Realism in the Sonic games

[Blue Blood]

.Sa was perfect, wasn't it? Then why, WHY not to make all the games in this style? It wasn't too serious, it wasn't too childish either.

Main reason I believe is that Sonic Team, especially the new one that developed Unleashed, want to make Sonic great again by taking him into the future and not living in the past. They flat out went against the "returning to his roots" rubbish they kept saying for like a thousand years and said that they feel like they need a new Sonic. Fresh and mondern, you know? Unleashed looks like a development of the originals rather than a remake (Heroes) or random tangent (Sonic 06). I personally feel this is portrayed not only in looks, but gameplay mechanics and character behaviour.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Blue Blood

[AuroraRedwinters]

What I found unusual with Unleashed was when you visited the different hub worlds and were interacting with the various NPC's, there is not a single "furry" NPC to be found outside the established game characters (Amy, Tails, etc.) All the different places you go to, and they were all humans.

In fact this is a common theme in the Sonic games whenever there is an adventure field of sorts...

[Dr. Mechano]

What I found unusual with Unleashed was when you visited the different hub worlds and were interacting with the various NPC's, there is not a single "furry" NPC to be found outside the established game characters (Amy, Tails, etc.) All the different places you go to, and they were all humans.

In fact this is a common theme in the Sonic games whenever there is an adventure field of sorts...

Oddly, the inverse seems to be true in the Mario series. Almost every human in the franchise is an important playable character of some sort, with NPCs being a strange mix of other species. (There are exceptions of course, such as the masked Il Piantissimo from Super Mario Sunshine, but they're few and far between)

I don't know. I've just come to accept that humans and normal animals are larger in number than the humanized animals are. As for why that's the case, I doubt there'll ever be a plot point about it.

[Blue Blood]

What I found unusual with Unleashed was when you visited the different hub worlds and were interacting with the various NPC's, there is not a single "furry" NPC to be found outside the established game characters (Amy, Tails, etc.) All the different places you go to, and they were all humans.

In fact this is a common theme in the Sonic games whenever there is an adventure field of sorts...

I'l quote myself from earlier in the topic:

Sonic is cute and slightly chubby in Unleashed, making him look like an older version of his classic self. The humans blend with this style wonderfully. They're unrealistic with big eyes, funny movements and personalities to match. They felt like they should be there. The game could have benefited from a few other anthros wondering about that aren't established characters, but don't forget that a kid in Spagonia actually noted that seeing "A blue hedgehog, a two-tailed fox and a guy with a mohawk" was weird.

Judging from that, I'd say it must be an intentional format. There're no needless anthro characters in Sonic's world, or at least, not anymore. The Knuckles and Nocturnus tribes used to exist on Earth in great numbers but have since disappeared. Vanilla remains the only Sonic-like character to function like the NPCs around town and such. She's never shown and sort of superpower doesn't serve as a character in the plot at all (Sonic Advance 2 saw her simply as any other animal like a flicky).

Edited April 12, 2009 by Blue Blood

[Indigo Rush]

Humans in Sonic x were A LOT better and i don't mind them to be.

It was Shadow's game, not Sonic's.

As if that even matters? It's the same series. Luigi had his own game. Should he be use guns and jump on realistic mushrooms and turtles?

[SuperStingray]

As if that even matters? It's the same series. Luigi had his own game. Should he be use guns and jump on realistic mushrooms and turtles?

Actually, I think the style of Luigi's Mansion was very realistic looking.

[Blue Blood]

Actually, I think the style of Luigi's Mansion was very realistic looking.

Ditto, but for Mario Party 8. Nothing about that game looks like it's from Mario world- it's horrid. Then again, Mario has a much more set-in-stone style than Sonic.

[SuperStingray]

Ditto, but for Mario Party 8. Nothing about that game looks like it's from Mario world- it's horrid. Then again, Mario has a much more set-in-stone style than Sonic.

Really? I thought 8 was very colorful and Mario-esque.

[Blue Blood]

Really? I thought 8 was very colorful and Mario-esque.

The DK level looked the part, and so did the manor one to an extent. The train level, hotel level, beach level and most of the minigames lacked any sort fantasy highlights. The trees were realistic and very few things look like cartoons. (Plus the entire game sucks).

[lounge]

As if that even matters? It's the same series. Luigi had his own game. Should he be use guns and jump on realistic mushrooms and turtles?

Shadow could use guns because he could. He could do whatever he wants. He still has his powers. It was just for the sake of adding a twist to the gameplay.

Nobody can take the characters in Mario's franchise seriously because that's not what nintendo intended. Mario was never a cool guy. He doesn't seem to have any character development. That's why nobody cares about the story or character development in mario games. And that's why nobody cares about seeing deformed people in those games.

But people do care about sonic character development. That's why they have to make the situations interesting and all. And that's why a sense of realism helps and benefits the games, at least, that's how I feel. If you just had sonic running thru mystical worlds, doing the same shit over like stopping these eggman robots, the franchise wouldn't really be that interesting to discuss on forums.

It's all just a matter of opinion though. That's why having a mix of realism and fantasy is the way to please both groups.

Also, that maria render was ugly. I don't like the way they redesigned her in shadow's game. They made her duller. What happened to her curly, long hair, and expressive eyes? I was talking about how they should design humans based off her sa2 appearnace. See when I say design the humans so they look normal, you guys automatically think normal has to equal boring.

Also, back on to the issue you have with the GUN soldiers and how they don't fit in with sonic. If they did in fact look cartoony, and you see these disproportional soldiers shoot Maria, would anybody even take that seriously, or even feel a little sad? Nope.

They don't even look that realistic. They have helmets on their heads so you can't see their faces...... Unless you meant that GUN shouldn't have even been in the series.

[Phos]

Besides, Sonic IS japanese character! Why his games shouldn't looke like japanese games?

Because Sonic was based on a more American style. If you were to make Sonic black and white, he would fit right into a Felix the Cat cartoon.

[Diogenes]

Shadow could use guns because he could. He could do whatever he wants. He still has his powers. It was just for the sake of adding a twist to the gameplay.

If it was only for a twist to the gameplay, they could've worked with what the character already had, rather than going against his character and the tone of the series as a whole. No, the guns were added because guns are badass, in the most shallow way possible.

If you just had sonic running thru mystical worlds, doing the same shit over like stopping these eggman robots, the franchise wouldn't really be that interesting to discuss on forums.

Repeating the same thing over and over, sure. But fantasy worlds has fuck-all to do with that. Literally, there is no correlation between using mystical/fantasy/cartoony worlds and not being interesting to discuss.

Also, back on to the issue you have with the GUN soldiers and how they don't fit in with sonic. If they did in fact look cartoony, and you see these disproportional soldiers shoot Maria, would anybody even take that seriously, or even feel a little sad? Nope.

Uh, yes they would. You severely underestimate humanity's ability to empathize with nonhumans. You might want to read up on the concept of the Uncanny Valley...

[Blue Blood]

Because Sonic was based on a more American style. If you were to make Sonic black and white, he would fit right into a Felix the Cat cartoon.

I'm so glad you said that. A friend of mine drew this ages ago:

It's a golden age style Sonic that will fit the stylings of Mickey Mouse, and like you said, Felix the Cat.

EDIT: I posted the completelywrong picture, whoops. Fix'd

Edited April 12, 2009 by Blue Blood

[batson]

The reason Sonic always looked a lot more like an American cartoon character than a Japanese anime character is because Sonic's primary intended audience was American kids and teens (the Mega Drive was'nt doing to well in the states prior to Sonic's debut, and Sega needed a franchise that could change that). Which is also the reason behind his red, white and blue color scheme.

[edge.]

I think Unleashed and some of 06 were on point on realism stage wise. I gotta give it to Unleashed for Sonic blending in with the environments. But on the other hand 06 had the most realism, character-wise-ish, I mean while still retaining their designs, 06 made the characters look slightly more realistic (not according the the real world, but the Sonic world.....that sounds really weird when i say it out loud...).

[Silvereclipse]

Well SU's human characters did in fact have the Pixar style to it. I didn't hate them, but neither did I love the designs. And I know its the whole debate about saying, "Well since there's complaining about the character models then why is it that there is no complaining about Sonic himself?" Yes I know Sonic is an anthropomorphic blue hedgehog who talks and runs at the speed of sound, but that doesn't mean the whole background or theme has to fit Sonic. Its okay to experiment with different themes, but so far with the experimenting we got these results in the games. SA for example had the human characters who look like Barbie and Ken dolls where someone played dress up with them. SA2 had Maria, the president, and his secretary which I think were okay. I liked Maria's character design in SA2. It wasn't too out there or too realistic kinda in the middle. Also there are the CGI character models who if you think about it had some SU vibe to it. In StH you have the anime feel to it. Did I like Maria's whole anime crossover thing? Not so much. Her eyes were fine in CGI, but in the in-game graphics her eyes looked like bug eyes. And the Sonic 06 characters looked like a copy and paste from the Sims games. If you think about it, the Kingdom Hearts Series had the whole Final Fantasy and Disney elements having to be used at once. I think Tetsuya Nomura said he had the problem of trying to make both elements work freely with each other.

I agree if the series had both realism and fantasy that would please everyone, but there would still be complaining about why couldn't they add more realism or more fantasy. Heck some would say they should stick to one and one only. It just really comes down to the opinions of other people. So if you think that the SU's Pixar style characters and real world elements were hands down great or utter crap its you. As I said before in one of the other topics. Its your opinion and as long as you don't try and make your opinion a fact, then no one can change that.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Silvereclipse

[Cany the hedge]

Well SU's human characters did in fact have the Pixar style to it. I didn't hate them, but neither did I love the designs. And I know its the whole debate about saying, "Well since there's complaining about the character models then why is it that there is no complaining about Sonic himself?" Yes I know Sonic is an anthropomorphic blue hedgehog who talks and runs at the speed of sound, but that doesn't mean the whole background or theme has to fit Sonic. Its okay to experiment with different themes, but so far with the experimenting we got these results in the games. SA for example had the human characters who look like Barbie and Ken dolls where someone played dress up with them. SA2 had Maria, the president, and his secretary which I think were okay. I liked Maria's character design in SA2. It wasn't to out there or too realistic kinda in the middle. Also there are the CGI character models who if you think about it had some SU vibe to it. In StH you have the anime feel to it. Did I like Maria's whole anime crossover thing? Not so much. Her eyes were fine in CGI, but in the in-game graphics her eyes looked like bug eyes. And the Sonic 06 characters looked like a copy and paste from the Sims games. If you think about it, the Kingdom Hearts Series had the whole Final Fantasy and Disney elements having to be used at once. I think Tetsuya Nomura said he had the problem of trying to make both elements work freely with each other.

I agree if the series had both realism and fantasy that would please everyone, but there would still be complaining about why couldn't they add more realism or more fantasy. Heck some would say they should stick to one and one only. It just really comes down to the opinions of other people. So if you think that the SU's Pixar style characters and real world elements were hands down great or utter crap its you. As I said before in one of the other topics. Its your opinion and as long as you don't try and make your opinion a fact, then no one can change that.

I agree with this, people shouldn´t pass their opinions as facts, and I really doubt this topic will change the way Sonic Team makes the humans on the games...

[AdventChild]

I would prefer the realism from the SA1&2 games and the anime-ish type humans for most Sonic games. Unleashed humans looked like they stepped off the Pixar wagon and a bit cartoonish though like the look of levels in that game. 06 humans were a bit too realistic yet has pretty levels to look at. So I prefer the in between look of cartoonish with a mix of realism that is found in SA1&2.

Though would like realism to be a bit less in Sonic games.

[batson]

I could stand certain characters in Unleashed, but Professor Pickle among others just looked TO cartoony, way more so than any character in a pixar movie. He looked more like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

[Dr. Mechano]

I could stand certain characters in Unleashed, but Professor Pickle among others just looked TO cartoony, way more so than any character in a pixar movie. He looked more like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

And Sonic himself doesn't?

[JaidynReiman]

The anthro characters are fine the way they look. That's how they -always- look, anyway. Trying to fit humans to make them more like the anthros simply does -not- work, and I absolutely hate the human design in this game. Sonic '06 may have been a little overly realistic, but it definitely wasn't necessary. This is off the deep end, though. Eggman doesn't look like these humans, and he fits in well with the human design from the Adventure's, and Chronicles. Chronicles in more cartoony than the Adventure's, but it isn't "off-the-deep-end" cartoony, like how SA2 is a little more realistic, but it isn't "off-the-deep-end" like Sonic '06. 06's humans are still far better than Unleashed's humans, though.

On another note, I'd have to say that Professor Pickle is the single exception. I didn't mind his design too much. But I definitely don't want to see this human art style ever again. The art style of the scenery itself is fine, though. I don't mind that at all.

[Rusty Spy]

A bit off topic, but I've already excepted that I myself can not see Eggman fitting in with any of the humans from any of the games using any kind of design. His design is just too 'out there' for him to blend in with anybody except for possibly Prof. Pickle, but even that's a stretch, if not for his outrageous eyebrows.

[Dr. Mechano]

A bit off topic, but I've already excepted that I myself can not see Eggman fitting in with any of the humans from any of the games using any kind of design. His design is just too 'out there' for him to blend in with anybody except for possibly Prof. Pickle, but even that's a stretch, if not for his outrageous eyebrows.

Yet his family(What we've seen of it) was presented with realistic proportions.

It raises a lot of questions about Eggman's unusual appearance. Well, I guess the only thing truly unrealistic about his appearance are his arms and legs, which simply don't mesh with his bulky body. His head and even his comically-oversized mustache aren't inherently unrealistic, as 'staches like that(and even bigger) have been grown in real life.

[Blue Blood]

Yet his family(What we've seen of it) was presented with realistic proportions.

It raises a lot of questions about Eggman's unusual appearance. Well, I guess the only thing truly unrealistic about his appearance are his arms and legs, which simply don't mesh with his bulky body. His head and even his comically-oversized mustache aren't inherently unrealistic, as 'staches like that(and even bigger) have been grown in real life.

Either way, it's still that sort of stache that would wouldn't see everyday. Plus he's earless.

[Dr. Mechano]

Either way, it's still that sort of stache that would wouldn't see everyday. Plus he's earless.

I think his mustache obscures his ears usually. At some angles, we can see he does have ears.

Such as in these where they're quite visible.

Edited April 13, 2009 by El Gran Gordo