Are Mario Games Starting to Decline?

[Solid SOAP]

Most definitely not; Super Mario Galaxy is my all-time favorite Mario game yet and Super Mario Galaxy 2 was even more fun albeit not quite as memorable in the production values department. I liked New Super Mario Bros. on the DS although I didn't love it, and I thought that New Super Mario Bros. Wii was pretty fun to play multiplayer-wise, although it's hard to argue that it was a pretty cheaply made game. In other words, Mario has never been better when it comes to 3D platforming, but I wish that Nintendo put more effort into music and visuals when it comes to the 2D games. Otherwise I have never been happier with the franchise.

Also, I just picked up the 25th anniversary pack the other day, which I'm pretty happy with. Super Mario All-Stars, plus a few extra goodies. Nothing amazingly spectacular, but I never got to play All-Stars as a kid so I'm happy to be able to play these classics with improved visuals.

[Diogenes]

Yes, I feel like the Mario series is starting to decline. Honesty I was never really impressed with any of Mario's mainstream games including the Galaxy games which I picked up used. My first impressions were "This feels just like Mario 64 with more levels and power-ups" the game wasn't bad, But I didn't believe it deserved the high scores it received from the media, but that's just me.

What do people actually expect of Mario? You can't revolutionize a genre/medium with every game you put out. Making a game that "feels just like" one of the greatest games of all time, with more stuff in it, doesn't sound like much of a decline.

[Ekaje]

Personally, I think LBP is a really good indicator that the industry understands the stagnation of platformers. No better way to get the creative juices flowing for originality than to open up development to the imagination of the user.

I never said that great platformers were gone, just that the ones of today are a bit harder to find then yesterday, and that the ones we do have are often diluted by their own alternate gameplay styles.

I don't think they're declining so much as that they're no longer as prominent as they once were. In the 8- and 16-bit eras, there were platformers everywhere, while now FPSs and Action games are more popular.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Ekaje

[Scar]

What do people actually expect of Mario? You can't revolutionize a genre/medium with every game you put out. Making a game that "feels just like" one of the greatest games of all time, with more stuff in it, doesn't sound like much of a decline.

Innovation is not the issue here, I just don't want to walk down to my Local GAME store in 5 or 6 years to find "Super Mario Galaxy 3" or "Super Mario Galaxy 4".

That would just be really, really dumb.

[blackherox]

In the past five to six years we've had four Ratchet and Clank titles, two Sly games, and LittleBigPlanet. And that isn't even close to all we've had.

All this talk about platformers dying as of late often comes from people either being ignorant of other consoles with great platforming titles or simply not paying attention.

It's not that platformers aren't there, just that there appear to be dwarfed in importance and interest by FPS' and Party games.

[Patticus]

Innovation is not the issue here, I just don't want to walk down to my Local GAME store in 5 or 6 years to find "Super Mario Galaxy 3" or "Super Mario Galaxy 4".

That would just be really, really dumb.

Super Mario Galaxy did really well for itself, so Mr. Miyamoto did something he doesn't often do nowadays: he went and created a direct, numbered sequel to it, building on the first game in all kinds of different ways. The game was like a great big hug to everyone who finished Galaxy 1 wanting more of the same. What isn't going to now happen, however, is a raft of similar sequels over the coming years riding the Galaxy wave. What we will most likely see is the developers taking what they learnt from the Galaxy games and hopefully applying those lessons to more traditional or equally/more outlandish Mario titles.

As for the idea that Mario is starting to decline: The idea is ridiculous. It is not Mario who is in decline, his games are as brilliant as (if not better than) they've ever been. They are the best, most accomplished 3D platformers in existence as of 2010! What is changing are gamers' tastes, and that comes naturally to us all at some point with various series', but it's not everybody's tastes that are changing, just yours, which is perfectly fair enough.

[Tori Himemiya]

I feel like Mario has been declining for a while now.

Why?

They just have been giving us the same games just with more gimmicks.

Mario Galaxy is more or less Mario Sunshine's special stages or whatever they are. Mario Galaxy 2 is Super Mario World more or less. New Super Mario Bros. Wii is New Super Mario Bros. just on the Wii which is the original Mario Bros. with gimmicks.

The last original Mario game that came out recently is Mario and Luigi 3. So I really do feel like he has been declining a lot.

[Diogenes]

How dare a Mario game be like a Mario game.

[Sean]

Mario, declining!? I have so much fun with the latest platformers (bar New Super Mario Bros.) and RPGs (bar Partners in Time), I don't know where to fucking begin. The notion of a decline is just flat-out ridiculous.

And asking for a plot in a Mario game is too much. I think Sonic fans are spoiled with their serious/light-hearted storylines that these same expectations carry over.

[Agent York]

Well, if you want to get technical, Mario still has a lot of ground to cover before he can call it quits(...)dating sim...

On that Dating Sim one, Mario's done it..

[Arioch]

Are Mario Games starting to show signs of steady decline?

He's not on the decline as much Metriod, but he's getting there. Despite what people say I found more enjoyment out of Sunshine then I did the first Mario Galaxy. If they hadn't released a second Mario galaxy I would have agreed with you. Aside from the RPG's, which are always enjoyable, I find repetitiveness in Mario games. It seems that they're always streaming from Mario64 (which is still the best Mario game) or from the original roots that put Mario in his position.

[AdventChild]

In decline? Don't think so. Even though I've stated before that I'm more of a RPG and fighting gamer, I still like platformers like Mario games and both Galaxies are very good. However, Mario games are driven mostly by gameplay rather than story but the RPGs have a decent story as well as good gameplay. Though it depends on the matter of taste. You may not like Mario anymore or thinking he's in decline, but not everyone else thinks so. Heck, I think the same way for Sonic despite Sonic Colors getting high scores, but I've lost nearly all interest in Sonic games long ago.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

You know I'm beginning to wonder if asking this question was such a good idea.

Edit: Wow someone out there doesnt like my comments that much.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Enigma2

[Carbo]

You know I'm beginning to wonder if asking this question was such a good idea.

I wouldn't say it wasn't. It provides an interesting discussion topic, one which I myself sometimes muse over whenever I reccount the fact that my Galaxy relationship has been incredibly love/loathe. Even then most of a question like that you'd ask will inevitably be met with mostly opinions, and it's easier to love a Mario game considering they're probably the most well-made, yet accessible games you can get into and get even progressively so as time goes, but still retains the things that made him good to begin with.

While the Galaxy games are incredibly well built and I can definitely see why people love them, the first game has in my opinion, some of the most boring level design I've come to expect from a Mario game. They're fun the first round and incredibly majestic, but they're terribly lacking on replay value, succumb to quickly-aging novelty and riding on just charm to get points, and even the more fleshed out non-linear levels were more cramped up than 64 or Sunshine. Then again, it was the same impression I got from the Sunshine bonus levels which apparently everyone loved, and I just thought as a simple "oh well okay this is okay just this once". In that regard, Galaxy 2 excels in making those kind of levels fun for multiple playthroughs, but the fact that it exists is an interesting indicator of how Nintendo seems to operate at this point, way too much in a comfort zone.

I'm definitely in the norm here since my opinion on the Galaxy games would have had to be looked at from an entirely other kind of perspective, but at this point I'd say Galaxy 2 is to Galaxy 1 what Sonic Colors was to Sonic Unleashed. So yeah, I'd mostly reffer to what Yahtzee said about Galaxy 2, along with the review, when it comes to what point I speak of in regards of the term "decline". It doesn't necessarily have to reffer to one's opinion of the game, cause like Yahtzee as well, I like it, but that's a different subject.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Carbo

[SuperStingray]

Yes, I feel like the Mario series is starting to decline. Honesty I was never really impressed with any of Mario's mainstream games including the Galaxy games which I picked up used. My first impressions were "This feels just like Mario 64 with more levels and power-ups" the game wasn't bad, But I didn't believe it deserved the high scores it received from the media, but that's just me.

Mario 64 and the Galaxy games are nothing alike, at least in level design. Mario 64 is open and has distinctly themed worlds uniquely characterized through their theme and shape, where Galaxy is linear and is composed of distilled ideas literally put in a vacuum and built on shapeless, surreal surfaces so they don't need to be restricted by context. I guess if anything, the closest Mario 64 comes to being Galaxy-esque is Rainbow Cruise. But really, of all the Mario games out there, Mario 64's level design reminds me the most of Sonic where the Galaxy games' are the most pure Mario.

Sunshine... that's really neither. Of all of Miyamoto's games, that one feels the least Miyamoto-y. Every level is extrapolated from the SAME basic theme, the structure is thick and terrestrial rather than compact and surreal. The bonus stages, I'll give it, feel like a combination of Galaxy and Super Mario Bros. 1 in their linearity mixed with their amorphous form. But outside that... it's a decent game that looks a lot better in retrospect than actually being played but hardly Mario.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Not yet.

Wait for Miyamoto to kick the bucket first.

[SuperStingray]

Not yet.

Wait for Miyamoto to kick the bucket first.

Knowing Nintendo's reliance on that guy, they're probably funding research on immortality solely for that purpose.

[LimeTH]

Well, if you want to get technical, Mario still has a lot of ground to cover before he can call it quits, FPS,

[Solid SOAP]

I would totally play a Wiimake of this with motion controls.

[Saint Nathan]

The idea is laughable.

Mario is in no amount of decline at all. When you have a limited edition of Super Mario All Stars on the Wii, that is pretty much the SNES version, and within a very small timespan it can become as expensive as four hundred dollars, that's not decline.

Mario is on an incline, especially now. Super Mario Galaxy 2 was the best, and I do mean the best, platformer ever. Ever. I will physically fight anyone who disagrees. The worst Mario game is fucking Galaxy 1, and it's still mind-blowingly good.

I mean the only complaint I'm hearing here can be summed up as "Mario games all follow a formula that consistently works and creates games that are instant classics, but they all use the same formula so they're in a decline even though they're getting better."

Not in a decline.

[Conando]

Santa Man/Galaxy Man pretty much answered the question for me. Mario is by no means in a decline, not even close. Following a winning formula and adding small innovations, retaining the same great quality, is a pretty poor definition of decline.

[Scar]

Santa Man/Galaxy Man pretty much answered the question for me. Mario is by no means in a decline, not even close. Following a winning formula and adding small innovations, retaining the same great quality, is a pretty poor definition of decline.

Level design is definately awesome.

Mario Games will probably start declining after Miyamoto kicks the bucket. Sure they'll have the talented programmers and stuff to make good games, but they'll probably start to lack the charm. I hope not, but Nintendo's reliance on Miyamoto is frightening.

[speedfreak]

The worst Mario game is fucking Galaxy 1

I agree with the rest of what you said though.

[Saint Nathan]

I agree with the rest of what you said though.

The US version of Mario 2 dosen't count because that's not even a Mario game.

I am very strict on that point. Other than that, I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you mean Sunshine. Then I need to fight you.

[speedfreak]

The US version of Mario 2 dosen't count because that's not even a Mario game.

I am very strict on that point. Other than that, I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you mean Sunshine. Then I need to fight you.

I actually think Galaxy is better than most of (if not all of) Mario's other games. I prefer it to SMB, Lost levels, 2, 3, World, 64, Sunshine, NSMB DS/Wii, though I do go back and forth on liking Galaxy 1 or 2 more. Oh well, shall we take this outside then?