Which criticisms towards the series do you disagree with?

[DarkLight]

Can't say I agree. I was quite unhappy when they switched to the 4kids actors. I think when a character is important to someone, they want them to stay the way they are to an extent and the voice is part of that. Imagine if Mario would get a new voice. I'm sure that would piss quite a few off, me included.

It's just a fictional character at the end of the day, but whatever floats yer' boat.

[ChikaBoing]

To be fair the Speed levels in SA2 weren't that high in quality anyway. They were (extremely) linear, but they were fun because of the added obstacles and "tricks" you can do, and they were particularly perfect to make speedruns out of. Personally speaking the shooting levels were half 'n half. Tails' were crap but Eggman's were well-made. Treasure Hunting I just felt was wasted potential for similar reasons you stated but that could've been easily fixed if they added variety beyond the "find the missing shards with the radar" to each level, such as adding obstacles and speed-like areas to transfer from one area to the next. Death Chamber is a great example of this.

EDIT: Though, I disagree with SA2 having the worst alternate gameplay usage. That easily goes to Sonic 06. The Amigo system was downright terrible, and there's no way to avoid it, even when you're looking to play as a specific character.

The only Shooting stage that I thought was any good, was Cosmic Wall IMO...

BTW I'm not talking about the quality of alternate gameplay styles necesairly, but about implementation. The Amigo system wasn't bad IMO, it' just the games engine was unfinished and sucked any potential of having the characters fun to play as . Adventure 2 was pretty much finished and complete but the actual implementation is inherently flawed.

Edited February 7, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[HeroMystic]

BTW I'm not talking about the quality of alternate gameplay styles necesairly, but about implementation. The Amigo system wasn't bad IMO, it' just the games engine was unfinished and sucked any potential of having the characters fun to play as . Adventure 2 was pretty much finished and complete but the actual implementation is inherently flawed.

Yeah after re-reading your first post I misunderstood what you meant. I somewhat agree with you in that case. Sonic '06's transitions from character to character was pretty seamless compared to SA2, but it wasn't all that bad when it didn't feel random (Knuckles' first few stages were quite random). To be more specific, the Pyramid Base arc where Tails blasted his way inside the base, then Sonic sped to the core of the base, then Knuckles found the keys to get inside the core was pretty well-thought out. Same can be said about Team Dark's attack on Prison Island.

[Gotta Go Rational]

Criticisms that annoy me include :

Sonic shouldn't have serious/deep storylines.

Sonic should be mute.

New characters are stupid/not Sonic and dilute the franchise.

The idea that "People (only) play Sonic games to run hella fast".

Alternate gameplay styles to "running hella fast" are 'gimmicks'.

I'll repost some stuff I wrote in a previous thread.

With regard to the suggestion that Sonic shouldn't have much of a storyline, and shouldn't speak as much (or even become mute)

One of the main appealing points about the Sonic series for me, is that I enjoy the character and universe of Sonic. I enjoy having these (sometimes) epic adventures alongside him. I like to see the world, stories and characters evolve as the series goes on, rather than regress back to simplicity.

This is one of the main reasons as to why I like Sonic much more than Mario. Mario is practically mute. To me, so much of someone's personality and character is expressed through what they say, and how they say it, and that to me is what makes me unable to connect with Mario in a way that I can connect with a character like Sonic. Yes, Mario fans will argue that it's Mario's movements, occasional yelps and facial expressions that express his character, but it can only be done in a very limited way, and when Mario's only reaction to someone speaking to him is to stare back at them, it makes it a little difficult to get the feel of his personality. I've heard game developers say that the reason they sometimes have protaganists speak rarely (or not at all) is because they want the player to feel like they are the protaganist and they can inject their own personality into the character. Personally, I'd take getting to know the character over pretending I am the character anyday.

Some fans declare that "People" (I assume this means the non-descript masses) don't play Sonic for the story or characterization, they just play it to run fast. I don't. I've even enjoyed the variation of gameplay that the series has offered over the years. I also don't enjoy playing it singularly (or perhaps even primarily) for the gameplay.

I love the Universe, and would like Sonic to be more than just a spiky blue casket that I can use to move fast.

[Vulpine]

I wish everyone would get along. I wish people were happy instead of angry. I wish people were open-minded instead of being immature and cry like 1-year old babies. It is really sad to see, because the Sonic fandom has become a warzone because of the whole Classic vs. Modern vs. SatAM vs. Archie vs. SEGASonic nerd rage.

I mean, whatever happened to Sonic fans just having fun when playing their favorite games or discussing about them?

I definitely cannot stand it when people hate Sonic 2006. I mean, come on. Why does this game deserve all the hate when it still has good points despite what haters say? Sure, you may not like the glitches, bugs, loading times and control problems, but deep underneath those flaws are all the good stuff. Heck, there are many licensed games and other poor games that are more poor quality then this. From what I have seen, E.T. for the Atari 2600 is the worst quality game ever made, not Sonic 2006. While it’s nice to point out flaws in a game, you shouldn’t be so mean about it, because it will make you look nothing but a heartless moron. Besides, you should be happy because SEGA has learned from their mistakes and are actually making better games then what they used to. If that makes you feel better I also like the other Sonic games, too, including your beloved classic games that we all grew up with. Don't be upset with me for liking this game. Because unlike many other Sonic fans, I know what the series is all about, and I also know how to respect games and accept them who they are. I’m not weird nor insane for liking Sonic 2006, people. It is my opinion and I actually know how to think, instead of doing nothing but be negative, throw tantrums and write endless drama about it like everyone else. Haters are going to hate no matter what, and the best thing I can do is to ignore them.

If that is not enough, here are more criticisms or opinions that also irritate me:

The recent Sonic games suck!

SatAM is better then all the games!

The gameplay in the recent games is terrible!

Sonic 4 sucks because they used the green-eyed Sonic 2006 design for Sonic instead of the classic design!

No! Sonic has green eyes and he looks the same he did in recent games! I want the old classic design back!

Sonic must look like a poorly-drawn 1920's cartoon character!

Sonic should be in a crossover with Kingdom Hearts! (Um, I think not)

Tails/Cream is canon, deal with it!

Knuckles/Rouge is canon, Shadow/Rouge isn't!

Sonic should unite with all the cartoon stars that I grew up with!

All the Sonic TV shows should join the Disney Afternoon lineup!

SatAM has the best VAs and better then the rest!

SatAM character designs are better then what you see in the games, especially all the recent games!

Bring back the SatAM voice cast to reprise the roles of Sonic/Tails/Robotnik/whoever is from the games!

SatAM is better then every other Sonic anime/TV show!

Disney should buy the rights to Sonic! They should make a Sonic movie!

All the other SEGA franchises are forgotten because everyone loves Sonic better!

Sonic is a casual game, not hardcore!

I miss my nostalgic feeling!

Waahhh! Waahhh! Ohboohoohoohoo! Sniff!

Oh geez, people. Stop whining already! And to be honest, nobody cares. It is better to accept the Sonic series the way it is instead of trying to change it to something it's not. People complain about silly things no matter what, and I wish they would have happy thoughts rather then being so angry over the look of a fictional blue hedgehog. Sonic is still Sonic, no matter the design. Then again, why the heck is the old designs so important to you? It may be because you’re a bunch of nostalgia nerds, but there are no problems with new designs, people (Besides, they’re easy to accept and I have gotten used to new designs and changes since Sonic and company looked this way back in the Sonic Adventure days).

Also, I don't hate SatAM (I actually like it as much as the other Sonic shows), don't get me wrong, but it gets too much praise and attention then it should deserve and it's like no one cares about all the other Sonic shows anymore. I'm also sick and tired of people thinking that SatAM is better then the games when the fact that it's not canon to the games' story and it's just an animated TV show adaption of a video game franchise and nothing more. I know people have their opinions, but still. I'm sick of nostalgic whiners moaning all the time and I wish they would accept changes and what the Sonic franchise is.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Vulpine

[batson]

Disney should buy the rights to Sonic! They should make a Sonic movie!

If you dont mind me asking, why do you keep brining up the idea that there are loads of fans who for some reason wants Sonic to be bought by Disney? Im pretty sure there aren't.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Disney should buy the rights to Sonic! They should make a Sonic movie!

Dude, seriously. Where the fuck are you pulling that shit from? Because you say this a lot, and hardly anywhere on the interwebz can I scour around and find what you claim people are saying.

The only widespread saying about a company buy rights to Sonic would be "Nintendo should buy the rights to Sonic and make a better game".

[HeroMystic]

If you dont mind me asking, why do you keep brining up the idea that there are loads of fans who for some reason wants Sonic to be bought by Disney? Im pretty sure there aren't.

I remember on the SEGA of America boards a few years back someone made a troll thread that Disney should buy out Sonic, and many people joined in for the joke. I believe it was around the time when Sonic '06 came out. Obviously, no one was serious about it.

Knuckles/Rouge is canon, Shadow/Rouge isn't!

Neither are "canon" actually. Just up for interpretation.

[Ferno]

Sonic should be in a crossover with Kingdom Hearts! (Um, I think not)

All the Sonic TV shows should join the Disney Afternoon lineup!

Disney should buy the rights to Sonic! They should make a Sonic movie!

I wish people were open-minded [about other franchises] instead of being immature and cry like 1-year old babies

[Tornado]

Sonic TV shows should join the Disney afternoon lineup.

Mario, Luigi and Yoshi trek across ice and snow to stop the shelled ones' schemes. But Bowser's slick; in one last trick, he takes the dearest thing of all. Now Tornado is Missing!!

[Indigo Rush]

If that is not enough, here are more criticisms or opinions that also irritate me:

The recent Sonic games suck!

SatAM is better then all the games!

The gameplay in the recent games is terrible!

Sonic 4 sucks because they used the green-eyed Sonic 2006 design for Sonic instead of the classic design!

No! Sonic has green eyes and he looks the same he did in recent games! I want the old classic design back!

Sonic must look like a poorly-drawn 1920's cartoon character!

Sonic should be in a crossover with Kingdom Hearts! (Um, I think not)

Tails/Cream is canon, deal with it!

Knuckles/Rouge is canon, Shadow/Rouge isn't!

Sonic should unite with all the cartoon stars that I grew up with!

All the Sonic TV shows should join the Disney Afternoon lineup!

SatAM has the best VAs and better then the rest!

SatAM character designs are better then what you see in the games, especially all the recent games!

Bring back the SatAM voice cast to reprise the roles of Sonic/Tails/Robotnik/whoever is from the games!

SatAM is better then every other Sonic anime/TV show!

Disney should buy the rights to Sonic! They should make a Sonic movie!

All the other SEGA franchises are forgotten because everyone loves Sonic better!

Sonic is a casual game, not hardcore!

I miss my nostalgic feeling!

Waahhh! Waahhh! Ohboohoohoohoo! Sniff!

These are ridiculous! What kind of people do you hang around with, anyway? Stay off the SEGA boards, seriously.

And, ya know, for a post that's supposedly against intolerant fans, I'd have to say that your post is the MOST intolerant in the entire thread. Congratulations! You have created a double standard. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[ChikaBoing]

The people on the SEGA boards are just joking, mostly. At least with the Disney stuff.

Edited February 9, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Marcello]

I disagree that the sword gimmick in BK was a terrible concept. If the game had better controls, I think it would've worked fantastically.

Sonic should be in a crossover with Kingdom Hearts! (Um, I think not)

All the Sonic TV shows should join the Disney Afternoon lineup!

Disney should buy the rights to Sonic! They should make a Sonic movie!

This isn't criticism. Though I'm sure you had no other way to express your hate for Kingdom Hearts and Disney in this post.

Edited February 9, 2011 by marcellof

[ChikaBoing]

I disagree with people who think Treasure Hunting has more to do with Sonic then the Werehog Levels.

[batson]

Sonic must look like a poorly-drawn 1920's cartoon character!

Okay, dude, i know that several people (including myself) have already criticized a lot of what you said in the post from which the above quote comes from, but i really feel the need to single that one part out. I just have to ask, are you calling some cartoon or artwork-specific version of Sonic a "poorly drawn 1920's cartoon character", or classic Sonic in general? Cause if it's the latter i really cant believe you when you say that you like both modern and classic Sonic.

And i have to say, in general, it seems to me like when you say things like "people shouldn't complain about Sonic" what you are really saying is "people shouldn't complain about the modern interpretations of Sonic", while you yourself obviously isn't to fond of the classic version.

Edited February 9, 2011 by batson

[Vulpine]

I am serious, if some greedy corporate media giant such as Disney buys the Sonic franchise then I won't be pleased. It would be a nightmare if that happens, and I hope it doesn't become a reality.

As for the cartoon or artwork-specific versions of Sonic you're talking about, I've seen fan artists on the Internet draw Sonic in the old 1920's cartoon style, and that doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, come on, even little children can draw better then that. Besides, why do people have such a problem with SEGA's version of Sonic? I don't, because I accept Sonic the Hedgehog as who he is: A video game mascot that is the property of SEGA. Nothing more then that.

[DarkLight]

Who said anything about Disney?

[sonfan1984]

Who said anything about Disney?

He constantly brings up his hate of Disney and Kingdom Hearts even when the discussion has nothing to do about it.

[Aquaslash]

I disagree with the "too many characters" complaint. Especially when Sonic has hardly any, at leas not compared to Transformers, which has a nigh infinite cast.

[Vertekins]

I disagree with the "too many characters" complaint. Especially when Sonic has hardly any, at leas not compared to Transformers, which has a nigh infinite cast.

Shall we also mention Mario? The entire cast of characters in that series from RPG's to the Platformers to the Sports games likely outnumbers Sonic's main games cast by 3 times over if not more.

I do not understand the opposition to the amount of characters especially when each character brings something distinctive to the table both in character and ability. It's especially telling of the female cast; Each and every one of them has something that makes them unique. Amy's ditziness and hammer, Cream's sweetness and Chao attack, Rouge's independence and treasure seeking ability, Wave's bitchiness and mechanic ability, Blaze's insecurity and will and pyrokinesis as well as Burning Form, Marine's airheadedness and hyperactivity and mysterious power, Shade's strength and reliability and Tikal's calmness and pacifistic tendencies as well as her ability to talk to Chaos.

The boys also have their uniqueness. Even if Mighty is practically a carbon copy of Sonic his character is still interesting because it's like a gentler attitude with a more organized way of going about things such as travelling compared to Sonic.

[Chaos Rush]

The "too many characters" I strongly disagree with. I'm tired of playing as only Sonic. All I want is Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, no more, no less. I hate it when I read things criticizing how early on they added characters, and quite frankly, I think Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the best platformer of all time. And it has 3 characters.

And really, the only Sonic game where you could argue that had too many characters is Adventure, and I guess 06 (even though I've never played it). Meanwhile, Adventure 2 pretty much has 3 characters, and I consider Heroes as having only 3 characters as well. How did that complaint even originate?

[Chaosmaster8753]

Well, this has gotten a bit interesting... Anyway, a few things:

- I'd apply this to just about any fanbase, but I kinda hate it when people think that just because we like something post-Genesis Sonic that we're delusional or something. Maybe it's just me, but I really can't stand people putting down others just for having different views from them.

- I must say, Yahtzee's kinda pathetic for picking on Colors just for having cutscenes you can apparently skip. This is yet another nitpick that's technically been in the series ever since 3 & Knuckles.

[Ferno]

Kingdom Hartz.

KINGDOM HARTS EVURWHUUUR!

[sonfan1984]

- I must say, Yahtzee's kinda pathetic for picking on Colors just for having cutscenes you can apparently skip. This is yet another nitpick that's technically been in the series ever since 3 & Knuckles.

Well in that case I don't really give a damn if he ever reviews Sonic Colors or not (or maybe he did review it. I dunno, I haven't been to the Colors board in a while) cause it's not like you're being forced to watch the cutscenes if you have a huge problem with them. That's why there's a skip button.

Edited February 10, 2011 by sonfan1984

[Indigo Rush]

I am serious, if some greedy corporate media giant such as Disney buys the Sonic franchise then I won't be pleased. It would be a nightmare if that happens, and I hope it doesn't become a reality.

As if SEGA isn't milking Sonic to death? It's happened already, dude. We get, like, 3-4 Sonic games per year. Nintendo would probably handle Sonic better if they were given the rights to Sonic. Now, I don't know why you think Disney would consider buying out the Sonic brand, Disney is primarily concerned with films and, well, Mickey Mouse branding. You just have an unwarranted hate for Disney and quite frankly you shoving it into every post possible with a crowbar is starting to tick everyone off.

As for the cartoon or artwork-specific versions of Sonic you're talking about, I've seen fan artists on the Internet draw Sonic in the old 1920's cartoon style, and that doesn't make any sense to me.

If you think that's an issue, let me introduce you to Sonic Passion. It's the friggin Internet, dude. Get over it. People have a right to draw Sonic in any style they want. How is this a problem? I've drawn Sonic in 1920s Disney fashion, and I won a DS game for it. Bite me.

I mean, come on, even little children can draw better then that.

The style in which a person draws is not the same as their skill. Your argument is flawed from the start. And for your information, 1920's black and white cartoons have far more depth to them than you give them- oh wait, it's Disney. I'm sorry, I forgot about your little condition. My mistake.

Besides, why do people have such a problem with SEGA's version of Sonic? I don't, because I accept Sonic the Hedgehog as who he is: A video game mascot that is the property of SEGA. Nothing more then that.

First off, it's spelled "than." Secondly, you just expressed your fears of Sonic being in the hands of a greedy corporate giant. Hi, let me introduce you to the SEGA Corporation. And Sonic is not just a video game mascot, he's a brand. He's a franchise that encompasses not only interactive entertainment, but forms of graphic novels, action figures and toys, plush dolls, television programs, and has even been featured in albums that weren't related to the games in any form, aside from the fact that Sonic's face is on it.

Is that Sonic and American Pie? On the same album? You better believe it!

Sonic is a milked-to-death franchise and that's how it is.

Sonic is a franchise that's adored by children, teenagers and adults worldwide, and they can draw him in any way they want.

Sonic is not going to go into the hands of a film corporation.

And last question, what the heck has Disney ever done to you to make you think they were even considering buying out the Sonic franchise?

Also:

Sonic was on Toon Disney. I guess that's where the series went wrong, eh?