Sonic Colo(u)rs Impressions, Help, and Discussion Topic

[Sean]

[Kuzu]

So what I'm getting from this is, instead of making a fancy over the top background to look at, we should be able to explore said back ground right? So does this mean the Adventure style of gameplay should return, and the Colors/Unleashed style be axed?

[edge.]

Okay so I really love the game. Like for reals. I do agree on some of the posts saying that should be more to explore. The controls are for the most part spot on except for the homing attack mapping. I miss the waggle mid-jump for homing attack. I found that easier for me to execute. Idk why really but it is better for me. (It should be obvious what version of Unleashed I'm talking about in this post.)

[Solid SOAP]

I'm gonna have to join the bandwagon of people saying that this lacks Unleashed's "flair". Don't get me wrong, I actually really like the level design in this, but to me it just seems like a poor man's combo of Sonic Unleashed and Mario Galaxy, a decent combo of both, but not quite something all that great. SMG had absolutely fantastic level designs and dozens of levels all with their own look and feel, while Unleashed had a handful of levels with 2 ways to play them, but Colors only seems to have 5 worlds total with a bunch of different level designs each, none of which are all that interesting or innovative.

[Kuzu]

I'm gonna have to join the bandwagon of people saying that this lacks Unleashed's "flair". Don't get me wrong, I actually really like the level design in this, but to me it just seems like a poor man's combo of Sonic Unleashed and Mario Galaxy, a decent combo of both, but not quite something all that great. SMG had absolutely fantastic level designs and dozens of levels all with their own look and feel, while Unleashed had a handful of levels with 2 ways to play them, but Colors only seems to have 5 worlds total with a bunch of different level designs each, none of which are all that interesting or innovative.

[Blue Blood]

So what I'm getting from this is, instead of making a fancy over the top background to look at, we should be able to explore said back ground right? So does this mean the Adventure style of gameplay should return, and the Colors/Unleashed style be axed?

[Kuzu]

I can't speak for everyone else, but that's exactly what I think. Unleashed (daytime) was really good though, and Colours is amazing even if it doesn't have the awe-factor. Thing is, the game play always leaves you wanting more. More of what the game doesn't offer.

Maybe the Unleashed style shouldn't be entirely axed. It could make a comeback somewhere down the line for variation, or they could finally make the racing game than Unleashed and Colours want to be. The SA1/06 style offers a more substansial experience AND it won't get old as fast. It was a welcome change, and now it needs to be on it's merry way.

[speedfreak]

The boards went to shit with all the arguing. Can't we agree it's a good game, but could be better, did some stuff better than SU, some stuff not as good as SU, and move on? The back and forth with the comparison videos and such is getting out of hand.

[Kuzu]

The boards went to shit with all the arguing. Can't we agree it's a good game, but could be better, did some stuff better than SU, some stuff not as good as SU, and move on? The back and forth with the comparison videos and such is getting out of hand.

We're trying to understand why people don't like the game, is that so wrong?

[Ruby Havoc]

So I picked up the game on Saturday morning and am at Aqarium Park. It's pretty good so far. Except for the bottomless pits. That and Starlight Carnival. They can burn in the fiery pits forever. :/

Edited November 22, 2010 by Torcano

[Diogenes]

So I got the game last night, blazed through it at supersonic speeds, so I figure I'll comment on my biggest disappointment with the game:

Super Sonic.

Yeah, we've been asking for him for ages, and we finally got him. But it just doesn't work, and for one single, and perfectly preventable, reason. You can't use Wisps in Super Sonic mode.

...WHY?! The game completely falls apart without them, and there's no reason I can think of that they couldn't or shouldn't have let Super Sonic use Wisps. With some levels having so few rings without including the extra paths the Wisps open up, the controls already being a bit fidgety, and a lot of areas not meant for boost-spamming, Super Sonic feels more like a challenge mode than a reward. I'm surprised to say it, but the DS version actually has the better reward, because it actually makes you more powerful rather than crippling you. Hell, even Sonic 4, as screwed up as it is, managed to get Super Sonic right.

I mean, what the hell? Did they not notice this? Why did they even decide to not let Super Sonic use wisp powers in the first place?

I'm sure it's been mentioned and discussed already, but I just had to get it out of my system.

[Kuzu]

So I got the game last night, blazed through it at supersonic speeds, so I figure I'll comment on my biggest disappointment with the game:

Super Sonic.

Yeah, we've been asking for him for ages, and we finally got him. But it just doesn't work, and for one single, and perfectly preventable, reason. You can't use Wisps in Super Sonic mode.

...WHY?! The game completely falls apart without them, and there's no reason I can think of that they couldn't or shouldn't have let Super Sonic use Wisps. With some levels having so few rings without including the extra paths the Wisps open up, the controls already being a bit fidgety, and a lot of areas not meant for boost-spamming, Super Sonic feels more like a challenge mode than a reward. I'm surprised to say it, but the DS version actually has the better reward, because it actually makes you more powerful rather than crippling you. Hell, even Sonic 4, as screwed up as it is, managed to get Super Sonic right.

I mean, what the hell? Did they not notice this? Why did they even decide to not let Super Sonic use wisp powers in the first place?

Because I'm pretty sure he would've been overpowered as hell, I mean he already destroys the Wisp blocks.

I'm sure it's been mentioned and discussed already, but I just had to get it out of my system.

[Sean]

More likely than not, Super Sonic was thrown in as an afterthought due to fan demand. I have a feeling that the game wasn't really meant for him. Not that I'm complaining.

[azoo]

I can't speak for everyone else, but that's exactly what I think. Unleashed (daytime) was really good though, and Colours is amazing even if it doesn't have the awe-factor. Thing is, the game play always leaves you wanting more. More of what the game doesn't offer.

Maybe the Unleashed style shouldn't be entirely axed. It could make a comeback somewhere down the line for variation, or they could finally make the racing game than Unleashed and Colours want to be. The SA1/06 style offers a more substansial experience AND it won't get old as fast. It was a welcome change, and now it needs to be on it's merry way.

I am thoroughly convinced that the SU360/Colors movement engine and level layouts (moreso of the SU360 variant) would make for a fantastic Sonic-based foot racing game. Just place in several other characters that could keep up with Sonic (Blaze, Shadow, Espio, Metal Sonic, maybe Tails and Knuckles because of S3K); give them slightly different attributes and specific abilities that allow them to take their own routes, and voilà; instant spiritual successor to Sonic R except with ten thousand times the adrenaline. Return T.J. Davis to her rightful spot as singer for Richard Jacques-written techno tracks, and we got ourselves GoTY material.

As for for the mainstream titles though (oh jeez I feel a tangent coming on)...

Yes, I think Sega should go back to methods similar to the gameplay of Sonic Adventure. Maybe not exactly like it (more alternate routes, better physics and less dashpads please); but the more open playfields and the balance of speed and platforming seamlessly flowing together in pure 3D (hint hint: not 2.5D) makes it the closest we have ever gotten to a full-on three dimensional Sonic experience. Further supporting that is returning with the Spin Dash / rolling mechanics that practically disappeared from mainstream Sonic games since the Dreamcast days, or arguably even the Genesis days. Even if the momentum-based mechanics the classics kept in tow with rolling weren't to be enforced nearly as much in a return of Spin Dashing / rolling, the ability to do those moves at all is important to Sonic in both that it's the reasoning behind his character (as in, why he's a hedgehog) and that it has been Sonic's staple ability since day one. Just as long as it isn't a spammable gamebreaker like it was in the first SA. Blegh.

Of course this doesn't mean I want the style of the series to revert to the SA style, although that is the dreams of many around here. I'm more than welcome to see Sega keep the aesthetic style and art direction they have implemented in Sonic Colors, and keep enforcing into future titles. However I just want to play a game I can take my own pace in, a game where I can explore and find hidden goodies and take alternate routes, a game where I could once again rev up a Spin Dash and rip-roar off ramps and through the shuttle loops. To me, all of this automation followed by Mario-on-speed platforming ain't cutting it (although admittedly its fun in it's own right).

[Diogenes]

Because I'm pretty sure he would've been overpowered as hell, I mean he already destroys the Wisp blocks.

But that's the point, isn't it?

Super Sonic is supposed to be ridiculously overpowered. You're super fast, invulnerable to normal damage, and you destroy enemies on contact. That's true whether you're talking about the Genesis Sonics or Colors; and he was overpowered in Sonics 2 and 3&K, so why shouldn't he be overpowered here? Especially when the apparent alternative is to be less powerful than playing without Super Sonic.

[Aquaslash]

I think it's safe to un spoiler that at this point. In fact, I've seen it mentioned a couple of times unspoilered already

In any case, you can't stack Wisps on Super Sonic, because by the game's logic, Super Sonic IS a wisp (made especially evident by having a wisp icon, an announcer clip, and destroying wisp blocks). As it stands, you already can't stack wisps anyway. Now the real question is why can't you use Wisps BEFORE you transform, and simply cancel them in order to transform.

Not that I really have any place complaining though. After a decade of waiting, a slow start is better than nothing. I'm hoping future titles expound on this aspect more. Plus you gotta admit, aside from complications with the game's overall gimmick, Super Sonic was handled perfectly. If this were a game like Unleashed, where there are no wisps, then there's be no problems, except for the people that hate Super Sonic in general. (thank god they are in the minority XD)

[Emmett L. Brown]

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to introduce you to the elephant in the room. He's been standing there quite some time, and it's getting awkward. His name is "superfluous alternate gameplay styles" and you're rather aggressively ignoring him when comparing Sonic Colors to Sonic Adventure and Sonic Unleashed.

This is the absolute first time Sega has ever made a Sonic game with gameplay-altering gimmicks that neither fail nor introduce a whole series of levels that feel like work to get through just so you can go back to playing Sonic for another fun level. This is a feat deserving of praise. If the past few years have taught us anything, it's that Sega hasn't got a fucking clue what to put in a Sonic game to make it succesful, so they make all these ridiculously failed attempts to win audience appeal and fall flat over and over (Sonic gets a sword? Sonic becomes a werewolf!? Sonic and the Harlem Globetrotters save Santa?) Well, this time they finally got it right, yet the main voice I'm hearing at the moment is that they should go back and learn more from their previous less-succesful attempts? Yes, Adventure and Unleashed had some really amazingly good gameplay and ideas, but they also had fishing and werehogs and other garbage. You can't just look at the good parts of the game and ignore the rotten bits, because the last time Sega tried to make a Sonic Adventure style game we got Sonic The Hedgehog of 2006, the pinnackle of vileness. Sure, you can argue that 06 was rushed, and you'd be right, but look that game straight in the eye and tell me it would've been anywhere near as good as Sonic Colors if allowed to complete beta stage and get a final release. The sad truth is that if they tried a new Adventure style game today, they haven't got a ghost of a chance of figuring out how to get it right.

Alright, that's my two cents. You may now return to your regularly schedueled game of "This is what they should've done-"

[Voyant]

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to introduce you to the elephant in the room. He's been standing there quite some time, and it's getting awkward. His name is "superfluous alternate gameplay styles" and you're rather aggressively ignoring him when comparing Sonic Colors to Sonic Adventure and Sonic Unleashed.

This is the absolute first time Sega has ever made a Sonic game with gameplay-altering gimmicks that neither fail nor introduce a whole series of levels that feel like work to get through just so you can go back to playing Sonic for another fun level. This is a feat deserving of praise. If the past few years have taught us anything, it's that Sega hasn't got a fucking clue what to put in a Sonic game to make it succesful, so they make all these ridiculously failed attempts to win audience appeal and fall flat over and over (Sonic gets a sword? Sonic becomes a werewolf!? Sonic and the Harlem Globetrotters save Santa?) Well, this time they finally got it right, yet the main voice I'm hearing at the moment is that they should go back and learn more from their previous less-succesful attempts? Yes, Adventure and Unleashed had some really amazingly good gameplay and ideas, but they also had fishing and werehogs and other garbage. You can't just look at the good parts of the game and ignore the rotten bits, because the last time Sega tried to make a Sonic Adventure style game we got Sonic The Hedgehog of 2006, the pinnackle of vileness. Sure, you can argue that 06 was rushed, and you'd be right, but look that game straight in the eye and tell me it would've been anywhere near as good as Sonic Colors if allowed to complete beta stage and get a final release. The sad truth is that if they tried a new Adventure style game today, they haven't got a ghost of a chance of figuring out how to get it right.

Alright, that's my two cents. You may now return to your regularly schedueled game of "This is what they should've done-"

If you were a woman I'd make sweet love to you repeatedly and make you breakfast, lunch, and dinner in bed. This saves up the trouble of me having to type this out and I agree whole heartdly.

Sega got something going for them...lets not FUCK this up like we did in Heroes by asking for shit.

[azoo]

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to introduce you to the elephant in the room. He's been standing there quite some time, and it's getting awkward. His name is "superfluous alternate gameplay styles" and you're rather aggressively ignoring him when comparing Sonic Colors to Sonic Adventure and Sonic Unleashed.

This is the absolute first time Sega has ever made a Sonic game with gameplay-altering gimmicks that neither fail nor introduce a whole series of levels that feel like work to get through just so you can go back to playing Sonic for another fun level. This is a feat deserving of praise. If the past few years have taught us anything, it's that Sega hasn't got a fucking clue what to put in a Sonic game to make it succesful, so they make all these ridiculously failed attempts to win audience appeal and fall flat over and over (Sonic gets a sword? Sonic becomes a werewolf!? Sonic and the Harlem Globetrotters save Santa?) Well, this time they finally got it right, yet the main voice I'm hearing at the moment is that they should go back and learn more from their previous less-succesful attempts? Yes, Adventure and Unleashed had some really amazingly good gameplay and ideas, but they also had fishing and werehogs and other garbage. You can't just look at the good parts of the game and ignore the rotten bits, because the last time Sega tried to make a Sonic Adventure style game we got Sonic The Hedgehog of 2006, the pinnackle of vileness. Sure, you can argue that 06 was rushed, and you'd be right, but look that game straight in the eye and tell me it would've been anywhere near as good as Sonic Colors if allowed to complete beta stage and get a final release. The sad truth is that if they tried a new Adventure style game today, they haven't got a ghost of a chance of figuring out how to get it right.

Alright, that's my two cents. You may now return to your regularly schedueled game of "This is what they should've done-"

Eh.

Wasn't saying I don't appreciate what I'm getting. But the majority of my issues with the series have almost never been related to the ideas as much as their execution. Although they got a whole lot right this time around, the execution (to me, please read) was still somewhat lackluster and I'm still struggling to see how this is exactly living up to Sonic 3 and Knuckles or Sonic CD. Yes, they didn't add random junk to the game and instead somewhat advanced the gameplay they had with the gimmick at hand. That's better, but that's also what they should have been doing all along. In my eyes, this is the best 3D Sonic yet if not only for the fact that it didn't do anything purely offensive towards the fans or the critics, and threw the fans a bone or two regarding the endgame reward, underwater sections and the art direction.

Sega got something going for them...lets not FUCK this up like we did in Heroes by asking for shit.

When was asking for more control, more alternate routes, more exploration, better pacing and more momentum ever the equivalent of asking for Shadow to wrise from his gwave return, very bad gameplay and cheesy teamwork?

I thought I made it fairly clear that Sega has their head on straight when it comes to what a Sonic game should look, sound and have writing like. Never did I mention reverting back to the Dark Ages of Sonicdom.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Azukara

[Diogenes]

I think it's safe to un spoiler that at this point. In fact, I've seen it mentioned a couple of times unspoilered already

Alright then.

In any case, you can't stack Wisps on Super Sonic, because by the game's logic, Super Sonic IS a wisp (made especially evident by having a wisp icon, an announcer clip, and destroying wisp blocks). As it stands, you already can't stack wisps anyway.

Yeah, I'd guess that's the main hurdle between what we got and a good implementation, but I don't believe it's an insurmountable one, or even an especially difficult one. They don't need to stack, first off; just switch, from Super Sonic to whatever wisp is in storage, then back when the wisp runs out. The wisp powers wouldn't inherit Super Sonic's powers (though there's no pressing need for them to do so, either), and more importantly Cube would probably need some extra modification (since you turn back into Sonic while it's still active), but here's step 2: make a copy of the code for the wisp transformations and tweak them to be "super". If Sonic is normal, use the original version, if he's Super, use the Super version. That way they can make them invincible and faster or stronger or whatever.

And sure, this is more work than what they ended up doing and time constraints etc etc, but this is something they should've foresaw early on and planned for.

Now the real question is why can't you use Wisps BEFORE you transform, and simply cancel them in order to transform.

To avoid getting stuck in places where you need to use a wisp. Most blatant example that comes to mind, those little underground caches in Sweet Mountain. If you could use wisps before transforming, you could drill down into one, transform, and then be stuck until you run out of rings. Or they'd need to add a way to cancel Super Sonic.

You can't just look at the good parts of the game and ignore the rotten bits

Well, that depends on what you're trying to say about those games. If people are saying "oh just make SA3!" then yeah, that's a problem. But, to take SA as an example, Sonic's gameplay and Big's gameplay are two entirely separate matters, and taking inspiration from SA Sonic in no way requires you to add a fishing sim to your game.

[Voyant]

Eh.

Wasn't saying I don't appreciate what I'm getting. But the majority of my issues with the series have almost never been related to the ideas as much as their execution. Although they got a whole lot right this time around, the execution (to me, please read) was still somewhat lackluster and I'm still struggling to see how this is exactly living up to Sonic 3 and Knuckles or Sonic CD. Yes, they didn't add random junk to the game and instead somewhat advanced the gameplay they had with the gimmick at hand. That's better, but that's also what they should have been doing all along. In my eyes, this is the best 3D Sonic yet if not only for the fact that it didn't do anything purely offensive towards the fans or the critics, and threw the fans a bone or two regarding the endgame reward, underwater sections and the art direction.

When was asking for more control, more alternate routes, more exploration, better pacing and more momentum ever the equivalent of asking for Shadow to wrise from his gwave return, very bad gameplay and cheesy teamwork?

I thought I made it fairly clear that Sega has their head on straight when it comes to what a Sonic game should look, sound and have writing like. Never did I mention reverting back to the Dark Ages of Sonicdom.

^

I understand what your saying and I do kinda agree...but what Sonic needs right now is something that he never had...consistency...every...fucking 2 years onic is something "different" and new and they end up failing badly at it. Zelda and Mario been doing the same shit since they hit 3D and they are considered very successful franchises...because they are consistent.

Evolve the formula and make it better...yes, but if it aint broke don't fix it...just polish it up a bit with some Brass-O and sand out those splinters and rough edges and eventually we will get THAT game everyone almost wants. Baby steps man...baby steps.

I'm not setting the bar just at Colors...but now they they done something right lets see if they can KEEP doing right. You may want everything in a game that you stated...but this is Sega/sonic Team we are talking about...they can and most likely will find a way to fuck it up! (Sonic 4 is a great example)

1 SOLID game is not good enough for me. I still want to give the entire Sega staff a swift kick in the Balls...

Sonic Colors just makes me want to hit them less hard than I originally wanted to...

Edited November 22, 2010 by Voyant

[Saint Nathan]

Sonic and the Harlem Globetrotters save Santa?

I'm not sure why you used this as an example of a bad gimmick because I'm entirely sure this would be the best game ever no matter what.

[Aries]

Question, HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU HOLD THE LAZER? MINE JUST WANTS TO SHOOT OUT IN 1 SECOND! BUT I SEEN PEOPLE HOLD THE LAZER TO AIM FOR SEVERAL SECONDS.

Its driving me INSANE!! :wacko:

Edited November 22, 2010 by Aries

[azoo]

The only problem with having consistency with what we have now is... well, that I don't wanna spend the next couple of years playing 2.5D/3D games featuring strafe-and-boost race tracks followed by Mario floating block time but fast.

They could've been consistent with SA1's layout but improved upon it (like more expansive levels, better physics, less alternate playstyles, more immersion). Not exactly sure why they didn't, but they didn't so I guess that's all I can say about it.

[Carbo]

Question, HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU HOLD THE LAZER? MINE JUST WANTS TO SHOOT OUT IN 1 SECOND! BUT I SEEN PEOPLE HOLD THE LAZER TO AIM FOR SEVERAL SECONDS.

Its driving me INSANE!! :wacko:

Keep moving the control stick. Fairly sure it does that when you don't move it for more than a second.

Ironically my first ever issue with that wisp was figuring out how to fire it.