Sonic Colo(u)rs Impressions, Help, and Discussion Topic

[Candescence]

Its kind of a by-product of proper physics though.

If Sonic adhered to 'proper physics', he wouldn't be capable of moving in mid-air AT ALL. It would be like Castlevania, except EVEN MORE FRUSTRATING. Also...

Nonetheless he is still more controllable in Colours than he was in Unleashed HD. They are learning and they are improving it.

Oh, really? Because out of all the things I hated about Unleashed, crappy 2D platforming wasn't one of them. They improved over Unleashed in some aspects... And got worse in others.

Sonics inability to turn in Colours and Unleashed is only beneficial on those long, straight paths in said games. If he controlled like that in any other game it'd be damn awful. There's a line between practicality and realism games.

THANK YOU. And even within this game, it's damn awful. Seriously, I can never get over the fact that Sonic handles like a fat cow.

You see, if I wanted 'realistic' jumping mechanics and movement, I'd play the original Castlevania. Actually, on second thoughts, the lack of 'realistic' jumping mechanics and movement is partly why I prefer Super Castlevania IV. Now THOSE were some tight platforming mechanics.

... Wait. Why are we talking about realism in a game about a blue hedgehog that goes at the speed of sound? Seriously. The Genesis games had momentum, but they didn't hinder the actual platforming. Especially when Sonic wasn't actually moving faster than walking speed.

Well, I'm at a loss here. It honestly sounds like we've played completely different games. I've played through the game twice now and the amount of controll response failures never went above zero. I've honestly never touched the jump button without Sonic jumping, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Try jumping at the very edge of a platform.

Again, the jumping momentum and usefulness of the double-jump make it sound like you're playing a different game - those statement simply weren't true during my playthroughs. Using the double-jump to correct the momentum made precision platforming easy.

It helped. Slightly. Unfortunately, for me, it failed to mitigate the fact that Sonic can only move marginally better in midair than half the Belmont family.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Masaru Daimon

[Scar]

Moving Sonic left and right at high speed worked absolutely fine in both the Adventure games, and was made far too slippery by Heroes through to 06. If he has the quick step in his arsenal then he doesn't need to turn so slowly, because all that results in is a game that's unplayable when the paths are anything but simple straights.

True, but in Adventure [2] I found it to be too twitchy. Instead of arcing smoothly, you tended to make small sharp turns.

Granted both had level design to accomodate this, but neither system is perfect. To perfect it I reckon they need to do some more experimenting with the current scheme, or by combining the Adventure controls with the Colours controls and then refining it. Eventually they should reach a similar result, where the controls are tight and responsive, but smooth and refined, so you when you're weacing from side to side, you arc, instead of turning sharply.

TL;DR - the controls need to be tight and responsive, but at the same time fluid and smooth.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Scar

[Candescence]

Considering Sonic Team somehow managed to make certain aspects of Unleashed worse in Colours while improving others, effectively trading some flaws for others, it doesn't exactly give me high hopes for them actually refining the formula.

Honestly, I think they should just scrap the Unleashed formula, because I am now convinced it just isn't working. The gameplay, even when there's 'branching paths', feels restrictively linear, it relies too much on 2D sections, and the 3D sections are just racetracks. As well, Sonic Team just can't avoid fake difficulty, it seems. And to expand on the linear aspect, they tease us with massive worlds, and yet all you get is linear racetracks, it's just one big cocktease.

Which, naturally, leads me to this question: Why the hell hasn't Sonic Team made an open-world Sonic game yet? And if they're not gonna try it... Actually, in any case, I'd rather have someone else make the next 3D Sonic, because I have absolutely no confidence in Sonic Team actually making a great Sonic game anymore. Obviously, they can make a mediocre or good one, but a great one? Pfft, don't think so. Especially not with that hack Iizuka at the helm.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Masaru Daimon

[Kuzu]

Considering Sonic Team somehow managed to make certain aspects of Unleashed worse in Colours while improving others, effectively trading some flaws for others, it doesn't exactly give me high hopes for them actually refining the formula.

Honestly, I think they should just scrap the Unleashed formula, because I am now convinced it just isn't working. The gameplay, even when there's 'branching paths', feels restrictively linear, it relies too much on 2D sections, and the 3D sections are just racetracks. As well, Sonic Team just can't avoid fake difficulty, it seems. And to expand on the linear aspect, they tease us with massive worlds, and yet all you get is linear racetracks, it's just one big cocktease.

Which, naturally, leads me to this question: Why the hell hasn't Sonic Team made an open-world Sonic game yet? And if they're not gonna try it... Actually, in any case, I'd rather have someone else make the next 3D Sonic, because I have absolutely no confidence in Sonic Team actually making a great Sonic game anymore. Obviously, they can make a mediocre or good one, but a great one? Pfft, don't think so. Especially not with that hack Iizuka at the helm.

You make it seem like Iuzuka is the one making the games, he's just the producer. If anything blame Sega they pretty much restrict them from doing what they want every year.

And what do you mean Fake Difficulty? Its not trial and error like Unleashed, its not overly long like the Werehog. The only problem I had with the game are the controls, which isn't much. I can understand your pessimism though. But this game was made by the storybook team, not the Unleashed team so...

[sonfan1984]

I don't have a problem with the controls in this game so seeing you guys going back and fourth on whether Sonic controls bad or not brings alot of confusion to me.

Edited December 19, 2010 by sonfan1984

[Emmett L. Brown]

Try jumping at the very edge of a platform.

I actually booted up the game to find out what you were talking about, and you're right. If you position Sonic so far off the edge of a platform that only his heels are on solid ground, he will not jump if you press forward at the same time. Which obviously I've never done, since there are zero pixel perfect long jumps in this game, so there's no real reason to ever wait until Sonic's toes are brushing the air before pushing jump. I don't understand your mysterious cow complaints, though. If you jump while standing still, then of course Sonic is going to have less forward momentum than if you jump while running. That's complete basics for any 2D platformer.

I can't really call the controls broken because you insist on leaving the jump button untouched until Sonic is going over the edge. Yes, it's totally a programming oversight, but since you actually had to explain to me how to encounter it, it's not a deal.

[Scar]

Which, naturally, leads me to this question: Why the hell hasn't Sonic Team made an open-world Sonic game yet? And if they're not gonna do it, I'd rather have someone else make the next 3D Sonic, because I have absolutely no confidence in Sonic Team actually making a great Sonic game anymore. Obviously, they can make a mediocre or good one, but a great one? Pfft, don't think so. Especially not with that hack Iizuka at the helm.

Open world Sonic game is impossible. Open-world games tend to be made up entirely of fetch-quests and/or missions. Thats fine, but it means a largely uniform difficulty because Open World implies being able to go wherever you want whenever you want. If there is a difficulty, then its not really open-world, because its pretty much forcing you to complete easier missions first.

Open-world just doesn't work for a platformer.

Obviously, they can make a mediocre or good one, but a great one? Pfft, don't think so. Especially not with that hack Iizuka at the helm.

What makes Iizuka such a hack? The fact that these games are flawed? He's the producer. He didn't single-handedly make Sonic 4 or Colours. He has barely any involvement in the production of the games. Yuji Naka left because as the producer, he had practically zero involvement in the games programming.

Honestly, I think they should just scrap the Unleashed formula, because I am now convinced it just isn't working. The gameplay, even when there's 'branching paths', feels restrictively linear, it relies too much on 2D sections, and the 3D sections are just racetracks. As well, Sonic Team just can't avoid fake difficulty, it seems. And to expand on the linear aspect, they tease us with massive worlds, and yet all you get is linear racetracks, it's just one big cocktease.

Scrapping the Unleashed formula would be the biggest mistake of all time. The last thing Sonic Team needs is to come up with a completely new gameplay style, instead of improving what they have. It doesn't matter that they brought about new flaws whilst replacing old ones. They still attempted to fix things. That is a good sign, because it shows that they aren't ignorant of the flaws completely.

Racetracks is really a limitation. They could make really huge levels for Sonic to explore every inch of, but that would cause massive framerate problems due to the amount of crap that would need to be rendered at any one time, and because I'm pretty sure there would too much data to store on a single Wii disk.

This could be resolved on HD consoles, with their larger storage capacities and hard drives, but on the Wii, I assume its quite difficult.

Fake difficulty, I assume means bottomless pits and cheap enemies. Well, explain to me another way they could increase difficulty.

Its a platformer, there is no other way.

We haven't yet seen what Sonic Team HD are capable of producing on the HD consoles, so we need to wait and see.

If you truly believe there is no hope for Sonic with this current team, then you should end it on a high note, because I doubt anything they ever do will be enough.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Scar

[Core]

Open world Sonic game is impossible.

You know, I don't think you can assert "it's impossible" just because it hasn't been done before... You never know what developers could come up with.

Scrapping the Unleashed formula would be the biggest mistake of all time. The last thing Sonic Team needs is to come up with a completely new gameplay style, instead of improving what they have.

I disagree. The Unleashed formula is far from perfect, so if they manage to replace it by a better formula, I don't see why it would be "the biggest mistake of all time". Yes they could replace it by something worse, but they could as well make something a lot better. Sure it may also be possible to improve the formula without scraping it entirely, but you can't just say it would be a bad idea.

It doesn't matter that they brought about new flaws whilst replacing old ones.

How does it not matters? They should fix the existing flaws without bringing new ones.

Racetracks is really a limitation. They could make really huge levels for Sonic to explore every inch of, but that would cause massive framerate problems due to the amount of crap that would need to be rendered at any one time, and because I'm pretty sure there would too much data to store on a single Wii disk.

This could be resolved on HD consoles, with their larger storage capacities and hard drives, but on the Wii, I assume its quite difficult.

Or they could just do what the Adventure games did, with levels in full 3D that didn't feel like race tracks, without being impossibly large.

Fake difficulty, I assume means bottomless pits and cheap enemies. Well, explain to me another way they could increase difficulty.

Its a platformer, there is no other way.

I can't claim I know exactly what he meant by "fake difficulty" or what you mean by "cheap enemies", but saying "there is no other way" is rather presumptuous in my opinion.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Core

[Dark Qiviut]

I disagree. The Unleashed formula is far from perfect, so if they manage to replace it by a better formula, I don't see why it would be "the biggest mistake of all time". Yes they could replace it by something worse, but they could as well make something a lot better. Sure it may also be possible to improve the formula without scraping it entirely, but you can't just say it would be a bad idea.

Scar exaggerated, sure, but the idea of scrapping the Unleashed formula, as Masaru suggested, is outright STUPID. The formula has generated popularity among most of the fanbase and has a big backing; scrapping it because a few pessimists gripe over it doesn't make sense. Edited December 19, 2010 by Dark Qiviut

[Carbo]

I actually booted up the game to find out what you were talking about, and you're right. If you position Sonic so far off the edge of a platform that only his heels are on solid ground, he will not jump if you press forward at the same time. Which obviously I've never done, since there are zero pixel perfect long jumps in this game, so there's no real reason to ever wait until Sonic's toes are brushing the air before pushing jump. I don't understand your mysterious cow complaints, though. If you jump while standing still, then of course Sonic is going to have less forward momentum than if you jump while running. That's complete basics for any 2D platformer.

I can't really call the controls broken because you insist on leaving the jump button untouched until Sonic is going over the edge. Yes, it's totally a programming oversight, but since you actually had to explain to me how to encounter it, it's not a deal.

This isn't really oversight, it's standard platform physics. It's an honest mistake on the player's part if they jump too late or hold forward while jumping right at a ledge, and anyone who's even had any minor GameMaker activity can figure this out on their own. Sonic is not an exclusive example for this, he's just a bit faster than other characters, kind of like Super Meat Boy. The only feasonable way to improve that is stretch out the hitboxes a bit.

I've never came across a point where I had to stand on an edge anyway to precision jump since Sonic moves pretty well in air all things considered, and most of the time you're on the run anyway so there's a good deal of momentum.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Carbo

[Sean]

Unleashed's gameplay was automatic, cinematic, and explosively punishable in several segments. No thanks on ever seeing it again.

[Kuzu]

Unleashed's gameplay was automatic, cinematic, and explosively punishable in several segments. No thanks on ever seeing it again.

I'd rather for them to improve on that, rather than make a new one and fuck it up.

[Blue Blood]

Unleashed's gameplay was automatic, cinematic, and explosively punishable in several segments. No thanks on ever seeing it again.

It was also thrilling, and is still much more fun than the the equivalent gameplay in Colours. The big problem is that it's always going to be the same. Agreed on not wanting it again.

I'd rather for them to improve on that, rather than make a new one and fuck it up.

Colours improved on fairness and that's about it. The rest of it is worse that Unleashed at daytime. I'd rather they improved on the infinitely better Adventure style of gameplay.

[JezMM]

Unleashed's gameplay was automatic, cinematic, and explosively punishable in several segments. No thanks on ever seeing it again.

Anyone who thought Unleashed was playing itself, it's no wonder if you died lots. For Unleashed you always have to be on edge, ready for whatever the high speed levels throw at you. Holding Up and X is apparently all anyone did, and that's why they died and moaned it was cheap.

[Sean]

Anyone who thought Unleashed was playing itself, it's no wonder if you died lots. For Unleashed you always have to be on edge, ready for whatever the high speed levels throw at you. Holding Up and X is apparently all anyone did, and that's why they died and moaned it was cheap.

I can play the levels just fine. Except when I play them, I feel like I have no genuine control over my character; I'm just mindlessly reacting to whatever flashy incident that's going on at the moment, and the whole thing plays out like a movie. That's what I mean by automatic.

[Blue Blood]

In essence, it's one big QTE. Cracking visuals though.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Blue Blood

[Scar]

And yet, nobody mentions combining both existing formulas.

Its taking what we already have and combining them, whilst taking out what's bad.

No need to scrap one style altogether.

Use everything in moderation.

Have earlier stages boast some great cinematic gameplay, with a fair amount of platfmorming and exploring, whilst later stages have more exploring and platforming, yet still having the occasional cinematic part. It would keep the thrill-seekers entertained, whilst also keeping the gamers focused on gameplay happy as well.

It is extreme to remove one section completely, so why not use both in more or less equal parts so its a balanced experience, rather than being definitively one or the other.

[PSI Wind]

Funny, as soon as I picked up the game with the Wii Remote + Nunchuck, I was a fucking MASTER at it. I see no problems with the controls what so ever.

[Blue Blood]

I must admit, after the disaster that was me trying to playing Unleashed Wii with the Wiimote and nunchuck, I can't stand playing Colours with anything else. Initially I went straight for the GCN controller, and after a few hours I switched. The Wiimote and nunchuck combo is perfect for Colours.

[Dark Qiviut]

I've finished about half of the story already (been playing it thirty to forty-five minutes at a time with thirty-minute breaks in between). Thus far, I've come with this verdict.

This game is REALLY good!

There is so much that this game has to offer. Speed, adrenaline, and (most awesome part of it all) platforming goodness. It isn't all about speed. There's a balance, and the boost is very strategic. In only sections at a time can you boost, and it's toned down to make it better for you to control. At first, the game starts off as uninteresting due to the lack of Wisp choices. But when you unlock the Wisps, then the game becomes a whole lot better. You take advantage of multiple sections that grant you the ability to explore.

As for the Wisps, my favorites are in this order:

1. The Frenzy. This cute, purple Wisp in the shape of a devil's head packs a violent, explosive punch. He's basically Pacman in a Wisp.

2. The Drill. Wanna go underground completely than merely below the surface? This does it for you, and he is, by God, EXCELLENT! Especially underwater. He does so much and covers a ton of ground. His underwater music is my most favorite Colors soundtrack.

3. The Hover. His ability to control took getting used to because it was very different. The Hover is like playing underwater while in the air. But once you get to hone them down, the Hover becomes so much fun.

(Believe it or not, I've yet to get the Spike Wisp. I'm doing that tomorrow.)

The red rings aren't required to progress, but they offer you a great want to obtain. They can be found at the best hiding places or areas that require perfect timing before getting hit. The rings provide a excellent amount of replayability and make you want to go back.

S-Ranking is NOT easy. Thus far, I've gotten only four A-ranks, the last one being the Aquarium Park boss earlier tonight. Believe it or not, speed-running, although fun, does NOT guarantee you a high rank. To S-Rank, you've got to explore, grab Wisps, and do multiple tricks. Speed-running may actually get you a C-rank at times.

By the way, to those who think Colors is about speed, speed, and speed because it uses the Unleashed formula, you clearly never saw one clip of that game. This game discourages you to speed-run half the time, and the 2D sections are the heaviest in platforming since Knuckles' Chaotix. They're blocky, but they return Sonic to the platforming roots where it started (Sonic was a platformer first; the illusion of speed was built around that).

BTW, Masaru's claim of Colors being a source of "fake difficulty" is completely bullcrap. The game provides quite a challenge, although it isn't so difficult that you'll want to break your controllers in half. The platforming in this game requires a lot of patience and care. Rushing through the platforming sections with a bottomless pit over them will almost guarantee you a lost life. Trust me, you WILL get frustrated if you become careless or impatient. Once you pass it, then the levels become easier, and you'll know what to do.

There are some flaws in this game.

1. The jump is good, but the double jump isn't really all that recommended. The double jump can either be too stiff or too floaty. Use it only when needed.

2. Although this may be only a Wii/Nunchuck combo thing, there is a tiny bit of lag when jumping/hitting the Homing Attack. Attempt the jump a little bit sooner than you plan.

3. At some sections in Sweet Mountain's Drilling sections, getting hit will make Colors slow down HORRIBLY for about two seconds before its framerate is restored properly.

4. And, of course, the story is very weak. I'll add more about this later.

But Colors was more about gameplay than story, a very radical change amongst the Modern Era of Sonic games (which paid attention to story, characterization, and gameplay equally). I must say that Colors is very good. I got it as a Hanukkah present, and I don't regret the purchase despite its shortcomings. Honestly, this may top Adventure as my most favorite Sonic game.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Dark Qiviut

[Nix]

I must admit, after the disaster that was me trying to playing Unleashed Wii with the Wiimote and nunchuck, I can't stand playing Colours with anything else. Initially I went straight for the GCN controller, and after a few hours I switched. The Wiimote and nunchuck combo is perfect for Colours.

[Blue Blood]

Really? I tried out the Wiimote Nunchuck combo and hated it completely. I don't know how to describe it, I think it involves me having a hard time keeping a steady grip with the nunchuck. I for the life of me cannot control Sonic properly in the 3-D segments.

lol, I dunno. It's weird. But I also hold the Wiimote and Nunchuck unlike anyone else I know. Wiimote in left hand, Nunchuck in right hand, then I cross my arms below my elbow with my left arm on top.

[Scar]

What the hell is "Fake difficulty".

Can someone care to define it and provide some examples?

After that, could you please provide an alternate method of adding "real" difficulty.

[Carbo]

What the hell is "Fake difficulty".

Can someone care to define it and provide some examples?

[ChikaBoing]

I think this game kind of doesn't even aknowledge the existence of Sonic 4 Epiosde 1,or even devlopers did while making the game. Like they don't try to seperate from each other, to be a 2d series and a 3d series of games. Sonic Colors is trying to be retro sonic in it's own way(and better than Sonic 4 by alot of people) by first of all making the game mostly 2d.And kind replicating the challenges of the old games, like being more reliant on bubbles than Sonic 4,having the rings and extra lifes abit more scarse;and the worlds being more contorted in comparison to Sonic 4 etc.I bet if Sonic 4 never got made, people would consider this SEGAs attempt at creating a Classic 2d Sonic game.

Edited December 22, 2010 by ChikaBoing