Where do you think Sonic should go from here?

[Chooch]

I love the Unleashed/Colors formula for the 3D Sonic titles. With some tweaks and expansions here and there I think it'd be ideal for Sonic from here on out. I actually wrote/posted how I sort of visualize it in an older topic.

A - Jump/Homing Attack

B - Crouch/Stomp/Spin Dash

X - Boost

Y - Light Speed Dash

LT/RT - Sonic Drift

LB/RB - Quick Step/Change Target

Now to explain:

Homing Attack is back onto the A button because if there's one thing that Sonic Unleashed taught me, it's that boost and homing attack should not be on the same button. It's a recipe for disaster in most cases.

Another thing you'll notice is that I have Spin Dash mapped onto the same button as crouch. That's because instead of doing an incredibly pointless breakdance kick when you tap the button in quick succession, you'll go into a Spin Dash. The Spin Dash has use because [in this hypothetical Unleashed-style title], you aren't invincible when you boost and can't just tear through everyone by running into them. You spin into them while boosting by pressing the crouch button once you build up enough speed. The more speed you have, the stronger the attack, etc.

Now, this may be hard to explain, but the boost button isn't exactly just a boost button. I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say that typically when Sonic reaches close to max speed he becomes a bit of a nuisance to control. I also think there's an issue with Sonic having too much momentum when he's simply walking. This is my idea help remedy that.

The boost button isn't just for increasing speed right then and there but it also regulates how fast Sonic will go. Sonic doesn't need to go really really fast all the time so when you're boosting and come to a part when you might need to slow down (or even screech to a halt) it becomes a problem in the current Sonic games. Take this example:

Say when you first start the level up you're running at a decent speed. Not max speed but pretty fast. If you want to let it all out and go crazy fast you tap the boost button. Need to slow down? Tap the boost button again. Basically, it puts on/releases a cap on how fast you can go. If you suddenly want to screech to a halt while boosting then you hold down the boost button and Sonic will try and slow down as quickly as he can. It's more of a 'Speed Regulation' button than anything, but Boost just sounds simpler.

Quick Step and Sonic Drift are pretty self-explanatory, but then there's the change target command mapped on to same buttons as Quick Step. Change target is specifically for homing attacking in the air. Homing attack may target the wrong enemy by default so those buttons are there to possibly help you if you're ever in that situation.

I also had an idea for a more combat oriented mode of sorts for stronger enemies that you wouldn't want to mindlessly homing attack a million times in order to kill them. Something you could toggle with a tap on the directional pad. Think Sonic Heroes' switching from speed to power formation but less.. terrible and button-mashy.

I also want a fucking Knuckles game. A Knuckles game with an amazing combat system. Make it happen, Sega.

[Aquaslash]

Oh derp, I forgot to mention!

You see how Sonic 4 brought Super Sonic back to the levels? You see how amazingly awesome it was?

KEEP DOING THAT.

[Cortez]

They should just replace the Wisps with shields that have different powers. The Mario series has used Caps, Water Nozzles and Mushrooms as it's gameplay gimmick before so it'd make sense for Sonic to use something a little more permanent as it's gameplay gimmick.

[Diogenes]

The boost button isn't just for increasing speed right then and there but it also regulates how fast Sonic will go. Sonic doesn't need to go really really fast all the time so when you're boosting and come to a part when you might need to slow down (or even screech to a halt) it becomes a problem in the current Sonic games. Take this example:

Say when you first start the level up you're running at a decent speed. Not max speed but pretty fast. If you want to let it all out and go crazy fast you tap the boost button. Need to slow down? Tap the boost button again. Basically, it puts on/releases a cap on how fast you can go. If you suddenly want to screech to a halt while boosting then you hold down the boost button and Sonic will try and slow down as quickly as he can. It's more of a 'Speed Regulation' button than anything, but Boost just sounds simpler.

I think I've shot down ideas like this in the past, but it's sounding surprisingly good to me right now...

Though, I think I'd do it a little different...maybe have holding down the button double* your acceleration and top speed, and when you release it above the normal top speed you'd slowly decelerate down to it. It doesn't offer anything in terms of quick stops, though...

*I'm aware that these are probably terrible values in practice, but it's just for the sake of explanation; they'd work out better values if they were making the game.

[Gamenerd]

You raise a good point about the "Empty Room test" Diogenes, and I'd definately like to see Sonic improved to the point where he'd pass such a test, but I simply imagine it'd be done with him over a course of games, slowly tweaking him each time, rather than starting from scratch after finally finding something that is working for Sonic.

And in his defense, not many video game characters ever will pass the Empty Room test - Mario is the exception, not the rule I can't name a single other character or protagonist or platformer hero that I could just shove in a room and have fun with, much less Sonic due to the fact that confining him to a box is pretty much the opposite of what he's all about. I do see where you're coming from though, and adding more dynamic moves to Sonic's disposal, as well as bringing back the much loved physics play that defined the older games to the formula that is in place at the moment could turn Sonic from "a return to form" to an absolute winner.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Gamenerd

[Diogenes]

Well, I wasn't meaning to imply they should start from scratch, either. Just that sticking too closely to the Colors formula can lead them to getting comfortable in that little nook; they need to have the balls to stick their necks out and make significant changes and not just little tweaks.

[batson]

I would really like Sega to go even further at trying to make a game in the vein of the classics. Sonic 4 was without a doubt a huge step in the right direction, but it still had some fundamental control and physics problems that prevented it from truly feeling like it belongs on the same shelf as Sonic 1, 2, 3.

Here is hoping this is what we will get in Sonic the Hedgehog 5!

However, i also have to agree with what many others here have said in that i would also love to see a new Sonic game with Adventure-style gameplay, many playable characters, and a deep story. It does seem like now that Sega has decided to split the brand into "games for 20-something year old nostalgia-fags who primarily wants their Sonic to be like he was in 1994" (no offense intended. I happen to be one of those myself ) and "games for little kiddies who needs simple storylines in order to comprehend it", the 1998-2006 era style of plot-heavy games seem to have been discontinued. And i guess the fact that basically the whole gaming world besides the fans have been screaming "Sonic games doesn't need a story!" practically since Sonic Adventure 1 might also have something to do with this...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I vaguely remember, some interview with Miyamoto or something of that sort, talking about Super Mario 64. It was something to the effect of, they put Mario in an empty room, and keep working on him until he's fun to play as even in an empty room.

[Kuzu]

Exactly. Sonic would work a lot better in an Open Field, than a room, because Sonic has enough space to do what he does best. I'm pretty sure a tweak to the Unleashed/Colors style would work it.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Shadic93

[Cuz]

Regardless of the size does Sonic really work in an empty anything? Isn't half the fun of the unleashed style of play in the level design? In a empty field all sonic can do is run circles, he has nothing to chain homing attacks and I imagine boosting to top speed would get old fast.

As for where I personally would like the series to go form here. As others have beaten me to, I would like Sega to work on deeper story lines, or was I the only one who felt Unleashed had a bare bones plot that failed to make the most of it's gimmick?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Regardless of the size does Sonic really work in an empty anything? Isn't half the fun of the unleashed style of play in the level design? In a empty field all sonic can do is run circles, he has nothing to chain homing attacks and I imagine boosting to top speed would get old fast.

That's not the point in the whole "Empty Field" idea. The point is to modify Sonic so that he is just as fun in an open field as he would be in one filled with loops, slopes, and other structures. If anything, it'll just make the latter additions even more fun to play around in.

[Gamenerd]

Well in my opinion, Sonic Adventure Sonic would've been closer to passing any sort of "empty ______" test, purely because he was actually easily maneuverable in a 3D space. The problem though comes with the transition from regular speed 3D to high speed 3D. In Sonic Adventure, Sonic was way too sensitive to control when he reached high speeds, with one flick of the control stick sending him flying. The opposite is true in Unleashed and presumably Colours, as Sonic looks to control in a floaty, slippy manner at low speeds in 3D, whereas at higher speeds he actually controls well and even has moves designed for handling his top speed.

Sonic works in 2D, which is why Sonic Colours is cited as being 70% 2D, but the problem of Sonic's 3D control hasn't been addressed fully. There needs to be a compromise, a graduation between the free control of Adventure at lower speeds and the racing car style of Unleashed's higher speeds. And obviously throw in some more acrobatic moves ala the wall jumps and so on.

[Chaos Walker]

I vaguely remember, some interview with Miyamoto or something of that sort, talking about Super Mario 64. It was something to the effect of, they put Mario in an empty room, and keep working on him until he's fun to play as even in an empty room. And I think that same sort of mentality carried on throughout the 3D Mario games, which is a big part of why Mario doesn't "need" anything to be fun in Galaxy; he's got his jumps, his walljump, his spin, and so on, and it's just fun to run and jump around, even in an empty room (of course, the level designs and powerups make it better, but they're working with that solid core, not on their own).

Thing is, Sonic wasn't made for just any empty room. Now some say he needs a field, and I get how you would come to that conclusion, but doesn't that just lead to race track levels? If sonic was designed to play well, in an empty anything, it's a sphere. You don't have to stop running, but the walls are still there to bounce off of, and you can "roll around the speed of sound" to attain even more incredibly rediculous speeds. Sonic NEEDS curved terrain to shine, as his main design concept was his ability to roll on it. Put Sonic in a square room, and you get Mario platforming clone #89478Q0091.

[Badnik Zero]

^ You beat me to it, man. Sonic's test room would be a round room. He's built for rolling. You know the part that has to do with being a hedgehog! Over time it's gone from a mechanic to a novelty, so now Sonic only balls up when it looks cool. Pink Wisp is a good example. Work out the issues with rolling in 3D, it's gotta be able to work.

Regardless of the size does Sonic really work in an empty anything? Isn't half the fun of the unleashed style of play in the level design? In a empty field all sonic can do is run circles, he has nothing to chain homing attacks and I imagine boosting to top speed would get old fast.

An open field is not an empty field. Mario 64 with everything removed would be a boring game. Sonic should ditch the goal style and try an objectives style for a game. It allows him open worlds, and you'd be zooming around, but you'd have different places in the level to go. I always compare it to a skate park (and Azukara disagrees).

Look at those curves. Take everything and go times ten for a surreal Sonic style. Much larger, longer drops, steeper hills, some floating platforms and loops, with a visual theme. Slap a few gimmicks and Badniks and spikes in there and I think you have an open world somewhere between Sonic R and Adventure. Which is where it belongs.

[Chaos Walker]

Oh, I just loved that picure so much, I had to make this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-B951LjTXU

[Kiberbot]

Speaking about retro, and SA. I liked the retro concept of Sonic only during my childhood. Then I grew up, and replaced this Retro Sonic with other hobbies. And after some time after that I fell in love with Sonic Adventure concept, it brought me back to an old passion, breathed new life into this franchise, returned my sympathy for it. Since then I am supporting SA concept, and don't care about retro at all.

Oh, and I hate Unleashed’s concept very much. So my choice is obvious.

My choice: Adventure type game. More playable characters, a deeper history, etc.

[Ferno]

I think some fans are raising the bar too high for what they want in an Adventure sequel...and you know what happens when Sega tries to reach bars of expectation raised by fans...

I just wanted an excuse to post that. XP

[Kuzu]

I think some fans are raising the bar too high for what they want in an Adventure sequel...and you know what happens when Sega tries to reach bars of expectation raised by fans...

I just wanted an excuse to post that. XP

[Gamenerd]

Alright, let's stir up some discussion here since Adventure 3 talk always gets stagnant fast.

If they were making a new game after Colours in the Colours style, but there WAS a new gimmick in the game to replace the Wisps, what would you want that gimmick to be? Where is the line drawn between helpful gimmick and hindering gimmick? Colours for the first time looks like a Sonic game where the gimmick actually ENHANCES gameplay rather than breaking it up, so where do you see SEGA going from there?

[Chaos Walker]

Assuming it's Sonic only, I suppose I would want to see a combination of the Mario Galaxy gravity gimmick, combined with the Sonic Extreme camera gimmick. With well crafted rolling physics, I think a game where all walls are floors, and every curved surface is usable, would be pretty fun to move around in. Sonic doesn't have to be in space, he could be in cyberspace, or Wonderland (storybook 3 anyone?), both of which lend themselves well to some simple powerups that allow Sonic to explore differently.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Chaos Walker

[Gamenerd]

Assuming it's Sonic only, I suppose I would want to see a combination of the Mario Galaxy gravity gimmick, combined with the Sonic Extreme camera gimmick. With well crafted rolling physics, I think a game where all walls are floors, and every curved surface is usable, would be pretty fun to move around in. Sonic doesn't have to be in space, he could be in cyberspace, or Wonderland (storybook 3 anyone?), both of which lend themselves well to some simple powerups that allow Sonic to explore differently.

Cyberspace, Wonderland, or the SPECIAL ZONE. ;D

I've had the same idea, actually. Put Sonic in crazy tripped out gravity levels. And to all those who would cry "Mario Galaxy ripoff"? Sonic's been doing that shit for years, guys. Check out Sonic 1's Special Stages. Then Death Egg S3K. Then Espio's wallwalking power in Chaotix. Then Sonic X-Treme, pretty much every space level since S3K, the sliding panels section of Lost World, every Special Stage since ever, Hang Castle of Sonic Heroes and of course, the beautiful walk-on-wall physics of Sonic Rush.

I think I've made my point enough right there, but yeah, Sonic was doing the funky gravity mumbo years before Mario did, so I see no reason why it can't be explored further.

[Chaos Walker]

I think I've made my point enough right there, but yeah, Sonic was doing the funky gravity mumbo years before Mario did, so I see no reason why it can't be explored further.

Who better to pull it off than character made to abuse physics?

[SuperClassic]

The Sonic Colors route, each game that comes out will have new levels obviously, throwbacks to previous titles, perhaps Tails and Knuckles playable eventually(But not with their crap gameplay styles in Adventure 2, just alternate characters, like in the classics), and this list also applies to the Handheld games, since Handhelds like the 3DS could probably handle Sonic unleashed PS2 with maybe some improved graphics(Not that I want Sonic Unleashed on the 3DS, just using a example).

[Vulpine]

God, as long as Disney leaves the Sonic franchise alone, everything is acceptable.

By the look of things, I am sure that the games will keep going through the Unleashed and Colors route since those two recent games did better then the rest, and SEGA has learned from their flaws by making the "Hedgehog Engine".

However, it would be nice to see a new Sonic anime show (that's a successor to Sonic X) that features Silver, Blaze, Marine and other characters from post-Heroes recent Sonic games, the new VAs voicing the characters, and a few new original characters that debut in the new show such as another fox (Hey, it's better then the annoyance known as Chris Thorndyke. Then again, Sonic X also introduced Cosmo, which was actually an interesting character).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

God, as long as Disney leaves the Sonic franchise alone, everything is acceptable.