The Derailment of Knuckles the Echidna

[Kuzu]

Knuckles lately has been on a slippery slope of fail in recent years; Going from the 3rd most prominent character, to being relegated to cameos and spinoffs.

His character has suffered considerably, being nothing more than an idiot who shouts.

So I ask you, how we can help this poor Echidna?

Edited December 14, 2010 by Shadic93

[Diogenes]

1. Return focus to his duties. Don't have him showing up all the time with no explanation, like he's got nothing better to do. Work his duties into the story when possible/reasonable, even if it's something as little as "well if Eggman wins my island will be in danger so I've come to stop him".

2. Make him more than just the butt of jokes. He's always going to be a gullible hothead, but he needs to show positive traits, too. Use his strength to clear a path that others couldn't. Use his treasure hunting skill to have him find things others would overlook. Make use of his knowledge of the emeralds and/or echidnas. Stuff like that.

3. ...problem solved?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You should expect me and Dio to be one of the first (and second) people to respond.

So, we're doing a single character focus huh? We'll let me take Dio's first point and broaden it so it's air-tight.

One way to fix Knuckles is to take into consideration EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM! Which unfortunately Sonic Team has been neglecting since Heroes in favor of shoehorning him, especially when it's lampshaded in the game's ending that he isn't fully doing his duties.

Really, Angel Island and the Master Emerald back up such a huge chunk of his character that he quite frankly isn't Knuckles without it. And it's not like it's that hard to consider; it's pretty much child's play to have a throwaway line as to what his business is if, just like any other character, it matches the magnitude of the situation at hand. At the very least there would need to be an acknowledgement to the Master Emerald and/or the Island and what he's doing around and off the island to ensure its safety. You've pretty much killed off a large portion of suspicion just doing that, and barely anyone would question in.

The only flaw here is that overusing it calls for some creative brainstorming for how to continue to get away with it, and even then it wouldn't take much except for a double somersault of imagination to work a loophole around it...okay, on second thought a "double somersault of imagination" is actually a lot.

At the same time, he isn't a necessary character. Both Colors and Unleashed show how neither he, nor most of the other cast is needed. We can't just throw him in with the excuse simply being "because Eggman is on the loose, which might affect his island" (and a double emphasis on the word "might). That excuse can be thrown around for every character in this series in so many ways to the point where it isn't unique and we'll start at square one all over.

But really, at this point we have a TON of resources available that can work with Knuckles and his character to keep it intact. The only problem for some would be their egos in keeping what they like and thrashing what they don't like, especially when what they don't like could very well help the character in question. And why not take what you don't like and transform it into something you WILL like - and useful; in other words, killing something off isn't useful - in so that it isn't a bother. That's what I do with just about anything as their's always a potential that needs to be found.

For example, there are some who do not like the inclusion of GUN. What if you could very well use GUN to help Knuckles appear more? Have them secure the island as a protectorate, then you've not only solved the question of who's guarding the M.E. permanently, but from then on you don't need much of a reason to explain Knuckles' appearance in a future title.

Really, it's not that hard to do. But there are people who play favorites and merely want to forget about all this just because he's among the most senior of the cast. The hypocrisy in some those people is that a lot of them will turn around and demand other characters be tied to something that relegates their appearance despite having a Classic character in the same position.

Only one thing: the Emerald STAYS on the island. There's someone out their who WILL argue that Knuckles can take the M.E. with him, and I have to say that not only does that make the Emerald LESS save if he were to lose a fight and have it get stolen a lot easier, but the fact that his floating home island acts and another barrier for someone getting their hands on it...that, and said island falls without it which could likely make it even easier to invade if it's even more accessible.

Edited December 14, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Aquaslash]

I don't see why they don't have him pal up with someone like Mighty, who he's at least met before, and take turns guarding the gem depending on the circumstances. Or better yet, maybe leave the island down the next time it crashes.

His whole history is steeped in tribal foolishness anyway. The island only floats due to a freak accident cause entirely by the greed of his ancestors. He ought to keep the emerald with him or something. At lest then he could bust out the ol Emerald Power and kick ass with Super Sonic. Or kick Super Sonic's ass. Who cares, as long as it's awesome.

[azoo]

Knuckles should focus on his duties to protect the Master Emerald, but he shouldn't have to be chained to the M.E.'s throne in every game. For some reason a good bit of the modern Sonic canon seems to claim that this is all Knuckles does, even though classic Sonic canon shows Knuckles traveling and exploring across his island, chilling in Mushroom Hill and giving Sonic and Tails issues chasing down Egg Robo. Although indirectly through the OVA instead of game canon, he's also been shown to have a love for treasure hunting (could be considered a canon trait since the OVA was supervised and partially produced and directed by Yuji Naka and Noato Oshima).

He is crafty with putting up switches and booby traps (proven in Sonic 3), as well as having the ability to hide it anywhere on a gigantic floating continent; so if he was to go do something for his leisure or just hang with his fellas and play Kick the Can (a cookie if you get the reference), he'd have alot of advantages behind his tactics. Knuckles was at one point considered very wise and clever, which brings up the next point..

..which is that he isn't wise and clever now. He's a gullible hothead and a bumbling moron. They joke about this in every game and flanderize him to the underworld and back. This needs to stop. Knuckles, while being quite uninformed of the outside world and common modern culture, knows very much about ancient civilizations, his tribe's legacy, and Chaos energy probably more than anyone else (I mean come on, he freaking lives right beside all of it every day). Knuckles should be a quite complex character and he alone has tons of potential. The problem is, since SA1, they haven't really taken advantage of it besides his few perks in SA2.

Also using a more mature, less "dumb happy-go-angry guy" voice would help his personality a good bit. Dan Green does a good Yami Yugi but not a good Knuckles, and neither does his new soundalike VA. Scott Drier pulled it off rather well.

That's about it really. Oh wait, yeah, make him more of a rival to Sonic again rather than a buddy-buddy helpless Tails 2.0. Heck, not even Tails is that one dimensional now.

[Kuzu]

I could care less if Knux was classic or not. I just want him to have positive traits again.

And I like what you said about the M.E.; in Colors(DS) he said he left because he wanted to check it out, that seems plausible enough to me.

As for character, His Hot headeness shouldn't out weight his levelheadeness, and vice versa. Knuckles should only get pissed if: A. Someone is messing with him, or anything he cares about. and B. If he's fighting, Knuckles may not show it, but he loves to fight, its in his Blood, so naturally his blood would boil if he was in one.

Other than the above examples, he should be Calm, not Shadow levels of Stoic, but enough where he's more of a straight man to Sonic's cockiness.

[Rusty Spy]

Oh wait, yeah, make him more of a rival to Sonic again rather than a buddy-buddy helpless Tails 2.0.

I agreed with you up until here.

The only reason he was ever a "rival" to Sonic was because Sonic 3. He's a hothead with a short temper, yes, but if he's gonna constantly pick a fight with Sonic for no reason, then it'll only make him MORE of the "dumb happy-go-angry guy" that you wanted to avoid, and not only even MORE one-dimensional, but also apparently having either the memory of a bowl of porridge to be unable to remember that Sonic's on HIS side, or the angriest angry person who punches out a guy for so much as looking at him funny.

And you seemed to have instantly forgotten everything else about his character that you just spent the previous 3 paragraphs going over by saying Knuckles was no more than a 'Tails 2.0'.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I could care less if Knux was classic or not. I just want him to have positive traits again.

Aside from the neglect of the Island and M.E., he's had more positive traits than negative ones. I've not seen much of him personality-wise that is even slightly bad aside from his gullibility, and even that barely scratches the tip of the iceberg.

And I like what you said about the M.E.; in Colors(DS) he said he left because he wanted to check it out, that seems plausible enough to me.

I find it funny how the DS game did everything I said even if you were to neglect the M.E.

Remember one of the many times when I said "if you're going to free a character of something, you should be prepared to do so for EVERY other character?" Well, even if they didn't acknowledge the M.E. in Colors (DS), they did exactly that. So that's pretty much the only game where acknolwedging the M.E. is moot.

Mind you, I haven't played the DS version, but even if it was the Wii version, the fact that they did that would completely shut me up for that game about the M.E.

Edited December 14, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[azoo]

I agreed with you up until here.

The only reason he was ever a "rival" to Sonic was because Sonic 3. He's a hothead with a short temper, yes, but if he's gonna constantly pick a fight with Sonic for no reason, then it'll only make him MORE of the "dumb happy-go-angry guy" that you wanted to avoid, and not only even MORE one-dimensional, but also apparently having either the memory of a bowl of porridge to be unable to remember that Sonic's on HIS side, or the angriest angry person who punches out a guy for so much as looking at him funny.

Okay okay, I can see where you're coming from with this. Although the way you put it, you make it sound like "rival" means the same thing as "nemesis". Rival also mean a very very competitive friend and a relationship where the two may not exactly get along that well because of personality traits. Never did I say this meant he should be like Sonic X's Knuckles; which did nothing but yell, throw rocks and get hostile over nothing because he was a dumb brawny dude. I just imagine that they may be more competitive, and that Sonic may push Knuckles' buttons and vice versa. Sorry I didn't go into that.

And you seemed to have instantly forgotten everything else about his character that you just spent the previous 3 paragraphs going over by saying Knuckles was no more than a 'Tails 2.0'.

I thought it was clarified that I meant that nowadays he's mostly a Tails 2.0 while he has potential to be fixed in the ways I mentioned.

[Kuzu]

Okay okay, I can see where you're coming from with this. Although the way you put it, you make it sound like "rival" means the same thing as "nemesis". Rival also mean a very very competitive friend and a relationship where the two may not exactly get along that well because of personality traits. Never did I say this meant he should be like Sonic X's Knuckles; which did nothing but yell, throw rocks and get hostile over nothing because he was a dumb brawny dude. I just imagine that they may be more competitive, and that Sonic may push Knuckles' buttons and vice versa. Sorry I didn't go into that

A rival can also function as a nemesis, but in this case it doesn't. A rival is someone who can stand up to the Hero on equal terms, and can be an enemy or ally depending on the situation. Both Shadow & Knuckles fill this role, its just that Knuckles knows working with Sonic is usually the best course of action, even if he doesn't like it.Though Sonic & Knuckles rivalry has delved more into Viltriolic Best Buds(Go look it up on Tvtropes), they may argue and fight, but they're best friends.

[Badnik Zero]

Knuckles is Sonic's competitive rival.

They're friends, but the kind of friends who like to fight. They both have strong personalities and occasionally clash.

Shadow is Sonic's moral and hedgehog rival. He is the flip side of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Metal Sonic is the enemy rival. Literally Robotnik's Sonic.

Jet is Sonic's speed rival, at least when it comes to hoverboards. His purpose is kinda specific.

I think of it in terms of Power vs. Speed, or Hedgehog vs. Hedgehog, or Replica vs. Original.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Dabnikz

[agoodusername]

I personally think we should see a story that would actually require his presence, kind of like the Adventure and Rivals series, he's there because the Master Emerald is in danger, we need more of that, I suppose Eggman just really doesn't care about the ultimate source of energy anymore does he?

[The Weeb with No Name]

I have no idea what Iizuka will do with Knuckles in future main series games, let alone the rest of the cast beyond the mainstays.

[Mangoaxe5]

I really don't want Knuckles to comeback unless they plan on finishing his Sonic Chronicles storyline. Sonic Chronicles was the best thing to happen to Knuckles in a long time.

One things for sure Sega needs to stop making Knuckles act like an idot all the time.

[Blacklightning]

Enough of this fucking Master Emerald business.

I swear to god, whenever Knuckles does something that isn't "lie about and be useless", he gets instantly chastized for it because OMG NOOOOO WHO'S GUARDING THE M.E?????? People act as though everything he ever does and ever fucking will do has to be some kind of asspull excuse plot to shoehorn the M.E into the story before he even remotely has any justification to be there, and frankly, it's fucking stupid and tedious. The reason Knuckles isn't developing isn't because he spends too much away from that oversized gem, it's exactly because his "duty" is essentally to sit around on his fat red sunburnt ass and do nothing that causes him to go absolutely nowhere in the character department. That's not to say some of his other appearances haven't been even bigger asspulls in its absence (mostly '06), but for fuck's sake I'd give anything to see this retarded plot obstacle abolished once and for all. I don't fucking care how they do it - just shove it in his imaginary furry pockets and forget about it, smash the bloody thing into a million shards and hurl every individual piece into distant space so nobody on earth can abuse it, hell, just eat the fucking thing for all I care. Knuckles needs to move forward, and that goddamned gem is holding him back.

That said, I gotta agree it would be nice to see his Chronicles arc finished. But fuck, what are the chances of that happening now? I'm starting to think we're more likely to see a playable Marine appearance than a conclusion to Chronicles at this stage.

[Mick]

I really don't like how they haven't put Knuckles to good use. He was actually my favorite character at one point.

Yes, believe it or not he was. This was back when I was digging Sonic & Knuckles when it was new. Then my liking for Knuckles and Sonic in general fell off the radar sometime in the late 1990's and I didn't really really get back into Sonic circa 2006.

I think Knuckles should be put to better use in the upcoming Sonic game. He should be playable character. You know what would really help? He should play a major role in the next Sonic game. However, I doubt he'll fit in the story line in the next Sonic game.

[Sean]

He needs trickster traps. He needs an arsenal of bombs. He needs chuckles.

In other words make him go back to the way he was in S3&K and I'll start caring about him again. He was the original Sonic troll, and I'll never live that down about him. They briefly revived this aspect of him in Sonic Advance 2 (even if he was just a placeholder for Robotnik for one boss), which is about the only thing I liked about the game. And while I haven't played it, this apparently was his entire purpose in Sonic & Tails 2. What a douchebag.

[Badnik Zero]

Can I just say that the title topic reminds me of "The Exorcism of Emily Rose"?

[Octarine]

He needs trickster traps. He needs an arsenal of bombs. He needs chuckles.

[Glenn]

I really don't like how they haven't put Knuckles to good use. He was actually my favorite character at one point.

Yes, believe it or not he was. This was back when I was digging Sonic & Knuckles when it was new. Then my liking for Knuckles and Sonic in general fell off the radar sometime in the late 1990's and I didn't really really get back into Sonic circa 2006.

[Marcello]

He is crafty with putting up switches and booby traps (proven in Sonic 3), as well as having the ability to hide it anywhere on a gigantic floating continent; so if he was to go do something for his leisure or just hang with his fellas and play Kick the Can (a cookie if you get the reference), he'd have alot of advantages behind his tactics. Knuckles was at one point considered very wise and clever, which brings up the next point..

[Kuzu]

Pretty much this. It utterly baffles me how Knuckles ever came to be portrayed as so serious when the very first goddamn thing he ever did was punk Sonic out and then laugh at him. Look, I don't mind Knuckles being an idiot, since he's pretty much always been like that. I don't mind the games glossing over the Master Emerald... I'd like an explanation of what's going on there, but after so many years it's not exactly a priority to me anymore. What I do want is to see Knuckles' more playful side return, or at least be referenced. Just one S3&K-style laugh from him in a new game would make it an instant buy, I swear to god.

Isn't Sonic already the playful, chuckling one? It'd be boring to have two of the same character, and that was back when no one's character was really established yet. Knuckles was made serious, to contrast with Sonic's playful nature in later games.......Then Sonic X/Sonic Advance 2 came around.

[batson]

Perhaps slightly of topic but i'll just say this; the Sonic fanbase is the only fanbase i know of where a rather large part of it seems to be against the very notion that some characters should count more as main characters than others. If anyone in, say, the Futurama fanbase would argue that Bender shouldnt necessarily be given a bigger role than Hermes anymore, almost everyone else would be all like "what are you talking about? Of course Bender should feature more than Hermes, he's a main character and Hermes is a minor character!". But in the Sonic fanbase, whenever someone mentions that Knuckles should show up more often, a whole bunch of people will always go "but why should Knuckles be allowed to show up more often than, say, Cream or Espio or Big?".

Well, as far as I am concerned, on account of being (or, rather, having been) a main character in the series, Knuckles should indeed be granted appearances more frequently and more prominently than minor characters like the aforementioned. And for the love of God, dont ask me legitimize why he should be seen as a main character to begin with. He has been there since two years after the begining, he had a very major role in two of the four games that to this day defines the Sonic series in the eyes of the gaming community, he has been featured in other media more frequently and prominently than any other Sonic character sans Sonic, Eggman and Tails, he had his own self-titled comic book, he had his own game, he used to appear in far more games than any other character sans Sonic, Eggman and Tails, he is far more well known than any other Sonic character except those three, and he is pretty much the only character except those three that most people outside the hardcore fanbase even gives a rats ass about.

And personally, i believe that although perhaps none of those reasons alone grants a character "main character" status, they at the very least combined does precisely that. And on account of being a main character, it's only fair that old Knux should be allowed to show up "just for the sake of showing up", and certainly to do so a lot more often than a periphery character like, i dunno, Charmy.

Edited December 14, 2010 by batson

[supersonikku]

or just hang with his fellas and play Kick the Can (a cookie if you get the reference),

Cow and Chicken

Haven't really seen Cow and Chicken but I'm willing to bet its actually an 'Ouran High School Host Club' reference! Me and the missus thought Kasanoda was a dead-ringer for a humanised knuckles, appearance and personality wise. (google image search it) All the poor guy wants to do is play "kick-the-can"...

[yoshimar]

Knuckles is Sonic's competitive rival.

They're friends, but the kind of friends who like to fight. They both have strong personalities and occasionally clash.

Shadow is Sonic's moral and hedgehog rival. He is the flip side of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Metal Sonic is the enemy rival. Literally Robotnik's Sonic.

Jet is Sonic's speed rival, at least when it comes to hoverboards. His purpose is kinda specific.

I think of it in terms of Power vs. Speed, or Hedgehog vs. Hedgehog, or Replica vs. Original.

Wait a sec. Shadow also competes with Sonic, and more often gets in his face more than Knuckles does. Does this not apply to Shadow as a rival? ell except for the friend part lol.

Knuckles stoped competing with Sonic when Shadow came out and just became like a second best friend to him.

As for the topic, I like to see Knuckles grow outside of Sonic for once and be his own man, maybe a rival to Rouge or Omega and overall Sonic's confidant when things are to heavy for Sonci to handle alone.

As far as I'm concerned, Shadow is the new Knuckles in terms of being Sonic's anti thesis and arch nemesis. Shadow has yet to say a good or nice thing about Sonic, and concstantly looks down on him and his personality.

Edited December 14, 2010 by yoshimar