The Sonic Fanbase

[SuperClassic]

I usually don't like making topics like this, but oh well.

Lets look back into the year 1994, Sonic and Knuckles was released, there's no denying that it was a simple, fun game, and it's predecessors being swell as well, they were all speedy, fun platformers, full of momentum based platforming and they were truly a Genesis owner's dream. Now lets look into 1999, Sonic Adventure, Sonic's first fully 3D game, which mostly, got praise, there's no denying it was overrated, some reviewers even look back at their reviews and think they were high or something. Because of the games praise, it got a sequel, and tons of games based off it, here's where things got sour.

Lets look into Sonic Adventure, okay, you play as Sonic and Tails, they run fast, do some fun platforming, cool, lets look at Knuckles, and Amy, that girl from Sonic CD, Knuckles... Treasure hunts and Amy walks around slowly with a hammer, and there's Gamma, who well, is Sonic, only who is slightly slower and shoots shit, Big... He fishes.... ugh. It should be noted that I'm not a big fan of this game and never was even back in 1999, and I'm sure other people didn't like it either. Why you may ask? Because of the variety. That's why. Before, there was just a simple fast paced platformer, and now, there's a variety of gameplay styles, mostly being crap in my humblest opinion.

Now lets look at us now, Sonic 4 episode 1 is out, and, lets face it, it's nostalgic for pretty much all the wrong reasons, reused level artwork, reused bosses, and much more. How would it be nostalgic for the right reasons you may ask? First off, the gameplay, Sonic controls nothing like he does in the Genesis titles, which is a huge turn off when we were promised momentum based gameplay when there isn't any momentum. Now, where is my argument leading to? Sonic 4 Episode 1 split the fanbase even more. Some can stand the physics change, some will hate it. Some will hate the reused objects which are supposedly "nostalgic", some will like them.

Lets look into the future, Sonic Colors comes out, it's speedy platforming at its' finest, the whole game doesn't have tons of different gameplay styles and it does its' main style well, so there isn't much to complain about. I may be pointing out the obvious, but I felt as though this sort of needed to be said.

[Diogenes]

Yeah, there's really not anything here that hasn't been said a hundred times over by this point. And I'd say it's pretty dull analysis anyway.

[T-Min]

While I admit that I like every game mentioned in a negative light in this post, what you've said certainly is true. Maybe Colors will finally unite the fanbase...

...only to have it sliced into 9,001 pieces once again eventually, but who cares.

[SuperClassic]

Yeah, there's really not anything here that hasn't been said a hundred times over by this point. And I'd say it's pretty dull analysis anyway.

I'm just curious to see if anyone would disagree, I'll admit that I did not put effort into to the topic and didn't think I should need to put much effort to put my point across.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm just curious to see if anyone would disagree, I'll admit that I did not put effort into to the topic and didn't think I should need to put much effort to put my point across.

There are so many points that could be what split the fanbase that you've barely scratched the tip of the iceberg:

It's not really known where the fanbase split, but it is more evident during the Heroes-ShTH era for very obvious reasons. It was during this moment in time where things started splitting more evidently into Pro-Shadow and Anti-Shadow groups. Five years ago on the old SSMB, there was an accursed topic called "Sick of Shadow fans?" which, looking back, only showed how the Anti-Shadow fans were just as worse as the Pro-Shadow fans they were spitting on. And it was during here that a lot of the major problems were simply used to scapegoat said character who got so much attention.

Then came Sonic 06, and during this point is where it is likely that the Pro- and Anti-Shadow groups evolved and spread into more evidently known Classic fans and Modern fans. These groups may have existed long before, but between ShTH and Sonic 06 did they really start rearing their heads and becoming more vocal. At some point down the line, somewhere approaching Unleashed is where the Neutral Fans emerged, and these are folks who sees the strengths and flaws of both groups and point them out without hesitation, with most of them having came from those previous two groups. I can safely say, that despite how much I loved the Classics that I was more heavily associated with the Modern fans in their defense before becoming a Neutral one.

I've been around for quite a while, and I've seen where things have started to splinter. But even then, there are probably other places where splits happened that I am not aware of. But I do know that the more well known splits didn't happen because of gameplay issues than it was over the aesthetics in the games.

Edited November 1, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Djawed]

Well.. I still give you a +1 for the little bit of effort

[speedduelist]

While I admit that I like every game mentioned in a negative light in this post, what you've said certainly is true. Maybe Colors will finally unite the fanbase...

some people want a story book game. some people want sonic adventure 3. some people want a hard core story line and some don't.

a lot of different opinions in the fan base its hard to unite half of them in 1 game. maybe thought, if they make a 3D Sonic game that plays like Sonic 3&K (with the sense of optional playable characters,) maybe they will all be satisfied.

then again you can't change every one's opinion in one game, but you can how ever listen to their opinions and put them in 1 game to satisfy almost all of them.

[SuperClassic]

some people want a story book game. some people want sonic adventure 3. some people want a hard core story line and some don't.

a lot of different opinions in the fan base its hard to unite half of them in 1 game. maybe thought, if they make a 3D Sonic game that plays like Sonic 3&K (with the sense of optional playable characters,) maybe they will all be satisfied.

then again you can't change every one's opinion in one game, but you can how ever listen to their opinions and put them in 1 game to satisfy almost all of them.

My point is just why the fanbase is divided in terms of opinion, lets look at the Mario fanbase for a quick little second, Mario's games, are probably one of the most simple, yet most "hardcore" and fun video games ever made. Sonic's games that most likely attempted "hardcore", are Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow The Hedgehog, and Sonic 06, Shadow the Hedgehog was even stated to try to appeal to the older crowd. Lets look into the Megaman franchise, they really never left the main formula in the main series, when they wanted to make a gimmick like Megaman Legends, they made sure it was not too related to the classic Megaman games to the point that if it was bad, people wouldn't really be mad and could just consider it a spin off. So yes, Speedduelist, I agree with you, a simple 3D Sonic game like Sonic Colors will most likely fix the fanbase a bit....

Or sucking the memories of Sonic Adventure 1, 2, Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed, and Sonic 4 out of our heads.

[Needler]

Why do you people believe that Sonic Colors will fix the fanbase? The fanbase is broken beyond repair. Not a Sonic Game awarded Game of the Year can unite the fanbase. People will always have their differences and I know that there will be some people that dislike Sonic Colors. It's inevitable. You want to know what I think? I think that Sonic Colors will divide the fanbase even more. Sonic Colors is in it's own class when it comes to the Sonic series because it is THAT good. The formula is going to keep changing as time goes by. The classic formula, the Adventure series formula, and the Unleashed/Colors formula. Maybe in the future there will be another type of Sonic game. The point is that the fanbase will always be divided and a good game like Sonic Colors cannot change that.

[SuperClassic]

Why do you people believe that Sonic Colors will fix the fanbase? The fanbase is broken beyond repair. Not a Sonic Game awarded Game of the Year can unite the fanbase. People will always have their differences and I know that there will be some people that dislike Sonic Colors. It's inevitable. You want to know what I think? I think that Sonic Colors will divide the fanbase even more. Sonic Colors is in it's own class when it comes to the Sonic series because it is THAT good. The formula is going to keep changing as time goes by. The classic formula, the Adventure series formula, and the Unleashed/Colors formula. Maybe in the future there will be another type of Sonic game. The point is that the fanbase will always be divided and a good game like Sonic Colors cannot change that.

I didn't mean for my post to make you think the fanbase would be fixed entirely by Sonic Colors, I'm just saying it's a improvement, with Sonic Free Riders, we have fanboys who will buy the Kinect and 360 just for Free Riders(Unless they might actually enjoy the game, hey, I liked Back to the Future, but I have a Wii balance board for stuff like that). With Sonic 4, we have a complete mess, people who hate the game with such rage that I really can't blame them for, lets not forget the fanboys who defend the game and even ignore its' flaws(Sega forums, looking at you), and people who like the game but acknowledge its' flaws(Majority of the fanbase). Now we have Sonic Colors, the only person here complaining about it is something about it lacking color from the E3 build and no one even cares about what he says. Honestly if we lost our memories of 3D Blast, Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed, Riders, Riders Zero Gravity, Secret rings, Black Knight, Unleashed, and yes, Sonic 4 Episode 1(Despite my liking for the game), this fanbase would be a better place.

[Needler]

I didn't mean for my post to make you think the fanbase would be fixed entirely by Sonic Colors, I'm just saying it's a improvement, with Sonic Free Riders, we have fanboys who will buy the Kinect and 360 just for Free Riders(Unless they might actually enjoy the game, hey, I liked Back to the Future, but I have a Wii balance board for stuff like that). With Sonic 4, we have a complete mess, people who hate the game with such rage that I really can't blame them for, lets not forget the fanboys who defend the game and even ignore its' flaws(Sega forums, looking at you), and people who like the game but acknowledge its' flaws(Majority of the fanbase). Now we have Sonic Colors, the only person here complaining about it is something about it lacking color from the E3 build and no one even cares about what he says. Honestly if we lost our memories of 3D Blast, Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed, Riders, Riders Zero Gravity, Secret rings, Black Knight, Unleashed, and yes, Sonic 4 Episode 1(Despite my liking for the game), this fanbase would be a better place.

But if that happened, how would Sonic be able to move on. I'm glad that Sonic went through a huge slump through 2000-2009 with 3D titles because without that we wouldn't have the amazing game that is Sonic Colors. At least now we know that Sonic Team is beginning to learn from their mistakes. Only thing they have to do now is keep up the good work. People may still hate the games, but that is opinion. There's always going to be opinion.

[SuperClassic]

But if that happened, how would Sonic be able to move on. I'm glad that Sonic went through a huge slump through 2000-2009 with 3D titles because without that we wouldn't have the amazing game that is Sonic Colors. At least now we know that Sonic Team is beginning to learn from their mistakes. Only thing they have to do now is keep up the good work. People may still hate the games, but that is opinion. There's always going to be opinion.

I honestly disagree, Remember how long of a stretch there was till we had another Megaman game? if the 3D games didn't exist we would always still have the Sonic Rush games, and the Advance games.

[Needler]

I honestly disagree, Remember how long of a stretch there was till we had another Megaman game? if the 3D games didn't exist we would always still have the Sonic Rush games, and the Advance games.

Megaman is a completely different situation because Megaman could easily get away with it. Sonic on the other hand wouldn't. Because fans have already grown to attached to the 3D games.

If the 3D games didn't exist, Sonic Colors wouldn't exist. Is that what you want? How do you think they'd be able to go from Advance and Rush to Sonic Colors. Sonic Colors would be very flawed if that were to happen and I'm sure you wouldn't want that. Sonic Team needed those games to make their games better. Forgetting about the games won't do them any good.

[Machenstein]

Nothing is going to fix this fanbase. Everyone was predisposed to dislike Sonic 4 and now these same people are looking for any reason to crap on it. It doesn't matter what Sega does to incorporate fan feedback and improve the quality of the games because they took far too long to start doing it. The result is a fanbase that is perpetually bitter and perpetually fanatical. If Sonic Colors ends up being great, WONDERFUL, that's one universally well-received game out of years of countless mixed or universally panned games. And honestly, we should have had games like Colors during the last decade.

Now there is this huge gap between Colors and whatever the last universally well-received Sonic game was. Sega has too much to make up for. Everything that has happened in the last decade has ensured that Sonic will never have the same universal respect the series used to have. And frankly, participating in the fanbase just isn't as fun as it used to be, the online fanbase anyway. Seriously, you guys depress the hell out of me. It was already sad enough that the Sonic games were declining in quality, but the way the fanbase reacts just makes it all the more tragic.

This isn't what I wanted back when I rejoined the fanbase in 2003. This isn't what I wanted when Sonic X premiered and everyone was on the Sonic Heroes hype-train. I wanted to see Sonic make his grand comeback and for me to relive the early 90's glory days. I wanted to be a part of something special and I have waited through seven arduous years for it. Did I just pick the worst time? Sorry if I'm coming across as ranty, but this just isn't what I wanted. In fact, this is the opposite of what I wanted. Oh sure, the Nintendo/Mario fanbase gets to enjoy another era of prosperity while the Sega/Sonic fanbase is still embittered over the events of the last decade. You people still won't shut up about Sonic 2006 four years after it came and went.

Go ahead and pick apart my post. I don't even care anymore. Actually, I do care, but I know I shouldn't.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Machenstein

[Diogenes]

Regarding the fanbase being "fixed", there's more than one way to interpret that.

If we're talking about it in the sense of returning to what it once was, the high points us long-timers remember...then no, it will never be "fixed". Identity is continuity; what the fanbase is is always going to be, in part, based on what it was. And what it's been, and been through, is far too big for it to simply fade away. That innocent naivete is never going to come back; we've seen and done too much.

But, if we're talking about the fanbase getting better than it is now, that, I do believe is possible. It's not something that's going to come easy or quickly, and in the end it may be something out of our hands. But if Sega can begin (and then continue) making great Sonic games again, and we do what we can to weed out the more toxic elements of the fanbase (both people and elements of our own attitudes), I think we can put back together something worth being in.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly if we lost our memories of 3D Blast, Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed, Riders, Riders Zero Gravity, Secret rings, Black Knight, Unleashed, and yes, Sonic 4 Episode 1(Despite my liking for the game), this fanbase would be a better place.

Edited November 3, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Starway]

Now this is what upsets me the most. The fans. I mean all the fans have their own opinion (and yes this is my opinion too) but they are all so split up that there is no way that they could get along ever again. I mean we have Retro, Adventure, Hero etc. fans. There is no possible way of making everyone happy. Some way or another their will be those certain "sonic fans" who will hate that game. From what I see many people enjoyed the Adventure and well let's not forget the Advance series too since that didn't get much credit around the fanbase. Pretty much the fan base will mostly hate on how much a new Sonic game will suck and yet I see no problem with Mario fans D:

Although even though with annoying fans comes to fans that will stay as long as they want. They don't complain, they think positive, and don't even dislike any of the games. Yeah sure the game isn't out yet to decide but that doesn't give you the right to say it sucks even before you play the game! And then we have nuetral who thinks about the games and how will they turn out (good or bad). So pretty much the Sonic fanbase is so divided that they will never agree on one game that is good. I also do look forward to Colors since this may be a good Sonic game that most fans have been waiting for a while.

[Vulpine]

The Sonic fanbase has become a mess. It has been hard to please everyone these days, and even SEGA knows that.

I'm one of the better fans because I appreciate the Sonic franchise as a whole and I never whine, moan or complain about Sonic 2006 and other recent games, unlike many other people. I actually form my own personal opinions instead of parroting what the critics say like everyone else does (Not everything the critics say is true, remember that). And at least I actually play the entire Sonic games, and finish them by 100% before saying anything more about them. My opinion is more valid then some random whiner who refuses to play a Sonic game because he/she believes what the negative critics say.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Vulpine

[Blue Blood]

What. The. Hell. You're a better fan than anyone else? Good God. Everyone has their opinions and everyone's entitled to them. The way you're acting certainly makes it look like you've got worse attitude than any other fan.

[Badnik Mechanic]

I'm one of the better fans because I appreciate the Sonic franchise as a whole and I never whine, moan or complain about Sonic 2006 and other recent games, unlike many other people. I actually form my own personal opinions instead of parroting what the critics say like everyone else does

Isn't that highly contradictory?

What if you don't like Sonic 06, and your reasons match those of various critics.

Are you now bad for having an opinion that matches someone elses?

[Sajotae]

To Vulpine; While I respect your opinion, I completely disagree with what you've said. For one, you're not 'better' than anyone and saying so just makes it sound like you have a stick up your butt and that you like to inflate your ego.

I'm glad that you finish games 100%, that's good for you. You seem to enjoy it. But trying to use that as a reason for you being better than probably over a thousand people? No. That is not good, and you should try to not repeat this mistake again because, really, it does you no good.

As well, some people just don't like certain Sonic games. Yes, their opinion may be influenced somewhat by what they've read online but, in the end, they are choosing to form their own opinion. The critics and reviewers aren't shoving words into their mouths, or sentences into their posts.

In regards to this topic at hand, I'm not sure if the fan base can really be 'fixed'. As I've said, no matter what SEGA does, some people will just not like certain Sonic games. In my honest opinion, from what I've seen, the fan base doesn't seem broken to me. But maybe that's because I don't really focus too much on people who dislike the games. Yes, the fan base is divided, and I'm not sure if anything will ever change that. It'd be nice to see the fan base united and agreeing, but hey... then we wouldn't have interesting discussions like this, right?

And besides, as long as it doesn't end in wars or arguments, I enjoy a good debate every now and then.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Sajotae

[Vulpine]

I don't have a stick anywhere, and I don't inflate my ego, so stop saying rude things like that. While I know that everyone has their opinions and they may or may not agree with each other, they should never treat their opinions as facts.

And besides, as long as it doesn't end in wars or arguments, I enjoy a good debate every now and then.

That's exactly the case, and that's what I am trying to do. I love to rant, but idiots end my good old fashioned debates or posts into flame wars, just because they don't agree with what I say. I promise to ignore those who don't share my opinion if they don't treat those opinions as fact, and as long as they don't bully me. I hate it when people think I'm wrong on what I've just said.

[Conando]

*Sees Vulpine's posts*

You know what?

Not even gonna bother with that.

---

As for the rest of the topic, I have a feeling there isn't really going to be a game that will ever fully unify the Sonic fanbase. I don't know, there's just something about the fanbase that seems disjointed to me, but that's the case with a LOT of fanbases. People should not think it applies only to Sonic, but it's probably one of the more recognizable instances due to the wild popularity of the character, and the harsh fall the series went through due to Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 2006. I would like to be pleasantly surprised, and see us enjoying ourselves again though. I do hope we can all have some fun with Colors, because it looks like a pretty damn fine game.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Hero Of Fate

[Vulpine]

Okay, that is it, this is what I am thinking about doing from now on: Just ignore those who criticize or disagree with me, and focus on the things that I like. If I do, then I won't have to worry about my topics or posts resulting into a flame war.

[Conando]

What you just said could further count as "flame bait", pretty much everything you say comes off with an air of arrogance. You posting that is pretty much asking for people to "bully" you some more, and honestly I wouldn't blame them for it. Honestly, what are you trying to accomplish by saying "Oh well I'm just gonna ignore people now, so back off"? That isn't actually doing anything, it's just trying to rile people up. What you SHOULD do is just not say anything about the matter, if you were smart. You seem like some kind of masochist at this point.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Hero Of Fate