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yoshimar

New powers for Sonic characters.

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Weapons =! new powers. Shadow brought about Chaos Blast and Chaos Control, both fairly decent new powers for gameplay.

Drift, quickstep, boost, homing attack... they were all new powers at some point. Some for better, some for worse. Why shouldn't they add new powers.

Edited by Blue Blood

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Well, I dunno about that. From a gameplay perspective, "can pick up and use weapons" is a "power" as much as the spindash or boosting or wisp powers or what have you.

Hmm, that's not what I meant. I should have put "new powers =! weapons", to say you don't need weapons. A weapon definitely does add new new ability, but there's other ways of going about it.

Edited by Blue Blood

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Oh yes, weapon definitely =/= new power as you could play nearly the whole game without them.

New power = needed most of the time wich wasn't the case in ShTH.

SA1:

You needed the light dash to pass plenty of stage AND unlock stages.

You needed the shovel claw to dig themz emeralds

You needed the float belt to catch froggy at 1 or 2 stages (needless to say he had... 4? stages i think).

You needed the jet shoes to fly faster to not fall down in pits.

etc

SA2:

You needed the light dash bla bla bla.

You needed the Hover Booster for Tails and Eggman to continue the stages

You needed the cool sunglasses/eye scope to find themz emeruldz

You needed the fire find to continue stages

etc

SU 360/PS3:

You needed the stomping shoe to... (NO DUH!) stomp move to continue the stages

You needed the wall jumping shoe... do I need to continue explaining?

etc (2 more)

But ShTH?

Ignore X weapon and continue the game, omagad an alien!! Homming Attack or be a weak hedgehog and use guns cause ULTIMATE LIFE FORMS ONLY USE WEAPONS!!! or something like that....

I'm not saying using weapons is a bad thing but some people think they must absolutely use them wich is false.

Okay the weapons add variety to ways of defeating your enemies or you could plain simply have fun with it (look at the Billy Vaccum for example) but this to be called a power up? nuh hu, not to me it isn't.

Alright back to the main topic, .... I want some fully controllable spin moves: Spindash and rolling. Boosting is a great power up, no doubt about it but I want mah nostalgic blue ball of doom technique.

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Oh yes, weapon definitely =/= new power as you could play nearly the whole game without them.

New power = needed most of the time wich wasn't the case in ShTH.

What? No, it's a new power/power-up whether or not you need it. Knuckles' version of the light speed attack in SA wasn't needed, but it was still a new move and (in certain rare cases) a useful one. And the guns were even more useful and closer to required than that...

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Shovel claw were made for Knuckles to dig underground, the Maximum Heat was an optional power-up (my bad).

EDIT:

To me, weapons, mostly the guns, are tools, not power-up no matter what the game I play.

I pick up a bazooka, use it and throw it or just not use it and I can still play ShTH just fine.

He can perform the light dash already but if he didn't, that I pass by the Light Orb (like in SA1&2), okay I'll keep on playing just fine too but at some point in the game I will automaticly get screwed as I am missing a needed power-up to continue the game and not some shifting tool that can be obtained anywhere any time weather I destroy a robot, alien or G.U.N./Shadow crate.

Edited by Unholy Sønic

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To me, weapons, mostly the guns, are tools, not power-up no matter what the game I play.
That's just semantics. Hell, they're both tools, since they're used to accomplish some purpose, and powerups, since they make you stronger.

I pick up a bazooka, use it and throw it or just not use it and I can still play ShTH just fine.
So what are invincibility and speed shoes items? Whether or not you pick them up you can play the game just fine. Are they not powerups?

He can perform the light dash already but if he didn't, that I pass by the Light Orb (like in SA1&2), okay I'll keep on playing just fine too but at some point in the game I will automaticly get screwed as I am missing a needed power-up to continue the game and not some shifting tool that can be obtained anywhere any time weather I destroy a robot, alien or G.U.N./Shadow crate.
These are just different types of powerups; one required and permanent, the other optional and temporary.

And this was originally about "new powers", not "powerups", and being able to pick up weapons and use them against enemies was certainly a new ability for Shadow, whether or not you want to call them powerups.

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Also, give Amy a moveset similar to Advance 1. She doesn't need any new powers at all. Being crap makes her gameplay all the more fun.

slapyj.gif

I totally agreed with you until this. Being crap doesn't make gameplay FUN, it makes gameplay CRAP. I thought this was the most basic logic of games.

Really, what is wrong with making Amy FUN to play as? There's like a million good things you can do with a hammer. She could use both the hammer jump and that spiny divebomb thing. Her standard attacks can just make her bash enemies around, and at each other. She could get a powerup that makes her hammer super huge like in Advance 3 which cause an quake to stun all surrounding enemies. She can have a powerup that lets her throw her hammer boomerang style to hit multiple enemies.

And YES, give let her roll, and spin jump and be MODERATELY fast for gods sake.

News Flash: Amy SUCKED in Advance 1.

etc etc etc

How bout, New moves GOOD, guns BAD.

Edited by Black Spy

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slapyj.gif

I totally agreed with you until this. Being crap doesn't make gameplay FUN, it makes gameplay CRAP. I thought this was the most basic logic of games.

Really, what is wrong with making Amy FUN to play as? There's like a million good things you

And YES, give let her roll, and spin jump and be MODERATELY fast for gods sake.

News Flash: Amy SUCKED in Advance 1.

How bout, New moves GOOD, guns BAD.

I'm not gonna say suck, she's more of the hard mode of the game(Though for all the wrong reasons).

Wait, I'm confused, is this topic about new powers in general, or just from a gameplay standpoint?

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Wellll it depends on who's using the guns (Fang) and how they're implemented (useful but not overbearing)...

Way I figured, 2 characters should be allowed the use of weapons á lá ShTH.

Fang and Bean.

Fang is Fang, weapons, etc.

Bean is based on Dynamite Dux, which had a "pick up weapon, blow up everything" gameplay style.

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Wellll it depends on who's using the guns (Fang) and how they're implemented (useful but not overbearing)...

fine_jeez_by_nanopod-d2zzmqt.png

I'm not gonna say suck, she's more of the hard mode of the game(Though for all the wrong reasons).

aka: Fake Difficulty, thus, suck...... ok not TOTALLY suck but it sure as hell wasn't fun to play as her.

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That's just semantics. Hell, they're both tools, since they're used to accomplish some purpose, and powerups, since they make you stronger.

So what are invincibility and speed shoes items? Whether or not you pick them up you can play the game just fine. Are they not powerups?

These are just different types of powerups; one required and permanent, the other optional and temporary.

And this was originally about "new powers", not "powerups", and being able to pick up weapons and use them against enemies was certainly a new ability for Shadow, whether or not you want to call them powerups.

Aight Aight I get it....

No more weapons in games and don't put new permanent power, expand the already existing powers.

But.. is it possible to replace one power by another one?

If its possible, what can be replaced and by what power wich musn't be overpowered or purely spammable at any time/any place?

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His Chaos Spear, obviously. Though his Chaos Blast should only be used once at a time, and not spammable like in his game, a move that overpowered doesn't need to be used more than once.

Also make Chaos Control stop/slow time like in the boss fights, because skipping half a level is BORING.

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Really, what is wrong with making Amy FUN to play as? There's like a million good things you can do with a hammer. She could use both the hammer jump and that spiny divebomb thing. Her standard attacks can just make her bash enemies around, and at each other. She could get a powerup that makes her hammer super huge like in Advance 3 which cause an quake to stun all surrounding enemies. She can have a powerup that lets her throw her hammer boomerang style to hit multiple enemies.

And YES, give let her roll, and spin jump and be MODERATELY fast for gods sake.

I genuinely like playing as he like that. She's 'crap' in a thought out and logical way which just makes her hard mode. A hammer jump is always cool (Adventure 1), but the real charm of how she played in SA1 and Advance 1 was how she was the same but worse, and without unfair or unbalanced. All she really needs is a speed increase so as not to be annoyingly slow and a speed move more akin to the peel-out than spin dash.

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Says you! I liked watching him zoom all over the place!

Same here. I thought Chaos Control in Shadow's game was a cool addition to his gameplay. As long as there are no collect/destroy missions, else it just gets in the way.

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Tails... HOVER!

Knuckles... DRILL!

Shadow... BURST!

Silver... CUBE!

Big... FRENZY!

Amy... GAME OVER!

Okay, seriously. Anybody else reckon the Wisps were poorly-disguised explorations of other characters' abilities for a future game?

Or am I reading too much into this?

I admittedly also thought that Iizuka was testing the waters for Tails and Knuckles gameplay (Hover, Drill) and that the reason the word 'Sonic' in "Sonic got through Act X" in Sonic 4 is a separate text object is due to the fact that the string will be replaced with 'Tails' and 'Knuckles' via Objective C Programming when Sonic 4 Episode 2 is initially developed for the iOS. :blink:

Edited by Segakid

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Same here. I thought Chaos Control in Shadow's game was a cool addition to his gameplay.
No way, it suuuucks. There's enough automated shit in the games already; the last thing we need is a move that is literally just "watch Shadow fly towards the goal". At least repackaging the laser wisp as Chaos Control gives you some choice of where you'll shoot off to. Hell, even if it was just a time-slowing effect like in ShtH's bosses, there'd be ways to make it a useful and interesting move...

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You know, I don't really understand why people associate Knuckles with the Drill power. As far as I remember, Knuckles has never drilled like Sonic does with the Yellow Wisp; the most he has done in gameplay is digging the ground looking for items. I can't really picture Knuckles drilling through the ground with the same speed and maneuverability that Sonic has in Colors, while climbing walls and gliding are his most defining abilities. Sure, we don't really have climbing or gliding Wisps in the game, but I don't see why people think Knuckle should replace the Drill power...

No way, it suuuucks. There's enough automated shit in the games already; the last thing we need is a move that is literally just "watch Shadow fly towards the goal". At least repackaging the laser wisp as Chaos Control gives you some choice of where you'll shoot off to. Hell, even if it was just a time-slowing effect like in ShtH's bosses, there'd be ways to make it a useful and interesting move...

I did enjoy watching Shadow fly towards the goal, plus it's not like you could use it often. But I'm not saying that move should necessarily come back, and giving more control over the direction would certainly be a good thing.

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You know, I don't really understand why people associate Knuckles with the Drill power. As far as I remember, Knuckles has never drilled like Sonic does with the Yellow Wisp; the most he has done in gameplay is digging the ground looking for items. I can't really picture Knuckles drilling through the ground with the same speed and maneuverability that Sonic has in Colors, while climbing walls and gliding are his most defining abilities. Sure, we don't really have climbing or gliding Wisps in the game, but I don't see why people think Knuckle should replace the Drill power...
But, isn't that kind of the point of the topic? Giving characters new abilities? And even though it wasn't used like the drill, Knuckles is already associated with digging thanks to the Adventures, and this is a way to turn it from a slow treasure hunting ability to a fast-paced "platforming" sort of power. Just imagine him doing something like SA2's drill dive, but actually drilling through the ground.

I did enjoy watching Shadow fly towards the goal, plus it's not like you could use it often. But I'm not saying that move should necessarily come back, and giving more control over the direction would certainly be a good thing.
Sure, it looks nice, but like all automated sections, that's all it's got going for it, and it doesn't last. And even with more control, anything that amounts to just flying over large chunks of the level at high speed is not good design, in my eyes.

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I genuinely like playing as he like that. She's 'crap' in a thought out and logical way which just makes her hard mode. A hammer jump is always cool (Adventure 1), but the real charm of how she played in SA1 and Advance 1 was how she was the same but worse, and without unfair or unbalanced. All she really needs is a speed increase so as not to be annoyingly slow and a speed move more akin to the peel-out than spin dash.

Although I'm not a huge fan of Amy Rose, I did think her gameplay was a nice addition in Sonic Advance, so I totally agree! :)

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It would be interesting if Tails would grow more tails when he's in his 'Super' form after getting all the Chaos Emeralds. I would love to play as a nine-tailed Tails.

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It would be interesting if Tails would grow more tails when he's in his 'Super' form after getting all the Chaos Emeralds. I would love to play as a nine-tailed Tails.

There'd be a lawsuit, alas. ;)

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