Realism in the Sonic games

[Diogenes]

SA2's plot can best be described as asinine. The first half required the viewer to assume that the entirety of GUN was colorblind (Can't tell the difference between Sonic and Shadow),

I'm inclined to believe the whole bit about blaming Sonic was supposed to be a coverup. Shadow's part of a big mess that they just wanted to bury and be done with; the longer he's running around making trouble, the more likely people are to start wondering about that "accident" 50 years ago. So, they blame everything on Shadow's "good twin", people are too busy thinking about how Sonic's gone from hero to villain, and they can quietly round Shadow up behind everyone's backs. And the whole thing could just as easily dupe all the soldiers out to get Sonic; there's no reason generic low-level soldiers need to know the deep dark secrets, they just get their orders and follow them.

There's really no excuse for Amy, tho'. She's just fucking blind.

[Solid SOAP]

Sonic Unleashed got it pretty close to perfect, though a bit more whimsy would be nice and less urban cities.

[CheezSpike]

SU tried Sonic to be just cartoonish..as much as sonic games can be. It is NOT Sonic anymore. It is PIXAR!! That's what i hate, that's what i can't agree with.

So you're saying that running through loops in a large checkered area filled with rolling green hills, and navigating a large space station with a humongous moustache isn't cartoonish?

Sa/Sa2 humans also were a bit(i mean, A BIT!) cartoonish, but they weren't THAT ugly and unproportional.

They weren't cartoonish at all. The humans in SA looked like freaky stick figures, and the humans in SA2 looked like something that had been ripped out of yet another generic anime.

I thought the art style was perfect in Sonic Unleashed, enough with this overused Japanese crap.

Edited April 11, 2009 by CheezSpike

[JaidynReiman]

The only thing I disliked about Unleashed's art style was the human characters. They should've been designed like SA/SA2, or perhaps similar to Chronicles. DEFINITELY hate the human characters the way they are, though. They look horrendous in the game. Other than that, Unleashed's art is excellent.

[SuperStingray]

There's really no excuse for Amy, tho'. She's just fucking blind.

And hasn't THAT been proven time and time again.

[lounge]

There is at least one person, who thinks just like i do

I'm just glad there's one person who agrees with me.

Unrealistic, not even trying to be realistic in the slightest. Why chuck that into a world that's the total opposite?

To make the situations and stories more interesting.

Except it is. they went from "navigating Sonic through an area" to "navigate Sonic to the next boost pad" SA1 had some levels like this, but in Adventure 2, that was all you got

What navigating? You mean that tedious part in Ice Cap where you had to jump from icycle to icycle to get to the higher area. I always went thru that part as fast I could so I could get to the fun, snowboarding part. I'm sure that's how everyone thought of when they played that stage. That's what people play sonic for. The thrills. As long as it's not incredibly scripted like in sonic unleashed. Also, on the subject of SA2, after playing thru those shooting and treasure hunting stages, it was a relief to just play a cool, fast thrill ride level.

IRRELEVANT. In SA1, the other characters go through modified versions of Sonic's level, he has like ten of them.

At least the designers in SA2 had the decency to design original levels for all the characters, instead of being lazy and put the characters in the same levels. Not to mention the levels for the other characters in SA1 were short as hell (by todays standards at least. Didn't play SA1 until 2005, the DX version).

Trial and error levels

Final Rush/Chase, Sky Rail, Metal Harbor, Security Hall, Crazy Gadget, Cannon's Core, the Biolizard fight...

I'd say they lean toward more challenging than "trial and error". Sonic unleashed is trial and error (with all this stuff you have to memorize while running at 300mph). And how is Metal Harbor trial and error? That level was easy as shit, lol. Crazy Gadget's last room was trial and error, I agree with you on that.

Also part of the fun of the Biolizard fight was figuring out how the hell to beat it. Gives off that challenging and old-skool feel of hard bosses.

Keep fresh =/= make terrible.

If you don't do new stuff, the franchise would become stale. The problem is how they do with the gameplay.

So you're saying that running through loops in a large checkered area filled with rolling green hills, and navigating a large space station with a humongous moustache isn't cartoonish?

He wasn't talking about the first game. He was talking about the early 3d ones and how they uniquely merged cartoonish with realism.

[SuperStingray]

If you don't do new stuff, the franchise would become stale. The problem is how they do with the gameplay.

But the old stuff hasn't began to get stale yet. Edited April 11, 2009 by SuperStingray

[Rusty Spy]

But the old stuff hasn't began to get stale yet.

Because it's only lasted for 7 years. If it were 15, there'd be many pleads for a change in pace, and those classics wouldn't be as widely praised as they are today, rather be criticized for being repetitive and out-dated.

[Chili Dawg]

I think Unleashed had the art style down pretty much perfectly. It looks kinda real, but at the same time, you can look at it aand know it's supposed to be a cartoon type thing. But I'd prefer to see some crazier levels as opposed to just real world locations. Some realistic stuff is okay though.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Chili Dawg

[The-Master-Board]

My opinion.... I love Sonic because it was a fantasy world, thats how I am, I love things that give a feeling of something surreal, something that I wouldn't see in real life.

So it's no surprise that I would say I think Sonic is too realistic these days.

Sonic Heroes nailed it, thats what I think of Sonic when I think of him in 3D, crazy out there colours and locations and scenery iconic to Sonic of old......not grungy real life cities or locations highy based off of our own world with a small touch of stylised look added.

Thats not saying I'm all whinny about making it completely like the classics, because I don't mind seeing some human cities every now and then, and a few locations that have realism...but Sonic unleashed just pissed me off. Waaaay too much realism, plus I hate to see Sonic in our world. I know it may not be called Mobius anymore (or ever was) but that still doesn't mean they need to cheapen it by overlapping our boring world onto the Sonic series that had so much surrealism in it.

A comprimise would be fine; Sonic Unleashed could've had at least a few levels that actually felt like they were from a SONIC game, not just taken from our world, and conversely, had you running through station square or something resembling a realistic city, but not a direct rip from our world.

As far as humans go; if they have to have mass amounts of them in the game - I'd prefer them to be like they were in the Sonic Adventure games, realistic but with a hint of anime-esque to them (ie large eyes, normal proportions, not overly realistic)

Sonic Unleashed just felt stupid, the human characters looked stupid, and it didn't feel at all in the setting of Sonic in any way.

So to me its a big no to realism. I like to feel like I'm in another world when playing games, escapism I think its called, and when playing Sonic I want fantasy, not boring realism.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

A little thing I'd like to add here folks:

Earth =/= Boring.

You'd be amazed how many twists and turns you could make out of our "boring" little planet when you're talking about fiction here. We could easily make New York City into something from Majora's Mask set in year 3000 in Japan if we wanted to. And that's just for starters.

Edited April 12, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Thirsty Pocket]

Realism? It's bad but not horrible.

I think there should be a mix of surreal and realistic environments.

About Cities... ever play Mario Kart Double Dash? Check the city themed levels in that. The crazy mushroom cars and wiggler busses, the trucks with the cheep cheep sprites on the side. The stars and warp pipes... something like that but... Sonic-y.

As for the humans...

I feel anime-ish ala Sonic Adventure ( but less like plastic dolls ) is the best approach, but exadurated features are okay when needed. More examples from Mario: Peach, normal human being, Waluigi, taill exadurated features. Daisy, Normal Human being, Wario, short, fat, exadurated features again. The two can mix.

The realistic humans in Sonic 06 were MEGA fail. I didn't mind the disney approach in unleashed... and Chronicles looked like a early Cartoon Network show, wich is not good, and does not mix well with Sonic.

[SuperStingray]

Fuck reality. Why else would I be playing video games?

I mean, I'm not asking for Dali or Picasso, but if I wanted photorealistic humans, the last game I would turn to would be Sonic.

Edited April 12, 2009 by SuperStingray

[ArtFenix]

So you're saying that running through loops in a large checkered area filled with rolling green hills, and navigating a large space station with a humongous moustache isn't cartoonish?

They weren't cartoonish at all. The humans in SA looked like freaky stick figures, and the humans in SA2 looked like something that had been ripped out of yet another generic anime.

I thought the art style was perfect in Sonic Unleashed, enough with this overused Japanese crap.

I don't mind Sonic to be cartoonish a bit. I say Sonic isn't Sonic. It is Pixar. I speak about humans ONLY, not about "running through loops in a large checkered area filled with rolling green hills". Besides, Sonic IS japanese character! Why his games shouldn't looke like japanese games?

freaky stick figures

Just take a look at this. Is it better? By any means, NO.

[Blue Blood]

I don't mind Sonic to be cartoonish a bit. I say Sonic isn't Sonic. It is Pixar. I speak about humans ONLY, not about "running through loops in a large checkered area filled with rolling green hills". Besides, Sonic IS japanese character! Why his games shouldn't looke like japanese games?

Because Sonic has always had a far greater market in the US and Europe than in Japan.

Anime is anime and that's very different to what Sonic was originally and what he is now. That's what I think but it doesn't have to be unfitting at all. A fair amount of the time there's no clear Japanese style or American style in the games and it works just fine, but a subdued sense of realism actually fits the whimsical nature of what Sonic is. Whether or not it's your preference, I find it hard to understand when people say that Sonic and American animation don't mesh (I'm not saying anime is realistic here btw). His basic design as a hugely exaggerated take on something real is nothing particularly original and wasn't at the time of conception either.

Let's take the Simpsons. They're American animation with an almost non-existent sense of reality.

Pokemon's Japanese. The characters fit a standard anime look but the Pokemon themselves are, like but also unlike Sonic, animals that have spent far too long in a nuclear power station petting zoo.

Chuck either of the above into the opposite world and you get something like this:

All style is lost.

Sonic has had numerous designs over the years, most recently being taken to the highly realistic world of King Arthur. Pretty graphics? Yes, most would say so. Decent story? That's your own opinion. I feel that Sonic felt nothing short of out of place running through Titan Plain and Camelot Castle after he's spent so long in the world of Green Hill and Hang Castle. It wasn't right seeing that blue guy in somewhere that had such a flare of realism.

I'll lay down my conclusions- Sonic and co work in styles of both Western animation (golden age and modern) and anime. He doesn't seem to go too well with realism because it contrasts with the nature of what he is. I think that Western is always the way to go though if there is an influence, just because of how I like the stories to go and how I like him to appear. You're more than welcome to your own views though.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Blue Blood

[ArtFenix]

I feel that Sonic felt nothing short of out of place running through Titan Plain and Camelot Castle after he's spent so long in the world of Green Hill and Hang Castle.

Ok, but at least this is spinoff. It's a pity, that there is something unfitting in the main line.

Of, yeah, speaking about realism...What the hell the cities in SU look just like the real ones? In S06 they were original, but in SU they are absolute copies of the real cities and it is boring as hell..

Adabat looks fantastic though..

Edited April 12, 2009 by ArtFenix

[Indigo Rush]

Just take a look at this. Is it better? By any means, NO.

By every means, YES. They look like they actually belong in Sonic's world. Sonic is a cartoon, first and foremost. You need to get over this.

With the exception of Chris, those guys don't look the least bit realistic. They're freaking cartoons.

Sonic is a bloody cartoon. End of story. You may think he belongs in the real world, but your thoughts and opinions don't change fact. Putting Sonic in the real world was a failed attempt by Sega to add a touch of epicness and keep things a little down to earth for their fans, which didn't boil over too well. Not just with a majority of the fans, but visually as well. It's downright creepy.

Yeah, let me ask you, do these fit together? No, they don't.

[ArtFenix]

Humans in Sonic x were A LOT better and i don't mind them to be.

Yeah, let me ask you, do these fit together? No, they don't.

It was Shadow's game, not Sonic's.

Maybe, the plot in S06 was a bit out of place..But Elise looks nice^^.

And if sonicteam DID Shth and S06 in that serious style..it means something.

As i said i don't mind cartoonish humans. I just prefer anime style or if humans are cartoonish..All right.. But PLEASE, Not this pixarysh crap!(((

[Blue Blood]

Ok, but at least this is spin-off. It's a pity, that there is something unfitting in the main line.

Of, yeah, speaking about realism...What the hell the cities in SU look just like the real ones? In S06 they were original, but in SU they are absolute copies of the real cities and it is boring as hell..

Adabat looks fantastic though..

The cities in Unleashed were no more real than Soleanna, "Capital City" and Station Square. And I personally find them to be far less boring. Soleanna was a carbon-copy of Venice, except with far more grey and add odd variety of landscapes. Spagonia is most similar to Soleanna yet it seems to take more inspiration from San Marino when you look at the mountain range and University (not to mention that the flag is a dead give away). The main difference between them is how Spagonia tried to fit in a few more things that most of us are so used to seeing, regardless of how real they are. The aqueduct surrounding the city is unusual because of how it still has glass, is near pristine and there are several miniature versions spread throughout.

I mentioned Apotos before. We all know it's so heavily based on Mykonos, but I always feel it has a very charming and Sonicy flare. Most of that comes fro the vibrant colour it has all times of the day and the fact that it is yet again quite different to what I see in my everyday life. It also has some very charming pelicans making it seem that much more like a fantasy world. Capital City in Sonic Adventure 2 is just the standard, general look of San Francisco, whereas Empire City is different. It's heavily inspired by New York of course, but really places a focus on the look of a big city in the 50's. The golden plating on the architecture is a small thing, but really helps the city to look like it's from a fictional world when coupled with the vehicles and sheer scale of everying.

Art, I'm not getting at you, am I? This discussion is fun, but I don't want you to think I'm just taking your opinions and stamping them into the dirt.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Blue Blood

[ArtFenix]

Art, I'm not getting at you, am I? This discussion is fun, but I don't want you to think I'm just taking your opinions and stamping them into the dirt.

Thank you) I was going to think about that..) You're right.. I just don't get it when people say realism sucks and cartoonish style rullez when the whole game(SU) consists of kind of the real cities. As for me, i just HATE pixarish style of humans (and surroundings), i really don't mind neither cartoonish style, nor realistic one. I like Green hill zone, i like other cartoonish zones (in S.Heroes for example), but i also like the real stages. Something between is an ideal for me, but i hate going from one extreme to the other. Just get rid of this pixarish humans))) I can't ask for more^_^. I can't stand them..really.

Edited April 12, 2009 by ArtFenix

[Blue Blood]

You know, I'd been yearning for Pixar styled humans since they first became an actual part of the plot in SA2. 'twasn't such a big deal in SA when they were just sort of there to fill the space (though I did want them to look different), but as soon as the President, his secretary and Maria showed up in SA2 I was like "Nooooooooooooo!". Seriously, the whole way leading up to Chronicles and Unleashed all I wanted to see was the human characters. Various previews of Unleashed said they looked like they were stripped from a Pixar film, but I just had to be sure they didn't look like Miis on crack or something. Chronicles came about with non-realistic characters bearning big noses and whatnot so that was a nice little preview.

Thinking about it more, Maria could be put in game with the current art style and not look totally weird (that's not saying anything about the story though... I can only see a screw up there). I wouldn't like to see her get a redesign because she's already properly established and wasn't OMG REAL in the first place. Elise on the other hand could be made not to look Pixar like exactly, but less real. And they'd have to cut her neck down a lot. Seriously! Was she a human or a giraffe?

Edited April 12, 2009 by Blue Blood

[ArtFenix]

So.. You like Maria..so do i). It looks like we've found a compromise)) Let all the humans look like Maria xD.

[Blue Blood]

Eeerrrm, wouldn't like that. Pixar human is what a I want, though I do like it when the style is taken to the extreme in some cases. For example Eggman is an extreme on the cartoony style and he (and Nega) should be the only ones like that. His cousin should be left as the sole extreme on the other end, and possibly the commander too. I just mean that I think Maria can blend in.

EDIT: That said, if they did change the style yet again that is what I would like. Just keep away the humans that were supposed to look completely real in 2006.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Blue Blood

[ArtFenix]

I agree, despite Eggman's cool appearance in S06, he looks fine as a cartoonish character.

You know..I grew with Sonic and now i am 19 y.o.. I do want Sonic to be a bit serious, not like he was in Heroes and Unleashed. That's why i hate some things.. Sega tried Sonic to be more serious to attract an older generation of gamers..It didn't work well..Now they're trying Sonic to be far too childish.. Sa was perfect, wasn't it? Then why, WHY not to make all the games in this style? It wasn't too serious, it wasn't too childish either.

Edited April 12, 2009 by ArtFenix

[Dr. Mechano]

I agree, despite Eggman's cool appearance in S06, he looks fine as a cartoonish character.

You know..I grew with Sonic and now i am 19 y.o.. I do want Sonic to be a bit serious, not like he was in Heroes and Unleashed. That's why i hate some things.. Sega tried Sonic to be more serious to attract an older generation of gamers..It didn't work well..Now they're trying Sonic to be far too childish.. Sa was perfect, wasn't it? Then why, WHY not to make all the games in this style? It wasn't too serious, it wasn't too childish either.

Simplistic and stylized does not equal "childish."

The Mario games appeal to all ages, and they're full of short, disproportioned, cutesy characters.

Sonic Adventure was okay- Their humans weren't realistic, but were anime-styled. SA2's/Shadow's were kind of uninteresting, and 2K6's were far too realistic, I think.

I'm fine with the cartoony style of Chronicles/Unleashed, or the anime style of SA1, but attempts at actual realism don't suit this franchise. At least, I don't think so.