So now that you have played sonic colo(u)rs

[Sega DogTagz]

Why is the game only great when mastered? Shouldn't a racing game (or any game for that matter) be enjoyable the moment you play it? I still haven't mastered Mario Kart Double Dash after all of these years, but it's still a blast to play. Riders is simply dull from start to finish for me. I can't say to myself, "Well, I'll really like this game once I get better at it!"

Go pick up Bayonetta or Vanquish and see if you’re still singing that tune.

Those are two phenomenal examples of games where you have to good (not even decent) before you can even begin to reap the entertainment value to be had (otherwise you will be too busy dying). Pick-up-and-play ability is a desirable trait for many games, but it certainly isn’t a mandate. Looking back at Sonic Riders, I think people were a bit taken aback by its inherent expectation of the user to sit down and really learn the ins and outs of the system. Mascot racers are usually a lot more shallow than that.

There is a lot of fun to be had with Riders (especially when you can play against someone who is good at the game), it just gets a bum rap because so few people actually sit down with the intent of pushing their talents to the level they need to be in order to play the game.

[Sami]

Go pick up Bayonetta or Vanquish and see if you’re still singing that tune.

Those are two phenomenal examples of games where you have to good (not even decent) before you can even begin to reap the entertainment value to be had (otherwise you will be too busy dying). Pick-up-and-play ability is a desirable trait for many games, but it certainly isn’t a mandate. Looking back at Sonic Riders, I think people were a bit taken aback by its inherent expectation of the user to sit down and really learn the ins and outs of the system. Mascot racers are usually a lot more shallow than that.

There is a lot of fun to be had with Riders (especially when you can play against someone who is good at the game), it just gets a bum rap because so few people actually sit down with the intent of pushing their talents to the level they need to be in order to play the game.

... I haven't played the full game, but the Vanquish demo was ridiculously easy. >>

[Sega DogTagz]

... I haven't played the full game, but the Vanquish demo was ridiculously easy. >>

That's also basically the first level on the easiest setting. If you want a true gauge of what the game expects of you, boot up challenge map #1. (I know a demo of that was released in Japan, not sure if it made it over here though).

Edited December 1, 2010 by Sega DogTagz

[Sean]

Having to master a game in order to enjoy it is one thing. But if you have to actually struggle against it in order to enjoy it, then it's not a good game.

Oh wait, back on topic.

[Saint Nathan]

Okay, hands on your hearts, did ANYONE beat the Mazuri stage where you have to make dozens of succesful drifts to complete 3 laps in a time limit without dying at least six times due to overshooting or undershooting a drift?

And how many times did you die due to a bad drift in Colors?

Never played it, but generally I'm semi-bad at drifting in general (i know how and shit, but i have a hard time all the same)

But I don't remember EVER dying from a bad drift in Colors. Most of the time there's a guard rail or something. Planet Wisp was the only one that didn't as far as I can recall.

[speedduelist]

Here is how i can sum it up :

Colors uses mommentum Physics

Unleashed does not.

Their for I like Colors more.

Generally speaking.

Edited December 1, 2010 by speedduelist

[JezMM]

Here is how i can sum it up :

Colors uses mommentum Physics

Unleashed does not.

Their for I like Colors more.

Generally speaking.

Colours HAS momentum physics. Whether it USES them is a bit of a different matter to me. The only time I remember them being used is to get yourself around the loop in the ferris wheel bosses before you grab some boost.

I also love how you summed up your opinion using a reason that is completely different from anything you've said thus far. D8

Edited December 1, 2010 by JezMM

[SilentDoom]

Here is how i can sum it up :

Colors uses mommentum Physics

Unleashed does not.

Their for I like Colors more.

Generally speaking.

Unleashed does use momentum physics. Every Sonic game has used momentum physics to an extent (heck even Sonic 4 and Sonic 06 have them, these just don't execute it too well). In fact, Colours' engine is almost identical to Unleashed's engine as far as physics go. The main changes are the light double jump, the slower but tighter drift and the generally better turning and jumping controls.

[Aquaslash]

Unleashed does not.

Bull slag. I remember very well needing jumping momentum to clear a bunch of night stages.

[Blue Blood]

Here is how i can sum it up :

Colors uses mommentum Physics

Unleashed does not.

Their for I like Colors more.

Generally speaking.

And now people aren't using the word "momentum" correctly. Wonderful.

Unleashed (both versions) has "momentum physics" too as you put it, but just like in Colours it never actually comes into play.

[Marcello]

Eh..I like Sonic Colours more than Unleashed in every way. I thought it was just more fun.

But then, I kind of hate Unleashed.

[ChikaBoing]

Unleashed reminded me of SA2.

Daytime Levels-Sonic and Shadow Levels

Nightime Levels-Mech-Shooting

Medal Collecting,Hub Worlds-Treasure Hunting Levels

Colours is kinda like Heroes to me, it has lots of re-used sections within a level/world ,an "gimmick",has many stop and go parts, within the normal Sonic gameplay, that's just kind of there.And is an overall less cinematic experience.

Differnce is Colors and SA2 controls are polished, Unleashed's and Heroes Controls aren't.

Edited December 1, 2010 by ChikaBoing

[speedduelist]

I just thought of some thing.

SEGA Should remove the SPEED PORTIONS OF SONIC COLORS AS A WHOLE, then we won't need Drifting or quick stepping or any racing game mechanic.

and even remove the boost.

the 2D Portions are Amazing. 3D Portions are great,

but what Sonic team needs to do is

"Sonic Unleashed with only the night time levels and NO Brawling".

That actually proves that platforming and explorations and mommentum physics could work in 3D.

And NO MORE EMPTY SPEED AREAS:

[Djawed]

Nah I think your idea fails Speedduelest. Sonic colors handles it really well if you ask me. It just needs a better engine so the controls (moving/platforming) in 3d won't feel so sluggish.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Jaouad

[Emmett L. Brown]

So...general consensus is that Unleashed did 3D Sonic gameplay better whilst Colors did 2D Sonic gameplay better? And if you liked the former more than the latter, then Colors is indeed a step down for Sonic gameplay.

I can totally dig that groove, daddy-o.

Incidentally, the way Sonic Colors completely fails to include God of War style gameplay sure is neat. I'm blown away every time it doesn't appear. And that part when Sonic fights sword-wielding enemies by, get this, rolling into a ball and thrusting himself at them instead of taking up a sword and trying to parry their swings. Ooh, and that part when he jumps when you press the jump button instead of charging up to jump based on how long you keep the button pressed - that was amazing! Who would've ever believed that the storybook series team worked on Colors?

[speedduelist]

So...general consensus is that Unleashed did 3D Sonic gameplay better whilst Colors did 2D Sonic gameplay better? And if you liked the former more than the latter, then Colors is indeed a step down for Sonic gameplay.

[Kuzu]

Ok I'll be the first to admit Colors was awesome, but it isn't godsend. Unleashed did some things better than Colors, and Colors did some things better than Unleashed.

[Djawed]

Sonic colors did however sorta destroy THE cycle, something that unleashed could dream of lol.

Nah but seriously. I disagree with sonic unleashed doing 3d better. When I think of sonic unleashed 3d I think of long portions of gameplay that I didn't enjoy at all. It may have looked awesome, it may have gone really fast. But in the end the gameplay wasnt all that interesting, actually kind of tedious most of the time. Platforming was worse since the controls were slippery as hell, the level design surrounded by botomless pits didn't really help and on top of that airboost and homing attack were asigned on the same button.

I enjoyed the little bit of 3d in colors more than unleashed's.

Stuff like this:

Edited December 4, 2010 by Jaouad

[JezMM]

I'm sorry Speedduelist, but did you seriously just suggest that they should remove the speed from Sonic games?

I loved Unleashed and I loved the Werehog personally, but that doesn't mean the Werehog-style gameplay should ever appear again, unless they bring back multiple characters anyway.

Edited December 4, 2010 by JezMM

[the blu blur]

I'm sorry Speedduelist, but did you seriously just suggest that they should remove the speed from Sonic games?

I loved Unleashed and I loved the Werehog personally, but that doesn't mean the Werehog-style gameplay should ever appear again, unless they bring back multiple characters anyway.

[JezMM]

I still would say slowing down to the point of the Werehog is a bit too much. Frankly I find Sonic Adventure kind of a bit too slow quite often too, so that comparison is a little lost on me as well. Plus so much of Werehog's platforming was centered around his stretchy arms I find it hard to imagine what they could do to keep it unique and interesting... Take out all the arms-related platforming bits and enemies in Werehog stages and you're left with... well, nothing but those dreaded square platforms.

Oh and -putthecolouronthepodium- puzzles.

I dunno. I'd rather they just put in difficulty modes and be done with it. So the 3D-phobic Sonic players can enjoy their lame Colours-style 3D platforming and weirdoes like me can have their hardcore Unleashed-style reaction test platforming. 8(

[Kuzu]

I dunno. I'd rather they just put in difficulty modes and be done with it. So the 3D-phobic Sonic players can enjoy their lame Colours-style 3D platforming and weirdoes like me can have their hardcore Unleashed-style reaction test platforming. 8(

[Sean]

Sonic Colors is annoyingly impotent when it comes to 3D platforming, but Unleashed's idiotic "react or die" design method isn't the way I'd like to see the game go, either.

[JezMM]

Ok now that was just low, do we make jabs at Unleashed?

Edited December 4, 2010 by JezMM

[speedduelist]

At least I acknowledged I'm a weirdo for liking Unleashed, what do you want from meeeee. Even most Colours fans admit the 3D platforming in Colours was lame. Because it was. Mostly due to there hardly being any of it.

Colors barley had 3D Platforming.

I don't think Speedualist is referring to a "complete removal of speed from 3D, nor the inclusion of the Werehog's mechanics. I think he is talking more about the openness of the Werehog's 3D stages in general. They still are focused on platforming in the end, when you get right down to it, and if they could just implement that in some way while combining it with a more balanced association with 2D sections, then I think we could have a winner.

That is exactly what i mean.

with the werehog camera system and controls, i don't think we would have any problems.

the 2D Portions are almost flawless, Time for some 3D Platforming and explorations.

Even the developers are struggling to make a 3D Sonic level design because they always wanted to not to add platforming or explorations in the 3D Enviroments.

(See that from Sweet mountain act 4-5-6).