Realism in the Sonic games

[Blue Blood]

I think his mustache obscures his ears usually. At some angles, we can see he does have ears.

PICTURE

PICTURE

Such as in these where they're quite visible.

Meant to say in the the old design. My Bad.

[Phos]

He had ears in Sonic CD.

[midori]

Meh. I prefer semi-realism. Unleashed went a lot too far with the cartoonism... it's just embarassing. How about Eggman, he's slightly unrealistic majorly because he has thin legs compared to his egg-shaped body, but otherwise he is quite realistic.

The same goes for prof. Gerald and Maria. They weren't 100% realistic but they weren't childish either. As I stated before, Unleashed went too far. Sonic 06 was too realistic in opposition.

As long as SA style is maintained, I'll be very happy.

[Solid SOAP]

Robotnik isn't realistic at all, all of his proportions are fucked up. If anyone looked like him in real life they'd fall over.

Also, how did Unleashed go too far? The game's levels were REAL WORLD LOCATIONS. If anything it was TOO realistic.

[ovarloard]

I think it was the humans that were too unrealistic, not the levels.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Also, how did Unleashed go too far? The game's levels were REAL WORLD LOCATIONS. If anything it was TOO realistic.

They're about as realistic as Kingdom Hearts art style or Sly Cooper's take on the real life. Real World inspired, but altered to fit the character without being awkward. You could take out the humans out of the levels and it still wouldn't make Sonic look out of place unlike most of Sonic 06, and they're practically the same as Sonic Heroes in appearance.

[Solid SOAP]

They looked pretty real too me. They were all pretty much blue skies, but bar some levels like Dragon Road and Eggmanland, they were near identical to their real world locations in terms of aestetics.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

They looked pretty real too me. They were all pretty much blue skies, but bar some levels like Dragon Road and Eggmanland, they were near identical to their real world locations in terms of aestetics.

Yeah, that was kinda the point when they're inspired by real world locations. They're going to look practically the same, but altered in some way in order to fit Sonic. Pixar-style of Unleashed isn't exactly realistic in the same sense as you would find in a game that actually tries to be real.

Also, what does having blue skies matter to the realism?

Edited April 13, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Stephen]

Im just throwig this out there but I liked the humans in unleashed

They looked pretty real too me. They were all pretty much blue skies, but bar some levels like Dragon Road and Eggmanland, they were near identical to their real world locations in terms of aestetics.

kk A little of topic here but is ur username named after soapshoes by any chance?

[Solid SOAP]

Yeah, that was kinda the point when they're inspired by real world locations. They're going to look practically the same, but altered in some way in order to fit Sonic. Pixar-style of Unleashed isn't exactly realistic in the same sense as you would find in a game that actually tries to be real.

Also, what does having blue skies matter to the realism?

True, and by blue skies I meant that instead of having the game feature drab levels with cloudy skies like Sonic '06, pretty much every day level was clear, blue skies, to keep a happy motif going.

kk A little of topic here but is ur username named after soapshoes by any chance?

Nope, it's an anagram of Solid Snake and Snakes on a Plane, meant to be read as Solid Snake's on a Plane.

[Phos]

I find myself not liking the style they used on the humans in Unleashed. I'm kind of switching sides here. Only kind of, I was never behind the style 100%, but now I simply don't like them.

I was looking at the concept art again, and I found myself unable to mentally connect the characters with Sonic. I don't know if it's because I've been following the Nostalgia Critic since the last time I though about it (and thus have been seeing a lot more different animation styles), but I found myself unable to mentally connect the characters with Sonic. I felt like I was looking at concept art for a Pixar movie. Maybe all it took was for Sonic to not be on the screen, and for me to be thinking about it. \

Pixar depict features in the same way as whoever designed these guys, or at least some of them. The Hot Dog vendors look straight out of Wall-e and most of the kids look straight out of Toy Story. The people from Spagonia look like they came from "The Iron Giant", people from Atopos look like they come from Popeye the Sailorman, People from Holaska seem to come from that one Adam Sandler animated movie, and I know Ive seen a splitting image of the people from Chun Nan. Had the game included a Belgium or France expy, I'm certain there'd be a splitting image of Tin-Tin kicking about.

Surprisingly, I find the worst offender to be Chip (even though he isn't a human), he could be the scrappy from pretty much any animated movie. I thought he was going to be a character exclusive to that one Manga when I first saw him because of how massivly he clashed with the style.

Perhaps normal humans shouldn't show up in Sonic games simply because the visual style simply can't account for them.

A funny thing happened though: When I went back to the dashboard, I noticed that the Avatars somewhat match Sonic's style. The proportions, the limbs, the minimalist shading, even the way they're ears look mostly seem to fit, but it's not a "drop in" fit.

Somewhat more specifically, the Ears look exactly like how Robotnik's did in Sonic CD. They're exaggerated noses are also reminiscent of what you see in Sonic, but not enough to make Robotnik's seem any less special (Snivly, I'm looking at you). The avatar's eyes seem to handle one of the biggest hurdles with flying colors. Sonic's eye/eyes are bizarre if you think about them too much, and the avatars neatly side step this problem by not having sclera. The avatar's mouths are where the style diverge.

Also, what does having blue skies matter to the realism?

http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue...n-launched.html

[mark]

I thought the world of Unleashed was perfect. But am I the only one who loved Sonic's SADX, SA2 and S'06 models? Anyway..

Unleashed hit the line perfect imo.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue...n-launched.html

As much as you may think it so, that doesn't answer my question in the slightest on the realism. It's more so on tone than anything else, and real life mind you is not brown and grey, nor is it always about gangs on the streets.

[Phos]

Thanks to UK Resistance, "Blue Skies" usually refers to a design philosophy of ignoring reality in favor of whatever bizarre visual style the level artists can come up with. This usually means saturated colors and impractically laid out cities, with features such as giant buildings that you get on top of via a giant spring or something.

[Sean]

That looks as daft and retarded as the "real is brown" argument.

Then again that's probably (hopefully) the point.

[The Adventurer]

Thanks to UK Resistance, "Blue Skies" usually refers to a design philosophy of ignoring reality in favor of whatever bizarre visual style the level artists can come up with. This usually means saturated colors and impractically laid out cities, with features such as giant buildings that you get on top of via a giant spring or something.

Giant spring? Sounds right up sonic's alley.

Speaking for myself, I think Sonic looks and plays best in a realistic setting, but keep in mind that there is such a thing as TOO realistic. By the same token, there's such a thing as too cartoony. I want to see Sonic go up walls and defying gravity. I don't want to see him get hit on the head with an anvil.

But really, the amount of realism is secondary to the gameplay.

[Phos]

I think people are overemphasizing cartoony vs. realistic...

I think Sonic needs a dose of the surreal, like he had before.

[SykoTech]

I've sorta lost my love for extreme surreal environments. Seeing names and faces Sonic, Tails, or Blaze plastered all over the place in those Night Carnival/Casino levels was nice in a "SEGA Carnival" sort of way, but it didn't do much for me as an actual location. Overly done surreal levels tend to concentrate too much on a gimmick for me as well. I'm looking at you BINGO Highway and Wacky Workbench.

However, the opposite extreme isn't favorable either. As much as I like Unleashed, it concentrated a bit too much on realism to allow for any significant platform gimmicks or locations.

I like the way Sonic Rush Adventure handled things. The locales used stable themes that weren't ran by gimmicks, but there were still things like giant mushrooms in Plant Kingdom and half-pipe ice slopes in Blizzard Peaks.

On the subject of humans, I honestly don't enjoy seeing them so much. Regardless of how they are stylized, I hate how they seem to populate Sonic's entire world leaving the only anthros the guys that are connected to Sonic or the smaller anthros that get shoved into robots. And since the latter doesn't seem to exist anymore, that leaves Sonic & friends. It makes them look like a bunch of freaks.

This of course brings me back to SRA. Finally, other antros that existed at present day (unlike the Echidnas) and not just the small ones from old Sonic games. They weren't just in one place either. The "Coconut Crew" were all over the place, Blizzard Peaks was habitated by polar bears (well, I suppose there could have been others we didn't se like penguins), and I'm pretty sure the ancient civilaztions of Sky Babylon and Pirates' Island were most like populated by anthros because I can't really picture humans in the Sonic universe on sky contients using ancient languages. Blaze's royal guard was also a koala, suggesting that her entire kingdom might consist of anthros.

As I said earlier, I don't hate humans. But having them everywhere makes the Sonic characters seem very distant. They should at least have a decent mix of anthros and humans, cartoony humans of course. Like the Animanics or Looney Tunes way of doing things.

[Mandyrobin]

I personally loved the models in SA and SA2. I didn't mind the models in SU, only I thought the humans were a little too cartoony. Don't get me wrong, I understand that it's meant to be cartoony. I just thought the human models were a little too overdone in that game. I thought the way it was handled in SA and SA2 was the best. Just update the graphics accordingly and that would be enough to make me happy.

I do think the environments themselves should have enough realism to balance out the cartoonish appearance of the characters living in them. This is another thing I though the Adventure games did quite well.

[Indigo Rush]

I really think the style used in Unleashed fits perfectly in the Sonic universe. Some designs can do without excessive exaggeration, but even then, it's not a bad thing. Look at Eggman. Tell me how it's possible for him to stand up.

[Mandyrobin]

I really think the style used in Unleashed fits perfectly in the Sonic universe. Some designs can do without excessive exaggeration, but even then, it's not a bad thing. Look at Eggman. Tell me how it's possible for him to stand up.

I agree. If the cartoon-like style wasn't too overdone for the humans, the style would be a good match. As for Eggman ... well ... he doesn't count.

[Dr. Mechano]

I agree. If the cartoon-like style wasn't too overdone for the humans, the style would be a good match. As for Eggman ... well ... he doesn't count.

Why?

People keep saying Eggman doesn't count whenever they talk about humans in the Sonic franchise. Whether it's their appearance, their role in the plot, etc., they have this mentality that Eggman is somehow not human. And it's a mentality I'll never understand- The man is clearly human, and the most prominent one in the series. It stands to reason that he's relevant to human discussion because of that.

[Mollfie]

Eggman is human. Look at him. A human, a rather odd looking chap, but still a homosapien.

[Mandyrobin]

Why?

People keep saying Eggman doesn't count whenever they talk about humans in the Sonic franchise. Whether it's their appearance, their role in the plot, etc., they have this mentality that Eggman is somehow not human. And it's a mentality I'll never understand- The man is clearly human, and the most prominent one in the series. It stands to reason that he's relevant to human discussion because of that.

I was just kidding around. I did not mean to say Eggman wasn't human or unimportant to the discussion and I have great respect for the character. From what I've seen, Eggman is pretty much the only human character so far that doesn't look out of place no matter for cartoony the style may be. Heck, he didn't even look out of place in Sonic '06. Different, yes, but he still fit in.

[SuperStingray]

Here's how I think reality should work in a Sonic game: in doses. The Rule of Cool is essentially what makes tone work in Sonic games; one of the aspects of the early Sonic games that made them so enjoyable is that reality inspired the environments, but it didn't restrict them to a plausible plot. How did Sonic get straight from a construction site to underwater ruins? What is a large carnival-themed city doing built on Angel Island? How is Sonic breathing in space? Suddenly, none of that matters because all of the individual zones are so diverse and enjoyable.

One of the problems I see in the modern games is an overly heavy reliance on plot for a story. The way I see it, the foundation of storyline in the Sonic series should be characterization. When they try to throw in a heavy plot, it draws more focus to that and all suspension of disbelief is lost and suddenly, plot holes matter and level diversity and uniqueness fades away. Let's be frank- if SA2's plot had the same integrity and importance as that of the early titles, would you have even cared if half of the moon was missing in the next game? Or that the world map was different in Shadow from Unleashed?

Honestly, I think it's a good thing that the actual planet Sonic lives on has minimal background or consistency. If it was emphasized that Sonic's world is Earth, or at least our Earth, all level design would be restricted to locations like our own. And I doubt any one, or at least almost any one, plays Sonic games for realism.

I don't think it's a problem that Sonic games have humans as long as their presence doesn't have to hold back the diversity or surreal properties of the world. And I think it's even better when they use Unleashed's style because that colorful and unrealistic range of people prevents Sonic from falling too close to the confines of reality.

Edited April 18, 2009 by SuperStingray