Hey, Paisanos! Guess what Iizuka said today?

[azoo]

No it doesn't, not by a long shot, since when does the original idea ever turn out exactly as stated, development often changes what the original intentions are by a great deal.

Because he pretty much controls what will and will not pass. It especially is grating when there's an obvious flaw and the one that has the ability to let it slide or not slide thinks its all dandy.

You lot still think you're going to get different physics?

One could dream you know.

It isn't happening, Episode 1 has sold in such huge numbers and has already set the rules for how Sonic 4 as a whole product will be played, you think they're going to change that for the second part? Not likely to happen at all. It's the same vain as the homing attack removal argument, isn't likely to happen, why remove a feature from part 2 when it was so heavilly used in part 1? It's like taking a step backwards from what you had on offer in the first part regardless as to how many people can't get ove it and move on.

Nothing is absolute, bro. If they didn't want input to change the game then they wouldn't be paying these PR people to ask for what needs to be improved; unless if it's a big scheme to use the placebo effect and pretend they listened so they could give us the same thing and make us think it's been improved. Of course, this is flat out evil but it's not exactly unheard of in the world of business.

Or to put it another way, it's like playing the main game for something like oh I dunno, Fallout 3, then when the expansion packs are released, you change the gameplay to such a degree that it requires a re-learning of the gameplay in order to complete it.

Except most people agreed that Fallout 3 played pretty well. Not just fans, but critics and casual gamers are finding these issues with Sonic 4 quite unbearable as well. Maybe not all of them find it that way but a good bit of them do.

Bugger all until the final product comes out. I've found that with a lot of games these days, if you don't read every single interview or every single comment and just play the game fresh, you'll be a lot happier.

I tended to side with Sega and have a likening for the game before I got the chance to play it. Now... well, maybe you understand how I feel about the game now.

Sonic 4 as a final product is supposed to play on like one full game, with the exception of pleasing the moaners it doesn't make any sense for them to change much of the core gameplay at all unless they drop the 4 and replace it with a 5 at the end of the word Sonic.

Says who? Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it couldn't be done. You're basing it off of standards others have made. Sure it may be unlikely, but screw me over if that makes it impossible.

Any sensible person is never going to say ANYTHING bad about thier game. If anything, the mere fact that he's acknowledging the outcry against physics, even if his response is basically saying "it's fine, here's why you think that", is probably the best response you CAN get.

He's not going to say "yes we'll try harder next time", because that's speaking negatively against a game that he and the rest of SEGA want people to buy.

The thing is, I acknowledged this as well. In fact I did in the OP.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Azukara

[Scar]

In this title, we have not done a straight port of the gameplay [from the Genesis games], but rather updated it with actions which could not be done in the previous titles, like ceiling-running. These changes probably made for a different feel to the longtime Sonic fans. We’re happy for feedback like this, and we’ll make sure we can improve the quality even further in upcoming titles.

Did everyone completely miss this line?

Naturally he's going to defend their product because he wants it to sell. Thats business and it isn't going to change.

However, he did say that he was happy for the feedback and that they will improve quality.

[azoo]

But with the wishy-washy set of words he put along with that sentence, it makes it hard to understand; and almost to the point where we don't know what to believe. Can we honestly believe that Iizuka is full of heart in saying that they will fix the problems, or can we believe that he really thinks these "changes" are for the better and that he will only grab at issues not related to what we really want fixed?

Bascially what Blue Blood said below me. He needs to win our trust back.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Azukara

[Blue Blood]

Did everyone completely miss this line?

Naturally he's going to defend their product because he wants it to sell. Thats business and it isn't going to change.

However, he did say that he was happy for the feedback and that they will improve quality.

We'll have to wait and see what happens, but I'm still going to be forever-bitter about the way E1 turned out. The degree by which the quality needs to be upped is terrible. Iizuka needs to defend the game without an excuse that basically dismisses much of the criticism. Not only that, but he needs to win back our trust.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Blue Blood

[Cortez]

'Yeah your way is cool and all but ours is much better' is pretty much what that article is saying to me.

Maybe they think that if they tell us S4's physics are better than the classics enough times we'll believe them.

[Scar]

EDIT: I just realised what Iizuka meant by Ceiling running. Those awkward Convex curves on the ceilings that Sonic could somehow run along; even on the ceiling, is probably what he was referring to.

In which case, he's right. Also anyone else think that this whole physics debacle has gotten enough media attention to force the physics to be changed?

Seriously though, most critics have turned 180 after more of the physics complainst started to surface and started pointing them out. Considering that SEGA is maying attention to reveiws and critics now, you'd think that they'd be in a position where they would be forced to make the changes or suffer from incredible backlash.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Scar

[SHAX Hedgefox]

Can't run on ceilings?

I'm guessing Iizuka never even made it to the Star Light Zone, then. Or countless other zones.

[SykoTech]

Iizuka needs to be banned from the retro revival scene. After NiGHTS: JoD and now Sonic 4, it's pretty clear that he's not an expert on what made Sega's classic titles beloved in the first place.

Just stick with new stuff like Colors.

Oh my god guys leave the poor man alone. He's already done a damn sight more for the series' reputation than derp derp Heroes/Shadow/2006 holy grail Yuji Naka did.

What? I could have sworn Iizuka was behind Heroes and Shadow. And while Naka played a hand in Sonic '06, he wasn't lead designer or anything. Hell, he left before the game was done.

...not that Sonic '06 was ever "done".

[Spooky Mulder]

BREAKING NEWS! STOP THE PRESSES! THIS IS GONNA CHANGE EVERYTHING:

Iizuka is a dolt.

Honestly, has anything good ever come out of his mouth?

[Chaos Rush]

I love how he's pretending that Sonic 4's physics were decisions that were made for this game, even though they ported the physics directly from Sonic Rush...

And I think it's hilarious that he calls it "updated". Seriously, how the hell is uncurling an "update"?

[Sean]

Ceiling running. A remarkable update if I ever saw one, we've really come a long way from Genesis physics.

[MrROBOTO1988]

first point, he never said "improved," as a lot of people seemed to infer, he said "updated." not all updates are good things, as I'm sure any Microsoft or Facebook user will tell you.

second point, to be honest, the only thing that bothered me with the physics are the sluggishness and the fact that you have to hold a direction in the air in order to not plummet to the ground. I really don't care too much that you can jerry-rig sonic to stand on walls or ceilings, because you would never do that if you were just playing the game, you honestly have to try to do that. But I do want the sluggishness dealt with, and I don't believe that if they dealt with that it would really change how the levels need to be designed, even in Ep. 1. They could make that better, and patch Ep. 1, and then you could still have a seamless overall Sonic 4 experience. But that's just me

[Tiller]

I'm pretty sure he meant this:

And it's inverse:

Oh sure, it wasn't possible with the engine and there were very few curves like it. He's right about that. What he also fails to realize is the reason why the classics didn't do it in the first place...and it wasn't because of the tech.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Tiller

[Saint Nathan]

I'm pretty sure he meant this:

And it's inverse:

Oh sure, it wasn't possible with the engine and there were very few curves like it. He's right about that. What he also fails to realize is the reason why the classics didn't do it in the first place...and it wasn't because of the tech.

I'm actually convinced that you CAN run on ceilings in the classic games.

I mean, Carnival Night, at the very least, says yes.

Also if Sonic can run around a loop I'm having a hard time seeing how he can't run upside down.

[Blue Blood]

Sonic can run on ceilings in the classic games, but in any games build on the Rush engine (Rush, Rush A, Colours DS and of course S4), Sonic will not fall off the ceiling unless the player makes him. He'll just stay stuck to it like this until the player makes him jump or change direction. And that picture Galaxy Man posted is the perfect comparison of this behaviour. He shouldn't stick to those massive, 90° convex curves.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Blue Blood

[JezMM]

What? I could have sworn Iizuka was behind Heroes and Shadow. And while Naka played a hand in Sonic '06, he wasn't lead designer or anything. Hell, he left before the game was done.

...not that Sonic '06 was ever "done".

[Tiller]

I'm actually convinced that you CAN run on ceilings in the classic games.

I mean, Carnival Night, at the very least, says yes.

Also if Sonic can run around a loop I'm having a hard time seeing how he can't run upside down.

You can run on the ceiling ( I always think of Mushroom Hill after one of the lift things), but it was rare and there were never circular curves like the ones in my incredibly detailed pictures. The closest thing that comes to that is some pipes in Launch Base.

[EXshad]

Oh Iizuka, you lulzy bastard. He defends Sonic 4's engine, calling it better because Sonic's shoes have been encased in glue and he has Looney Tune-physics, yet ignores that fact that Sonic Colors, another game he produced, handles momentum almost as well as the classics do. Sure, it's a win for Colors, but is an overall fail on his part, given how Sonic 4, NOT Sonic Colors, was meant to be the one faithful to the classic games.

I say take the art style and moveset of Sonic 4 and base it around the Colors physics engine. That way, we can get a sequel to Sonic 4 that actually has momentum. Hell, if they did that from the beginning, perhaps Iizuka wouldn't have to be cramming those oh-so-delicious words down his poorly-translated gullet, and Sonic 4 wouldn't be the shining blue-print on how not to make a Sonic game.

Edited November 29, 2010 by EXshad

[ChikaBoing]

nah, colors handling in 2d would be bad for a pure 2d sonic plattformer.

Edited November 29, 2010 by ChikaBoing

[EXshad]

Well, I don't think so. Play the first few Sonic Simulator stages. They're redux versions of Green Hill Zone, Scrap Brain Zone, Spring Yard Zone, and a few others. And they work rather well! Or so I thought. Now imagine playing through those zones with the physics of Sonic Colors, but the moveset of Sonic 4 taking the plays of the Colors moveset (meaning Sonic only gets the spin roll/jump/dash and the homing attack). I think it could work quite well, if done right, and it could save the team a good amount of development time. Perhaps tweak it so everything's less floaty, but that's all I can think of, really.

But, once again, knowing Sonic Team, I doubt that'll happen.

Edited November 29, 2010 by EXshad

[ChikaBoing]

The only thing that Colors has going for it in terms of physics is momentum, not having rebound after doing homing attacks(God I hate that in Sonic 4),and better wall gravity IMO. In Colors it's a bit too stiff to turn around mid-air and on the ground and you, overall, have a bit too little air-control. For excessive exploration and backtracking Sonic 4's controls still work better IMO.

Edited November 29, 2010 by ChikaBoing

[LATER BUDDY]

...still clings on to the easy copy/pasta original engine with minor tweaks idea. I honestly don't know why you have to erase something that worked, especially when trying to continue the series from which it came, XD.

Sonic 4 does work, and I'm glad that someone stepped up to finally make it, but it hardly feels as natural as Sonic 1-K. If anything has taught me from awesome games, it's that incredible physics makes incredible gameplay for the most part. Like said a bajillion and one times, you could run on ceilings, so I obviously think it's just an answer that was spat-out-of-the-ass to try to give his new engine some better lighting. And hell, even if you couldn't, I'd still rather play a Sonic game where the half-pipe physics work right at least.

It's just frustrating how easy this should have been, to me at least. The one thing that's actually already there and works just fine, isn't used, X_x.

-Blur

[azoo]

It's just frustrating how easy this should have been, to me at least. The one thing that's actually already there and works just fine, isn't used, X_x.

So easy that one member on Retro has already been able to loosen air and ground friction, meaning that the loss of speed whenever letting go of the control stick has been fixed. He also added extra downhill rolling acceleration and switched the roll and Spindash sound effects.

If one person can do this then Sega is just plain lazy.

[Blue Blood]

So easy that one member on Retro has already been able to loosen air and ground friction, meaning that the loss of speed whenever letting go of the control stick has been fixed. He also added extra downhill rolling acceleration and switched the roll and Spindash sound effects.

If one person can do this then Sega is just plain lazy.

Cue the "it would have to go through extensive tests" excuse. And yes, that's most likely true. But why are these fixes even necessary? Why is there anything so horribly broken in the first place?

[azoo]

Cue the "it would have to go through extensive tests" excuse. And yes, that's most likely true. But why are these fixes even necessary? Why is there anything so horribly broken in the first place?