So now that you have played sonic colo(u)rs

[Blue Blood]

So... you liked the Rush Adventure system? Different levels gave you the different materials you needed and a higher rank would net you more of them. I cant say I'd be fond of that again, if only because mastering games is the least appealing part of playing them to me (go check my awful gamerscore).

[Scar]

Post

[ChikaBoing]

I can easily understand why they did it; They just did it badly. xP

[JezMM]

I agree they were handled badly in Unleashed 360. I didn't mind them but I can 100% understand anyone who did. I'm just wondering aloud whether there is a way to make collectables a fun way to extend gameplay without being "different" from normal gameplay.

@Blue Blood

I think Rush Adventure's system was okay. The best part was you got at least one material just for trying, so no matter what your skill you would eventually get through just by playing the game normally. Also hidden islands gave out specific material combinations for only short levels so it encouraged you to seek those out too.

[Emmett L. Brown]

To be honest, I don't really want it to be mandatory to complete the game; that kinda thing is for Mario.

Though for Mario a collectable star equals an entire stage. For this comparison it'd be as if they took the comet medals from Super Mario Galaxy 2, put 3-6 of them for each star in each galaxy, and then demanded you collect the majority before opening up the next world.

Needless to say, it would suck a lot of fun out of the game. Which it totally did in Unleashed.

[DistantJ]

Nepenthe is the master of forums.

It's true though - this kinda pinpoints my argument of 'less flaws doesn't equal better if the good stuff isn't as good', and about judging everything as a sum of it's parts rather than how much you enjoyed each part - it's the same with games and movies with internet people, it's as if everybody is judging everything for critics, metascores, and other people - as if they're tasting the drink for poison before passing it on to somebody else - if everybody does this whose going to drink/enjoy it? Everybody thinks they're a critic

When I say Sonic should run fast all the time I mean that they should be able to make challenges and platforming without having to slow you down to a normal platformer every time. Saying the originals weren't like that is bull, aside from Sonic 1 I can't remember doing any particularly slow stuff in the classics, maybe pushing a couple of blocks or waiting for a few moving platforms but they still had a flow and excitement to them that other platform games didn't. It went slow if you weren't good enough at the game to keep the speed up, like you'd end up falling down to slow underwater areas or whatever but it wasn't the main attraction of the game. OK, there was stuff later on where you had to go slow in S2, like Wing Fortress etc. but these were the later, extreme challenges of the game, and I didn't like those levels anyway. What I'm trying to say is that even in the sections which aren't entirely about getting from A to B very fast, it's still all happening in a faster and more exciting way than any other platfor game. If you take out the mostly automated speed sections in Colours, I don't see anything that couldn't be put in any other platform series.

I say with 3D Sonic keep the speed up as much as possible but keep it challenging - none of that 'hold right/up to win' bullshit. The Chun-Nan platform sections in Unleashed are a perfect example - they're challenging and varied but they're not about very slowly edging your way between little floating squares. If you're good at those sections and you've had practice, you can go through them quickly and with style - but even when you aren't, it still feels exhilarating and intense, which you don't get from other platform games.

[Carbo]

Everybody thinks they're a critic

That's because if they are pointing out and criticizing a game for a certain flaw or issue they are having, they are critics. There is a difference between being a professional critic and just simply a critic.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Carbo

[mark]

I say with 3D Sonic keep the speed up as much as possible but keep it challenging - none of that 'hold right/up to win' bullshit. The Chun-Nan platform sections in Unleashed are a perfect example - they're challenging and varied but they're not about very slowly edging your way between little floating squares. If you're good at those sections and you've had practice, you can go through them quickly and with style - but even when you aren't, it still feels exhilarating and intense, which you don't get from other platform games.

How can anyone possibly not agree with this?

[Blue Blood]

How can anyone possibly not agree with this?

Because we all have different opinions. I personally like 3D gameplay to be more in vein of SA1 and 06 (or the way 06 tried to be at least =P) because it doesn't lend itself to repetitiveness. Unleashed and Colours style has been a nice diversion, but no more of that for a while please.

[ChikaBoing]

At the 5:10 mark, that is a good 3d area for plattforming and freeroaming, espacially if you could run around at all all the stuff in the background.

People say that plattforming in 3d is akward with the Colors Engine, but if the areas are wide and straightforward enough and not too complex, more of these sections would be great.

Edited November 28, 2010 by ChikaBoing

[Blue Blood]

Nu-uh. They'd need to change Sonic's running behaviour cause as soon as he is actually running he can't turn for shit, only weave from side to side like a race car. Controlling Sonic in 3D areas like that is a nightmare in Colours. They should have made more areas like that AND made him control better so such would have been decent.

[Djawed]

Still an awesome stage nonetheless .

[ChikaBoing]

Nu-uh. They'd need to change Sonic's running behaviour cause as soon as he is actually running he can't turn for shit, only weave from side to side like a race car.

I thougt that in Colors Sonic's running behaviour changed depending on the Terrain. Like in more complex 3d sections such as what was in the video, he controlled more like Mario and didn't really gain speed and coudn't go fast at all.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Would you guys indulge my curiosity for one moment?

We've got SO many different opinions of how Sonic games should play, how they shouldn't play, what was good, what wasn't good, which ideas they should develop further, and which they should drop. You all seem to have very strong opinions, which is good. Opinions should be tested all along so that the weak ones get dropped and the strong ones get strengthened. What I would like to know is; did playing Sonic Colors change your opinion at all? Did you pick up the game, test to see whether it matched your preconcieved notion of the perfect Sonic game, then post your comparison, or did you let it alter your ideas?

Me, I'd been so badly burned by Shadow the Hedgehog (guns? Really?), Sonic 06 (BAAAAAAAAAAALLS!!), Sonic & the Secret Rings (Why is it so damn hard to jump in this game!?), Sonic & the Black Knight (swords? Really?), and Sonic Unleashed (50% awesome 50% BAAAAAAAAAAALLS!!!), that all I hoped of Sonic Colors was that it didn't suck. Which it didn't, so it was a treat for me from start to finish. Now, I had barely an expectations whatsoever, so I was easy to please this time - a non-sucking Sonic game was all it took. But what about you guys? To reiterate, did Sonic Colors change your opinions at all?

[Djawed]

I second what grumpy said and i'd like to add that not only did the game not suck for me, but it also surpassed that a little bit.

[Blue Blood]

Change my opinions? Nope. Quite the opposite in fact- it just helped to solidify all of them. That Sonic should have a light story (not as light as Colours), Sonic-only makes for an annoyingly short game, we've had enough Unleashed style gameplay for now, that Sonic really works with a variety of pop music, that the Emeralds don't need to be in every fucking story and that gimmicks should be gameplay enhancing and not gameplay intruding.

[JezMM]

My only expectation was that when I played the demo at Summer of Sonic I was like "Man this plays just like Unleashed! Level was a bit easy and plenty of 2D sure, but this is only two levels! I can't wait for the rest!"

The rest was exactly the same. Easy 3D and too much 2D. The fact that Sonic handles in 3D like he does in my beloved Unleashed is what shaped my preconceptions of the game. Everything else I steered clear of for fear of spoilers. Hell, I experienced everything other than Laser, Drill and Rocket first-hand in-game on release day! I had no idea what Cube, Spikes, Hover or Frenzy did.

[Nepenthe]

The thing is, I don't have a cohesive idea about the "perfect" Sonic game-- Preferences sure, but not a solid concept that I strictly adhere to. It leaves me the option of judging the games on a case-by-case basis, critiquing the final product against its own goals and the few game theory standards I know instead of whether or not the titles conform to any preconceived biases and ideals of mine. So no, Sonic Colors did not change my opinion because I didn't have one. xP

[Sean]

To reiterate, did Sonic Colors change your opinions at all?

Still hasn't changed my view that Sonic Team isn't capable of producing a line of good, high-quality games in the long run. Pretty sure we're not going to be seeing a game like Colors for some time, if ever!

[Legendary Emerald]

Posting without reading anything in the thread, other than the topic. It's funny, because I just had the idea to see how well Unleashed compared not even an hour ago. So I want to post while thoughts are still fresh.

First off, I've always been very vocal in my hatred of Sonic Unleashed's daylight stages. But Sonic Colors did something I did not think possible: it actually made that style of gameplay FUN. So after playing Colors for hours on end, maybe now I would enjoy Unleashed (PS3) as well?

Nope.

The control is just horrific. I don't think I ever even noticed how bad they were until I played Colors. Sonic is harder to control than even in Sonic Heroes, and it makes simply maneuvering around the level selecting areas a chore. And even if you get used to the controles, drifting still doesn't work half the time, and the levels are just AWFUL. Seriously, play a Sonic Colors level, then play an Unleashed level, and tell me it doesn't leave a bitter taste in your mouth.

The stages are just so barren and plain; all you do is run forward, and cheap deaths are everywhere despite the fact that the game is too easy. How does such a paradox even exist? Oh, thats right, the game forces you to memorize everything in order to even make progress. Nice, Sega.

Sonic Colors literally fixed every flaw in the concept, to the point where it is now one of the better 3D Sonic games, and I can find it highly enjoyable. But it's prequel, Unleashed? It deserves to be left in the trash.

Oh, and final note. Werehog levels are still fun, but far too long.

[Jetstreamx]

I still prefer unleashed. Colors strength is platforming, Unleashed is speed. Frankly, I prefer the speed, I love the werehog stages, and while I enjoy Colors, I'm disappointed that it has to resort to being a Mario game in order to feel confident in itself. Regardless, Colors and Unleashed both have aspects that they could borrow from one another to make a better game that achieves both better platforming and still maintains nice speed without becoming too bogged down in one or the other. I also won't lie, the control layout in Colors is a total nightmare.

[Sami]

I still prefer unleashed. Colors strength is platforming, Unleashed is speed. Frankly, I prefer the speed, I love the werehog stages, and while I enjoy Colors, I'm disappointed that it has to resort to being a Mario game in order to feel confident in itself. Regardless, Colors and Unleashed both have aspects that they could borrow from one another to make a better game that achieves both better platforming and still maintains nice speed without becoming too bogged down in one or the other. I also won't lie, the control layout in Colors is a total nightmare.

There are literally only three buttons you have to use. 1, 2, and B.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Thanks guys, those were some great answers. Definitely puts the debate into proper perspective. I've got a follow-up question, though:

Do you think Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors had the same target audience in mind?

Personally I doubt it. Would you have tried to pass off the werehog to a target audience unless you knew they'd played a God of War clone? And Sonic Colors wasn't shy about its Mario influences.

[Blue Blood]

There are literally only three buttons you have to use. 1, 2, and B.

Which sucks for quicksteppping and drifting.

[JezMM]

Seriously, play a Sonic Colors level, then play an Unleashed level, and tell me it doesn't leave a bitter taste in your mouth.

Edited November 29, 2010 by JezMM