Vector, and the fact that there are four stories instead of two. Heck, people jumped for joy at the announcement of a story mode!

The bottom line is, it has been far too long since we've had the side characters involved in the games. We haven't seen Shadow in a canon console game since Sonic 06, and since that game erased itself, the last time we really saw him was in his own game, five years ago! We've had plenty of Sonic-only games with light stories, now I believe its time for another Adventure-style game. As far as the gameplay goes, they can keep like Unleashed/Colors setup, but tweak it a tiny bit for the other characters.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Icecoldfrieza

[Carbo]

I want Sonic to take another risk.

And no, not a dumb "Shadow with Guns" risk or "Sonic with a Sword" risk. I want to see Sonic shake things up and innovate with something else instead of reusing old ideas. The Wisps in Sonic Colors was a welcome addition of such and it was a risk that works great. This was my main problem with Sonic 4, it was way too insecure and safe, using established ideas and gimmicks to score cheap points with the crowd.

I dont want another goddamn Sonic 3&K, or a Sonic Adventure. The reason they are good is because there's no other games like them. One could argue then that Colors is way too much like Unleashed but Unleashed relied on a game-consuming gimmick, and Colors builds a gimmick around that game which is not only optional but works alongside the gameplay that's supposed to make it good.

[Marcello]

I want a game with multiple characters and play styles. Sonic should be around the speed of the adventures. A story line that connects all of the characters stories at the end. Chao Garden would be cool.

A Sonic Adventure 3 with or without that name.

And no one better quote this post with a pic of the Sonic 06 cover. I will snap them.

Edited October 27, 2010 by MarcelloF

[Diogenes]

Although the Colors formula looks like a lot of fun (probably the best 3D Sonic since the Adventures, maybe the best 3D Sonic period), it's not quite a formula I want the series to settle into. For one thing, it's kind of patching up weak 3D design with a lot of 2D areas; I like the 2D, but they really, really need to figure out how to do 3D right instead of trying to hide from it. Also, where's the rolling? I don't press this point as hard as some people, but I really think bringing some sort of rolling back to the 3D games is going to benefit them. It's a fun thing to do! As a more immediate problem, unless the next game is Colors 2, they're going to need to come up with something to replace the wisps. Colors style isn't going to hold up well if you simply remove them, and they're obviously not something the series can just carry around forever. Ideally they can find something to add to the core gameplay that makes it viable (or almost so) on its own, rather than having to come up with a major gimmick for each and every game.

So my basic suggestions are, more 3D (and figure out how to make it work), bring back rolling, and patch up the gameplay so it stands on its own, without a major gimmick (rolling in itself may be enough for that, if it's done right).

Beyond "fixing" the gameplay, I'd like to see them start using multiple characters again. The right answer to a lot of the series' problems isn't "Sonic only" but "Sonic gameplay only". Have everyone use the same Sonic-styled base, with some tweaks to make them unique. And I'm not suggesting we jump right into '06 levels of character bloat; just bump the playables up to 2 or 3, and have a few others as NPCs. Run that for a bit, see if you can keep a handle on it, then maybe have the occasional Heroes-esque mega-get-together (with a format to match).

Storywise, I think Colors is something to stick with. I emphasize "think" as we don't really know how it'll be going; we've still only got the broad strokes. But between that and it likely following Unleashed more than any other game, there's a good chance it'll turn out well. The dialogue, from the snippets we've seen, seems pretty solid, and even occasionally funny (if a bit corny). The overall story seems to focus more on Eggman than some giant monster threat, which is something they've consistently managed to fail to do in the 3D games. And the overall tone is fairly light and cartoony, rather than the overdramatic schlock of '06. Depending on how things go, I might suggest they go a bit more serious than Colors...but that's something we're going to have to wait to see.

[BradAric]

It's just like I've always said: I think Sonic should continue releasing games like Sonic Tennis and Sonic Racing etc to keep the fans satiated and spend that time shaping a new Sonic title. There was a time when we got Sonic games as often as Call of Duty games. Don't do that: spend time building a solid game engine and spend tons of time testing for bugs.

I don't want just simple "Sonic Vs Eggman" or whatever, I want uniquely playable characters (but not new ones! Not yet anyway...just fix up the old ones a bit first) with Sonic '06 graphics but maybe SA2 gameplay. Better yet, I'd like to see them remake all the original Sonic levels in 3D with full HD and everything. Complete with areas that only Knuckles can get to by climbing or even digging, or areas that only Tails can get to by flying. Then maybe use the less-popular characters as skins. Like playing through Tails' story as Cream or Knuckles' as Rouge...and obviously Sonic's as Shadow.

[Gamenerd]

Although the Colors formula looks like a lot of fun (probably the best 3D Sonic since the Adventures, maybe the best 3D Sonic period), it's not quite a formula I want the series to settle into. For one thing, it's kind of patching up weak 3D design with a lot of 2D areas; I like the 2D, but they really, really need to figure out how to do 3D right instead of trying to hide from it. Also, where's the rolling? I don't press this point as hard as some people, but I really think bringing some sort of rolling back to the 3D games is going to benefit them. It's a fun thing to do! As a more immediate problem, unless the next game is Colors 2, they're going to need to come up with something to replace the wisps. Colors style isn't going to hold up well if you simply remove them, and they're obviously not something the series can just carry around forever. Ideally they can find something to add to the core gameplay that makes it viable (or almost so) on its own, rather than having to come up with a major gimmick for each and every game.

So my basic suggestions are, more 3D (and figure out how to make it work), bring back rolling, and patch up the gameplay so it stands on its own, without a major gimmick (rolling in itself may be enough for that, if it's done right).

[Core]

My main problem with Sonic Colors is that, from the look of it, the 3D sections mostly consist in running along a narrow, linear track. I miss the large areas that you had in Sonic Adventure's levels, for example. I would like a game with full 3D gameplay that relies a bit less on speed and a bit more on exploration and platforming.

I also miss the deep, epic stories full of characters. And I would enjoy multiple playable characters, as long as they're either optional or have a gameplay similar to Sonic's.

What saddens me is that, between Sonic 4 that's supposedly for older fans, Sonic Colors that's supposedly for younger fans, and Sonic Free Riders which is a racing spin-off, I feel like SEGA is ignoring people like me and will not try to cater to us.

[ArtFenix]

Core, i think we will see the game made for us on Sonic's 20th. I tend to think that there will be several playable characters, more 3D[at least i HOPE so] and more deep and/or epic storyline.

Of course i would be happy if that game will turn out to be Sonic adventure 3..

[Diogenes]

However the good money says that they WILL probably continue the Colours formula but with new gimmicks and powerups in each title. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though, as with each game they'll be able to improve the unsettling formula, as they apparently have between Unleashed and Colours.

[Mr.Isklue]

THAT.

[Marcello]

You want Sonic to swim in a big pile of money? Or you want him to have 3 nephews? Or him to have a rich old uncle?

[Kuzu]

Honestly Sonic can keep the Unleashed/Colors gameplay it works for him, so why tweak it? Its the other characters I want them to focus on, giving them their own play styles without drastically changing the dynamic of the game, something akin to Black Knight(Each character has their own moves, but general moves stay the same). Seeing how people seem to be fixated on the "Power Trio" they can start on Tails, and Knuckles and then work on characters like Amy, Shadow, and Rouge.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Shadic93

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I need to keep this as short as possible. I have a bad habit of going too far into detail and taking up a large portion of the page in a topic.

Although Colors/Unleashed's formula is a good safety net for the series as of now, I can't say that Colors/Unleashed formula is something I prefer either. Now I'd just be an ass to complain and say that it doesn't look fun, but I've always had this vision that Sonic could do more than that.

Gameplay-wise, I've always been a fan of games that gave you near-absolute freedom. I've always pictured Sonic working in a Sandbox style game, but the problem with that would be making an open world environment that produces the same charm that most fans here enjoy from the series. And given how different environments can be, it's even more work to try and keep them from becoming the same thing with just a different coat of pain.

A particularly worrisome environment for Sonic to be in would be those that are modeled off of modern cities. They're mostly what I like to call, boxes-and-walls as opposed to slopes, curves, ramps, and the stuff that you can really use the physics to your advantage. The most you could do in that type of environment would be to run and jump, and yes I know I simplified it more more than I should.

And given how this series tends to have a little bit more direction in their levels as opposed to just letting you loose around the place, that's another road block I find difficult to get over.

In terms of playable characters, I'm with Diogenes all the way for it the be "Sonic gameplay only" as opposed to just "Sonic only". And really, that's just the crux of the problem in this series in that it mostly opts for genre-roulette like set ups whenever it tries to utilize other characters. At the same time, we don't want to pull a Heroes where you play the same stages X times over depending on the number of characters playable. In addition to this, I'd want the cast of playable characters to be strictly mixed. That is, no more Team Sonic, Dark, or Chaotix. Instead of Sonic, Tails and Knuckles, I'd go for Sonic, Rouge, and Espio.

As for story, anything between Unleashed and the Adventures is suitable if we're talking the tone. As for the meat of the plot, while I'd like to have more Eggman being the main threat, I'd like the plot to try and be as fresh as possible each installment. If there's a similarity between the game's plots (you know, besides the obvious), you could have the characters reference that.

Really, I want things to be great, not only for me, but for other people so that they would enjoy playing it as well. Part of being a game designer is about making a game other people besides you will want to play. If it's just for yourself or a small group of people...well, do you really want me to comment what I think about that?

Edited October 27, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

In terms of playable characters, I'm with Diogenes all the way for it the be "Sonic gameplay only" as opposed to just "Sonic only". And really, that's just the crux of the problem in this series in that it mostly opts for genre-roulette like set ups whenever it tries to utilize other characters. At the same time, we don't want to pull a Heroes where you play the same stages X times over depending on the number of characters playable. In addition to this, I'd want the cast of playable characters to be strictly mixed. That is, no more Team Sonic, Dark, or Chaotix. Instead of Sonic, Tails and Knuckles, I'd go for Sonic, Rouge, and Espio.

[Ebby]

I LOVE what they're doing in the series. The 3D/2D transitions work very well for me and I think boosting is one of the best things to ever be included in Sonic's rather lengthy list of moves. I just hope they keep the formula going!

[Mangoaxe5]

I kind of want them to return to the style, and mood of the Sonic Adventure games. I prefered there mood, gameplay, and storytelling.

I really don't want Sonic games to have kiddy storylines(It's not that I hate kiddy storylines, but I feel that kiddy storylines work better for Mario then for Sonic).

As for playable character's I'm sick of Sonic being the only playable character. I want to be able to play as other characters like Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Rouge, and Shade(who needs to be in more games).

As for gameplay I want them to improve on the Sonic Adventure style of gameplay.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You can't expect them to never appear together again, besides they seem to be mixing it up in Free Riders.

[Gamenerd]

I don't think the existing gameplay is enough to support this, though. I figure, if you try to play Colors without the wisps, it's going to feel lacking. And it's not going to get any better if they repeat the same gameplay again, but without the wisps. It's certainly not impossible to make a gameplay style that doesn't need major gimmicks to work, but the Colors formula is not enough.

[Diogenes]

But it's not just the level design that matters. The abilities and controls of the character are a big factor, too.

I vaguely remember, some interview with Miyamoto or something of that sort, talking about Super Mario 64. It was something to the effect of, they put Mario in an empty room, and keep working on him until he's fun to play as even in an empty room. And I think that same sort of mentality carried on throughout the 3D Mario games, which is a big part of why Mario doesn't "need" anything to be fun in Galaxy; he's got his jumps, his walljump, his spin, and so on, and it's just fun to run and jump around, even in an empty room (of course, the level designs and powerups make it better, but they're working with that solid core, not on their own).

I think Colors' Sonic fails this "empty room" test, and hard. Even acknowledging that, with Mario and Sonic having two different goals, the test's not really accurate for him, I think the basic idea's still there. Colors Sonic, without the wisps, is lacking. And no amount of level design is going to change that; if it's going to be fixed, we need to add, remove, and change his abilities and how he plays.

[Aquaslash]

Everyone's pretty much said what I wanted to say. I'm tried of Sonic only. He's evidently perfected now, so it's time to perfect the other characters. As much as I can't stand him, I think it's only fair to start with Tails. He hasn't had good 3d gameplay since Sonic Adventure 1 (where he was arguably the best character in the game).

Also I have a shorykuen ready for anyone who says to drop any character. That solves nothing. Nothing at all.

I kind of want them to return to the style, and mood of the Sonic Adventure games. I prefered there mood, gameplay, and storytelling.

I really don't want Sonic games to have kiddy storylines(It's not that I hate kiddy storylines, but I feel that kiddy storylines work better for Mario then for Sonic).

FYI, Unleashed and Colors have the same mood as SA1

Edited October 27, 2010 by Aquaslash