Has Sonic fallen too far away from his orginal concept?

[Chaos Walker]

The fans always have something rant on don't we?

Okay, let's get it out of the way now. According to Sega, Sonic's gameplay suffered because they had to add a bunch of side stuff in order to lengthen the game. Therefore, as the emphasis on speed increased, and levels had to get longer, and Sonic Team was forced to make the side gameplay even more tedious, the pinnacle of which was the Werehog. Now they see that an emphasis on platforming also increases the lenght of the game. This is obviously a step in the right direction. In fact, it the most "back to roots" thing they've done in years, and they didn't even advertise it this time. Now in case you've never played a classic Sonic game, the main game mechanic of the first games was using speed and momentum to perform amazing platforming feats, which you could augment by rolling Sonic up in a ball.

Obviously, the rolling mechanic, which was originally one of Sonic's main abilities, on par with his speed, has fallen to the side as "a thing he can do. It's no more important than the way he runs, and in some games it's barely acknowledged at all. Sure, a return to this would be great, but it that possible now? As you can see in the videos above, Sonic has become something else. Where as the emphasis of his abilities was once flipping, spinning, and run up things, he now focuses on running fast, running hard, and going through things. Yes, this makes for a much "cooler" image, and the gameplay is suffering for it. Let's face it, we were lucky he ran on that one wall in the Unleashed cutscene.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Chaos Walker

[Diogenes]

I believe some of the classic mechanics and style (rolling included) can coexist just fine with some of the modern mechanics and style. It's just a matter of figuring out what works and what doesn't, and building a game around it.

[Gamenerd]

I guess Sonic has changed alot over the years, but I guess it's not necessarily in a bad way - I like his new Rush/Unleashed/Colours style of bullet-speed racing car gameplay. I would definately like to see a return to the speedy ball-form Sonic. They should use the Monkey Ball engine; any engine that can run both the Monkey Ball titles and F-Zero GX is an engine fit for running a physics based Sonic game.

[Chaos Walker]

I believe some of the classic mechanics and style (rolling included) can coexist just fine with some of the modern mechanics and style. It's just a matter of figuring out what works and what doesn't, and building a game around it.

That's what Sonic Team has been doing since SA2, and it's brought us here. Don't get me wrong, I think there's room for it too, it's just Sonic may have to change his image slightly to do it. If the modern, "too cool to stop running straight at you" Sonic did a spindash in a cutscene, it would seem incredibly of place. " Why didn't he just run through that guy? Or jump through his head and make him explode?"

Edited October 28, 2010 by Chaos Walker

[Diogenes]

Honestly I don't think anyone would mind. It's like a complete non-issue...

[voice]

Has the franchise fallen away from the original concept? Not really, at the core of it its still Eggman comes up with an evil plan and Sonic foils it, I haven't played all the games so forgive me if I missed one that deviates from this core concept. What has changed is everything around it from the art style, the music, the characters, and game play mechanics. Yeah they're trying to figure out what works and what doesn't but their success rate at this present time has got to be somewhere around 20%.

[batson]

Has the franchise fallen away from the original concept? Not really, at the core of it its still Eggman comes up with an evil plan and Sonic foils it

[voice]

Yeah well, that's just the core of the series narrative. This is just my opinion of course, but considering that the series is a platform game series (with minimal storyline in it's earliest installments), i hardly think one should consider any story aspect to be the defining trait of the series. The actual core of the series should probably be considered Sonic's speed and movements... which of course fluctuates so much between games these days that one could indeed say that the series has lost a lot of it's original concept...

[speedduelist]

sonic colors has explorations and platforming and speed. where Unleashed Day stages was more focused on Speed and Far less about platforming and barley with any explorations (Unleashed Exploration Concept : just don't boost to collect a Medal that you haven't noticed while boosting to Unlock New stages Finish the Story Line).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLvlPz54y1s&feature=related

So i think he really did go far from his original concept from the start of the 3D Sonic Games, Until Now. i think they finally got it in Sonic colors but for Some reasons in Sonic 4, they never got it...

but Now since Sonic is more focused on platforming and explorations (like the classics) in Sonic Colors with a good balance between both, they don't have to Create miles of stages just to See Him boosting and killing enemies with barley any platforming, Sonic team toke that in mind while Creating Sonic Colors. the Wisps which are optional are the ones that allows explorations for Red Rings, and their is a large focus on careful platforming and explorations.

The Only thing sonic could do in the classics is Spindash, Jump and Jump attack as far as i am aware, Spin dash allowed multiple paths and Special stages to Explore for or Power ups.

Sonic colors has Explorations that allows you to explore for Red rings which Unlocks certain features, and the wisps which are optional allows more variety of moves to Sonic even more than the classics.

Edited October 28, 2010 by speedduelist

[Chaos Walker]

sonic colors has explorations and platforming and speed. where Unleashed Day stages was more focused on Speed and Far less about platforming and barley with any explorations (Unleashed Exploration Concept : just don't boost to collect a Medal that you haven't noticed while boosting to Unlock New stages Finish the Story Line).

(Videos Were Here)

So i think he really did go far from his original concept from the start of the 3D Sonic Games, Until Now. i think they finally got it in Sonic colors but for Some reasons in Sonic 4, they never got it...

but Now since Sonic is more focused on platforming and explorations (like the classics) in Sonic Colors with a good balance between both, they don't have to Create miles of stages just to See Him boosting and killing enemies with barley any platforming, Sonic team toke that in mind while Creating Sonic Colors. the Wisps which are optional are the ones that allows explorations for Red Rings, and their is a large focus on careful platforming and explorations.

The Only thing sonic could do in the classics is Spindash, Jump and Jump attack as far as i am aware, Spin dash allowed multiple paths and Special stages to Explore for or Power ups.

Sonic colors has Explorations that allows you to explore for Red rings which Unlocks certain features, and the wisps which are optional allows more variety of moves to Sonic even more than the classics.

I think your right, Sonic really is getting back alot of the things he lost with colors. The final change would be replacing the wisps with Knuckles and Tails, and having the stages built a little more for spindash. Because let's face it, for the most part the wisps are a way of letting Sonic do all the things his friends would have done, without actually getting them involved. In other words, it's a sneaky way of bringing back characters with similar gameplay, plus an exploration mechanic. Or perhaps, it's the other way around, and Tails and Knuckles let us avoid giving Sonic convoluded power ups. Regardless, Colors is NOT a broken game. If this the direction Sonic is going, i'll take it. I'm almost starting to feel like rolling is just something for us Nostalgia fags, but then I wonder: Other than being blue and spikey, what seperates Sonic from other platformers and games heavy in QTEs? Colors proves we don't NEED rolling, but it certainly sets Sonic apart from other platformers.

[Tara]

(Videos)

Excuse me while I go off-topic a bit, but... OMG THAT LOOKS FUCKING AMAZING (is extremely late in all the news regarding Sonic Colors)! THE GRAPHICS, THE GAMEPLAY, THE ATMOSPHERE! EVERYTHING! OOOOOOH [/fanboygasm] - Ahem, my apologies. Just... @____________@

Anyway, to answer the topic's question, no I don't believe Sonic has fallen or has ever fallen too far from his original concept. The Spin Dash, for example, has always been just a boost anyway and if Sega put their minds to it, I'm sure they could make it work out in recent games too. My main problem with it not being in the recent 3D games is just the fact that it kind of defeats the purpose of Sonic being a hedgehog in the first place. Sonic is a hedgehog, therefore he rolls into balls; Mario is a plumber, therefore he navigates through pipes; Spyro is a dragon, therefore he breathes fire; Bugs Bunny is a rabbit, therefore he has an unhealthful obsession with carrots; Ray-Man is a... uh... well, you get the point.

[Rusty Spy]

Because let's face it, for the most part the wisps are a way of letting Sonic do all the things his friends would have done, without actually getting them involved. In other words, it's a sneaky way of bringing back characters with similar gameplay, plus an exploration mechanic.

Actually no. None of the wisp powers, sans possibly the drill, are really anything like what Knux and Tails were ever able to do, or are at least used in a completely different way.

As for the topic question, the only thing I really think has lost a lot of focus was the rolling/momentum aspect of the games. Aside from that, everything Colors is doing when it isn't trying to be Unleashed is right up there with core Sonic gameplay.

[Chaos Walker]

Actually no. None of the wisp powers, sans possibly the drill, are really anything like what Knux and Tails were ever able to do, or are at least used in a completely different way.

The point is that they allow Sonic to reach/ explore locations he could not before, much in the way Tail's flying and Knuckle's gliding/climbing did as well. And even then, I would argue that using the Orange or Green wisps works very much to the same ends as tail's flying, that is gaining altitude, just as the pink wisp allows you to destroy barriers and scale walls like Knuckles. Also, Knuckles was never able to use his digging to reach places that Sonic could not while playing through that level himself. In fact, he's never dug in the classics, advance, or heroes games.

[speedduelist]

I think your right, Sonic really is getting back alot of the things he lost with colors. The final change would be replacing the wisps with Knuckles and Tails, and having the stages built a little more for spindash. Because let's face it, for the most part the wisps are a way of letting Sonic do all the things his friends would have done, without actually getting them involved. In other words, it's a sneaky way of bringing back characters with similar gameplay, plus an exploration mechanic. Or perhaps, it's the other way around, and Tails and Knuckles let us avoid giving Sonic convoluded power ups. Regardless, Colors is NOT a broken game. If this the direction Sonic is going, i'll take it. I'm almost starting to feel like rolling is just something for us Nostalgia fags, but then I wonder: Other than being blue and spikey, what seperates Sonic from other platformers and games heavy in QTEs? Colors proves we don't NEED rolling, but it certainly sets Sonic apart from other platformers.

[Saint Nathan]

Original Concept: Sonic runs really really fast.

Modern Concept: Sonic runs really really really fast.

Honestly, the CD intro just kinda made me notice something too. Notice how Sonic is constantly stopping and starting, always moving but hardly moving fluidly. He's hopping between rocks and trees but he has to stop before he does it. Hell, he has to do this weird hopping thing on water.

Compare that to Unleashed. Sonic is fluid. He moves through and around objects and obstacles without having to stop. He's quicker on his feet, he's moving more easily, and his speed is obviously something he very much has in control. He's not using the environment to gain speed because he can do it on his own with ease and more fluidly.

It seems like a natural change, no?

Also, Colors is not just a giant red-spring, starlight zone fan, hydrocity pipe ramp fueled leap in the right direction, it's the best Sonic game we've had in years. In terms of basic gameplay compared to the classic games (1-3K) it's the damn closest we've gotten since Adventure 1.

He might have dangled a little, and he's just pulled himself back up, but he never fell.

[\Lennox]

Colors, I'm thinking as every sane Sonic fan's fangasm, while Sonic 4 was more of an aversion of hype towards old-time lovers.

[speedduelist]

Slower platforming and explorations were the basics of Sonic 1,3 and CD.

Sonic 2 how ever falls a bit with the balance between both aspects

i am happy because sonic colors brings the balance between platforming and explorations and speed.

although adventure sonic stages might have gotten platforming and speed aspects better (final judgment thought when colors comes out).

[Chaos Walker]

Honestly, the CD intro just kinda made me notice something too. Notice how Sonic is constantly stopping and starting, always moving but hardly moving fluidly. He's hopping between rocks and trees but he has to stop before he does it. Hell, he has to do this weird hopping thing on water.

Compare that to Unleashed. Sonic is fluid. He moves through and around objects and obstacles without having to stop. He's quicker on his feet, he's moving more easily, and his speed is obviously something he very much has in control. He's not using the environment to gain speed because he can do it on his own with ease and more fluidly.

I think it's been established that the whole point of brining back the slower platforming in Colors was because the pure speed focus was hurting the games. But the speed does feel good, and so it's been retained in just the right amount in Colors.

Original Concept: Sonic runs really really fast.

Modern Concept: Sonic runs really really really fast.

You missed the rolling. Sonic's ability to curl up into a ball and roll around was just as important as his speed when he was first conceptualized. Levels were designed assuming you were going to go fast AND abuse physics.

[Badnik Zero]

Agree. Becoming a ball was the main gameplay function that set Sonic apart from other platformers. Something so unique to the character shouldn't be ignored, even if we've found a suitable replacement. You know he's a hedgehog. That's what hedgehogs do! I find it hard to separate it from the character.

[batson]

Sonic's ability to curl up into a ball and roll around was just as important as his speed when he was first conceptualized. Levels were designed assuming you were going to go fast AND abuse physics.

Very true. Which is why Sega should ditch the damn boost button. It makes Sonic's iconic "build up speed, find a downward slope, roll into a ball and away you goooooo!!!"-thing completely irrelevant.

[Rusty Spy]

i don't think rolling and spin dash could work in 3d or even with 2.5d level design.

SA1 and 2 tip a hat to you.

It's not even a challenge. It's just like running, except you can't stop, and you keep going faster downhill. The only challenge is having control so that you don't careen off the level.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Black Spy

[speedduelist]

SA1 and 2 tip a hat to you.

It's not even a challenge. It's just like running, except you can't stop, and you keep going faster downhill. The only challenge is having control so that you don't careen off the level.

Spin dash couldn't work properly in SA1 And SA2. mainly for one reason, it could be easily abused and could cause glitches.

[Son Goku]

Spin dash couldn't work properly in SA1 And SA2. mainly for one reason, it could be easily abused and could cause glitches.

^Megabounce anyone?

i Hated Sonic Unleashed too many night stages.IMO Sonic 06 had potential but ended up being sucky.Sonic 2/3/Knuckles were My favourites(Ihav`t played CD)

What they NEED to do is to murder all of the genies/Werehogs/Princess`/etc. And bring back to Old Skool.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Son Goku

[speedduelist]

^Megabounce anyone?

i Hated Sonic Unleashed too many night stages.IMO Sonic 06 had potential but ended up being sucky.Sonic 2/3/Knuckles were My favourites(Ihav`t played CD)

What they NEED to do is to murder all of the genies/Werehogs/Princess`/etc. And bring back to Old Skool.

they returned with sonic colors. and the wisps are even optional

and if any 1 complains about the lack of spin dash, they could play Sonic CD or Sonic 1.

ironically Sonic CD has a boost too and it was Free.

they need a serious adjustment in the adventure series engine to make the spin dash work in 3D or 2.5D. or it will cause glitches and serious abuse in game play or awkard animations.

Edited October 30, 2010 by speedduelist

[Marcello]

and if any 1 complains about the lack of spin dash, they could play Sonic CD or Sonic 1.

Sure, because people want a new 3D game with Spindash they should just go and play the old 2D games.

Edited October 30, 2010 by MarcelloF