Jump to content
S0NIC-Keyblade 007

Your opinion on human and furry relationships in the Sonic series?

Recommended Posts

Alright before I even start talking, can we all please get the infamous SonicxElise kiss out of our minds for 5 minutes? I want to have a serious discussion before people start bashing that scene as if it permanently scarred the Sonic franchise. What's your opinion about Sonic characters having friendships or connections with human characters? We first saw this in Sonic Adventure 2 where the series started to go in a more serious direction than previous games. Maria was pretty much Shadow's friend/mother figure and ended up dying thus causing shadow to seek revenge on humanity, but after he remembered his promise to her, Shadow decided to save humanity. I like how Shadow's and Maria's relationship was handled in SA2 because it gave Shadow a back-story and a reason for all of his actions in that game, if more furry-human relations were handled the way they were in SA2, then I wouldn't really have a problem with them. We see the furry-human relationship return in the anime spin-off Sonic X. In Sonic X Sonic befriends a ten year old boy named Chris. Chris seems to pretty much replace Tails's role as Sonic's best friend throughout the series. Unfortunately, Chris and the other human characters seem to take up a lot of screen time and over shadow the main characters throughout the series in season one and two. I didn't think the human charcters were handled all that well in Sonic X due to that issue. And last but not least is Sonic 06 where we see the infamous Sonic and Elise relationship. Alright I'll be honest, personally, I didn't mind seeing Sonic have a friendship with Elise, but seeing Sonic slowly fall in love with her (or anybody for that matter) I thought it was very out-of-character and looked ridiculous. However, I'm not one of those people who are are gonna whine about the kiss scene near the end of the game. I actually didn't mind it really, it was more of a breath of life sort of thing anyway, that scene wasn't aiming to portray any sorta of romance at all but a heart warming Super Sonic entrance. But I will say this, I would rather see Sonic with Elise than Sonic with Amy. :rolleyes: Anyway I didn't really hate the Sonic and Elise relationship nor like it, I'm pretty neutral on it. So what are your opinions about Sonic furries having friendships with humans, or human characters having a big role in the story at all. Do you like it? Hate it? Or don't really care at all?

Edited by S0NIC Toadstool

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with human furry relationships since it's not real life.

My problem with the Sonic and Elise relationship is how badly written it is.

Edited by Darkfox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people will say that we shouldn't have humans at all. Unfortunately for them, they seem to neglect mentioning that Eggman is a human or instead want to make him the only exception. :rolleyes:

On the subject as a whole, there isn't really anything wrong with having humans befriend the mobians/anthros/furry Sonic cast. We have Shahara/Merlina who unlike Elise is actually pretty well liked as far as other humans go. And then we have Prof. Pickle who, although isn't talked about negatively, is pretty decent as far as humans go.

And if we really wanted to stretch it, there's Sera from the OVA. As far as her appearance goes, she's more human than she is anything else, and the only reason people justify it would be her cat tail and ears making her an exception. I guess it's because she's actually well liked that people are willing to let it slide, as I can't see how the few animal parts she has is enough to make her that much unlike a human.

Really, a lot of anti-human sentiment came from Sonic 06, despite having humans around since SA1. I can't really say I would find anything wrong with relationships between human characters and Sonic characters. I'd say it depends on how it's done, but with Sonic 06 still lingering around in bad taste, it'll be a while should we get human characters romantically involved with the Sonic cast. Not that I think it's something to consider at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And sweet mother of giant paragraphs Toadstool, try hitting enter once and a while.

Haha, I'll think about it. :lol:

And if we really wanted to stretch it, there's Sera from the OVA. As far as her appearance goes, she's more human than she is anything else, and the only reason people justify it would be her cat tail and ears making her an exception. I guess it's because she's actually well liked that people are willing to let it slide, as I can't see how the few animal parts she has is enough to make her that much unlike a human.

Oh I completely forgot about Sera, didn't she actually have feelings for Sonic? Despite her animal features I think its unfair that Elise gets bashed so badly when Sera doesn't get much criticsm. Do you think Sonic 06 being such an epic fail may be the reason for some unfair bias thoughts towards Elise?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I completely forgot about Sera, didn't she actually have feelings for Sonic?

Yes she did...and it doesn't help in knowing that Tails inadvertently coped a feel on her either.

Despite her animal features I think its unfair that Elise gets bashed so badly when Sera doesn't get much criticsm. Do you think Sonic 06 being such an epic fail may be the reason for some unfair bias thoughts towards Elise?

Yes, and they're not really unjustified. Elise has a character that was generally bland if not poor. Her being kidnapped SIX times in one game didn't do her any favors, making her more of a really bad equivalent of Princess Peach for the Sonic series.

I can't really see where the kiss makes shit THAT worse, but I can say that it's because of her portrayal that the bias against humans in general really flared up. But some people are really offended by her character, so I can't really speak for everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with human furry relationships since it's not real life.

My problem with the Sonic and Elise relationship is how badly written it is.

I'm (roughly) the same. As long as a character is well-written and well-rounded, I wouldn't care if they were an octopus from the moon or a talking spade, let alone a human.

And I also kinda liked Princess Elise in the end, which is massively unlike me! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the humans in the Sonic game series for the portrayal that funny animal characters with moderate superpowers are something to be completely indifferent about, yet Sonic is still a celebrity. And if we're gonna talk trash about something from Sonic 06 (which is totally justified), then let's remember one of the very few good things about it: Sonic Man! That guy was hilarious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if we're gonna talk trash about something from Sonic 06 (which is totally justified), then let's remember one of the very few good things about it: Sonic Man! That guy was hilarious.

Entirely seconded. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind humans, really. I think they have a place in Sonic's world and in the stories. They can interact with the main characters just like any other character.

I would actually like to see characters like the president again.

When I first saw Sonic Adventure 2, I didn't care much about Shadow. When playing the game, it was actually his relationship with Maria that made me like him. I still think the way he says "Maria..." when losing a life is very cute.

I don't hate Sonic X and I don't hate Chris; I don't have much problem with the humans in that show, aside from the fact that they have too much screentime, but I don't think that's the main problem of the show.

As for Elise, well, I rather like her. I actually liked most of Sonic 06's story, even if Elise did get captured too many times, and I found the kiss scene disgusting.

(I wouldn't want to see Sonic in love with Elise, but since I don't like Amy, I chose Elise during the "test of love" mission)

And last but not least is Sonic 06 where we see the infamous Sonic and Elise relationship. Alright I'll be honest, personally, I didn't mind seeing Sonic have a friendship with Elise, but seeing Sonic slowly fall in love with her (or anybody for that matter) I thought it was very out-of-character and looked ridiculous.

I never saw Sonic falling in love for Elise... The opposite yes, but on Sonic's side, the only thing I can see is the test of love, where the choice is left to the player. I actually think they did a good job not showing any particular feeling from Sonic, so that it may be left open for interpretation.

Her being kidnapped SIX times in one game didn't do her any favors, making her more of a really bad equivalent of Princess Peach for the Sonic series.

Six? I've always counted five. :unsure:

Edited by Core

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me and my good friend Lucky Winters had a long conversation concerning this some time back and both agreed that relationships in the Sonic series akin to Sonic and Elises' interactions including the kiss are blown beyond all proportion controversy-wise. The controversial aspect of Elise kissing an animal are mostly negated by the fact that whilst Sonic is a hedgehog and she a human, he has nothing in common with actual hedgehog's that would justifyingly generate such a squick response. All I see is squick in concerns to mere difference in species and the fact that Sonic was dead whilst he was kissed, you know, because apparently various publications love to pour scorn on Sonic himself for sharing saliva with a human female despite the fact that he himself never actually instigated it, being dead and all at the time. But then that's not the point.

Lets take a look at Sonic shall we? What does he have in common with Hedgehogs? Spines? Check! Penchant for bread and milk? Ermm...no. Penchant for anointing himself? No again. Hankering to sniff out slugs and other insects in back gardens and hedgerows? No again. Non-sentience? Sonic obviously expresses himself via speech and shows time and time again that he has a perfect sentience and human emotional capacity. He's just as human as other humans sans his species and frankly, I find that difference maybe a little too minor to truly justify such a widespread squick response ESPECIALLY within the series' viewpoint itself as to my memory, A human GUN soldier has the hots for Rouge. Not to mention that in Unleashed, certain NPC's have a hearty admiration for Sonic including one Louie Montaine in Empire City's Hub.

However, I WILL agree that Sonic and Elises' "romance" if you can call it that definatly generated an understandable reaction by the uncanny valley factor. It certainly does look weird and the way Sonic was handled throughout '06 to cater to Elises' emotional burdens justifyingly generates a 'meh' response. I also questioned the supposed absolute requirement for a kiss that the ressurection scene required. It was awkward going by uncanny valley, the fact he's dead and the game's awkward "romance" but not for the reason of species difference. At least to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people will say that we shouldn't have humans at all. Unfortunately for them, they seem to neglect mentioning that Eggman is a human or instead want to make him the only exception. :rolleyes:

Well, Yuji Naka recently confirmed that that was indeed the original idea; that Eggman would be the only seen human character (and the fact that he happened to also be the bad guy would further the environmentalist theme of the series).

Personally though, i have no problems with other humans as long as they can be made interesting. Of course, it takes a lot of personality for a regular human to appear interesting when seen aside talking animals with superpowers, and the humans that have managed that so far in the series can probably be counted on one hand and still leave you with fingers left over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, Yuji Naka recently confirmed that that was indeed the original idea; that Eggman would be the only seen human character (and the fact that he happened to also be the bad guy would further the environmentalist theme of the series).

Really? Well that's kind of ironic how he allowed more humans in SA1 and 2, don'cha think. Even tho they're NPCs...

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Words of wisdom.

I agree with basically all of this. It ain't bestiality if both parties are sentient, and the anthropomorphic animals in Sonic's world clearly are (whether Elise is is up in the air, hurr durr). From a purely objective standpoint, a relationship between a human and an anthropomorphic animal is no different from the relationship between Superman and Lois Lane or the Doctor and [insert non-Romana companion here]. Whether such a thing is palatable is a matter of personal taste and art direction, but there's really nothing wrong with the concept. I actually might not mind seeing a background human/furry couple, since in a world where both existed there'd inevitably be some, er, intermingling. I do love my world-building, even if Sonic Team doesn't.

...the Sonic/Elise thing in '06 was a disaster, though. I'm even one of the few people who kind of like Elise, and I still found every scene between her and Sonic completely awkward. '06's "realistic" art style obviously didn't do the idea of a human/hedgehog relationship any favours, and the lousy dialogue didn't help matters. The horrid animation in the in-engine cutscenes made things even worse, too: the relationship between Sonic and Elise was less hedgehog/human and more puppet/zombie. Eww.

As for the general presence of humans in the series, I say keep 'em coming. I was initially quite hostile to the concept of Sonic's world being so heavily populated by humans, but that feeling wore off pretty quickly and at this point I'd hate for Sonic Team to backpedal. I was actually kind of disappointed that I didn't get to see any humans enjoying Eggman's Interstellar Amusement Park in Colours; I hope their absence is just a symptom of Colours' streamlined story and not a sign that Sonic Team is trying after so long to retcon humans out of the setting. That said, I want to see some furry NPCs in addition to the human ones, just as a sign that not every anthropomorphic animal in Sonic's world is contractually bound to become a superhero. Any game that includes Completely Ordinary Guy the Hedgehog in the background will immediately get full points from me.

Edited by Octarine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From a purely objective standpoint, a relationship between a human and an anthropomorphic animal is no different from the relationship between Superman and Lois Lane or the Doctor and [insert non-Romana companion here].

Way too human. If you want a better comparison, how about this:

Human X Asari

Human X Turian

Now where were the folks who complained about Sonic X Elise when Mass Effect brought these relationships with Aliens out? More than likely defending it while folks who weren't into video games were attacking Mass Effect for this.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind humans. I'm fine with them being involved with the story. Hell, it wouldn't even bother me if a human was playable (as long as they were done right).

How is that? Easy, Eggman. He's human, heavily involved in the story, and been playable a few times (mech-shooting in SA2 wasn't very fun, but let's save that for another topic). However, there is a major difference between Eggman and the other humans. One that makes it fine for him to be involved, not not the other humans. Eggman actually looks like a Sonic character.

The humans in Adventure/Shadow/06 are 100% generic. Aside from Gerald's similarities to Eggman, nothing about the other humans makes them stand out as Sonic characters. You could copy n' paste characters like the President, GUN Commander, and Elise into any other typical "realistic" game, and I wouldn't be able to tell they were suppose to be in Sonic titles. They just don't fit in with the designs of the other Sonic characters, and look like they belong in another world entirely.

The humans in Unleashed/Chronicles were better. I didn't cringe at Prof. Pickles' interactions with Sonic and Tails, because he somewhat fit in with their style. But it still wasn't perfect. Most characters looked like they belonged in a Pixar film rather than a Sonic title, and Sonic's artstyle is a bit different from Pixar's.

They need to make humans look like...y'know, ACTUAL Sonic characters. Characters that could look natural interacting with the "furry" cast and could even be playable without being jarring. Eggman can do this nicely, but everyone else....no.

I don't see what's stopping Sega. Eggman aside, they've also made these guys:

971495-billy_large.jpg

tgs_sonic3_32.png

^Human Sonic there has a bit too much gear on for my taste, but their overall designs stand as humans that could fit in just fine with Sonic and the other anthros unlike the Gran Theft Auto/Final Fantasy rejects. Keep the style consistent, please.

But if they can't do that, then I'd rather they just cut off human interactions then. Reducing the entire species down to just Eggman does sound a bit...limiting, but I'd much rather have it that way then to have more dull, soulless characters like this guy get screentime.

180px-GUN-Commander.png

Yuck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for Elise, well, I rather like her. I actually liked most of Sonic 06's story, even if Elise did get captured too many times, and I found the kiss scene disgusting.

(I wouldn't want to see Sonic in love with Elise, but since I don't like Amy, I chose Elise during the "test of love" mission)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But if they can't do that, then I'd rather they just cut off human interactions then. Reducing the entire species down to just Eggman does sound a bit...limiting, but I'd much rather have it that way then to have more dull, soulless characters like this guy get screentime.

180px-GUN-Commander.png

Yuck.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Way too human. If you want a better comparison, how about this:

Human X Asari

Human X Turian

Now where were the folks who complained about Sonic X Elise when Mass Effect brought these relationships with Aliens out? More than likely defending it while folks who weren't into video games were attacking Mass Effect for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Superman and the Doctor looking identical to humans was exactly why I brought them up. Non-human is non-human; appearance is irrelevant as long as the mind is there. Anyone who's fine with either of them being in a relationship with a human but has a problem with the concept of a relationship occurring between an animal character from the Sonic series (or, yes, a Turian) and a human must be objecting on the grounds of looks, basically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love human characters- Eggman is my favorite, with Nega as a close second. Liked Gerald and Maria too. The humans in Sonic Unleashed were fantastic as well. They add something to the franchise that it wouldn't have if it were just animals.

I'm going to say what I said years ago- Sonic is intended for the general public, and is no more a "furry" series than Loony Tunes was (Which if one remembers, also had plenty of human characters like Elmer Fudd, Yosemite Sam, Granny, and others). An anthropomorphic animal protagonist does not a furry series make.

That said, the animal characters are "functionally human" in Sonic's world. They live in a dominantly human society and typically blend right in to it without any significant culture clash. For all intents and purposes, the animal characters seem to have the same legal considerations and place in society as their human neighbors. No one in the series has ever treated them differently because of their species- Even Eggman wants to equally rule over animals and humans alike. So it goes without saying that I'm all for friendships and positive ties between the animals and human characters- Professor Pickle was a great example of a positive human ally, who managed to not only be helpful, but a funny and endearing character who I hope returns.

As for romance between the animal and human characters, eh... I'm honestly a little squicked out by the idea, simply because I'm human and the idea of being with a three foot tall vaguely humanoid thing covered in hair is a little gross. But whatever, man, I won't make a big deal out of it. ...As a side note, I always interpreted Shadow's and Maria's relationship as a strong friendship and nothing more. I saw no reason to read into any romantic connotations there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The hell? He was one of the better characters in ShTH.

And soulless? I mean, come on. We can go through his flaws as a character, but dull and soulless isn't one of them. Or rather that applied to damn near the whole cast in some form post-SA2 and pre-Unleashed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I don't mind some relationships in the franchise. Like, the games already referenced Blaze and Silver, Rouge flirting with Knuckles and Shadow, and of course, Amy and Sonic (though it's not so much a relationship as it is slapstick, but still). And y'know what? Unlike pretty much everything else Sonic Team touched during that time-frame, I thought these few moments of romance came out pretty good. Which is strange, given that the one romance of the series which was emphasized as a key part of the plot, which was Sonic's bestial relationship with Elise, was done horribly, even if you pretended that they were both hedgehogs or both human. However, the other ones were downplayed and came off as somewhat subtle, until it mattered most.

I get the feeling that the nods toward relationships that were good were done unintentionally....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But appearance is the primary point as to why characters like Superman and the Doctor get away with it. They're so close to being human in appearance that the fact that they came from another planet or elsewhere is thrown entirely out the window.

The point that a non-human is a non-human remains true, but you got to look at how people tend to view relationships like these as acceptable. Not that I follow that same mentality - I'm completely agree with what you said - but people tend to ignore such things out of appearance alone.

Edited by Octarine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.